Setting up a studio

musicalhell · Apr 22, 2016

Dear Members of DPReview,

Some introduction-like stuff (Skip able):

It has been a while since my last post (months I believe). In this time I have come to learn more about photography and am eager to progress further. To this end I am planning on focusing on two fields which I wish to explore, one being portraiture (primary interest) and the second being products (I would also like to explore some food photography).

I would like to create a studio space in my home and I kindly request the advice and guidance of the community with this regard. I would like to share a few things in short bulletin points:

I currently get paid for my photography (though not much), I would like to do what I can to raise my abilities.
My skills are still developing and my studio space will serve both as a space to learn and experiment as well as for some commercial activity (I hope).
I am from India and sadly the only internationally known strobe brand that I could find is Elinchrom, all the others are Chinese made strobes.
There is also a lack of quality modifiers and the like.
While my finances are limited they are not non-existent, still I would like to economize when and where possible.

Now to the reason for the topic:

I have a building in my compound that used to be a play home for children, I would like to make this into my studio for the foreseeable future. As stated above there aren't too many options when it comes to studio lighting and the modifiers are also rather limited.

I would like to hear from the members what they would do with such a space (for the intended purpose). What would you buy with regards to lights, modifiers, background cloth etc.

I will share with you some photographs of the location, the one strobe I already own and my possible options.

Location:

The area needs clearing and cleaning. The windows are facing north-south and are blocked by my home on one side and the compound wall on the other, thus there isn't too much natural light that can come in that way. The large door faces west. The main room is supplemented by a smaller room that could be turned into a function-able changing room if pressed and there is a small restroom.

The area seen here is the widest and tallest. There is a mezzanine which cuts the amount of height available for part of the room.

The stairs leading to the mezzanine as well as a view of how low the 'roof' is under it. Seen here are also back background stands and my strobe.

The mezzanine area which is currently our library space. The roof slants at a rather steep angle as it comes down towards the main doors.

My current lighting equipment:

Very cheap and basic Chinese strobe. 250 W/s, Has half and full power only, with a radio trigger attached and optical slave functions. Attached to it is my 130x50 soft box, apart from this I have a small shoot through umbrella and a normal reflector.

My options were between a Yongnuo 560 IV and the strobe (they cost the same). The strobe came with a light stand, the umbrella and reflector and hence at the time felt like a good value-for-money buy.

Some photographs with the strobe may been seen in my DPR gallery album titled 'Studio space'.

My future options:

Here are links to the strobe brands I could find, please let me know what kind of set up you would build with the given links.

http://www.soniaphoto.com/products.htm

Info: Cheaper of the two brand but not by much, they claim to use the Elinchrom speed ring. Compared to the second brand listed below the differences seem to be:

Most if not all strobes only have two output levels (half and full).
Very few accessories, most are double diffusion.

http://photopro.in/product_list.php?alias=a-studio-flash-lights

Info: Photopro seems to have a larger range of lights and they have a very affordable 125 W/s strobe that does down to 1/4 power. They have up to 3 diffusion material, or so they say on their website, in the modifiers. They seem to also have a wider range of modifiers.

125 W/s strobe with output 1/1-1/4

I am leaning towards the 125 W/s strobes since I find myself rarely, if ever, using full power on my current 250 W/s strobe. Also given the rather limited space I felt that these would serve me better as they have more than just 2 steps for output.

For background cloth I plan on going through the stores selling clothing and the like. For the moment I hope that I can use bed sheets and curtains as background cloth.

I apologize for yet another long post, but as this is a rather important step for me I feel, I would kindly request the assistance of the forum members.

Thanking you,

Musicalhell

PS As I improve and earn more through my photography I will try set up a more 'professional' studio space, but for the moment this will have to suffice.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131433672@N03/
http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/
https://500px.com/arjunphotog

musicalhell · Apr 29, 2016

Sailor Blue said:
musicalhell said:

After taking your advice into account I dug through the net for current prices on the Elinchrom D-Lite Rx series, this is also how I ran into your responses on the matter (as well as on the topic of the power required to shoot through a 135cm Octa) some time ago haha.

I know that the Dlite series had a bad reputation for lack of/poor cooling but I believe that has been fixed in the current edition, also they give out the trigger which allows remote power control instead of the basic trigger.

If I raise my budget a little more there are a few options from elinchrom to consider each of which offer 5 stops of control:

Dlite Rx 1 (100 w/s kit)

Dlite Rx 2 (200 w/s kit)

Dlite Rx 4 (400 w/s kit)

FRX 200 (200 w/s 'semi-pro model')

Click to expand...

Yes, Elinchrom does seem to have solved the problems with their early Dlite lights and the current ones seem to be fine. Remote power control with a RF controller/trigger is great to have.

I see little difference in the results I get with my Canon 7D at ISO 100 or 200. At 400 I start to see a bit of noise and while the images are acceptable I prefer using 100 or 200 if possible. I'm sure your camera will be similar.

The Dlite Rx 2 will allow you to shoot at ISO 100 or 200 with small or medium sized main light diffusers - any diffuser with a surface of up to about 2000 in².

You can get by at ISO 400 with only 200Ws of power for a main light large diffuser (a surface area greater than about 2000 in²), but in my opinion the Rx 4 is a better choice for large main light diffusers. Only 200Ws of power is fine for a large diffuser used as the fill light since you typically use the fill light at 1 to 2 stops lower in power than the main light.

My advice would be to start with the Rx 2 kit and if you find you really need it then add one or more Rx 4 units in the future.

Sailor Blue · Apr 29, 2016

musicalhell said:
Sailor Blue said:

musicalhell said:

After taking your advice into account I dug through the net for current prices on the Elinchrom D-Lite Rx series, this is also how I ran into your responses on the matter (as well as on the topic of the power required to shoot through a 135cm Octa) some time ago haha.

I know that the Dlite series had a bad reputation for lack of/poor cooling but I believe that has been fixed in the current edition, also they give out the trigger which allows remote power control instead of the basic trigger.

