Printing Prices Help

dawnsapphire · Jun 4, 2016

I have had my own photography business for a little over a year now, and although I charge for the photoshoot and give the clients a digital DVD, I know the real money is where the prints are, but to be honest, I have been struggling for quite some time as to how to price them and if I should order the prints online or find a local photo lab.

So my question is... what do you usually include in your prints and how much do you offer? Since I am a beginner at the business side and an intermediate photographer, I will not charge a fortune, but I want to charge enough to where I can make a living off of my photography. Anything will help, even if it is just an example.

Thank you for your help and I greatly appreciate your time!

BAK · Jun 4, 2016

Let's say you need a pre-tax personal income (the same as if you had a job) of $85,000.

And let's say you need to spend $12,000 a year on marketing, $5,000 a year on still photography equipment, $3,500 on video equipment, $4,000 on legal and accounting expenses, $3,000 a year on conferences and seminars, $1200 on software, $5.000 on vehicle expenses, and $3,600 on couriers, delivery, etc.

Round it to $35,000.

So you need to bring in $120,000 a year, or an average of $10,000 a month.

The next part is sort of like a swing or a staircase.

How many jobs, and what kind of jobs, can you get per month, and how much can you charge? If you charge more, you'll get fewer jobs. If you charge less, you get more jobs.

Semi-decide on the best combination.

What kind of jobs are they?

The kind of job determines the need for prints.

Most of my work is combined with a PR consulting operation, and I rarely provide prints.

Anyway, gotta go.

BAK

BAK · Jun 4, 2016

So you need $10,000 a month, which works out to $1000 a project, for a project every other weekday.

Which brings you back to the type of project.

Maybe you can get a family to pose, for $750, and buy $500 worth of prints, for a total invoice (other than taxes) of $1250.

So if you can find a lab, and framer, that will sell you the prints and frames for $250, you give the lab the $250 you received over top of the $1000 you need.

Good luck - this is hard to accomplish.

BAK

dawnsapphire · Jun 4, 2016

Thank you for the information. Anything is helpful

Bassman2003 · Jun 4, 2016

Start with at least a 3x markup of what the lab will charge you to make the print. Also think of a minimum order amount like $25 or $50 and work up from there. If you are already giving the digital files you will be selling additional items so large prints, specialty items, framed prints etc... Just price it so you do not get hurt then go up fro there as your skills and demand increases.

Gato Amarillo · Jun 5, 2016

dawnsapphire said:
I have had my own photography business for a little over a year now, and although I charge for the photoshoot and give the clients a digital DVD, I know the real money is where the prints are, but to be honest, I have been struggling for quite some time as to how to price them and if I should order the prints online or find a local photo lab.

If you can find a full-service local lab there can be advantages to working face-to-face with your suppliers, but those exist mostly in larger cities. An online lab will often offer a wider range of products and ordering can be quicker and easier. And cheaper.

dawnsapphire said:
So my question is... what do you usually include in your prints and how much do you offer? Since I am a beginner at the business side and an intermediate photographer, I will not charge a fortune, but I want to charge enough to where I can make a living off of my photography. Anything will help, even if it is just an example.

I do almost zero print business, but my portrait photographer friends seem to make most of their print profit from larger framed or mounted prints and photo books. Think prints 20 to 40 inches wide, sold ready to hang. In some cases they visit clients' homes to work with them on selection and sizes. For smaller prints they often deliver in gift boxes or packages designed to complement their branding.

In my opinion, the only way to build a real business is to offer a premium profit, service and marketing at premium prices. A part-timer can pick up some extra bucks doing cheap photography, but it would be very hard to build a real business around cheap prices.

Selling prints takes time, you have to allow for that. BAK offers one good approach above, but the other method is to consider your time and cost. Be sure to allow for ALL your time -- sales, ordering prints, sorting orders, delivery and the rest. Be sure to allow for the time you put in on clients who don't buy, or don't buy enough. You should work through from both sides -- if the answers are not reasonably close you may need to rethink your assumptions and business plan. (The biggest mistakes I see are underestimating the amount of time involved and not paying yourself enough, along with overestimating the number of sessions you can sell and execute.)

