The outcome of the Official 10D AF test in Korea

If the 10% or whatever of failed focusing was random over a variety of conditions, that pretty good, considering you can take as many pictures as you want. You couldn't do that could manually focusing given the same time contraints!

However, if there was one or two particular conditions making up 10% of thte tatol that had close to 100% failures rates that could be very bad.

I guess you had to be there.
 
For the past 90 Days I have been shooting in the studio with a woman shooting a 10d. Her frustration level at times has reached the breaking point with this body. The camera does produce some very nice images but when she is hunting i am always locked in with my D100. No knock on the 10d, just a real life observation.

ab

--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
 
Too bad that's not the issue at hand here; its the accuracy, not the quickness to lock.

The D100 also does not wait for a lock to shoot - which is available in a custom function on the 10D.
For the past 90 Days I have been shooting in the studio with a
woman shooting a 10d. Her frustration level at times has reached
the breaking point with this body. The camera does produce some
very nice images but when she is hunting i am always locked in with
my D100. No knock on the 10d, just a real life observation.

ab

--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
 
Sorry, it's been driving me crazy! :)
1. they(Canon professionals, Korean amateurs, photography related
professionals, etc) tested with 5 bodies both in-doors and
out-doors to simulate the field environments.

2. they used many lenses, not only 50mm f1.8.
I think Mr. Solo misunderstood the messages in the BBS. One of the
member announced that in this official test, shooting the rulers
with 50mm f1.8 had very little thing with actual field test because
many bodies including 1D which showed focus variation at ruler test
showed very sharp images at real field tests. Maybe this paragraph
gives him some translation error.

3. They together shot 279 pictures. Still it is not very clear
whether the 6.8% of focus errors are from AF module, user error or
circumstances. It may be some issue but nobody(except Canon) is
very confident about this. I could read from the board that Canon
actually prepared and presented many hidden internal technical
information - therefore all of them were forced to sign on
non-disclusure agreement - all of them agreed that AF module could
never be 100% percent perfect.
2. Of 1D, 1Ds and 10D, 10D, according to Canon, 10D sensor has the
highest AF sensitivity, which doesn’t mean it’s better [I couldn’t
quite understand this point].
Because 10D has smaller CMOS area, Canon should have developed
'more accurate AF sensor' to meet technical AF standard of better
cameras, meanins 1D and 1DS. Although AF sensor itself was made
more accurate, due to smaller CMOS, it does not mean 10D has better
AF functionality - that is what I understood. Do you?

One of the main problem until this test - which is very exceptional
one I believe - was that the distributors could never provide
satisfacatory services to their customers. They adjusted lenses
and bodies without any standard tool from developers which
amplified the bad effect. Canon and the distributor admitted this
problem and they are now building a new(?) standard of calibration
and offered 2 years warranty to customers who purchased 10D before
this event to compensate miscalibrated bodies and lenses - in the
mean time Canon declared that the AF module of any software is not
changed or will not be changed before and after this event.

The above is all based on my personal understanding to help you to
see the facts of the test.

regards...

driveway
I haven’t had a chance to browse through the forum to see if anyone
else already posted the news. But, here’s an update on what
happened at the official testing of AF issue among the Korean SLR
club that began to boycott 10D.

The test was done in the presence of 5 SLR club member, Canon
technical team, and LG reps. The test equipment was one 1Ds, one
Nikon D100 and five 10D. Of the five 10d’s 3 of them had already
gone through service and 2 of them had not. Apparently all five
10Ds tested were presented by SLR club as defective or problematic
even after recalibration [Correct me if I am wrong, my Korean is
very rusty].

Here’s a brief summary of the result
1. Out of 279 shots taken using 50mm f/1.8, 17 shots failed to nail
the focus point. That translates into 6.8% focus error, which
Canon concluded as an acceptable range.
2. There was no correlation b/w focus failure and serial number of
the camera tested. The serial numbers of the 10Ds included
0330-,0530-,0730-.
3. The three recalibrated 10Ds produced much sharper results than
the non-adjusted.
4. The Canon’s position after the test was that there is no
focusing issue with 10Ds in production.
5. SLR club members seemed to agree on this point as well, at east
on an official note.

Here are some other tidbits that came out of this meeting.
1. On average 10% of Korean 10D users went back for service.
According to Canon, this number is much higher than those seen in
any other countries.
2. Of 1D, 1Ds and 10D, 10D, according to Canon, 10D sensor has the
highest AF sensitivity, which doesn’t mean it’s better [I couldn’t
quite understand this point].
3. Firmware 1.0.1 has nothing to do with any AF issues.
4. According to the test, 10D demonstrated higher focusing accuracy
than Nikon D100 [no quantitative test results were given].
5. LG/Canon stated that any focus recalibration after this meeting
would be done using a standard body and lens shipped from Canon,
Japan to avoid any further compatibility issue between different
lenses and bodies.
6. Another surprising outcome was that LG would extend their
warranty service to 2 years from the date the camera goes through
service.

