E
eric
Guest
thats all good but has nothing to do with this peticular discussiond though.
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Dakota "Disposable" Camera Mini Review (Part 1: The Dissection)
- Thread starter andy888
- Start date
Any information about the connector on the camera side or the port on the fuju frontier digital minilab would be very helpful 
E
eric
Guest
dude. that really helps!! at least now i can get some info on the labs computer end.
Wayne Larmon
Forum Pro
Phil's own lead summary mentions 2 megapixel, but the press release doesn't say anything about the pixel count
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0307/03073101dakotadigital.asp
But I'm a bit confused. It looks like Phil wrote both the first paragraph that starts "Ritz Camera has announced that....", because this paragraph contains "I feel the majority of users will still...." This sounds like Phil wrote this paragraph, doesn't it? But then he added a second paragraphs in green right below it, commenting on the paragraph he just wrote. It is only the first paragraph that was (presumably) written by Phil that mentions 2 megapixels.
In the PCWord article that was mentioned earlier in the thread:
"The camera has 12MB of internal memory, Simon Fleming-Wood, Pure Digital's vice president of marketing says. He could not disclose the camera's image resolution."
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111841,00.asp
Andy888's pictures don't display any image sensor (presumably because it is under the lens assembly.)
http://frutsel.terrainhost.com/frutselapp/dump/dakota/index.htm
Now, I really don't want to call Phil's words into question, but I'd like to see confirmation that this is indeed a 2 megapixel camera.
Wayne Larmo
For those of you that want to try hacking into this unit, I have figured out the pinouts. Its basically a USB device built around the popular Sunplus SPCA504 camera chip using in webcams and some cheap still cameras. This is a 1.3Mpixel device, not 2 like the review states. The Sunplus chip has a USB interface.
Pinouts as follows:
10 - Ground (black wire in USB cable)
9 - Data (white wire in USB cable)
8 - Data (green wire in USB cable)
7 - Ground
6 - +5V from USB (red wire in USB cable)
5 - ?
4 - ?
3 - ?
2 - Ground
1 - ?
You can cut open a USB cable and solder the wires directly to the PCB. When you connect it to a PC, the display on the camera changes to "PC". You don't need to connect the batteries - it takes power from USB.
Windows will ask for drivers for this device, but of course there aren't any.
There are drivers on the net for other cameras based on this chipset, and you will need to modify the INF files to get the drivers to load. The USB device/product ID for this device is FFFF. I have loaded drivers sucessfully, but any not been able to use the reader application to read images off it. I would guess that these guys have made some special commands for this camera to enable transfers.
One of the pins (can't remember which of 3, 4 or 5) is the "Delete" button. Grounding it causes the delete function to operate. Not sure yet what the others do (if anything).
Good luck!
Pinouts as follows:
10 - Ground (black wire in USB cable)
9 - Data (white wire in USB cable)
8 - Data (green wire in USB cable)
7 - Ground
6 - +5V from USB (red wire in USB cable)
5 - ?
4 - ?
3 - ?
2 - Ground
1 - ?
You can cut open a USB cable and solder the wires directly to the PCB. When you connect it to a PC, the display on the camera changes to "PC". You don't need to connect the batteries - it takes power from USB.
Windows will ask for drivers for this device, but of course there aren't any.
There are drivers on the net for other cameras based on this chipset, and you will need to modify the INF files to get the drivers to load. The USB device/product ID for this device is FFFF. I have loaded drivers sucessfully, but any not been able to use the reader application to read images off it. I would guess that these guys have made some special commands for this camera to enable transfers.
One of the pins (can't remember which of 3, 4 or 5) is the "Delete" button. Grounding it causes the delete function to operate. Not sure yet what the others do (if anything).
Good luck!
Capital Man
Senior Member
1.3 MP would cost a lot less to manufacture, and it would still provide good enough quality for a 4 x 6 print.
Looks like there's a linux driver for this chip (haven't tried, don't even have the camera yet, but will soon!)