If I raise my budget a little more there are a few options from elinchrom to consider each of which offer 5 stops of control:

Dlite Rx 1 (100 w/s kit)

Dlite Rx 2 (200 w/s kit)

Dlite Rx 4 (400 w/s kit)

FRX 200 (200 w/s 'semi-pro model')

Click to expand...

Yes, Elinchrom does seem to have solved the problems with their early Dlite lights and the current ones seem to be fine. Remote power control with a RF controller/trigger is great to have.

I see little difference in the results I get with my Canon 7D at ISO 100 or 200. At 400 I start to see a bit of noise and while the images are acceptable I prefer using 100 or 200 if possible. I'm sure your camera will be similar.

The Dlite Rx 2 will allow you to shoot at ISO 100 or 200 with small or medium sized main light diffusers - any diffuser with a surface of up to about 2000 in².

You can get by at ISO 400 with only 200Ws of power for a main light large diffuser (a surface area greater than about 2000 in²), but in my opinion the Rx 4 is a better choice for large main light diffusers. Only 200Ws of power is fine for a large diffuser used as the fill light since you typically use the fill light at 1 to 2 stops lower in power than the main light.

My advice would be to start with the Rx 2 kit and if you find you really need it then add one or more Rx 4 units in the future.

Click to expand...

musicalhell · Apr 30, 2016

Sailor Blue said:
The softboxes in the kits are probably 24" ones. They would be okay with the 200Ws lights but the 400Ws lights are really too strong for a softbox that small.

The size of light diffuser needed depends on the size of the subject. The diffuser should be as large as or larger than the subject. A 24" softbox is good for head and shoulders (i.e head shots) and can be stretched for a waist up shot if you turn it 45°.

Better overall is a diffuser in the 40"-45" range. It is good for thigh up, waist up, or head shots and it can be used for standing portraits if you are careful. A larger diffuser is better for a standing portrait but not absolutely necessary.

You typically use diffusers at subject to diffuser distances between 1 and 2 times the diagonal or diameter of the diffuser for the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

The brightness per in² depends on the size of the diffuser. The brightness of the light on the subject also depends on the distance, reducing roughly according to the inverse square law.

The soft boxes are the ones you mentioned for the rx 1, I'm not sure if the rx 4 comes with the larger 90cm boxes though.

Sailor Blue said:
Here is my experience with a 5-stop 300Ws strobe.

Ideally I would love to have a 36"x60" (1800 in²) softbox as my main light softbox but when I bought my lights they came with a pair of good quality 40"x40" (1600 in²) medium sized softboxes. These aren't ideal but they are sufficient.

By using my 40" softboxes at subject distances between 1 and 2 diagonals, which are generally the best distances for diffusers, I can shoot at ISO 100 from f/2.8 to f/16.

Just to confirm, do you use the area of the diffused surface to choose between those two? That would mean my 150x30cm (720 in²) soft box is pretty small though the physical appearance contradicts it (due to its length).

Sailor Blue said:
I have too much power for my good quality 24" softboxes. The surface area is smaller so the brightness per in² increases and they should be used closer to the subject than the larger 40" softboxes Both the reduced surface area and the smaller distance increase the brightness of the light on the subject so I have to reduce the light output by 2-4 stops by adding extra layers of diffuser fabric to get down to f/2.8.

I use translucent white nylon or Dacron from any local fabric store. Use your camera's meter to determine how much light the fabric blocks. I found fabrics that block about 1 and 2 stops.

If I went to a larger diffuser it would have a larger surface area and it would be located further from the subject, again reducing the light level . How much it drops depends on the size of the diffuser. To compensate I could get a higher powered light or increase the ISO. I don't mind increasing the ISO to 200. I'm not happy if I have to go to 400 but I will do it if necessary.

Based on your experience with your current light and softbox you should be able to decide which studio strobes are best for you.

Sailor Blue · May 1, 2016

musicalhell said:
Sailor Blue said:

The softboxes in the kits are probably 24" ones. They would be okay with the 200Ws lights but the 400Ws lights are really too strong for a softbox that small.

The size of light diffuser needed depends on the size of the subject. The diffuser should be as large as or larger than the subject. A 24" softbox is good for head and shoulders (i.e head shots) and can be stretched for a waist up shot if you turn it 45°.

Better overall is a diffuser in the 40"-45" range. It is good for thigh up, waist up, or head shots and it can be used for standing portraits if you are careful. A larger diffuser is better for a standing portrait but not absolutely necessary.

You typically use diffusers at subject to diffuser distances between 1 and 2 times the diagonal or diameter of the diffuser for the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

The brightness per in² depends on the size of the diffuser. The brightness of the light on the subject also depends on the distance, reducing roughly according to the inverse square law.

Click to expand...

The soft boxes are the ones you mentioned for the rx 1, I'm not sure if the rx 4 comes with the larger 90cm boxes though.

musicalhell said:

Here is my experience with a 5-stop 300Ws strobe.

Ideally I would love to have a 36"x60" (1800 in²) softbox as my main light softbox but when I bought my lights they came with a pair of good quality 40"x40" (1600 in²) medium sized softboxes. These aren't ideal but they are sufficient.

By using my 40" softboxes at subject distances between 1 and 2 diagonals, which are generally the best distances for diffusers, I can shoot at ISO 100 from f/2.8 to f/16.

Click to expand...

Just to confirm, do you use the area of the diffused surface to choose between those two? That would mean my 150x30cm (720 in²) soft box is pretty small though the physical appearance contradicts it (due to its length).

150x30 cm is 59"x35" (2065 in²) or roughly 36"x60" (2160 in²). I would place it at the upper end of size for a 5-stop 300Ws strobe. At normal working distances of 70" to 140" at ISO 100 you wouldn't be able to use an aperture smaller than f/11 but you should find shooting at f/1.4 is now possible.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

I have too much power for my good quality 24" softboxes. The surface area is smaller so the brightness per in² increases and they should be used closer to the subject than the larger 40" softboxes Both the reduced surface area and the smaller distance increase the brightness of the light on the subject so I have to reduce the light output by 2-4 stops by adding extra layers of diffuser fabric to get down to f/2.8.

