Steve McCurry: "How do you feel about adjusting your pictures?"

But despite that, we still expect that when all is said and done, what's in the picture is what was in front of the lens.
Why? Why do particularly photographers expect that? I could imagine that non-photographers could think that way.

But as photographers we bl.... well should know that whats in the picture can be quite different from what was in front of the camera.
Oh sure, we know that things could be manipulated and with mounting evidence, we're going to learn to expect that things are manipulated and that's going to be very sad, because it's going to take away one of the best things about photography ... the context we give images by thinking that what's in the image must have been present in front of the lens.
Why do we do that?

We know very well that when a journalist reports a story he does so with a bias. He will leave things out he considers unimportant, he will emphasise things he considers important.

Why do we impart this particular purity to photographic images?
It will be a sad day for photography when this becomes the norm, because IMO, most photographs just aren't that good if you remove the connection to the real world. Most of the images we hold up as classics would be forgettable illustrations if, for all we know, they were created in Photoshop.
How about this? Heavily processed. No removing or adding things, true. But all distorted to show something else than what was in front of the camera.
When I say "we still expect that", maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but photographs still carry that implication. Despite all the examples of manipulation I've seen, I don't automatically look at a photograph and assume that objects in it were added (or removed).
How about objects that were removed from the frame by choosing a particular view? How do you know that there isn't a dead cat lying just outside of the frame?

And is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?

Lots of questions - I know :-)

I am not saying right or wrong - but I do wonder where that purity aspect really does come from?

Regards, Mike
 
How about objects that were removed from the frame by choosing a particular view? How do you know that there isn't a dead cat lying just outside of the frame?

And is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
Good point. I would add, the "removal" of people in a scene through long exposure, whether intentional or as 'casualty of the process'.

They were in that plaza, just as much as the buildings. It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.

--
"I'm just here for contrast."
 
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...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
 
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I think its a slippery slope to mediocrity to dismiss adjusting your image as heretical.

What we feel think and experience when making an image is filters through our brain. We will see and feel often whats not for lack of better word the real world as seen by the lens, When I precess my images I try to get what I was feeling as opposed to just show whats in front of the camera.

Photography is a process which begins before we even go out to shoot and in a real sense never ends as there are an infinite photographs possibilities in front of you when shooting there is also an infinite number of possibilities when processing. Exploring further than a simple conversion will more often than not get us closer to what we were thinking feeling and experiencing at the moment we release the shutter.
 
...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
Then a random person who walks in and out of frame in a long exposure is destroying the essence of photojournalism, by not being visible at the point where the shutter was open. Fine by me.
 
We know very well that when a journalist reports a story he does so with a bias. He will leave things out he considers unimportant, he will emphasise things he considers important.

Why do we impart this particular purity to photographic images?
There's no purity. A friend showed me a news video shot in his hometown in which the reported says "I'm in downtown Sherman and this is about all there is to downtown" with nothing behind him but a house. My friend pointed out that just to the left is the IGA grocery store. That's misleading, primarily in the words he stated alongside the image, but it still shows something that really exists and I can look at it and enjoy it more knowing that it's showing me a place on this planet that really exists at this time. Purity is a fool's errand. But an image with stuff arbitrarily added or removed by the photographer is just something I have no interest in looking at. We should expect that photojournalists don't create scenes that don't reflect what was in front of the lens. We see differently than the sensor sees, so there's leeway and I won't get into how HDR can be used to change the mood of a shot, but certainly adding or removing objects from the image changes the physical reality. Outside of photojournalism, it's up to us to determine what kind of manipulation matters to us and then figure out who's doing photography we want to look at.
It will be a sad day for photography when this becomes the norm, because IMO, most photographs just aren't that good if you remove the connection to the real world. Most of the images we hold up as classics would be forgettable illustrations if, for all we know, they were created in Photoshop.
How about this? Heavily processed. No removing or adding things, true. But all distorted to show something else than what was in front of the camera.
I'm far from a purist. Those are all mild edits. Any two people will see a scene differently; different cameras, films, sensors, lenses see it differently, paper portrays a fraction of the range of brightness that was present. Reality is a fool's errand. But we can look at a picture of a man stepping into a puddle and the success of that photo depends wholely on that fact. The cropping helps the composition, but turn that water into a highly reflective tile and you might end up with virtually the same composition (same reflections) but a very different picture. We appreciate this photo because of the moment in time it captures, not because it presents a 2-dimensional collection of shapes in shades of gray. If we were to learn that it was faked
How about objects that were removed from the frame by choosing a particular view? How do you know that there isn't a dead cat lying just outside of the frame?
I don't care - or, rather, I get to wonder what might be just outside the frame. I don't mind that both realities exist :) It doesn't bother me that I don't get the whole story, or that I might even be fooled into the wrong story. That's part of the power of photography; it's ability to show us a selective view of the world at a moment of time. It's kind of like the difference between not being told the whole truth and being lied to. Think of a movie where you're surprised by a twist at the end. If it's a really well done movie, with an intelligent plot, and the clues were there if you go back and look for them, you love it. If it's really contrived, you aren't so satisfied. And if the writer had to purposely deceive you along the way to surprise you, you feel ripped off.
And is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It is for those of us whose appreciation of photographs is based on their connection to the real world. I'm not normally a fan of abstracts, but I picked up a book called "Color Correction" by Ernst Haas a couple years ago, and there are many abstracts in it that I like a lot, due to a combination of a fascinating composition and trying to puzzle together just what, exactly was in front of the camera. If these were by a recent photographer and I were to learn that they were created by layers in photoshop, that wonder would be gone.

