DxO Optics Pro not compatible with Sony RAW

gordonpritchard · Jul 2, 2016

Just a head's up. I've tried every which way (including v 9, 10, and 11) as well as gotten users on the DxO forum to try processing my Sony RAW files - but the results are always the same. Even if you turn off all adjustment modules you end up with poor detail and artifacts if you use DxO Optics Pro to open Sony RAW image files. As far as I can tell, it just can't deal with Sony RAW images. :-(

fzrTom · Jul 2, 2016

I have used DxO7, DxO8, and now DxO10.5 with my Sony A33, Sony A58 and Sony A7S with a lot of lenses and I have no problem at all. I have tried different software to PP my RAW and DxO 10.5 is the one that gives the best result at high ISO. So I dont understand what happend in your case.

Few examples with different lenses and cameras :

Etc ...

More in my gallery

--
Franck

sybersitizen · Jul 2, 2016

gordonpritchard said:
DxO Optics Pro not compatible with Sony RAW

That can be immediately disproven. I've been using DxO OP v8 for years with my A55 and A77 RAW files. However, v8 does not open RAW files from some other recent cameras. Incompatible RAW files produce a message in the program workspace: This image cannot be processed since it was taken with a camera that is not supported by this version of DxO Optics Pro.

gordonpritchard said:
Even if you turn off all adjustment modules you end up with poor detail and artifacts if you use DxO Optics Pro to open Sony RAW image files. As far as I can tell, it just can't deal with Sony RAW images.

Apparently what you actually mean is that you don't like what DxO OP does with the files. That's fine - use something else that you like better.

Blackbear · Jul 2, 2016

fzrTom said:
I have used DxO7, DxO8, and now DxO10.5 with my Sony A33, Sony A58 and Sony A7S with a lot of lenses and I have no problem at all. I have tried different software to PP my RAW and DxO 10.5 is the one that gives the best result at high ISO. So I dont understand what happend in your case.

Few examples with different lenses and cameras :

Etc ...

More in my gallery

--
Franck

Is it possible cRAW in the newer Sony's vs RAW in the older Sony's could cause this? Maybe cRAW isn't correctly handled?

--
Mart
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away.
Kodak DX7590, CX7525, Z980, P880, C875, P850, M583, P712, V570, DC3400, DC290, DC4800, Z990 MAX, EasyShare One (4mp), V610. Sony SLT a77II
( Lumix TZ40 my wife)

Yemble · Jul 2, 2016

gordonpritchard said:
Just a head's up. I've tried every which way (including v 9, 10, and 11) as well as gotten users on the DxO forum to try processing my Sony RAW files - but the results are always the same. Even if you turn off all adjustment modules you end up with poor detail and artifacts if you use DxO Optics Pro to open Sony RAW image files. As far as I can tell, it just can't deal with Sony RAW images. :-(

Timothy S Broadley · Jul 2, 2016

I've used DxO ver 9-11 and never had that problem except got my Hassie hv35

tim

Austinian · Jul 2, 2016

FWIW, the OP goes into much more detail about his complaints in this thread from a week ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776

From a quick scan of the thread, it looks to me like it has nothing to do with what I'd call "compatibility" with Sony RAW files; more like a matter of different ways of working with RAW files.

Steve Cohan · Jul 2, 2016

your system. I have used several versions, including the current one, without issues. I use the a850, a77, a700, a77M2 and the RX100. All with various lenses and no problems.

gordonpritchard · Jul 2, 2016

Austinian said:
FWIW, the OP goes into much more detail about his complaints in this thread from a week ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776

From a quick scan of the thread, it looks to me like it has nothing to do with what I'd call "compatibility" with Sony RAW files; more like a matter of different ways of working with RAW files.

That's quite possible - except that others were getting the same results from the RAW file that I was.

Do you have basic settings that you use as a starting point for noise reduction that you could share? Does the DxO lens softness filter affect whether artefacts show up? There's a lot that I like about DxO - but the introduction of artefacts means that for me it's unusable.

But I will keep trying until I figure out what the issue is.

--
My photos: http://www.gordonpritchard.blogspot.com/
My sketches: http://thesoftpen.blogspot.com/

sybersitizen · Jul 2, 2016

gordonpritchard said:
Austinian said:

FWIW, the OP goes into much more detail about his complaints in this thread from a week ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776

From a quick scan of the thread, it looks to me like it has nothing to do with what I'd call "compatibility" with Sony RAW files; more like a matter of different ways of working with RAW files.

Click to expand...

That's quite possible - except that others were getting the same results from the RAW file that I was.