I use translucent white nylon or Dacron from any local fabric store. Use your camera's meter to determine how much light the fabric blocks. I found fabrics that block about 1 and 2 stops.

If I went to a larger diffuser it would have a larger surface area and it would be located further from the subject, again reducing the light level . How much it drops depends on the size of the diffuser. To compensate I could get a higher powered light or increase the ISO. I don't mind increasing the ISO to 200. I'm not happy if I have to go to 400 but I will do it if necessary.

Based on your experience with your current light and softbox you should be able to decide which studio strobes are best for you.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Click to expand...

I was hoping to use the kit softboxes (60x60cm) for my products and head shots

A 60cm (24") softbox is a good size for head shots and 200Ws is plenty of power for a softbox this size. With 5-stops of power adjustment you may even find that 200Ws can't be reduced to a low enough power setting to allow you to use f/2.8 so keep some translucent white nylon or Dacron fabric pieces available if you want to shoot at that lens opening.

musicalhell said:
while getting a 125/135cm octa for the rest of my portrait work. This may not be large enough for full standing shots but will work for pretty much everything else right?

Either will work for a standing portrait. You can't see the facial details the way you can with a head shot or a waist up portrait so having a bit harder light is almost never a problem.

My softboxes are only 40" (100cm). When I use them I adjust them to give me even lighting for the head and upper body and I let the light fall off about 1/2 stop to the feet. This type of lighting draws the viewer's attention upward to the face, which is where you want it.

There is an ever increasing chance that I can get the 400 w/s strobes without spending too much of my personal funds, would you suggest I prioritize it over the 200 w/s since I can afford them?

If you intend on doing a lot of head shots or products with the 100cm (24") softboxes the the 200 Ws lights would be a better fit to the size of those softboxes. You would have to use an ISO higher than 100 for the larger 125/135 cm octabox.

If you are going to be using a 125/135 cm octabox a lot then the 400Ws light is a better fit but that would mean using extra layers of diffuser fabric on the 100cm softboxes.

You can get by with either light but you have to live with the compromises so you have to be the one to make the decision..

--

Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

musicalhell · May 1, 2016

Sailor Blue said:
musicalhell said:

Sailor Blue said:

The softboxes in the kits are probably 24" ones. They would be okay with the 200Ws lights but the 400Ws lights are really too strong for a softbox that small.

The size of light diffuser needed depends on the size of the subject. The diffuser should be as large as or larger than the subject. A 24" softbox is good for head and shoulders (i.e head shots) and can be stretched for a waist up shot if you turn it 45°.

Better overall is a diffuser in the 40"-45" range. It is good for thigh up, waist up, or head shots and it can be used for standing portraits if you are careful. A larger diffuser is better for a standing portrait but not absolutely necessary.

You typically use diffusers at subject to diffuser distances between 1 and 2 times the diagonal or diameter of the diffuser for the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

The brightness per in² depends on the size of the diffuser. The brightness of the light on the subject also depends on the distance, reducing roughly according to the inverse square law.

Click to expand...

The soft boxes are the ones you mentioned for the rx 1, I'm not sure if the rx 4 comes with the larger 90cm boxes though.

Sailor Blue said:

Here is my experience with a 5-stop 300Ws strobe.

Ideally I would love to have a 36"x60" (1800 in²) softbox as my main light softbox but when I bought my lights they came with a pair of good quality 40"x40" (1600 in²) medium sized softboxes. These aren't ideal but they are sufficient.

By using my 40" softboxes at subject distances between 1 and 2 diagonals, which are generally the best distances for diffusers, I can shoot at ISO 100 from f/2.8 to f/16.

Click to expand...

Just to confirm, do you use the area of the diffused surface to choose between those two? That would mean my 150x30cm (720 in²) soft box is pretty small though the physical appearance contradicts it (due to its length).

Click to expand...

150x30 cm is 59"x35" (2065 in²) or roughly 36"x60" (2160 in²). I would place it at the upper end of size for a 5-stop 300Ws strobe. At normal working distances of 70" to 140" at ISO 100 you wouldn't be able to use an aperture smaller than f/11 but you should find shooting at f/1.4 is now possible.

Dear Master Sailor,

Isn't 30cm actually about 11.81 Inches? My concern is that at half power about 3 feet away from subject my strobe for this modifier pretty much forces me to shoot at f/11-f/16. This is with the strobe facing the subject, more often than not I end up having to feather it.

Sailor Blue said:
Sailor Blue said:

Sailor Blue said:

I have too much power for my good quality 24" softboxes. The surface area is smaller so the brightness per in² increases and they should be used closer to the subject than the larger 40" softboxes Both the reduced surface area and the smaller distance increase the brightness of the light on the subject so I have to reduce the light output by 2-4 stops by adding extra layers of diffuser fabric to get down to f/2.8.

I use translucent white nylon or Dacron from any local fabric store. Use your camera's meter to determine how much light the fabric blocks. I found fabrics that block about 1 and 2 stops.

If I went to a larger diffuser it would have a larger surface area and it would be located further from the subject, again reducing the light level . How much it drops depends on the size of the diffuser. To compensate I could get a higher powered light or increase the ISO. I don't mind increasing the ISO to 200. I'm not happy if I have to go to 400 but I will do it if necessary.

Based on your experience with your current light and softbox you should be able to decide which studio strobes are best for you.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Sailor Blue · May 1, 2016

musicalhell said:
Sailor Blue said:

musicalhell said:

Sailor Blue said:

The softboxes in the kits are probably 24" ones. They would be okay with the 200Ws lights but the 400Ws lights are really too strong for a softbox that small.

