Studio lights and lightmeter

good morning, I have a couple of issues I was hoping you could help me with.

1) i have a canon 70d that I am using a hotshoe to connect to one strobe (with the provided cable) and then use a soft box (or vice Versa) as a slave. Old CY300 strobe lights. I can't seem to get this to work. The only way I am managing to fire the main lights is if I use my speed light and get that to trigger the other two lights. My strobes are older so not sure if that is the issue? I don't really like to use my speed light to trigger them.

2) if I keep it as above, having to use the speed light to trigger, I can't seem to get the 550ex to work off camera. I've followed you tube videos and the manual. Help! So I seem to be stuck with it on camera, which I've been diffusing and bouncing off the ceiling. But it takes away from my 90 /45 degree lighting that I want.

3) using the set up above (speed light on camera) 2 lights as a slave, my light meter sekonic l308 I think only lets me shoot at f8 which I hate. Any idea on being able to manipulate the lights for a reading of f2 or so. It lets me select the shutter but not the f stop. I really don't like the affect f8 gives me.

I have no idea how to get it to all work together. Any tips? I feel like I'm improvising on all of my equipment. I'll take nay help I can get to piece it all together.

Photosbyme2014 said:

good morning, I have a couple of issues I was hoping you could help me with.

1) i have a canon 70d that I am using a hotshoe to connect to one strobe (with the provided cable) and then use a soft box (or vice Versa) as a slave. Old CY300 strobe lights. I can't seem to get this to work. The only way I am managing to fire the main lights is if I use my speed light and get that to trigger the other two lights. My strobes are older so not sure if that is the issue? I don't really like to use my speed light to trigger them.

2) if I keep it as above, having to use the speed light to trigger, I can't seem to get the 550ex to work off camera.

Click to expand...

Hi, Your 550Ex could work off-cam under 'Canon Wireless Light/IR type' but that always involves a 'Pre-flash' which would usually fire your old Strobes (set as optical slaves) too early. So, short of buying Radio triggers to use throughout (recommended!), keep your 550 on-cam, but set to M (manual) with Wireless and 'Master' etc disabled. Have it at med/low power aimed at the ceiling (or put an IR pass filter on it - beware over-heating). Keep your old Strobes set as optical slaves.

Photosbyme2014 said:

I've followed you tube videos and the manual. Help! So I seem to be stuck with it on camera, which I've been diffusing and bouncing off the ceiling. But it takes away from my 90 /45 degree lighting that I want.

3) using the set up above (speed light on camera) 2 lights as a slave, my light meter sekonic l308 I think only lets me shoot at f8 which I hate. Any idea on being able to manipulate the lights for a reading of f2 or so. It lets me select the shutter but not the f stop. I really don't like the affect f8 gives me.

Click to expand...

Dial down the power of your Strobes or otherwise attenuate their output.

Photosbyme2014 said:

I have no idea how to get it to all work together. Any tips? I feel like I'm improvising on all of my equipment. I'll take nay help I can get to piece it all together.

Click to expand...

First, please tell us specifically what kind of cable runs from the studio-style flash gun to the camera. You mention hotshoe. What, specifically, is in the hotshoe?

What you need is a Nikon AS-15 sync cord to hot shoe converter.

Second, the guilty parties in all this are the pre-flash and the inability of studio flash and on-camera style flash to work together, without a lot of effort.

If you set you EX550 to manual and put it on top of the camera, 1/4 power, and you set your studio flash to 1/4 power, and you ignore all cords and cables, and you set the camera to 1/125 and f8. and you press the shutter release, do both flash guns go off?

Also, if the meter says your flash is putting out f8 worth of light, and you want less light, turn down the power in the flash, or move the flash further away, or put something translucent between the flash and the subject, like a white bath towel, or combine all three methods.

Keep taking meter readings until you get to the f-stop you want.

What kind of light meter?

Can you send us a photo of the control panel on the studio flash?

Please report back.

BAK

Awesome. I will take pictures of what I have. I am on my phone so need to sit and digest the responses later.

Photosbyme2014 said:

good morning, I have a couple of issues I was hoping you could help me with.

1) i have a canon 70d that I am using a hotshoe to connect to one strobe (with the provided cable) and then use a soft box (or vice Versa) as a slave. Old CY300 strobe lights. I can't seem to get this to work. The only way I am managing to fire the main lights is if I use my speed light and get that to trigger the other two lights. My strobes are older so not sure if that is the issue? I don't really like to use my speed light to trigger them.