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=144949
Here's a BIG question.... since the chip probably supports streaming video, could any of those pins be a video-out (or usb streaming video, however that works)??? Perhaps it's included as a good test of imaging functionality before re-issue. If it does streaming video, this could get seriously sweet.
--Ichabod
All that was, still is. What will be, always was.
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=144949
Here's a BIG question.... since the chip probably supports streaming video, could any of those pins be a video-out (or usb streaming video, however that works)??? Perhaps it's included as a good test of imaging functionality before re-issue. If it does streaming video, this could get seriously sweet.
--Ichabod
--
All that was, still is. What will be, always was.
Matt Considine
New member
Hi,
Do you have any code snippets you could share/point me towards that you have used to access the camera so far? I've got C and Pascal experience, but haven't done anything with a USB interface. If I can find these for sale, I'll take a shot at trying to program it...
Thanks,
Matt
Do you have any code snippets you could share/point me towards that you have used to access the camera so far? I've got C and Pascal experience, but haven't done anything with a USB interface. If I can find these for sale, I'll take a shot at trying to program it...
Thanks,
Matt
tcp1
Well-known member
I'm going to give this a try myself... you said you were able to modify the INF section; were you able to access any files on the camera, readable or not?
Kitsu
New member
I also work for Ritz, at a Frontier store that does print the digital disposables.
We have had a number of people buying them over the past week'ish, but I have yet to see any of them come back into the store.
As for the machine that reads them. It is a stand alone station with its own monitor that then drops the orders into the Frontier's print queue. There is then a double height 5 1/4" bay that accepts the cameras. They pull that little piece of tape off to uncover the connector, and just slide it into this port in the machine.
I tried to see if I could get into the computer (I think its runinng win2k, iirc), but no keyboard, and I was too lazy to find one.
Good luck trying to hack the system.
A
We have had a number of people buying them over the past week'ish, but I have yet to see any of them come back into the store.
As for the machine that reads them. It is a stand alone station with its own monitor that then drops the orders into the Frontier's print queue. There is then a double height 5 1/4" bay that accepts the cameras. They pull that little piece of tape off to uncover the connector, and just slide it into this port in the machine.
I tried to see if I could get into the computer (I think its runinng win2k, iirc), but no keyboard, and I was too lazy to find one.
Good luck trying to hack the system.
Travis Hayes
New member
Does the DMCA apply in this case, since you hold the copyright to the data you are trying to access?
Nathan Lewis
New member
Thanks for the instructions. I too was able to get it connect to the PC and drivers loaded (there are two, one for the video and one for the snapshots) without too much hassle. I mangled a 5.25" floppy cable connector and bent a few pins to line up with those on the camera so that I didn't have to physically alter the camera in any way. I also wasn't able to get any of the software (they are all based on the same thing with the same UI) to actually communicate with the camera. They all fail in slightly different ways, but nevertheless, fail. Let me know if you make any additional progress, and I'll do likewise.
I guess the next step is some sort of USB debugger...
I guess the next step is some sort of USB debugger...
Matt Considine
New member
Would it be possible for you to point out which drivers you got to load? I've got the "PC" message and have some output from SnooperPro. But I've had trouble getting the drivers recognized by Windows and ended up uninstalling them. I had thought the Aiptek material would help, but I can't get anywhere. Thanks for any pointers.
matt @ considiine . net
matt @ considiine . net
Bob Freeman
Forum Enthusiast
I've got three Nikon Coolpix digitals and frequently have one with me in the car but the day my first accident happens will probably be the day I have no means to record "evidence". Disposable cameras with film don't seem reliable in many months of intense heat in a closed car, especially in the southern climates, so this new concept may be ideal for that purpose. (...now to keep the batteries "fresh"!)
Bob Freeman, Tallahassee, FL
Bob Freeman, Tallahassee, FL
Nathan Lewis
New member
I got a couple different ones to work, but here's instructions for the Aiptek:
Download the PenCam SD driver:
http://www.aiptek.com/driverfiles/pencamsd.zip
Install it as normal, click Yes twice when asked to install a driver.