The size of light diffuser needed depends on the size of the subject. The diffuser should be as large as or larger than the subject. A 24" softbox is good for head and shoulders (i.e head shots) and can be stretched for a waist up shot if you turn it 45°.

Better overall is a diffuser in the 40"-45" range. It is good for thigh up, waist up, or head shots and it can be used for standing portraits if you are careful. A larger diffuser is better for a standing portrait but not absolutely necessary.

You typically use diffusers at subject to diffuser distances between 1 and 2 times the diagonal or diameter of the diffuser for the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

The brightness per in² depends on the size of the diffuser. The brightness of the light on the subject also depends on the distance, reducing roughly according to the inverse square law.

Click to expand...

The soft boxes are the ones you mentioned for the rx 1, I'm not sure if the rx 4 comes with the larger 90cm boxes though.

musicalhell said:

Here is my experience with a 5-stop 300Ws strobe.

Ideally I would love to have a 36"x60" (1800 in²) softbox as my main light softbox but when I bought my lights they came with a pair of good quality 40"x40" (1600 in²) medium sized softboxes. These aren't ideal but they are sufficient.

By using my 40" softboxes at subject distances between 1 and 2 diagonals, which are generally the best distances for diffusers, I can shoot at ISO 100 from f/2.8 to f/16.

Click to expand...

Just to confirm, do you use the area of the diffused surface to choose between those two? That would mean my 150x30cm (720 in²) soft box is pretty small though the physical appearance contradicts it (due to its length).

Click to expand...

150x30 cm is 59"x35" (2065 in²) or roughly 36"x60" (2160 in²). I would place it at the upper end of size for a 5-stop 300Ws strobe. At normal working distances of 70" to 140" at ISO 100 you wouldn't be able to use an aperture smaller than f/11 but you should find shooting at f/1.4 is now possible.

Click to expand...

Dear Master Sailor,

Isn't 30cm actually about 11.81 Inches? My concern is that at half power about 3 feet away from subject my strobe for this modifier pretty much forces me to shoot at f/11-f/16. This is with the strobe facing the subject, more often than not I end up having to feather it.

You are right. I have no idea where I got the 35" size.

One thing that I have seen is that my strip softboxes (14"x60" so about the same as yours) are not as efficient as my rectangular ones so they actually work very well with my 300Ws strobes. The efficiency could be due to the shape or the materials used - I don't know which is the right answer.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

I have too much power for my good quality 24" softboxes. The surface area is smaller so the brightness per in² increases and they should be used closer to the subject than the larger 40" softboxes Both the reduced surface area and the smaller distance increase the brightness of the light on the subject so I have to reduce the light output by 2-4 stops by adding extra layers of diffuser fabric to get down to f/2.8.

I use translucent white nylon or Dacron from any local fabric store. Use your camera's meter to determine how much light the fabric blocks. I found fabrics that block about 1 and 2 stops.

If I went to a larger diffuser it would have a larger surface area and it would be located further from the subject, again reducing the light level . How much it drops depends on the size of the diffuser. To compensate I could get a higher powered light or increase the ISO. I don't mind increasing the ISO to 200. I'm not happy if I have to go to 400 but I will do it if necessary.

Based on your experience with your current light and softbox you should be able to decide which studio strobes are best for you.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Click to expand...

I was hoping to use the kit softboxes (60x60cm) for my products and head shots

Click to expand...

A 60cm (24") softbox is a good size for head shots and 200Ws is plenty of power for a softbox this size. With 5-stops of power adjustment you may even find that 200Ws can't be reduced to a low enough power setting to allow you to use f/2.8 so keep some translucent white nylon or Dacron fabric pieces available if you want to shoot at that lens opening.

Click to expand...

I will go fabric shopping tomorrow, at this juncture in time I plan on making do with some basic cloth BGs till such a time that I know what I am doing so (at least some basics).

musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

while getting a 125/135cm octa for the rest of my portrait work. This may not be large enough for full standing shots but will work for pretty much everything else right?

Click to expand...

Either will work for a standing portrait. You can't see the facial details the way you can with a head shot or a waist up portrait so having a bit harder light is almost never a problem.

My softboxes are only 40" (100cm). When I use them I adjust them to give me even lighting for the head and upper body and I let the light fall off about 1/2 stop to the feet. This type of lighting draws the viewer's attention upward to the face, which is where you want it.

Click to expand...

Would there be any problems using a larger than required modifier for say something like head shots?

There are some differences but in general you can shoot head shots with a larger than required diffuser.

Assuming you shoot a head shot with a 60cm (24") softbox located 1 diagonal away ~90cm (~34") you don't get much warp around so the shadows on the far side of the face are dark. You lighten them with a fill light to taste.

With a 125cm octabox used at 125cm the face of the octabox is much wider with respect to the size of the subject. This means more of the face of the softbox will be in front of the subject and light from that portion of the softbox will wrap around the subject, producing lighter shadows. In effect the larger light source is acting like both a main and fill light. You may still need to add a separate fill light but you won't need as much power for the fill light as you needed with a small main light diffuser.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

There is an ever increasing chance that I can get the 400 w/s strobes without spending too much of my personal funds, would you suggest I prioritize it over the 200 w/s since I can afford them?

If you intend on doing a lot of head shots or products with the 100cm (24") softboxes the the 200 Ws lights would be a better fit to the size of those softboxes. You would have to use an ISO higher than 100 for the larger 125/135 cm octabox.

If you are going to be using a 125/135 cm octabox a lot then the 400Ws light is a better fit but that would mean using extra layers of diffuser fabric on the 100cm softboxes.

You can get by with either light but you have to live with the compromises so you have to be the one to make the decision..

--

Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Click to expand...

I still feel like going for the 400 w/s since I really want to do wider shots and my heart has always been drawn towards environmental portraits rather than tight head shots. For this purpose I wanted to get the octa if it can also be used for products/head shots. Also some of the products that I will photograph in the coming years will not be table top stuff if that matters haha.