Now, my personal conclusion!
1. There apparently exist some 10D with focusing problem, but they
seem to fall under the manufacturer’s acceptable quality control
error.
2. At least in Korean DSLR user circle, the majority of focusing
issues reported on their site were more psychological than factual.
3. Here’s the last but not the least. We should stop posting or
reading about this AF woes and go out and take pictures. Once
there was a time when this forum was about photography and not
photo gear.

Happy clicking….

Solo
 
Perhaps you should read MORE of the posts in this thread than just
the first one.

There WAS mention that a flash was used.

And that shots were taken at f/4 and f/5.6
And we're missing one other piece of information: the focus distance. A 50mm lens at 3m would have a depth of field on a 10D of:

f/1.4 = .16m
f/2 = .23m
f/2.8 = .32m
f/4 = .46m
f/5.6 = .64m

Things would be worse at shorter distances. Note also that the margin for error in front of the correct focus distance for these settings is a little lower than in back. Thus, the test at f/5.6 actually had an almost 4x advantage in DOF over what it would have been at f/1.4.

Personally, from what I've seen of the test procedure, I wouldn't base any useful conclusions on it, especially so if you ever shoot at the widest aperture on your lens.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com
 
Too bad that's not the issue at hand here; its the accuracy, not
the quickness to lock.
point taken
The D100 also does not wait for a lock to shoot - which is
available in a custom function on the 10D.
ummm, sure it does TC.
For the past 90 Days I have been shooting in the studio with a
woman shooting a 10d. Her frustration level at times has reached
the breaking point with this body. The camera does produce some
very nice images but when she is hunting i am always locked in with
my D100. No knock on the 10d, just a real life observation.

ab

--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
 
Ok, maybe my anecdotal evidence is wrong -- but the D100 I tried out at Ritz last night let me shoot before getting a lock.. Unless it has a custom function to do so..
Too bad that's not the issue at hand here; its the accuracy, not
the quickness to lock.
point taken
The D100 also does not wait for a lock to shoot - which is
available in a custom function on the 10D.
ummm, sure it does TC.
For the past 90 Days I have been shooting in the studio with a
woman shooting a 10d. Her frustration level at times has reached
the breaking point with this body. The camera does produce some
very nice images but when she is hunting i am always locked in with
my D100. No knock on the 10d, just a real life observation.

ab

--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
 
Well at least you admit the 10D is better than the Rebel II. We're getting somewhere!
I had an el-cheapo EOS Rebel II for ten years. Never thought its AF
was a problem or tough to work with. I took plenty of shots in all
different situations, using manual when I had to, and letting the
AF do its thing most of the time.

Then I got my 10D.

Now I find the old crappy Rebel II completely unusable.

Why d'ya think that is?? :) Has something in my Rebel II
malfunctioned in the past two weeks after 10 years of faithful
service? Doubt it.
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
I had a quick look through the book.
I can't seem to find that function listed.
Too bad that's not the issue at hand here; its the accuracy, not
the quickness to lock.
point taken
The D100 also does not wait for a lock to shoot - which is
available in a custom function on the 10D.
ummm, sure it does TC.
For the past 90 Days I have been shooting in the studio with a
woman shooting a 10d. Her frustration level at times has reached
the breaking point with this body. The camera does produce some
very nice images but when she is hunting i am always locked in with
my D100. No knock on the 10d, just a real life observation.

ab

--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
--
http://www.fototime.com/inv/2DE8A73EF9811C6
 
Most helpful. I hope that many forum members will read you post.

(Will that be the end of all this AF business? I doubt it.)
I would like to add my thanks to driveway, and I too doubt it.

To those who wish to continue insisting the results are meaningless, I ask, what’s the agenda? Some “experts” in this forum continue to perpetuate threads concerning focus issues on the 10D. If what I’ve read is correct, a camera club in Korea arranged a test with their representatives and Canon representatives, and the result was a conclusion that there is not an AF issue. This club and Korea in general, has been the hot spot of complaints and dissatisfaction to the extent of organizing a boycott against the camera. However, our “experts” have not accepted their conclusion. In fact, they’ve decided the tests must have been unfair or stacked. Why would the most vocal of complainants who arranged a 10D boycott allow the tests to have been biased and then agreed with the results? Instead of attempting to find out the answer to this question, our forum nay sayers have cherry picked setups and statistics out of context to validate their claim of an unfair test. Now, the selection of cameras has come into question with the nonsensical statement added that anyone can see that this “test” means nothing.

I believe that everyone who visits this forum has been warned that there may be an autofocus problem with the 10D, whether or not one actually exists. Exactly how it might manifest itself has not been made clear. (Somewhere, it may have been, but certainly not conspicuously presented in the vast majority of threads). Maybe it’s something to look out for with a 50mm 1.8 lens shot wide open at x distance. I don’t know, and I’ve been perusing the focus issue threads for a few weeks. I’ve not made it my life’s major concern, as it appears that some in this forum have.

