Pentax K30 RAW shooting - sRGB or AdobeRGB?

Hello guys,

In my Pentax K30, there are two options when setting RAW file shooting, I can chose between sRGB or AdobeRGB. Which one do you use the most and why? Thanks.
sRGB is the industry standard across all computer screens and printers, and for amateur print labs.

If you shoot in sRGB, you wil get comparable colours on any screen or print, provided the computer screen is correctly calibrated.

Adobe RGB is a more advanced standard, which can offer more subtle colours and increased colour range, but these cannot be displayed on most computer screens and can only be printed by professional high grade laboratories. Thus this setting must be avoided for amateur photography.

You must set your camera on sRGB. this information can be checked in the user's manual page 142.

As you ask about a K30, I understand you probably bought it second hand and thus didnt get a user's manual. You can download it from Ricoh-Imaging website:


You can also download users manual in other languages from your country dedicated Ricoh Imaging website.

It is also worth to check if the latest firmware has been installed in your K30, as it will offer improved handling of recent lenses:

 
I recommand you read thoroughly the user's manual, as the K30 has a lot of useful features, some of which you may not discover by yourself.

It is also customizable to your taste, and these custom setting can dramaticaly change the output;

I suggest you read the in-depth review here in DPR (a good introduction to handling the camera and lots of useful tips):

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentax-k-30

--
Tatouzou,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/70066783@N06/
 
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Hello guys,

In my Pentax K30, there are two options when setting RAW file shooting, I can chose between sRGB or AdobeRGB. Which one do you use the most and why? Thanks
Only use sRGB It's what all computers and printers default to and output in any other colorspace only causes problems

Adobe RGB is not designed for photography but for graphic arts, so it has a wider colour gamut, but because it has he same number of colours it has bigger steps between them. Unless you are supplying images to someone who expressly asks for Adobe RGB don't use it.
 
AdobeRGB, as mentioned earlier posters, has a larger colour space than sRGB so is therefore better, right ?

Well, I tried it and frankly unless your whole work process is geared to show the difference, it's pointless. I would even go as far as to say that even with a monitor that can show the extra colour, most of us wouldn't be able to see it.

Also, I liked my images to be name "IMGxxxx". When using Adobe RGB your files end up being called "_IGPxxxx" - Totally personal, but I didn't like that, and there was no way to change it within the camera.

Finally, our K-30's writes 12 bit raw (dng's) so is it really useful, I don't know and will let others answer that

Regards,

Michael.
 
So it does not matter which one you choose. You can leave that decision until the output stage. Use the widest possible color space while doing PP then choose the appropriate color space depending on output e.g. sRGB for web, AdobeRGB for printing. LR uses a variant of the ProPhoto color space for RAW conversion work.
 
AdobeRGB, as mentioned earlier posters, has a larger colour space than sRGB so is therefore better, right ?

Well, I tried it and frankly unless your whole work process is geared to show the difference, it's pointless. I would even go as far as to say that even with a monitor that can show the extra colour, most of us wouldn't be able to see it.
I wonder if that's because most natural images don't contain anything outside of the sRGB gamut? It's easy to create such an image artificially, or to enhance your image with an editor to contain such colors, but I don't know how likely they are to come about straight out of the camera. If anybody has a good example I'd love to see it.

If you have an end-to-end color managed workflow, and work at more than 8 bits per color channel, then go ahead and work in the widest color space you can because it can't hurt. The problem comes when you have one step outside of that workflow, and then staying with sRGB is the most likely way to stay out of trouble.
Also, I liked my images to be name "IMGxxxx". When using Adobe RGB your files end up being called "_IGPxxxx" - Totally personal, but I didn't like that, and there was no way to change it within the camera.

Finally, our K-30's writes 12 bit raw (dng's) so is it really useful, I don't know and will let others answer that
The difference between 12 bits and 14 bits will only be noticeable in the shadows, because of the gamma curve that is applied to get into a viewable color space. I don't know how likely you are to see the difference between sRGB and Adobe RGB for that.
 
Hello guys,

In my Pentax K30, there are two options when setting RAW file shooting, I can chose between sRGB or AdobeRGB. Which one do you use the most and why? Thanks.
Such settings only affect the JPEG, not the raw (raw is raw).

Now IF you're capturing a JPEG, keep this in mind: you can produce an Adobe RGB (1998) JPEG and convert it to sRGB. You can't go the other way. Just as you can start with a pint of water and pour that into a gallon container but not the other way around.