Assuming that it turns out to be too powerful I am hoping that a ND filter can help further. I had assisted a food photographer who used similar strobes to what I currently have and he almost always had a stop or more of ND on his lens.

ND filters work but they have two drawbacks.

First, any filter reduces the resolution of your lens, meaning that your images are slightly less sharp.

Second, a ND filter can make Auto Focus less reliable.

A much better solution is adding layers of diffuser fabric to the lights to reduce their brightness.

musicalhell said:
To be honest, probably due to my inexperience with strobes, I find that chance of 25W lowest output being too powerful unbelievable. I have to ask Master Sailor, if I may, what kind of photography do you specialize in?

25Ws can be too much.

I mostly do portraiture and glamour as a hobby, and no I don't have a web site and I rarely share images. Even though what I do is perfectly legal, living in a conservative foreign country I don't want to give the authorities any excuse for kicking me out of the country.

When shooting outdoors with a subject in the shade my camera is at ISO 100, 1/200sec, and around f/5.6-f/8. I usually use my hot-shoe flash with a 45" (~1500 in²) white umbrella and the flash is firing at about 1/4 of full power or less. 1/4 of full power for a diffused hot-shoe flash is equal to about 15Ws.

In the studio I use ISO 400 for the same lighting setup and 1/4-3/4 of full power depending on how close I place the umbrella.

Sometimes when you want to shoot in the studio at very wide apertures for a very shallow depth of field the right answer is to turn off the strobes and use the modeling lights as your sources of light for the image.

musicalhell said:
I'm sorry to pester you further but I wish to ask for your guidance on another, but related, topic. A problem I face with my current strobe is that even with the soft box the light spills everywhere, I don't believe that I get a cloth grid for my modifier to I will have to use flags to control and shape the light. Firstly, is this a common occurrence, that is using flags/scrims? Also would you mind pointing me in the direction of some learning resources on how one can use flags and scrims to control the light?

Scrims are generally used one of two ways. One way is outdoors where you place the scrim between the sun and the subject to give you soft light. The other is in place of a softbox or umbrella where the scrim is used to diffuse the light from a strobe or flash.

Using flags is common. V flats are relatively cheap to make from Coroplast, foam core board, or even sheets of styrofoam home insulation. These have the advantage of being large and free standing but they are a pain to store when not in use. If one side is white and the other black they make good reflectors or flags.

Set Shop Tutorials: "V-Flats, Wind Machines, and Full length Posing" Featuring Steve Sint - YouTube

Larry's Cheap Shots - Video of Coroplast V-Flats

I made the gadget below to hold light weight rigid reflectors or flags made of cardboard, Coroplast, or foam core board. By rotating the clamp and adjusting the umbrella adapter I can position the reflector/flag any way I want.

musicalhell said:
As always, thanking you from the bottom of my heart,

Musicalhell

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131433672@N03/
http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/
https://500px.com/arjunphotog

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

musicalhell · May 2, 2016

Sailor Blue said:
You are right. I have no idea where I got the 35" size.
One thing that I have seen is that my strip softboxes (14"x60" so about the same as yours) are not as efficient as my rectangular ones so they actually work very well with my 300Ws strobes. The efficiency could be due to the shape or the materials used - I don't know which is the right answer.
There are some differences but in general you can shoot head shots with a larger than required diffuser.
Assuming you shoot a head shot with a 60cm (24") softbox located 1 diagonal away ~90cm (~34") you don't get much warp around so the shadows on the far side of the face are dark. You lighten them with a fill light to taste.

With a 125cm octabox used at 125cm the face of the octabox is much wider with respect to the size of the subject. This means more of the face of the softbox will be in front of the subject and light from that portion of the softbox will wrap around the subject, producing lighter shadows. In effect the larger light source is acting like both a main and fill light. You may still need to add a separate fill light but you won't need as much power for the fill light as you needed with a small main light diffuser.

Sailor Blue said:
ND filters work but they have two drawbacks.

First, any filter reduces the resolution of your lens, meaning that your images are slightly less sharp.

Second, a ND filter can make Auto Focus less reliable.

A much better solution is adding layers of diffuser fabric to the lights to reduce their brightness.

Sailor Blue said:

To be honest, probably due to my inexperience with strobes, I find that chance of 25W lowest output being too powerful unbelievable. I have to ask Master Sailor, if I may, what kind of photography do you specialize in?

Click to expand...

25Ws can be too much.

I mostly do portraiture and glamour as a hobby, and no I don't have a web site and I rarely share images. Even though what I do is perfectly legal, living in a conservative foreign country I don't want to give the authorities any excuse for kicking me out of the country.

Dear Master Sailor,

I wasn't planning on asking to see your work haha, I was merely curious as to your preferred genre of photography. I understand, I too come from a (somewhat) conservative society.

Sailor Blue said:
When shooting outdoors with a subject in the shade my camera is at ISO 100, 1/200sec, and around f/5.6-f/8. I usually use my hot-shoe flash with a 45" (~1500 in²) white umbrella and the flash is firing at about 1/4 of full power or less. 1/4 of full power for a diffused hot-shoe flash is equal to about 15Ws.

In the studio I use ISO 400 for the same lighting setup and 1/4-3/4 of full power depending on how close I place the umbrella.

Sometimes when you want to shoot in the studio at very wide apertures for a very shallow depth of field the right answer is to turn off the strobes and use the modeling lights as your sources of light for the image.

Yes I've heard about that (using modeling lamps to shoot), wouldn't this cause colour temperature problems with some strobes? Also on the tech sheet of the Elinchrom site they mention that the strobes colour temp at full power is 5500k, does it chance with output? I recall that continuous lights do that sometimes.

Sailor Blue said:
Sailor Blue said:

I'm sorry to pester you further but I wish to ask for your guidance on another, but related, topic. A problem I face with my current strobe is that even with the soft box the light spills everywhere, I don't believe that I get a cloth grid for my modifier to I will have to use flags to control and shape the light. Firstly, is this a common occurrence, that is using flags/scrims? Also would you mind pointing me in the direction of some learning resources on how one can use flags and scrims to control the light?

