kwa_photo
Senior Member
I haven't seen it on my GX8 at all. Then again, about 80% of my images are with the Panny 12-35 and 35-100 f/2.8 lenses. The rest with the Oly 25 f/1.8.
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Is the GX8 shutter shock a deal breaker?
- Thread starter jimkahnw
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No SS problems with the GX7+Oly45 and GX7+Oly9-18 (likewise G6 and those lenses). These are the only Oly lenses I have.
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Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
http://rabaulpng.com/we-are-all-traveling-throug/i-waited-51-years-for-tavur.html
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Odd, brian. This shot is 1/100 with the 12-35 @ 25mm and no sign of SS whatsoever.
Here is another example -- a 100% grab from frame. Taken @ 16mm @ 1/80. No sign of SS at all as you can see -- and it would really show with the lines of contrast in this shot.
I wonder whether it can be focal length related too.
The mysteries of technology.
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Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
Big D in SP
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Ever experience "mirror slap" in a DSLR? No? Then you never checked for it. It's why my Nikon D300 had a "shutter delay" setting.
The real "deal breaker" for me here on out is a camera without a silent, electronic shutter.....Warren
The real "deal breaker" for me here on out is a camera without a silent, electronic shutter.....Warren
so, for those with experience, does the "work around" solve the problem with the 40-140? That would be my choice of lens.
BTW, I would not defend Panasonic because on an enthusiast level camera, this should not be something the user has to worry about; eg..who wants even the slightest problem at moderate shutter speeds? I don't buy the comparisons with "mirror slap" on SLR...that's only at real slow speeds and if you're doing time exposure, you can lock up the mirror. If they came up w/a solution for the cheaper camera, they should have built it in to the higher end model a year sooner; it wasn't exactly as complex as building the Hyperloop!
BTW, I would not defend Panasonic because on an enthusiast level camera, this should not be something the user has to worry about; eg..who wants even the slightest problem at moderate shutter speeds? I don't buy the comparisons with "mirror slap" on SLR...that's only at real slow speeds and if you're doing time exposure, you can lock up the mirror. If they came up w/a solution for the cheaper camera, they should have built it in to the higher end model a year sooner; it wasn't exactly as complex as building the Hyperloop!
brianric
Veteran Member
I was at 17mm on the 12-35/2.8 at f/2.8 and 1/60 sec.Odd, brian. This shot is 1/100 with the 12-35 @ 25mm and no sign of SS whatsoever.
Here is another example -- a 100% grab from frame. Taken @ 16mm @ 1/80. No sign of SS at all as you can see -- and it would really show with the lines of contrast in this shot.
I wonder whether it can be focal length related too.
The mysteries of technology.
--
Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
http://rabaulpng.com/we-are-all-traveling-throug/i-waited-51-years-for-tavur.html
alcelc
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I'm sure that you will be even more disappointed by this latest pro dslr. D810 should be a clear leader to the class of GX8.
So close enough to the same settings, but I was on the GX7 and you the GX8. Weird!I was at 17mm on the 12-35/2.8 at f/2.8 and 1/60 sec.Odd, brian. This shot is 1/100 with the 12-35 @ 25mm and no sign of SS whatsoever.
Here is another example -- a 100% grab from frame. Taken @ 16mm @ 1/80. No sign of SS at all as you can see -- and it would really show with the lines of contrast in this shot.
I wonder whether it can be focal length related too.
The mysteries of technology.
--
Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
cameron2
Senior Member
The GX8 works very well with Olympus lenses. Balance is great with larger lenses in particular. (If you're thinking about the Oly 300mm, I'd suggest an Oly body to get the Oly dual IS.)
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cameron2
Senior Member
First: Nothing wrong with waiting a few months to see what the new EM1ii can do.
Between the GX8 and the GX85, I'd personally go with the GX8 (I have the GX7, too), but of course I wish the GX8 had all of the unique advantages that the GX85 has. I guess I need to wait, too ...
cameron2
Senior Member
It's not a 100% reproducible thing. It's not even a 10% reproducible thing. Often, if you shoot burst mode, you may find that one of the images in a burst is a little soft, for example (and strangely enough in this case, for me it's often the same one, like the 2nd or the 3rd in the burst).
I've shot many thousands of photos with the GX8. Very few show signs of shutter shock. For whatever reason, for me it exhibits less shutter shock than the GX7 did. The zooms -- and particularly zooms with OIS, and particularly light zooms -- tend to be the easiest lenses to reproduce the issue with (and I did test under fairly controlled conditions).
Regardless, it seems that Pany has figured shutter shock out now with the GX85, so hopefully we'll never have to even worry about this hypothetical / randomly-occurring issue again.
jimkahnw
Forum Enthusiast
Good to know the Oly lenses work well the Panny bodies. I use several Lumix lenses on my OMDs and them seem to work properly.
But... and the purpose of this thread, have you noticed any softness that you could attribute to shutter shock?