This might help get your head around color spaces and color gamut:

Everything you thought you wanted to know about color gamut

A pretty exhaustive 37 minute video examining the color gamut of RGB working spaces, images and output color spaces. All plotted in 2D and 3D to illustrate color gamut.

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/ColorGamut.mov

Low Res (YouTube):
 
Hello guys,

In my Pentax K30, there are two options when setting RAW file shooting, I can chose between sRGB or AdobeRGB. Which one do you use the most and why? Thanks.
sRGB is the industry standard across all computer screens and printers, and for amateur print labs.
No, it's not. There's no such thing as an sRGB printer. There's only one sRGB device; an emissive display.

sRGB is ideal for one use; posting to the web and mobile devices. It's sub optional for output to print; every printer gamut I've ever measured is larger somewhere in color space than sRGB.

Do you want to clip colors you can capture and output?

Red plot: sRGB. Colors that would clip that could be output if you didn't use sRGB!

Red plot: sRGB. Colors that would clip that could be output if you didn't use sRGB!

The benefits of wide gamut working spaces on printed output:

This three part, 32 minute video covers why a wide gamut RGB working space like ProPhoto RGB can produce superior quality output to print.

Part 1 discusses how the supplied Gamut Test File was created and shows two prints output to an Epson 3880 using ProPhoto RGB and sRGB, how the deficiencies of sRGB gamut affects final output quality. Part 1 discusses what to look for on your own prints in terms of better color output. It also covers Photoshop’s Assign Profile command and how wide gamut spaces mishandled produce dull or over saturated colors due to user error.

Part 2 goes into detail about how to print two versions of the properly converted Gamut Test File file in Photoshop using Photoshop’s Print command to correctly setup the test files for output. It covers the Convert to Profile command for preparing test files for output to a lab.

Part 3 goes into color theory and illustrates why a wide gamut space produces not only move vibrant and saturated color but detail and color separation compared to a small gamut working space like sRGB.

High Resolution Video: http://digitaldog.net/files/WideGamutPrintVideo.mov

Low Resolution (YouTube):

--
Andrew Rodney
Author: Color Management for Photographers
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net
 
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So it does not matter which one you choose. You can leave that decision until the output stage. Use the widest possible color space while doing PP then choose the appropriate color space depending on output e.g. sRGB for web, AdobeRGB for printing. LR uses a variant of the ProPhoto color space for RAW conversion work.
Yeah! Someone who actually understands the topic. :-)
 
Hello guys,

In my Pentax K30, there are two options when setting RAW file shooting, I can chose between sRGB or AdobeRGB. Which one do you use the most and why? Thanks.
Such settings only affect the JPEG, not the raw (raw is raw).

Now IF you're capturing a JPEG, keep this in mind: you can produce an Adobe RGB (1998) JPEG and convert it to sRGB. You can't go the other way. Just as you can start with a pint of water and pour that into a gallon container but not the other way around.
What you say is absolutely true. But when picking a color space for JPEG, there's one more thing to consider. Each of the red, green, and blue primaries will be divided up into 256 different values. In order to provide an overall greater range, the distance between those values must be larger. The difference might not be visible if you're working in one color space end-to-end, but if you convert from one to the other you might get a mismatch where the levels don't line up precisely. I'd expect this to be visible as banding in e.g. clear blue skies.

If you're going to be producing sRGB output, I'd recommend working in sRGB all the way through. All this changes if you're starting from RAW, since you're no longer restricted to 8 bits.
 
Hello guys,

In my Pentax K30, there are two options when setting RAW file shooting, I can chose between sRGB or AdobeRGB. Which one do you use the most and why? Thanks.
Such settings only affect the JPEG, not the raw (raw is raw).

Now IF you're capturing a JPEG, keep this in mind: you can produce an Adobe RGB (1998) JPEG and convert it to sRGB. You can't go the other way. Just as you can start with a pint of water and pour that into a gallon container but not the other way around.
What you say is absolutely true. But when picking a color space for JPEG, there's one more thing to consider. Each of the red, green, and blue primaries will be divided up into 256 different values. In order to provide an overall greater range, the distance between those values must be larger.
The colorimetric distance between device values is wider as the color gamut gets larger indeed. But the conversion to either sRGB or Adobe RGB comes from the raw data in high bit. It's moot. Further edit that JPEG? Not a great idea.
The difference might not be visible if you're working in one color space end-to-end, but if you convert from one to the other you might get a mismatch where the levels don't line up precisely.
Again, if you're referring from raw (which every such camera initially creates) to the JPEG, it's moot. It's high bit data converted to this JPEG. It's wide gamut data at some point in the process.