Click to expand...

THREEE THINGS THAT COULD BE FAILING
1) the device you are using in your hot shoe
2) the sync cable (if separate from the block i your hotshoe
3) the sync connection the flash the sync cable is going to.
in all cases you'll have to try replacing each of these items (excepting #3, which will mean the flash either needs to be repaired or replaced.
A fourth possibility is that if you have two sync cables to the connection device being used in the hotshoe, try with just one and use the optical slave o the second flash.

Photosbyme2014 said:

2) if I keep it as above, having to use the speed light to trigger, I can't seem to get the 550ex to work off camera. I've followed you tube videos and the manual. Help! So I seem to be stuck with it on camera, which I've been diffusing and bouncing off the ceiling. But it takes away from my 90 /45 degree lighting that I want.

Click to expand...

To use the 550 off camera you will need a cable to connect it to the hotshoe. try http://www.ocfgear.com for a decent length, decently priced

Photosbyme2014 said:

3) using the set up above (speed light on camera) 2 lights as a slave, my light meter sekonic l308 I think only lets me shoot at f8 which I hate. Any idea on being able to manipulate the lights for a reading of f2 or so. It lets me select the shutter but not the f stop. I really don't like the affect f8 gives me.

Click to expand...

the meter is only telling you how much light it is reading not adjust the amount of light the flashes are emitting You will need to reduce the amount of light the flashes are emitting. If you are at the bottom of the flashes power range already you will either need to

1) use ND gels on the flashes

2) back them away from the subject
3) figure out some other way to reduce light.

Photosbyme2014 said:

I have no idea how to get it to all work together. Any tips? I feel like I'm improvising on all of my equipment. I'll take nay help I can get to piece it all together.

Click to expand...

Improvising is fine and a great way to learn; just take notes and apply your inherent analytical skills.

--
Ellis Vener
http://www.ellisvener.com
Free your eyes and the rest will follow. (With apologies to George Clinton.)

I just noticed your meter is a Sekonic 308. That's a good meter.

But remember, it is not telling you what aperture to set. (or at least, not directly)

It is telling you how much light is hitting its dome.

If you want less light, move the flash guns, move the subject, change the power level in the flash.

BAK

Here's the lights. The cables I am holding have different sizes for each light. These I plug into the hotshoe (one as master- leave other unplugged) and get no results. The. I switch lights and plug in other to hotshoe, no results. I then remove the hotshoe and add my speedlight with a diffuser and that sets the two lights off remotely when I use the button on the back of the lights for remote.

Trying to figure out how to use this set up without the speedlight. Or if I have to use the speedlight, I don't want it on camera.

Light meter sekonic l308 gives consistent reading of 250 and f8 . Hate this reading. It seems to make the backdrop flaws stand out. Any tips?

Photosbyme2014 said:

Here's the lights. The cables I am holding have different sizes for each light.

These I plug into the hotshoe (one as master- leave other unplugged) and get no results.

Click to expand...

Your camera lacks a PC sync cable connector. To plug the sync cable into your camera you need a hot-shoe to sync cable adapter such as this one.

B&H - Vello Hot Shoe Adapter with PC Socket + Top Shoe - for Canon (E-TTL & E-TTL II)

The sync cable should have a PC connector on one end and either a 1/8" or 1/4" mono audio plug on the other end. You may need a 1/8" to 1/4" mono audio adapter to use the cable with your strobe if the cable has a 1/8" mono audio adapter.

B&H - Impact Sync Cord

B&H - 1/8" to 1/4" Adapter

If you want to test the sync connection of your strobe plug the cord into the strobe then use a small screw driver to short out the PC connection on the other end of the sync cord. The strobe should fire.

Photosbyme2014 said:

The. I switch lights and plug in other to hotshoe, no results. I then remove the hotshoe and add my speedlight with a diffuser and that sets the two lights off remotely when I use the button on the back of the lights for remote.

Trying to figure out how to use this set up without the speedlight. Or if I have to use the speedlight, I don't want it on camera.

Light meter sekonic l308 gives consistent reading of 250 and f8 . Hate this reading. It seems to make the backdrop flaws stand out. Any tips?

Click to expand...

The shutter speed setting is largely immaterial with strobes unless there is an appreciable amount of ambient light so just set it to some convenient value less than the sync speed such as 1/160.