Another factor is your existing clients. Are they people who can and will spend $250 to $1,000 on a print package? I think that's the range to aim for, with your average sale near the top of the range. Do they have room in their homes to display large (think 40 inch) prints? If not you may need to move up to a better grade of client.

dawnsapphire said:
Thank you for your help and I greatly appreciate your time!

I guess I was pretty vague, but my advice is to put together some packages, get samples made, put together price lists and promo materials, and start trying to sell. You can check your competitors' websites -- some of them will probably list packages and prices -- for ideas. Once you have samples and materials in hand you can start trying to sell. Pay attention to your clients' reactions and be ready to adjust.

photolando · Jun 5, 2016

For just starting out, I would figure out ALL the cost of a print and mark that up no less than 5X. NOT just what the lab charges. How much time did you (or someone else) put in retouching? Tine is money. Charge for it. Is the lab adding packaging? Are you? Does the lab ship to you for free or is there a charge? How much to drop ship to the client? Add all THAT up and times THAT by 5. After that, your demand and your sales ability will determine how much more you can sell your product.

This is why selling an 8x10 for $25 is pretty much a loss. It would be for me. My costs to deliver an 8x10 to my clients is around $25. That is why my 8x10s are $125. And for some studios, that is actually cheap.

Know your numbers. Know your craft. Know how to market and sell. If you fail at any of those, your business, ANY business, will fail.

Bassman2003 · Jun 5, 2016

I would add to know your own service. If you are charging $125 for an 8x10 then you are not delivering just an 8x10, but a bundle of time/service. Does this fit your workflow and are your 8x10's worth $125?

These internet pay schemes are meaning less until they relate to YOUR business. Just because one person can charge ...and get $125 for an 8x10 does not mean all should charge that much. Quite frankly all are not worth $125.

Charge what you feel is worth it for you to do the work and your clients to see enough value to pay. This will change over your career but is really the only way to price your services.

The "calculator" approaches make me laugh out loud. "I want to make $100,000 per year and only work one day a week". The calculator says you need to charge $1923 per job...

There is another side to this equation and it is the customer. Somebody has to be willing to pay for your services. THEY are the people that determine your real rates. You can hang a shingle with any amount painted on it. Does not mean you will get it.

Bring the value and the money will come.

BAK · Jun 6, 2016

There's some reference to packages, but not much detail.

Some photographers offer pre-defined packages, which include taking the pictures and providing prints.

Often they are called metal names -- silver, gold, platinum.

People get more and more stuff, as the price rises.

But the minimum package, and its price, must be worth your while.

Say silver is $350, and it includes taking pictures, showing selected proofs, and delivering five 5x7 prints and two 8x10 prints.

Then gold is $500, includes a dozen 4x6, ten 5x7, four 8x10, and an 11x14, with the 8x10 prints in cardboard mounts.

And platinum, for $750, includes everything in gold, plus a framed 16 x20 , with the frame chosen from half a dozen styles you offer.

Play around with all the combos.

Do not give away CDs with your images.

BAK

dawnsapphire · Jun 7, 2016

photolando said:
For just starting out, I would figure out ALL the cost of a print and mark that up no less than 5X. NOT just what the lab charges. How much time did you (or someone else) put in retouching? Tine is money. Charge for it. Is the lab adding packaging? Are you? Does the lab ship to you for free or is there a charge? How much to drop ship to the client? Add all THAT up and times THAT by 5. After that, your demand and your sales ability will determine how much more you can sell your product.

This is why selling an 8x10 for $25 is pretty much a loss. It would be for me. My costs to deliver an 8x10 to my clients is around $25. That is why my 8x10s are $125. And for some studios, that is actually cheap.

Know your numbers. Know your craft. Know how to market and sell. If you fail at any of those, your business, ANY business, will fail.