Click to expand...

Scrims are generally used one of two ways. One way is outdoors where you place the scrim between the sun and the subject to give you soft light. The other is in place of a softbox or umbrella where the scrim is used to diffuse the light from a strobe or flash.

Using flags is common. V flats are relatively cheap to make from Coroplast, foam core board, or even sheets of styrofoam home insulation. These have the advantage of being large and free standing but they are a pain to store when not in use. If one side is white and the other black they make good reflectors or flags.

Set Shop Tutorials: "V-Flats, Wind Machines, and Full length Posing" Featuring Steve Sint - YouTube

Larry's Cheap Shots - Video of Coroplast V-Flats

I made the gadget below to hold light weight rigid reflectors or flags made of cardboard, Coroplast, or foam core board. By rotating the clamp and adjusting the umbrella adapter I can position the reflector/flag any way I want.

Sailor Blue said:

As always, thanking you from the bottom of my heart,

Musicalhell

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131433672@N03/
http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/
https://500px.com/arjunphotog

Click to expand...

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

What kind of clamp is that? I've searched here but didn't get any results. Also would is be wise in getting an extra light stand or two as a way to hold things up (e.g reflector)? Thank you for the links.

Thanking you,

Musicalhell

--

arjun prakash

Explore arjun prakash’s 37 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/

500px

500px.com

Sailor Blue · May 2, 2016

musicalhell said:
Sailor Blue said:

Sometimes when you want to shoot in the studio at very wide apertures for a very shallow depth of field the right answer is to turn off the strobes and use the modeling lights as your sources of light for the image.

Click to expand...

Yes I've heard about that (using modeling lamps to shoot), wouldn't this cause colour temperature problems with some strobes? Also on the tech sheet of the Elinchrom site they mention that the strobes colour temp at full power is 5500k, does it chance with output? I recall that continuous lights do that sometimes.

If you are using modeling lights then you need to make sure that there is no ambient light and that you don't use any flash or strobe - all the light should come from the modeling lights.

If the modeling lights are tungsten than you use a tungsten WB setting. If they are LEDs then you use whatever WB is correct for those bulbs.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

I'm sorry to pester you further but I wish to ask for your guidance on another, but related, topic. A problem I face with my current strobe is that even with the soft box the light spills everywhere, I don't believe that I get a cloth grid for my modifier to I will have to use flags to control and shape the light. Firstly, is this a common occurrence, that is using flags/scrims? Also would you mind pointing me in the direction of some learning resources on how one can use flags and scrims to control the light?

Click to expand...

Scrims are generally used one of two ways. One way is outdoors where you place the scrim between the sun and the subject to give you soft light. The other is in place of a softbox or umbrella where the scrim is used to diffuse the light from a strobe or flash.

Using flags is common. V flats are relatively cheap to make from Coroplast, foam core board, or even sheets of styrofoam home insulation. These have the advantage of being large and free standing but they are a pain to store when not in use. If one side is white and the other black they make good reflectors or flags.

Set Shop Tutorials: "V-Flats, Wind Machines, and Full length Posing" Featuring Steve Sint - YouTube

Larry's Cheap Shots - Video of Coroplast V-Flats

I made the gadget below to hold light weight rigid reflectors or flags made of cardboard, Coroplast, or foam core board. By rotating the clamp and adjusting the umbrella adapter I can position the reflector/flag any way I want.

musicalhell said:

As always, thanking you from the bottom of my heart,

Musicalhell

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131433672@N03/
http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/
https://500px.com/arjunphotog

Click to expand...

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Click to expand...

What kind of clamp is that? I've searched here but didn't get any results. Also would is be wise in getting an extra light stand or two as a way to hold things up (e.g reflector)? Thank you for the links.

Thanking you,

Musicalhell

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131433672@N03/
http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/
https://500px.com/arjunphotog

It is just a cheap metal 6" "A" shaped spring clamp you can buy at any home improvement store. They are also available in plastic. They cost around US $1-$2 each. When I pulled the red rubber coating off one handle there was already a hole.

eBay - 2X Large 6'' Spring Clamp Metal Stall Clip Rubber Coated Tipped Grip Holder NEW

I used a cap nut to attach the male spigot . The spigot goes into the top of the umbrella stand. Here is one example of a spigot that is similar to the one I used.

Impact Short Double-Male Round Spigot with 1/4"-20 and 3/8" Threads

If you are starting out with a single strobe then having an extra stand to hold a reflector is a necessity unless you have a willing assistant to hold the reflector. A spring clamp rig like that above will work fine for holding a lightweight reflector like one made from cardboard or Coroplast. A foam core board reflector is a bit heavier so be careful about how big it is with this rig.

If you have multiple lights the extra stand will be of more use for holding flags, but that is only as needed. I would start without extra stands for flags and only add them as needed.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

musicalhell · May 3, 2016

Sailor Blue said:
musicalhell said:

Yes I've heard about that (using modeling lamps to shoot), wouldn't this cause colour temperature problems with some strobes? Also on the tech sheet of the Elinchrom site they mention that the strobes colour temp at full power is 5500k, does it chance with output? I recall that continuous lights do that sometimes.

Click to expand...

If you are using modeling lights then you need to make sure that there is no ambient light and that you don't use any flash or strobe - all the light should come from the modeling lights.

If the modeling lights are tungsten than you use a tungsten WB setting. If they are LEDs then you use whatever WB is correct for those bulbs.

Sailor Blue said:

What kind of clamp is that? I've searched here but didn't get any results. Also would is be wise in getting an extra light stand or two as a way to hold things up (e.g reflector)? Thank you for the links.

Thanking you,

Musicalhell

Click to expand...

fmian · May 3, 2016

I had a similar dilemma to yours. I wanted to use my small apartment as a living space and a studio for portraiture. And I didn't want to spend a lot of money.