IOW, if you shoot and kept the raw, then converted to sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998), the results are the same when you ask for a JPEG alone as far as that JPEG is concerned. There's still raw in the process, someone just didn't ask it saved. It is directly converted in either color space in the camera, akin to doing this outside the camera.

The camera doesn't produce sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998); those are based on emissive displays. The camera does always produce raw. That's where those two color spaces come from within the camera processing.
I'd expect this to be visible as banding in e.g. clear blue skies.
There shouldn't be due to the color space gamut per se. A huge amount of data loss is the JPEG itself. The JPEG is produced from raw data! How well it's rendered, that's a different story.

The JPEG engine that processes the raw massively clips and compresses highlights. We often don't when editing the raw. This compression can clump Mid-tones as much as 1 stop while compressing shadow details! People incorrectly state that raw has more highlight data but the fact is, the DR data captured is the attribute of the capture system; it's all there in the raw but maybe not in a camera proceed JPEG.
A raw capture that's 10 or 11 stops of dynamic range can be compressed to 7 stops from this JPEG processing which is a significant amount of data loss! So when we hear people state that a raw has more DR than a JPEG, it's due to the poor rendering or handling of the data. The rendering of this data and the reduction of dynamic range is from the JPEG engine that isn't handling the DR data that does exists as well as we can from the raw! Another reason to capture and render the raw data, assuming you care about how the image is rendered!
If you're going to be producing sRGB output, I'd recommend working in sRGB all the way through.
Well sure, if your only need is output to the web and mobile devices.
All this changes if you're starting from RAW, since you're no longer restricted to 8 bits.
Or color space.

--
Andrew Rodney
Author: Color Management for Photographers
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net
 
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Sorry, we're talking across each other. I didn't make it clear enough - my comments were intended for working with JPEG straight out of the camera, not RAW. They also apply if there's a processing step that reduces down to 8 bits, but that's unlikely in a modern workflow.
 
Sorry, we're talking across each other. I didn't make it clear enough - my comments were intended for working with JPEG straight out of the camera, not RAW. They also apply if there's a processing step that reduces down to 8 bits, but that's unlikely in a modern workflow.
Mark, the JPEG out of the camera comes from raw data. That's all the camera can produce initially, from the CFA. The raw is processed to create that in-camera JPEG. From high bit data. To one of two possible color spaces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

There are no capture devices or printers that create either sRGB or any other RGB working space; those are based on emissive displays. Raw can be converted to sRGB!

--
Andrew Rodney
Author: Color Management for Photographers
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net
 
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Sorry, we're talking across each other. I didn't make it clear enough - my comments were intended for working with JPEG straight out of the camera, not RAW. They also apply if there's a processing step that reduces down to 8 bits, but that's unlikely in a modern workflow.
Mark, the JPEG out of the camera comes from raw data. That's all the camera can produce initially, from the CFA. The raw is processed to create that in-camera JPEG. From high bit data. To one of two possible color spaces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
Yes, I realize all that. But it's a moot point if you haven't set the camera to save the RAW, because the in-camera conversion to JPEG loses information. Different color spaces incur the loss in different areas, but there will be a loss.

I still contend that if all you have is the JPEG, and your output is intended to be sRGB, you're better off working with a sRGB JPEG than starting with an Adobe RGB JPEG and converting it to sRGB later.
 
One moral is never throw away your raw: as you become a better photographer and better at post-processing, you will gnash your teeth one day if all you have left is .jpgs in a smaller colour-space.

Myself, I use AdobeRGB from start to finish, shooting, monitor, .tifs from raw, printing, the lot. I can make a less subtle little .jpg any time.

--
'To see, not with, but through the eye.' [William Blake]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22905474@N06/
 
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I still contend that if all you have is the JPEG, and your output is intended to be sRGB, you're better off working with a sRGB JPEG than starting with an Adobe RGB JPEG and converting it to sRGB later.
Absolutely. If your output is 128 kbps bitrate, do not even think of recording and editing at 320 kbps.

Wait, something is wrong here... LOL
 
For saturated colours sRGB tends to clip earlier than AdobeRGB, so if one is using histograms in the camera, or blinkies for overexposure warning, setting camera to AdobeRGB is a safer choice, as the histogram and blinkies are derived from JPEG.
 

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