TheTom · Jun 8, 2016

Bassman2003 said:
There is another side to this equation and it is the customer. Somebody has to be willing to pay for your services.

No, they are not. They pay what I offer, OR I do not offer it. As in: If I can not make a market at an acceptable price, there are plenty of other ventures you can work in.

This is a typical mistake small businesses do - and then they end up sticking to some business that earns them minimum wage or below. If the customer(s) are not willing to pay what I need or want to earn, I am not lowering prices - I move to another field of business.

There are tons of businesses that are simply not viable for a decent living. Can be you lack the skills, can be you are simply in the wrong location. But "trying to make it" in a non viable market by letting the customers decide - is not a way to make a decent living.

Change the business. This can be a big change (do something else) or a small change (try to create more value). But do not let customers decide your income.

Now, that being said - you posted a nice before/after photo here. IMHO not business quality at all. The after "glow" - not sure how much you spent on that time wise. Portrait Pro would likely do a better job in less than a minute. If you even need it - because it simply looked like you were shooting with really bad light. A little off camera flash to lighten up the face works wonder. Learn your tools. Not saying "you have no place in this business" just "you want to attract a better clientele, your photos must look different from someone just grabbing a photo from his phone" and that one you posted is not. You say about learning - go for it

And realize that a lot of photographers do not make a lot of money. Which may or may not be related to the market or their photography skill - or, as an earlier poster said, it is related to their business skill. Never forget that running a photo studio is running a business. Something does not work, YOU pivot the business model. If you expect other people to do it for you - it will one day be a bankruptcy judge, because that it the ONLY other person that has the power to change your business model. And that is not meant as criticism - because the way you ask here already is a lot more than I think most people even try. So you are on a good way. Keep learning.

dawnsapphire · Jun 8, 2016

TheTom said:
Bassman2003 said:

There is another side to this equation and it is the customer. Somebody has to be willing to pay for your services.

Click to expand...

No, they are not. They pay what I offer, OR I do not offer it. As in: If I can not make a market at an acceptable price, there are plenty of other ventures you can work in.

This is a typical mistake small businesses do - and then they end up sticking to some business that earns them minimum wage or below. If the customer(s) are not willing to pay what I need or want to earn, I am not lowering prices - I move to another field of business.

There are tons of businesses that are simply not viable for a decent living. Can be you lack the skills, can be you are simply in the wrong location. But "trying to make it" in a non viable market by letting the customers decide - is not a way to make a decent living.

Change the business. This can be a big change (do something else) or a small change (try to create more value). But do not let customers decide your income.

Now, that being said - you posted a nice before/after photo here. IMHO not business quality at all. The after "glow" - not sure how much you spent on that time wise. Portrait Pro would likely do a better job in less than a minute. If you even need it - because it simply looked like you were shooting with really bad light. A little off camera flash to lighten up the face works wonder. Learn your tools. Not saying "you have no place in this business" just "you want to attract a better clientele, your photos must look different from someone just grabbing a photo from his phone" and that one you posted is not. You say about learning - go for it

And realize that a lot of photographers do not make a lot of money. Which may or may not be related to the market or their photography skill - or, as an earlier poster said, it is related to their business skill. Never forget that running a photo studio is running a business. Something does not work, YOU pivot the business model. If you expect other people to do it for you - it will one day be a bankruptcy judge, because that it the ONLY other person that has the power to change your business model. And that is not meant as criticism - because the way you ask here already is a lot more than I think most people even try. So you are on a good way. Keep learning.

I appreciate your criticism on my work, but you have to understand that I recently just started with the editing process with Lightroom, so it is going to take a while to get it to the professional look that I am wanting, and I know this is just a step towards what I my goal is. Like I said, and what you mentioned, yes, I am going to get into a more educational level on many aspects, including the business side, and I will apply each and everything I will learn towards my photography and whatever other businesses I am wanting to pursue in my future (which I have a ton of goals and ambitions for the business world and not just in photography). I am also going to take a course on editing, whether it be Lightroom or Photoshop, and I know that'll help me grow as well. I have done a vast amount of research (and I am still doing so) on the business side, so I have a decent understanding, but there are just some things that I don't know what to look up, and I am expecting to learn it in the classes that I am taking.