My main interest is in hollywood glamour portraiture so some of this may not apply directly to you. After some research I found that using flash to achieve the look I wanted was very expensive and likely still wouldn't be right due to the nature/shape of those bulbs and how they compare to the fresnel lighting used in the 50's and 60's. So I decided to get some continuous tungsten fresnel lights and one open face light with softbox. Mind you, these lights get hot, but so did the ones used by the photographers who inspire me. These lights are very cheap compared to studio flash.

I can shoot portraits at ISO 200, 1/125s, f/5.6 quite comfortably. Without getting so close as to cause discomfort for the model.

Here's a photo I took to obverse spill light. Sorry it's a screengrab from instagram I only have my phone to post right now.

As you can see there is enough distance between the subject and background without the other lights interfering etc. That's a background light, main light on boom, and fill light from the left.

The control of effect I have with these lights and included barndoors is very diverse. I havent yet seen a need to purchase any additional modifiers like I'd have to with studio flash.

I have very little floor space. Maybe 4m x 10m and that had to double as living space for a sofa, tv, coffee table etc. I installed lockable castor wheels on my sofa and coffee table so I can move them around with ease when needed. I changed out some of my other furniture with things that can serve multiple purposes. Like cube ottomans for storage of records, to sit or put my feet up on, or to use as props in the studio.

I then purchased some manfrotto autopoles for holding up backdrops and clamping flags or diffusers to with extension arms. These take up less than 10cm diameter floor space each. As opposed to normal backdrop stands that take up perhaps 100cm diameter.

For my main light stand I use one with a set of locking wheels on the bottom at 75cm diameter and I have added some things to it which allows me to attach 3x of my lights to them aligned vertically if needed. So.. I can achieve some 3 point lighting setups with only one stand and a reflector. I have other regular light stands for when I need to arrange the lights in a more flexible setup.

I know our space and requirements are somewhat different but I hope some of this can serve to help you find a solution that suits you best.

--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

musicalhell · May 3, 2016

fmian said:
I had a similar dilemma to yours. I wanted to use my small apartment as a living space and a studio for portraiture. And I didn't want to spend a lot of money.

My main interest is in hollywood glamour portraiture so some of this may not apply directly to you. After some research I found that using flash to achieve the look I wanted was very expensive and likely still wouldn't be right due to the nature/shape of those bulbs and how they compare to the fresnel lighting used in the 50's and 60's. So I decided to get some continuous tungsten fresnel lights and one open face light with softbox. Mind you, these lights get hot, but so did the ones used by the photographers who inspire me. These lights are very cheap compared to studio flash.

I can shoot portraits at ISO 200, 1/125s, f/5.6 quite comfortably. Without getting so close as to cause discomfort for the model.

Here's a photo I took to obverse spill light. Sorry it's a screengrab from instagram I only have my phone to post right now.

As you can see there is enough distance between the subject and background without the other lights interfering etc. That's a background light, main light on boom, and fill light from the left.

The control of effect I have with these lights and included barndoors is very diverse. I havent yet seen a need to purchase any additional modifiers like I'd have to with studio flash.

I have very little floor space. Maybe 4m x 10m and that had to double as living space for a sofa, tv, coffee table etc. I installed lockable castor wheels on my sofa and coffee table so I can move them around with ease when needed. I changed out some of my other furniture with things that can serve multiple purposes. Like cube ottomans for storage of records, to sit or put my feet up on, or to use as props in the studio.

I then purchased some manfrotto autopoles for holding up backdrops and clamping flags or diffusers to with extension arms. These take up less than 10cm diameter floor space each. As opposed to normal backdrop stands that take up perhaps 100cm diameter.

For my main light stand I use one with a set of locking wheels on the bottom at 75cm diameter and I have added some things to it which allows me to attach 3x of my lights to them aligned vertically if needed. So.. I can achieve some 3 point lighting setups with only one stand and a reflector. I have other regular light stands for when I need to arrange the lights in a more flexible setup.

I know our space and requirements are somewhat different but I hope some of this can serve to help you find a solution that suits you best.

--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

Dear Fmian,

Thank you for your suggestion, I was actually, at one point, considering using LEDs. I know that some people like Peter Hurley use Kinoflo for their work. I know the Fresnel gets hot but the built in barn door is useful, by the way I thought that these were more video lights than for stills?

After due consideration I felt that grabbing strobes might be a better option since some time down the line I may want to use my gear on location. I'm not sure if I can get power packs for continuous light and how long they run per charge. I do have to admit that this may be a little ways down the road.

When I was considering continuous options I did a bit of digging and much like strobes the options were limited. The only LED arrays were small and the rest were either 1-3 CFL systems or some tungsten options from local brands.

I had reservations about the following:

For the amount of power I was told that the strobe puts out more light making it more energy efficient.
I wasn't sure if it can be used out doors during the day effectively unless they are truly powerful.
I was concerned about the lack of modifiers and if they would allow for the variety of lighting options that strobes allow.

Given the smaller source of light doesn't the fresnel produce harder shadows? Also if you wanted to soften the light are there any other options apart from Scrims or bouncing the light?

Regards,

Musicalhell

--

arjun prakash

Explore arjun prakash’s 37 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/

500px

500px.com

fmian · May 3, 2016

musicalhell said:
fmian said:

I had a similar dilemma to yours. I wanted to use my small apartment as a living space and a studio for portraiture. And I didn't want to spend a lot of money.

Click to expand...

...

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

I know our space and requirements are somewhat different but I hope some of this can serve to help you find a solution that suits you best.

--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

Click to expand...

Dear Fmian,

Thank you for your suggestion,

No worries

musicalhell said:
I was actually, at one point, considering using LEDs.

It's important to consider that LED is just the technology behind the light source. The quality/characteristics of the output is also largely determined by how the light bulb/lamp is housed and controlled. ie. You can get LED fresnel or open face flood lights as well, or light banks with softboxes.

musicalhell said:
I know that some people like Peter Hurley use Kinoflo for their work.