The remarkable thing in that that thread is that nobody got anything remotely near the result that you showed in this posted comparison:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776#forum-post-58003058

I very much want to understand how that was done.

gordonpritchard · Jul 2, 2016

sybersitizen said:
The remarkable thing in that that thread is that nobody got anything remotely near the result that you showed in this posted comparison:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776#forum-post-58003058

I very much want to understand how that was done.

So, I managed to recreate it the way I think I originally did.

AFAIK I opened the original RAW file in PShop and removed as much of the noise as I could there. Then I launched the Topaz deNoise plugin and further reduced the noise. (Apparently you're not supposed to do a double denoise like that when using Topaz). Then I sharpened the image using the High Pas filter technique (and denoised that filter layer when setting it to Overlay). Since artefacts were not introduced by either PShop or Topaz - the final image was quite "clean" so sharpening retained a smooth image. On the other hand, it seems that no matter what the settings, DxO does some harsh sharpening to the image even when all settings are off. That introduces the artefacts that I see and, to me, kills the app.

Austinian · Jul 3, 2016

gordonpritchard said:
Austinian said:

FWIW, the OP goes into much more detail about his complaints in this thread from a week ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776

From a quick scan of the thread, it looks to me like it has nothing to do with what I'd call "compatibility" with Sony RAW files; more like a matter of different ways of working with RAW files.

Click to expand...

That's quite possible - except that others were getting the same results from the RAW file that I was.

Do you have basic settings that you use as a starting point for noise reduction that you could share? Does the DxO lens softness filter affect whether artefacts show up? There's a lot that I like about DxO - but the introduction of artefacts means that for me it's unusable.

But I will keep trying until I figure out what the issue is.

I start with a default setting of nothing but the automatic lens corrections, including lens softness, then proceed with image adjustments from there.

I can't help with your artifacts, because whatever has produced them isn't something I've seen; using DxO OP has been a relatively simple and straightforward process for me.

My point was simply that the thread title is misleading; as many others here have stated, there is no 'compatibility' issue in the sense of DxO not working properly with Sony RAWs.

If you don't like the results DxO gives with some images, but you do with others, it may be appropriate to use different RAW processors for different images.

sybersitizen · Jul 3, 2016

gordonpritchard said:
sybersitizen said:

The remarkable thing in that that thread is that nobody got anything remotely near the result that you showed in this posted comparison:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776#forum-post-58003058

I very much want to understand how that was done.

Click to expand...

So, I managed to recreate it the way I think I originally did.

AFAIK I opened the original RAW file in PShop and removed as much of the noise as I could there.

Is that the noise reduction offered within Adobe Camera RAW or outside of it? What version of Photoshop?

gordonpritchard said:
Then I launched the Topaz deNoise plugin and further reduced the noise. (Apparently you're not supposed to do a double denoise like that when using Topaz). Then I sharpened the image using the High Pas filter technique (and denoised that filter layer when setting it to Overlay).

Okay, thanks. I will for now assume that Topaz DeNoise is primarily responsible for the amazing detail recovery. I might have to check out a trial version.

gordonpritchard said:
Since artefacts were not introduced by either PShop or Topaz - the final image was quite "clean" so sharpening retained a smooth image. On the other hand, it seems that no matter what the settings, DxO does some harsh sharpening to the image even when all settings are off. That introduces the artefacts that I see and, to me, kills the app.

I don't know if it's 'sharpening' or not, but it does handle the files in its own way and produce its own unique result, even if all adjustments are turned off. That's just the way it is. If you're curious enough you can load sample RAW files from other manufacturers in both programs to see if the DxO 'artifacts' are camera-brand-specific or not.

gordonpritchard · Jul 3, 2016

sybersitizen said:
gordonpritchard said:

sybersitizen said:

The remarkable thing in that that thread is that nobody got anything remotely near the result that you showed in this posted comparison:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776#forum-post-58003058

I very much want to understand how that was done.

Click to expand...

So, I managed to recreate it the way I think I originally did.

AFAIK I opened the original RAW file in PShop and removed as much of the noise as I could there.

Click to expand...

Is that the noise reduction offered within Adobe Camera RAW or outside of it? What version of Photoshop?

Yes, the noise reduction within Adobe Camera RAW. PShop CC 2015 and 2015.5

Douglas F Watt · Jul 3, 2016

gordonpritchard said:
Just a head's up. I've tried every which way (including v 9, 10, and 11) as well as gotten users on the DxO forum to try processing my Sony RAW files - but the results are always the same. Even if you turn off all adjustment modules you end up with poor detail and artifacts if you use DxO Optics Pro to open Sony RAW image files. As far as I can tell, it just can't deal with Sony RAW images. :-(

NAwlins Contrarian · Jul 3, 2016

Even if you turn off all adjustment modules you end up with poor detail and artifacts if you use DxO Optics Pro to open Sony RAW image files. As far as I can tell, it just can't deal with Sony RAW images.