Like I said, I'm far from a purist. I like Mark Tucker's portraits in which he uses textured backgrounds based on other objects he's photographed in the past. It's obvious and I can look at the images with that knowledge in mind and appreciate them with that context.
I am not saying right or wrong - but I do wonder where that purity aspect really does come from?
It's not purity so much as a connection to the real world adding to my appreciation of the photo.
 
...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
Then a random person who walks in and out of frame in a long exposure is destroying the essence of photojournalism, by not being visible at the point where the shutter was open. Fine by me.
If Steve McCurry claimed to be nothing other than an artist, no one would expect him to be a reporter. But he claims to be a reporter and that creates expectations, which he is obligated to honor.
 
...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
Then a random person who walks in and out of frame in a long exposure is destroying the essence of photojournalism, by not being visible at the point where the shutter was open. Fine by me.
If Steve McCurry claimed to be nothing other than an artist, no one would expect him to be a reporter. But he claims to be a reporter and that creates expectations, which he is obligated to honor.
Overwrought emotional hand-wringing over Steve's pixels isn't time well spent for my photos. I was simply remarking on Mike CH's good point upthread. I'mma go shoot some pictures now.
 
...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
Then a random person who walks in and out of frame in a long exposure is destroying the essence of photojournalism, by not being visible at the point where the shutter was open. Fine by me.
If Steve McCurry claimed to be nothing other than an artist, no one would expect him to be a reporter. But he claims to be a reporter and that creates expectations, which he is obligated to honor.
Overwrought emotional hand-wringing over Steve's pixels isn't time well spent for my photos. I was simply remarking on Mike CH's good point upthread. I'mma go shoot some pictures now.
I hope you're not just saying that "to create a certain impression."
 
...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
Then a random person who walks in and out of frame in a long exposure is destroying the essence of photojournalism, by not being visible at the point where the shutter was open. Fine by me.
If Steve McCurry claimed to be nothing other than an artist, no one would expect him to be a reporter. But he claims to be a reporter and that creates expectations, which he is obligated to honor.
Have you ever met a reporter without a bias?

Regards, Mike
 
I find this. . . anger at McCurry odd.
I think that, given his background (photojournalism) - and even given quotes like the one the OP mentions, people take McCurry's photographs to represent reality. They look at the photo of the rickshaw and believe that such quaint scenes really exist.
A scene like that can exist in all its quaintness, but reality tends to be messy. The cloning out of parts of the scene tries to force it in a model, to impose compositional rules and a personal style. Maybe I've seen too much of it, And some of the cloning is -once you realise that it is being done- unrealistic (the white bale sort of suspended in mid-air)
Sure, lighting might have been different; if I saw it with my eyes or you with yours, it might have looked a little different,
I've seen [a little of] India in the monsoon and the [relatively] untouched versions of the men on the bike shot far better represents what I remember that the version with higher contrast and saturation that is the current official version.
forget about those arguments over whether a photograph can represent reality. And then, McCurry has been known to pose subjects - it's always entirely possible that he paid these people to ride down the street for him to take the shot.
In this case, I don't think so, mainly because he cloned out the one person directly looking at the camera. That BTW is also an interesting aspect of this style of photography: the pretense that the photographer is not there. with the camera
But despite that, we still expect that when all is said and done, what's in the picture is what was in front of the lens.

Even if he only edits to this extent for "fine art" purposes (and not photojournalism) it makes a huge difference in viewing, at least for me. Not too many photos stand entirely on their own, as two dimensional objects showing interesting designs. Some, but not most, and certainly not McCurry's. What makes most photographs interesting is their connection to the real world - the idea in the back of your mind that this wasn't created; it existed. A painting can be a complete fabrication - maybe the scene existed, maybe it didn't. In Photoshop, you can create a total fabrication. But if you're showing a photograph, you're showing something that had to exist in front of the camera. If you take that away, the photograph becomes a lot less interesting. What makes H-C-B's famous photos of the man about to step into the puddle so great is the tension, the timing. Take the real world meaning of that away and as a two dimensional work of art, it's not remotely interesting.