Set the meter ISO and shutter speed to match those of the camera. The meter will then tell you what aperture to use for the power setting of your light. Change the power of the light if you want to change the aperture.

Just be aware that the wider the aperture the more you will be including the ambient light in your exposure so if you want to shoot at f/1.4 you need a really dark studio, which can mean Auto Focus issues if your modeling lights are not bright enough.

Some modeling lights can be use at full power or change intensity to follow the strobe power. Leaving them on full power can make AF work better but with wide apertures they can provide a significant amount of light and the mix of tungsten and flash can effect the WB. At really wide apertures you can consider using only the modeling lights and a tungsten WB.

The best way to meter the main light is to do it with only the main light turned on. Place the back of the meter close to and parallel to the side of the face closest to the main light. Aim the dome of the meter at the main light - never at the camera regardless of what the manual says. Aiming at the light always works to give you details in the brightest highlight on the face while aiming at the camera can cause those highlights to be overexposed if the light is past the 45° angle.

For the fill light you can use only it or just block the main light with your hand or body. Aim the dome directly at the fill light. This way you can establish a known intensity ratio between the two lights. Do the same for hair/accent/background lights.

For a final exposure check place the back of the meter close to and parallel to the brightest highlight and aim it at the main light. If any fill/accent/etc. light is hitting that highlight it will also hit the dome and be included in the final reading.

Frank Doorhof - Light meter to do or not to do…..

Frank Doorhof - ▶ Some tips for the light meter - YouTube

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

BAK said:

First, please tell us specifically what kind of cable runs from the studio-style flash gun to the camera. You mention hotshoe. What, specifically, is in the hotshoe?

What you need is a Nikon AS-15 sync cord to hot shoe converter.

Click to expand...

Not for a Canon camera.

BAK said:

BAK

Click to expand...

Ok so I have the hotshoe and I have the male adapter on one light and the female on the other light.

It still doesn't work- I've swapped them back and forth-using male cable to light and other light as remote, then switched to the female and other light as remote, so it's got to be some setting I am missing. I'm using a 70d.

Both pc cables also plug into the light meter and I can get it to flash by doing a test.

What am I missing to have it flash from the camera itself?

Photosbyme2014 said:

Ok so I have the hotshoe and I have the male adapter on one light and the female on the other light.

It still doesn't work- I've swapped them back and forth-using male cable to light and other light as remote, then switched to the female and other light as remote, so it's got to be some setting I am missing. I'm using a 70d.

Click to expand...

I don't understand the above so let's start here.

Photosbyme2014 said:

Both pc cables also plug into the light meter and I can get it to flash by doing a test.

Click to expand...

You say you can test fire each strobe from the Sekonic 308. I assume you did this one at a time plugging them into the meter with their respective cables?

This confirms the strobes can be triggered from their wired sync connection. Now it is a matter of connecting to the camera. Typically in a studio setting you only need to trigger one strobe with a cable or RF (Radio Frequency) trigger and you set the other strobes to use their built-in optical triggers.

To connect the PC end of the strobe cable to the 70D (which I understand doesn't have its own flash sync PC port) you need an PC adapter in the 70D hot-shoe. I have the Nikon AS-15.

Using a cable will work if it is long enough and you are willing to risk the tripping hazard of either pulling down your strobe or worse yet your tripod mounted camera. :-(

Another risk in using the cable is frying the camera's electronic flash sync circuit from too high a voltage from the sync terminals of old strobes. legacy film era flash guns often have several hundred volts on their sync terminals. I don't know about old studio strobes but I wouldn't personally connect anything to my camera's flash sync circuit without first measuring the voltage or checking the specifications.

A pair of inexpensive manual RF triggers is a better choice than a cable as it eliminates the above risks. You connect the receiving trigger to the strobes wired sync port. The YN RF-603II I use presents only a few volts to the camera while being rated at 300 volts on the flash side.

Hope this helps.

• John

Sailor Blue said:

BAK said:

First, please tell us specifically what kind of cable runs from the studio-style flash gun to the camera. You mention hotshoe. What, specifically, is in the hotshoe?

What you need is a Nikon AS-15 sync cord to hot shoe converter.

Click to expand...

Not for a Canon camera.

Click to expand...

Actually it should work. All the Nikon AS-15 has is one little connecting point in the middle and should work on a Canon hotshoe as well. No TTL connections involved. I think it's pretty universal/non dedicated.

Do you actually know what you are talking about, or just guessing?