Now find the 3 .inf files it installed into \winnt\inf (or \windows\inf) by searching for the string "VID_04FC" or "PID_504B". There should be 3 files called oemX.inf where X is a number. Open all three files and change all the "VID_04FC&PID_504B" into "VID_04FC&PID_FFFF". This should occur at least once per file.
Now plug in the camera and let Windows search for the driver. It should find it without problem. It should install 2 drivers. One is for access to the pictures, the other is a video capture device for using the chipset as a web cam or something.
Now you can fire up the PenCam SD Manager program, and it will load and not balk at you until you try to do something.... Other drivers and applications have similar results (and procedures - just change the VID_XXXX&PID_XXXX to VID_04FC&PID_FFFF), but the apps may fail at slightly different points.
On a USB snooper you can see the driver load and send a few initialization packets and get responses. Same goes for the application - though the response must not be what the app is expecting, and/or the program isn't sending the right commands.
Download the PenCam SD driver:
http://www.aiptek.com/driverfiles/pencamsd.zip
Install it as normal, click Yes twice when asked to install a driver.
Now find the 3 .inf files it installed into \winnt\inf (or \windows\inf) by searching for the string "VID_04FC" or "PID_504B". There should be 3 files called oemX.inf where X is a number. Open all three files and change all the "VID_04FC&PID_504B" into "VID_04FC&PID_FFFF". This should occur at least once per file.
Now plug in the camera and let Windows search for the driver. It should find it without problem. It should install 2 drivers. One is for access to the pictures, the other is a video capture device for using the chipset as a web cam or something.
Now you can fire up the PenCam SD Manager program, and it will load and not balk at you until you try to do something.... Other drivers and applications have similar results (and procedures - just change the VID_XXXX&PID_XXXX to VID_04FC&PID_FFFF), but the apps may fail at slightly different points.
On a USB snooper you can see the driver load and send a few initialization packets and get responses. Same goes for the application - though the response must not be what the app is expecting, and/or the program isn't sending the right commands.
Matt Considine
New member
Thanks for that link. I had downloaded a different Aiptek package and didn't get anywhere. I also had a snooper program set up and got the dialogue going back and forth between the two (so at least I didn't fry the thing while soldering wires on!).
One thing I did notice was that I wasn't able to get "Del" to show up by grounding any of the remaining wires. I had taken a full complement of pictures, to the point where I had "0" remaining. So it looks like once you reach that point, "Del" can't get triggered? If I'm in error here, perhaps someone can correct me, as that would me I goofed something up.
Matt
One thing I did notice was that I wasn't able to get "Del" to show up by grounding any of the remaining wires. I had taken a full complement of pictures, to the point where I had "0" remaining. So it looks like once you reach that point, "Del" can't get triggered? If I'm in error here, perhaps someone can correct me, as that would me I goofed something up.
Matt
GothtinPowers
Senior Member
Any chance of posting some pics from that camera?
Other questions:
The camera runs on 2 AA batteries. Once the images are transferred
to flash, though, constant voltage would not be necessary.
There are actually two flash chips. One is a 1 megaBIT flash that
stores the bios/os/states?(pictures count, etc...) The other flash
chip appears to be an 8 megaBYTE chip that would store the images.
There is also an 8 megabyte SDRAM chip that would store each
individual image while it is being converted to jpg(?) or other
proprietary compressed filetype. More than likely, the OS would
also be running in the SDRAM as well.
andy
I was thinking the same thing, but since http://www.compgeeks.com hasI was intrigued by the discussion about this new single use digital
camera, and immediately thought about tearing one open and seeing
if I could figure out how it ticked. Sure, this may be difficult or
impossible due to encryption/obscurity/who knows what else, but
what’s 10 bucks?
digital cameras starting at $19.99 with USB connectors... don't
spend a lot of money trying this.
But it would be interesting to know how hackable it is...
Sheldon
--
'I take orders from no one except the photographers.'