But... and the purpose of this thread, have you noticed any softness that you could attribute to shutter shock?
cameron2
Senior Member
I tested both the GX7 and the GX8 for shutter shock. (I posted about some of my experiments on this forum.)
I can't remember all of the details now, but I was able to find conditions in which I could see shutter shock, using a relatively well controlled environment (vibration damped surface, tripod, electronic release, comparing electronic shutter to mechanical shutter, different lenses and FLs, etc.)
Shutter shock basically creates a double image (or an image blurred along a particular vector of movement). Viewed at 400% or so, it is noticeable at the sub-pixel level, meaning that edges show different amounts of "anti-aliasing" when comparing a mechanical shutter versus an electronic shutter. (For example, crisp black lines of text in the photo with the electronic shutter will appear to be softer with the mechanical shutter, as if the fonts were anti-aliased.) The reason that I call that "sub-pixel level" is that the image is "shaken" less than 1 pixel, so the information that should be in one pixel actually shows up in 2 pixels that are next to each other.
However, with some lenses at some shutter speeds, the shutter shock can be much worse. This didn't happen often for me (even though I was trying to cause it!), but it's possible for the shake to be on the order of 3 or 4 pixels, at which point it becomes very noticeable viewed at 100% (or even scaled below 100%!), which is what the big complaint is about.
The problem is that I can't predict whether it will happen for you or not, because it seems to be very dependent on the way that someone holds the camera and how they take pictures. (I don't think I ever got the camera to shake that much on a tripod, for example, even though I took many, many frames!)
It seems like your chances of ever noticing shutter shock with the GX8 should be low, but the phenomenon definitely exists, and it's shown up in photos taken by very experienced photographers (including in some reviews!), so skill and experience are not necessarily protection against it.
That said, I am 99% sure from looking at my photos over the years that (for me) the GX8 is a big improvement over the GX7, because once I knew what to look for, I did find more evidence of shutter shock with the GX7, and basically never see it in real world use with the GX8.
BUT one person's results do not have any statistical significance, so no matter how certain I am of any of this, it's simply too small a sample set to mean anything.
One other thing: I only rarely use zooms on the GX8, and my "light lenses" (like the kit zooms) are mainly used with a GF7 (probably using electronic shutter, too), so my lens selection on the GX8 may have dramatically decreased the chance that I would see shutter shock in my photos. (Yet another reason that you should discount my findings.)
jimkahnw
Forum Enthusiast
Could the randomness and of your results for the shutter shock be attributed to image stabilization in the lens or body? During your experiments was image stabilization active or disabled? On the GX8 can lens IS be disabled? If so, how might that affect results?
cameron2
Senior Member
Good question. IBIS and OIS were two variables that I controlled for (shooting with each combination of on/off with both mechanical and electronic shutter). They turned out to be non-correlating with shutter shock in my results (i.e. no obvious trend with any of the IS combinations that overrode the electronic shutter vs. mechanical shutter trend), so after eliminating them as causal factors, I think that I left all IS settings off for the remainder of the test (which is what I'd normally do when shooting on a tripod anyway).
jimkahnw
Forum Enthusiast
Hmmmm. No consensus in this thread. I'm as conflicted now as before. Lens selection seems to affect shutter shock in the GX8 and other cameras. Two weeks ago I took delivery on a Lumix 12-60 and I'm using it on EM1 and EM10Mk2. I've seen no evidence of shutter shock on over 400 images--though the EM1 is set to Anti-Shock. Could the problem be related to variations in individual units, as we see with lens quality?
Here're samples. No evidence of shutter shock.
ISO800, processed with DxO 11 with EM10Mk2, Lumix 12-60. Tripod, IS off.
100 percent crop
ISO800, processed with DxO 11 with EM10Mk2, Lumix 12-60. Tripod, IS off
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JimK
Here're samples. No evidence of shutter shock.
ISO800, processed with DxO 11 with EM10Mk2, Lumix 12-60. Tripod, IS off.
100 percent crop
ISO800, processed with DxO 11 with EM10Mk2, Lumix 12-60. Tripod, IS off
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JimK
jeffharris
Forum Pro
Like I keep saying. It's more related to lens construction and how lighter lenses react to certain shutter mechanisms. The GX1's shutter comes to mind. The silent shutter solves the problem.
How are you liking the 12-60mm? It seems like it could be a good compromise between the 14-140mm II superzoom and 12-35/40mm f2.8 zooms. The 12mm end is so much more flexible than14mm.
jimkahnw
Forum Enthusiast
Love the focal length range, love the compactness and weight. Wish it were f/2.8 constant or f/2.8-4 like the new Nikon 16-80: same range. When I shot Nikon, I used the 16-85 on tens of thousands of images. A real lazy man's traveling lens. Great from architecture to head shots. Same for the Lumix 12-60. Seems killer sharp, too, even wide open through out the range. No barrel and pincushion distortion that I can see. I think I got a good copy, though the zoom action has a little rough spot--but I'll keep it because it's sharp. And, just a little CA that ACR/LR easily removed.
Does this cover it?
Does this cover it?
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