Anyways, thank you for all the advice you have given. I greatly appreciate it and I stick to what I said in my original post, anything helps

Bassman2003 · Jun 8, 2016

TheTom said:
Bassman2003 said:

There is another side to this equation and it is the customer. Somebody has to be willing to pay for your services.

Click to expand...

No, they are not. They pay what I offer, OR I do not offer it. As in: If I can not make a market at an acceptable price, there are plenty of other ventures you can work in.

This is a typical mistake small businesses do - and then they end up sticking to some business that earns them minimum wage or below. If the customer(s) are not willing to pay what I need or want to earn, I am not lowering prices - I move to another field of business.

There are tons of businesses that are simply not viable for a decent living. Can be you lack the skills, can be you are simply in the wrong location. But "trying to make it" in a non viable market by letting the customers decide - is not a way to make a decent living.

Change the business. This can be a big change (do something else) or a small change (try to create more value). But do not let customers decide your income.

Now, that being said - you posted a nice before/after photo here. IMHO not business quality at all. The after "glow" - not sure how much you spent on that time wise. Portrait Pro would likely do a better job in less than a minute. If you even need it - because it simply looked like you were shooting with really bad light. A little off camera flash to lighten up the face works wonder. Learn your tools. Not saying "you have no place in this business" just "you want to attract a better clientele, your photos must look different from someone just grabbing a photo from his phone" and that one you posted is not. You say about learning - go for it

And realize that a lot of photographers do not make a lot of money. Which may or may not be related to the market or their photography skill - or, as an earlier poster said, it is related to their business skill. Never forget that running a photo studio is running a business. Something does not work, YOU pivot the business model. If you expect other people to do it for you - it will one day be a bankruptcy judge, because that it the ONLY other person that has the power to change your business model. And that is not meant as criticism - because the way you ask here already is a lot more than I think most people even try. So you are on a good way. Keep learning.

While I agree with your post, I think it is on a tangent away from my point. Which is, people without a lot of professional experience should not charge "professional" rates until they are ready to charge these rates. If the ability is not there, the customer will not be willing to pay or at least some will not. It is about integrity and having people pay you for a service. Imho it is up to the pro to actually be a pro and not just follow an online calculator.

I know ethics are not part of business they way it is practiced these days, but I still try to have a guiding star.

TheTom · Jun 8, 2016

dawnsapphire said:
I appreciate your criticism on my work, but you have to understand that I recently just started with the editing process with Lightroom, so it is going to take a while to get it

Did you read what I wrote?

The glow effect is not something you should do in lightroom. A simple flash would have made the same and it would be a PHOTO. The picture is underexposed AND the face is not separated by enough light from the background. Both are things that you should not have to fix in lightroom, but you do correct when taking the picture.

Grab a cheap off camera flash system (Nissin 700, Air Commander) and start controlling your light. WAY less editing.

Also, as photographer: time is money. Check out Portrait Pro - for 90% of the portraits (especially when mass shooting events) it is more than enough and can fix photos on automatic

dawnsapphire · Jun 10, 2016

TheTom said:
dawnsapphire said:

I appreciate your criticism on my work, but you have to understand that I recently just started with the editing process with Lightroom, so it is going to take a while to get it

Click to expand...

Did you read what I wrote?

The glow effect is not something you should do in lightroom. A simple flash would have made the same and it would be a PHOTO. The picture is underexposed AND the face is not separated by enough light from the background. Both are things that you should not have to fix in lightroom, but you do correct when taking the picture.

Grab a cheap off camera flash system (Nissin 700, Air Commander) and start controlling your light. WAY less editing.