McCurry's photos were always so fascinating because they purported to show me things that I've never seen and things that fascinate me and that make me happy to live in a world so full of wonder. When that's gone, they're just pretty pictures and not that interesting..
I think some of the anger comes from disappointment.
In short, I think the problem is that McCurry's reputation is built on an assumption that he's showing pictures of exotic scenes that really do exist and we're now finding out that he's showing pictures of mundane scenes modified to look exotic. Not that it's wrong, but knowing it makes his work a lot less impressive.
Once you've seen these things, you can no longer unsee them: the magic is gone
 
Thanks for this timely addition to the current discussion about this guy and his recent fall from grace.

The interview portrays him as an honest person who has the proper respect for reality which we expect from a photojournalist.

For me, it provides the context for a full and satisfying disclosure of what went wrong. "If you're the person you appear to be, then how could this possibly happen?"

And if he is indeed the person he appears to be, he will give a complete account.
Well put.
 
...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
Then a random person who walks in and out of frame in a long exposure is destroying the essence of photojournalism, by not being visible at the point where the shutter was open. Fine by me.
If Steve McCurry claimed to be nothing other than an artist, no one would expect him to be a reporter. But he claims to be a reporter and that creates expectations, which he is obligated to honor.
Have you ever met a reporter without a bias?
There's a difference between bias and making it up. We know reporters are biased, but we don't expect them to completely invent things. We allow artists to do the latter, but not reporters.
 
Found this 2015 interview of Steve McCurry where he's asked, "How do you feel about adjusting your pictures?" His response? "I believe that pictures should exactly reflect what you saw and experienced when you took the picture."

Yup!

Here's the video (this conversation from 7:00 - 7:32):

No problem editing your photos to reflect the subjective reality that prompted you to take the photo in the first place. The problem I have with it all is that if other people are editing the photos, then they should also be given credit for the photo. In other words, if the final photo was a team effort, the team should be given credit.

Now, some might take this to an extreme, saying something like, "If an aide carried your equipment which you might not have carried if you had to carry everything by yourself, should not your 'photo caddy' also be given credit?" I would argue, no, that is not necessary.

But I would argue that the people editing your photo should be given credit if the editing is creative in nature and not merely global "developing".

Just my opinion, of course, keeping in mind that you get what you pay for, and sometimes, not even that. ;-)
 
...the people editing your photo should be given credit if the editing is creative in nature and not merely global "developing".

...you get what you pay for...
I think this is one of his editors:



by Steve McCurry
by Steve McCurry
 
Found this 2015 interview of Steve McCurry where he's asked, "How do you feel about adjusting your pictures?" His response? "I believe that pictures should exactly reflect what you saw and experienced when you took the picture."

Yup!

Here's the video (this conversation from 7:00 - 7:32):

No problem editing your photos to reflect the subjective reality that prompted you to take the photo in the first place. The problem I have with it all is that if other people are editing the photos, then they should also be given credit for the photo. In other words, if the final photo was a team effort, the team should be given credit.

Now, some might take this to an extreme, saying something like, "If an aide carried your equipment which you might not have carried if you had to carry everything by yourself, should not your 'photo caddy' also be given credit?" I would argue, no, that is not necessary.

But I would argue that the people editing your photo should be given credit if the editing is creative in nature and not merely global "developing".

Just my opinion, of course, keeping in mind that you get what you pay for, and sometimes, not even that. ;-)
I agree. Some photographers do include editing credits.
 
...is reframing to create a certain impression really that different from removing something after the fact?
It wasn't PP removal, but significant alteration/enhancement/editing all the same, just a different time in the overall scheme.
All true and well, but the photojournalism bottom line remains "This is what was in the shot when I took it."
Then a random person who walks in and out of frame in a long exposure is destroying the essence of photojournalism, by not being visible at the point where the shutter was open. Fine by me.
If Steve McCurry claimed to be nothing other than an artist, no one would expect him to be a reporter. But he claims to be a reporter and that creates expectations, which he is obligated to honor.
Depends on the assignment. Decent investigation would reveal that the photos in question were peraonal or non-reportage images. There is no rule that a photographer known as a PJ must only produce PJ work: except maybe in the minds of snobbish and meddlesome purists.
 
Some people are color blind, which rules out all color photography. There is value in "realism" as well as "art". I usually prefer realism, but sometimes i want a certain look, like B&W. Its all subjective, there is no right or wrong.

One of my favorite photos i have taken. Not how i saw it with my eyes, owell.



2664d7ba94d24b3280cb0a9e65a5e2ef.jpg



--
"You taught me hate, I"ll teach you fear", - Lamb of God, Break You.
 
That's ironic, coming from McCurry. Isn't he widely considered to be an arranger/poser of scenes? Isn't that just as bad, or worse, than cloning/cleanup, when you market yourself as a photojournalist?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/magazine/a-too-perfect-picture.html?_r=0
"The pictures are staged or shot to look as if they were." TEJU COLE

Is the author reporting this as a fact, or merely expressing an opinion?

Here's an alternate view: In Defense of Steve McCurry

This is just another opinion, of course.
 

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