– Harry S. Truman
You missed them. Here they are http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=5760263
Matt Considine
New member
I've loaded up the PenCam software and had a USB sniffer program running. I can't consistently replicate how I got the following, but perhaps it will be of help to someone :
USBSnoop 0.22 - Entering DriverEntry: DriverObject CB4B88D8
USBSnoopies::OnLoad()
USBSnoopies::Hello!
USBSnpys - somebody is saying hello to me.
USBSnpys - exchanging function pointers...
USBSnoop - Loaded for USB\VID_04FC&PID_FFFF&REV_0100
USBSnpys - DeviceArrival: DO: 0xd11512b8 on index 0
USBSnpys - ... HardwareID:
USBSnoop - Loaded for USB\VID_04FC&PID_FFFF&REV_0100&MI_01
USBSnpys - DeviceArrival: DO: 0xcfc5d508 on index 1
USBSnpys - ... HardwareID:
USBSnpys - DeviceRemoval of DO 0xcfc5d508 on index 1
F/W Version(2,0,0,5,2)
Product Descriptor
VC_SetQtable(ff,ffff,0,0)
VC_TurnOnGpioPower(ff,ffff,0,0)
VC_SetImageType_Length(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetPcCamStart_Length(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetPcCamStop(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetCamIdle(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetAeAwbFlag(0,0,0,0)
VC_TurnOffGpioPower(0,0,0,0)
VC_SizePcCamSize(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetAeBandingFlag(0,0,0,0)
VC_SyncDataTime(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetAwbMode(0,0,0,0)
VC_Brightness(0,0,0,0)
VC_Contrast(0,0,0,0)
VC_HueL(0,0,0,0)
VC_HueH(0,0,0,0)
VC_Saturation(0,0,0,0)
VC_Sharpness(0,0,0,0)
----------------------------
Current:2003,8,17,(17:51:57)
-> Check F/W idle OK. [VCwrite(21:00:00), Timeout(0)]
BurstWrite(0x0:0x0:0x39)
-----------
(CA5XXA) GUID=00000000,0000,0000,{00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00}
CA500CAM_UnInitialize
Anybody got any ideas?
Matt
USBSnoop 0.22 - Entering DriverEntry: DriverObject CB4B88D8
USBSnoopies::OnLoad()
USBSnoopies::Hello!
USBSnpys - somebody is saying hello to me.
USBSnpys - exchanging function pointers...
USBSnoop - Loaded for USB\VID_04FC&PID_FFFF&REV_0100
USBSnpys - DeviceArrival: DO: 0xd11512b8 on index 0
USBSnpys - ... HardwareID:
USBSnoop - Loaded for USB\VID_04FC&PID_FFFF&REV_0100&MI_01
USBSnpys - DeviceArrival: DO: 0xcfc5d508 on index 1
USBSnpys - ... HardwareID:
USBSnpys - DeviceRemoval of DO 0xcfc5d508 on index 1
F/W Version(2,0,0,5,2)
Product Descriptor
-----------
VC_SetQtable(ff,ffff,0,0)
VC_TurnOnGpioPower(ff,ffff,0,0)
VC_SetImageType_Length(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetPcCamStart_Length(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetPcCamStop(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetCamIdle(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetAeAwbFlag(0,0,0,0)
VC_TurnOffGpioPower(0,0,0,0)
VC_SizePcCamSize(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetAeBandingFlag(0,0,0,0)
VC_SyncDataTime(0,0,0,0)
VC_SetAwbMode(0,0,0,0)
VC_Brightness(0,0,0,0)
VC_Contrast(0,0,0,0)
VC_HueL(0,0,0,0)
VC_HueH(0,0,0,0)
VC_Saturation(0,0,0,0)
VC_Sharpness(0,0,0,0)
----------------------------
Current:2003,8,17,(17:51:57)
-> Check F/W idle OK. [VCwrite(21:00:00), Timeout(0)]
BurstWrite(0x0:0x0:0x39)
-----------
(CA5XXA) GUID=00000000,0000,0000,{00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00}
CA500CAM_UnInitialize
Anybody got any ideas?
Matt
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