Also, as photographer: time is money. Check out Portrait Pro - for 90% of the portraits (especially when mass shooting events) it is more than enough and can fix photos on automatic

I might have misunderstood what you said in your last post, or I just simply forgot what you wrote and didn't go back to see what you said once again, so I apologize for that, and did not mean to offend you (if I did).

I will try out the flash next time I do a photoshoot or just test it on a subject and hopefully I'll be able to understand what you and eal76 were saying a bit better.

--

Easy Rider · Jun 11, 2016

dawnsapphire said:
Since I am a beginner at the business side and an intermediate photographer, I will not charge a fortune, but I want to charge enough to where I can make a living off of my photography. Anything will help, even if it is just an example.

This is an arbitrary misjudgement on your part and will only hold you back. It is arbitrary - if you are talking about the general public.

The businesses that do well in my area do not make the best photography. They just make more money from it.

The general public have no idea what really good photography looks like same as how they cannot distinguish great music from the pop music the voraciously consume or good movies from the rubbish they watch at the local multiplex.

They judge like this

'That store is bigger and has more signs and lights and charges more than that small one that looks like it's failing, so they must do better photography.'

They want heavy saturated colourful prints that are relatively not OOF.

Simples.

I know a guy that makes a mint doing weddings and portraits and school portraits. He shoots and prints Size 8 JPEGS at the local ASDA, which is the UK version of WALLMART.

I kid you not.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131361106@N07/sets/72157651211963409/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/131361106@N07/sets/72157654221552079

dawnsapphire · Jun 11, 2016

Easy Rider said:
Easy Rider said:

Since I am a beginner at the business side and an intermediate photographer, I will not charge a fortune, but I want to charge enough to where I can make a living off of my photography. Anything will help, even if it is just an example.

Click to expand...

This is an arbitrary misjudgement on your part and will only hold you back. It is arbitrary - if you are talking about the general public.

The businesses that do well in my area do not make the best photography. They just make more money from it.

The general public have no idea what really good photography looks like same as how they cannot distinguish great music from the pop music the voraciously consume or good movies from the rubbish they watch at the local multiplex.

They judge like this

'That store is bigger and has more signs and lights and charges more than that small one that looks like it's failing, so they must do better photography.'

They want heavy saturated colourful prints that are relatively not OOF.

Simples.

I know a guy that makes a mint doing weddings and portraits and school portraits. He shoots and prints Size 8 JPEGS at the local ASDA, which is the UK version of WALLMART.

I kid you not.

Photomonkey · Jun 12, 2016

dawnsapphire said:
I have had my own photography business for a little over a year now, and although I charge for the photoshoot and give the clients a digital DVD, I know the real money is where the prints are, but to be honest, I have been struggling for quite some time as to how to price them and if I should order the prints online or find a local photo lab.

So my question is... what do you usually include in your prints and how much do you offer? Since I am a beginner at the business side and an intermediate photographer, I will not charge a fortune, but I want to charge enough to where I can make a living off of my photography. Anything will help, even if it is just an example.

Thank you for your help and I greatly appreciate your time!

They will be the best resource for any portrait and wedding photographer for business info.

I have been a professional photographer for over 30 years and they are the only organization that takes an organized approach to the entire business of portrait and wedding photography.

Most everything cited above (haven't read everything) is anecdote that is next to useless.

If you want to be in business you need to listen to the people who will teach you how to set up, market, manage and price your business.

Listening to random people on forums who give you arbitrary formulas is a recipe for disaster.

You need to know the whys and wherefore of the business.

Just do it.

BAK · Jun 14, 2016

RE> Most everything cited above (haven't read everything) is anecdote that is next to useless. <

Actually, there's lots of useful information in the thread.

BAK

James1940 · Jul 19, 2016

I would triple your cost and charge that. So $5 to make a 4x6 charge $15

Printing Prices Help

Member

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Member

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Member

Forum Enthusiast

Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Senior Member

Forum Pro

James1940

Guest

Keyboard shortcuts