Which brings me back to my original question: What’s the agenda? The warning has been issued, so any Good Samaritan instincts should be satisfied. Does someone feel so passionately about the problem that they must defend their position ad-infinitum? Are they seeking an admission or recall from Canon? A boycott of 10D’s by forum members? What is being sought? The information presented in this forum must be analyzed carefully, and those “experts” that continually expound their position without offering anything other than argument, should be looked at with a jaundiced eye. Unless some factual information can be brought to the table by a respectable source, I believe it best to let this issue continue to live with those who seem to need it to reinforce their sense of importance.
--
lou
 
If a 10D (or even a D30 for that matter) "hunts" in studio lighting, I'd conclude that the studio is VERY poorly lit (not very likely, IMO), or that the camera is a real dud and needs to be exchanged/repaired immediately.
For the past 90 Days I have been shooting in the studio with a
woman shooting a 10d. Her frustration level at times has reached
the breaking point with this body. The camera does produce some
very nice images but when she is hunting i am always locked in with
my D100. No knock on the 10d, just a real life observation.
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
If a 10D (or even a D30 for that matter) "hunts" in studio
lighting, I'd conclude that the studio is VERY poorly lit (not
very likely, IMO), or that the camera is a real dud and needs to be
exchanged/repaired immediately.
I was going to say the same thing when I saw this. You hear a lot about hunting and concerns of hunting on the Nikon DSLR forum. I always wonder when I hear this, as under normal lighting I never have hunting problems not caused by me (eg. half pressing while aimed at blue sky with the 500f/4).

Jason
 
That the 10D owner with the "hunting" camera was aiming it at dark blue suit against a black background.

The worst digital camera I've ever owned, as far as AF is concerned, is the horid little Nikon Coolpix 5700. Granted, not an SLR but certainly a "high end" digital camera. The 5700 was worthless in normal living room lighting thanks to its complete lack of any kind of AF illuminator. And Nikon, in its infinite wisdom, chose to completely disable the use of an external flash IR AF illuminator when said flash (SB-50DX, etc.) was mounted to a CP 5700.

Maybe I'll drop over to the Nikon forum to tell them why my 10D rules and the Nikon line sucks. No, on second thought, I won't stoop to the same level of trolling I see so frequently here.

Mark
 
That the 10D owner with the "hunting" camera was aiming it at dark
blue suit against a black background.
Nope, sorry.
The worst digital camera I've ever owned, as far as AF is
concerned, is the horid little Nikon Coolpix 5700. Granted, not an
SLR but certainly a "high end" digital camera. The 5700 was
worthless in normal living room lighting thanks to its complete
lack of any kind of AF illuminator. And Nikon, in its infinite
wisdom, chose to completely disable the use of an external flash IR
AF illuminator when said flash (SB-50DX, etc.) was mounted to a CP
5700.
Huh?
Maybe I'll drop over to the Nikon forum to tell them why my 10D
rules and the Nikon line sucks. No, on second thought, I won't
stoop to the same level of trolling I see so frequently here.
My original comment about the low light was a real life observation after several weeks of shooting with a 10d owner. No troll here i actually like the feel and build of the 10d here was my comment "camera does produce some very nice images but when she is hunting i am always locked in with my D100. No knock on the 10d" The 10d IMHO has low light focus problems in the studio. Other than that small glitch i think its a fine camera that produces images that need quite a bit LESS post processing than the D100.

ab

--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
 
What light levels are we talking about here?

ISO, aperture, and shutter speed.

The D30/D60 would hunt a LOT in indoor situations. But the 10D should be able to "not hunt" in normal studio lighting.

If this is normal (eg, well-lit) studio lighting, then you'd be doing her a favor to suggest that she have her camera repaired by Canon.

If you can provide the exposure information, others will be able to comment if their 10D's hunt in this kind of light or not.
My original comment about the low light was a real life observation
after several weeks of shooting with a 10d owner. No troll here i
actually like the feel and build of the 10d here was my comment
"camera does produce some very nice images but when she is hunting
i am always locked in with my D100. No knock on the 10d" The 10d
IMHO has low light focus problems in the studio. Other than that
small glitch i think its a fine camera that produces images that
need quite a bit LESS post processing than the D100.
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
I will mail her and request some images with exif data for yall. She shot with a eos 1v film body before the 10d so if she did have to send it (10d) in she wouldnt be hanging.

ab
ISO, aperture, and shutter speed.

The D30/D60 would hunt a LOT in indoor situations. But the 10D
should be able to "not hunt" in normal studio lighting.

If this is normal (eg, well-lit) studio lighting, then you'd be
doing her a favor to suggest that she have her camera repaired by
Canon.

If you can provide the exposure information, others will be able to
comment if their 10D's hunt in this kind of light or not.
My original comment about the low light was a real life observation
after several weeks of shooting with a 10d owner. No troll here i
actually like the feel and build of the 10d here was my comment
"camera does produce some very nice images but when she is hunting
i am always locked in with my D100. No knock on the 10d" The 10d
IMHO has low light focus problems in the studio. Other than that
small glitch i think its a fine camera that produces images that
need quite a bit LESS post processing than the D100.
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
--
http://www.pbase.com/andybloedow
 

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