My experience has been very good using DxO Optics Pro--at least versions 9, 10, and now 11, and I think I started with 8--to process Sony raw files from the A580, RX100 (original), and A7 II (plus my old Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D). I have also used Lightroom (5 and 6), Sony Image Data Converter (versions going back several years), and Capture One (8 and 9 and I think 7). In my opinion / experience, DxO Optics Pro is overall the best. For any given picture I might slightly prefer the color I can get from IDC, or the lens corrections I can get from LR, but overall DxO is my favorite.

So there appear to be three possibilities: (1) you are not actually turning off some setting that is doing something odd, (2) what you are describing as poor detail and/or artifacts is just some difference in default sharpening and/or your taste / perception, (3) you're using too much lossy compression to save the worked-over file, and/or (4) you've discovered a bug particular to your camera, lens, and/or workflow.

Why don't you post (1) a link to your raw file(s) that are causing trouble and (2) a 100% crop of a processed file that you think shows the artifacts? I, and probably some others, would be curious to see whether we find the same problem(s). Also, if you want to post a 100% crop of a file from another raw converter that you think does not show the problem, that would be very helpful.

sybersitizen · Jul 3, 2016

NAwlins Contrarian said:
... Why don't you post (1) a link to your raw file(s) that are causing trouble and (2) a 100% crop of a processed file that you think shows the artifacts? I, and probably some others, would be curious to see whether we find the same problem(s). Also, if you want to post a 100% crop of a file from another raw converter that you think does not show the problem, that would be very helpful.

Look at the OP's other thread that was referenced earlier:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4021776#forum-post-57970367

There's no question that DxO OP renders things differently at a pixel level than other converters do, even when all adjustments are disabled or zeroed out. Every converter is unique in that regard. One has to either accept how it handles files or use something else.

gordonpritchard · Jul 3, 2016

NAwlins Contrarian said:
Why don't you post (1) a link to your raw file(s) that are causing trouble and (2) a 100% crop of a processed file that you think shows the artifacts? I, and probably some others, would be curious to see whether we find the same problem(s). Also, if you want to post a 100% crop of a file from another raw converter that you think does not show the problem, that would be very helpful.

That would be very helpful.

Here's the link to a RAW file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4wqfzbtrnrf469/Yummies.ARW?dl=0

Here is a low res of the image:

I tried to find an area that clearly showed the issue I'm having. I chose the watch on the right side lady's wrist.

Here's how they compare when all settings are turned off with PShop (left) and DxO (right). The only adjustment was exposure since the original RAW is slightly underexposed.

What I see is a slightly chunkier noise pattern in the DxO version and it has slightly more color saturation (which I don't care about since that can always be changed in PP).

This is what the result is with what I think are appropriate corrections.

Here I've upsampled the image to hopefully more clearly show the difference:

DxO has done a better job of getting rid of chromatic aberrations (which I really like). However it's also applied some kind of sharpening which has caused the edges of the watch to become ragged/pixelated. There are also pixel specks in the skin tones and grey area in the bottom right corner of the above pic. This can give the appearance of more detail than the PShop version, however any sharpening that I do would only increase the visibility of those DxO artifacts whereas I can add sharpening to the PShop image without getting those artifacts. Ideally, I would like to stop DxO from applying any sharpening to the image and let me do that myself.

I'd love to see if anyone can get a "cleaner" image with DxO from my RAW file.

--
My photos: http://www.gordonpritchard.blogspot.com/
My sketches: http://thesoftpen.blogspot.com/

NAwlins Contrarian · Jul 3, 2016

Thanks, I will be curious to try with DxO, IDC, and probably LR. It looks to me like a basic difference in noise reduction and sharpening. As you probably know, DxO has two different types of noise reduction, and you can choose either and change the aggressiveness. DxO also has adjustable sharpening. LR has a bunch of options too, and IDC has some. Lemme see ...

gordonpritchard · Jul 3, 2016

NAwlins Contrarian said:
Thanks, I will be curious to try with DxO, IDC, and probably LR. It looks to me like a basic difference in noise reduction and sharpening. As you probably know, DxO has two different types of noise reduction, and you can choose either and change the aggressiveness. DxO also has adjustable sharpening. LR has a bunch of options too, and IDC has some. Lemme see ...

It would be great if you could figure out how to turn off DxO's sharpening.

DxO Optics Pro not compatible with Sony RAW

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