I have a Nikon AS-15, and it works just fine on three Canon DSLR cameras to accept a PC sync cable from either one of two Dynnalite professional studio-style flash guns.

I would be amazed if it worked on three Canons I own, but won't work on his 70D.

BAK

I never had a problem before hooking one of my old canons with a hotshoe to the lights via the Cord and using the flash meter. I am not a newbie to studio, but I am not an expert either as I rarely shoot studio.

I am thinking that it's some 70d setting with the flash that I can't get to work???

my equipment consists of



And the cable that connects from it to the hotshoe or light meter.



And the cable that connects from it to the hotshoe or light meter. It's a smaller end I think on this one.

one of the lights has a remote setting. So I don't plug it into anything other than the wall.

the other light (main one I use with a soft box) I plug into the wall and the cable that comes with it into the camera hotshoe.

here comes my problem. It won't work. I am playing with different flash setting on the 70d but can't figure it out. If I plug the cable from the hotshoe into the light meter, it will trigger when I press the light meter test.

If I remove the hotshoe and cables and attach a speedlight, the lights will trigger with that flash.

We know the two flash units have different sync cord designs.

We know that both cords have PC connectors at one end.

We know that each cord has a different connector style at the flash unit end.

We know that "hotshoe" actually means hot-shoe-to-pc-cord converter.

I'm still confused by the reference to the EX-550 flash, but maybe everyone else understands.

If I had all this stuff and was trying to make it work, here's what I'd do.

Several sets of tests.

Test one:

Camera set on manual exposure mode, 1/125 of a second, f 8.

One turned-on studio flash connected to the hot shoe adaptor with its cord.

Press the test button on the back of the flash.

If it goes off, we know the flash works.

Let the flash recharge, and press the shutter release. If the flash goes off, we know the sync cable is not broken.

Test two:

Repeat with the second flash.

If the flash goes off, we know that flash sync cord works, too.

Test three:

With the second flash still connected, turn on the first flash unit, with no sync cord plugged into it.

Now press the shutter release, and see if both flash units go off.

If they do off at the same time, we know the optical slave on the first flash reads the burst of light, and works.

If they do not go off, connect the first flash and its cord to the camera, and press the shutter release.

If they both go off, we know that the slave in the second flash works.

If they both do not go off, we know the slave in the second flash does not work.

--- Let us know the results, and then we'll work on explaining the inverse square law, power levels, multiplying by 1.4, and how to get the aperture to one you like better than f8.

I do not think the 70D has some anti-flash weirdness built in. But it might have.

BAK

Awesome I'll try tomorrow. I wasn't sure who the post was directed at about the equipment. So I just reposted to be clearer

Looking again at the photos in your previous post.

The sync cable shows a 1/8" mono audio plug and a PC connector.

One strobe clearly has a 1/4" mono audio socket, the other looks like it is a 1/8" mono audio socket.

The fact that you can connect the cable to your flash meter and remotely fire the strobes tells us that your cable and sync sockets in the strobes are working fine.

That leaves only one problem area - the hot-shoe to PC adapter.

You really need to tell us exactly what you are using in your camera's hot-shoe to allow you to plug in the sync cable. Is it a device like I recommended before?

B&H - Vello Hot Shoe Adapter with PC Socket + Top Shoe - for Canon (E-TTL & E-TTL II)

A photo of your hot-shoe adapter would be a good idea.

One final thing, be sure your the camera to Manual Flash using the camera's Menu. This shouldn't matter but you are trying to eliminate any possible source of failure.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Ok- I think the big de300b can not be used as a main light.

I can get the little on to work.

I have a dodgy cable- I think- because when I first tried the little light cy300b to the hotshoe converter, the test fired

but the shutter didn't. But...Now the shutter is working??? It wasn't before. And it didn't when I first tried it?

The de300b doesn't work unless it's Alsace taBut I can work out.





thanks for the help, I'll purchase a backup cable in case that's what it is.?



Also any idea what

power m.l

ind m.l

full m.l

stands for on the other light? Does it sound right that the big light can not be a main -hotshoe converter - shutter light?

I am not sure where the weird typo came from, but I was saying the big one seems to be used as a slave only?

In a response to me, the original poster gave us several pictures of the side of his flash guns, and near the top of one of the photos, there's a cell phone picture of what looks like some version of a Wein hotshoe adapter. But its in shadow and fuzzy.

Anyway, we'll get this solved eventually.

BAK