The Kino Flos use flourescent tubes that are soft/diffused right from the source. So they are limited to particular applications. They fill a scene quite well or you can create a slim strip output with the barndoors, but are not really used for more precise lighting arrangements. I'd imagine most people with Kino lights would compliment their kit with other types of lights as well.

musicalhell said:
I know the Fresnel gets hot

The Fresnel is not the part of it that creates the heat, it's the fact that the ones I have are using tungsten lamps inside. The positives to this are that the housing/fixture is cost effective (no electronics), the bulb is cheap to replace, and they are not as heavy as other fresnel alternatives like HMI fresnel or LED fresnel. I've used some expensive studio flash fresnel attachments before but was not impressed by the design/character of the light at all.

musicalhell said:
but the built in barn door is useful,

You can get barndoors for most types of lights. Mostly depends on whether the model lets you attach them on.

musicalhell said:
by the way I thought that these were more video lights than for stills?

These days yes. They're used for video to give a cinematic look. Most bigger productions will use HMI fresnel or par lights because they use less power, are daylight balanced and don't get as hot, but they are super expensive in comparison and generally require a seperate floor pack ballast to control the power.

Decades ago they were used very commonly for photography.

musicalhell said:
After due consideration I felt that grabbing strobes might be a better option since some time down the line I may want to use my gear on location.

Fair enough. Just make sure the models you get have an external battery option. Not all strobes can do this.

musicalhell said:
I'm not sure if I can get power packs for continuous light and how long they run per charge.

I'm not sure of the viability of using power packs for tungsten studio lights. I doubt it would be an effective option. I'm sure it's possible, but not as useful as some would want it to be.

musicalhell said:
I do have to admit that this may be a little ways down the road.

You could just get a few YN branded speedlites later on with all the stands and softboxes you need, instead of spending a lot of money right now on features you may not use often or any time soon. Speedlites won't give you exactly the same options as battery powered strobes, but you can still do mostly the same thing.

Also FYI, speedlights use a fresnel design as well but being a much smaller lens/lamp the capability is not quite the same as a larger one.

musicalhell said:
When I was considering continuous options I did a bit of digging and much like strobes the options were limited. The only LED arrays were small and the rest were either 1-3 CFL systems or some tungsten options from local brands.

I had reservations about the following:

For the amount of power I was told that the strobe puts out more light making it more energy efficient.

This is true. I'm not sure what the power situation is there in India for you, but I know in Pakistan it's terrible. If I were you I'd get someone to check the wiring in that building to make sure it can handle what you want to do. Even if it is with strobes.

For me personally, the power output and efficiency is not a big deal. I won't be using high f/stops or trying to capture fast motion in my portraits. Nor will I be leaving them on for long durations since I shoot on film and only take a small number of frames per scene.

musicalhell said:
I wasn't sure if it can be used out doors during the day effectively unless they are truly powerful.

This may end up being a concern with any light you get, depending on how you want to frame the shot and where the sun is etc. Even for strobe flash it's worth considering the use of a shade or diffuser over the subject to stop the sunlight from being so strong and to balance it with the light you are adding.

musicalhell said:
I was concerned about the lack of modifiers and if they would allow for the variety of lighting options that strobes allow.

It could also be said the other way around. What Fresnel and open face lights (with spot and flood) offer with just a barndoor is different to what most strobes offer even with modifiers.

musicalhell said:
Given the smaller source of light doesn't the fresnel produce harder shadows?

The fresnel is designed to produce a clean and more defined shadow, all the way from spot to flood.

musicalhell said:
Also if you wanted to soften the light are there any other options apart from Scrims or bouncing the light?

You can soften the light on the fresnel by adjusting it to flood (limit spill with barndoors if needed), but the shadow will still be nicely defined. This is by design. It does not scatter the light even when it spreads the beam wide. The rays of light are designed to go straight ahead and not all over the place like most other light fixtures.

If you want soft light and soft shadow then use the open face light.

Here are some comparison snaps I took quickly this morning for you.
The distance between light, hand, and wall is approximately the same in both cases.

Fresnel light at about half way between spot and flood. Hard defined shadow.

Open face light at about half way between spot and flood. Much softer shadow. You can put a softbox on this light to soften the shadow even more.

Hope that makes sense and helps you make a decision easier.

If someone knows of newer designed lights that overcome some of the differences I've stated please let us know. There are always new things on the market and I don't read everything.
--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

musicalhell · May 3, 2016

fmian said:
musicalhell said:

Dear Fmian,

Click to expand...

fmian said:

Thank you for your suggestion,

Click to expand...

No worries

fmian said:

I was actually, at one point, considering using LEDs.

Click to expand...

It's important to consider that LED is just the technology behind the light source. The quality/characteristics of the output is also largely determined by how the light bulb/lamp is housed and controlled. ie. You can get LED fresnel or open face flood lights as well, or light banks with softboxes.

This I didn't know. I was basing my knowledge of the LED lights as a lightbank in the style of the Kinos.

fmian said:
fmian said:

I know that some people like Peter Hurley use Kinoflo for their work.

Click to expand...

The Kino Flos use flourescent tubes that are soft/diffused right from the source. So they are limited to particular applications. They fill a scene quite well or you can create a slim strip output with the barndoors, but are not really used for more precise lighting arrangements. I'd imagine most people with Kino lights would compliment their kit with other types of lights as well.

Wouldn't LEDs be able to offer the same light quality?

fmian said:
fmian said:

I know the Fresnel gets hot

Click to expand...

The Fresnel is not the part of it that creates the heat, it's the fact that the ones I have are using tungsten lamps inside. The positives to this are that the housing/fixture is cost effective (no electronics), the bulb is cheap to replace, and they are not as heavy as other fresnel alternatives like HMI fresnel or LED fresnel. I've used some expensive studio flash fresnel attachments before but was not impressed by the design/character of the light at all.

fmian said:

but the built in barn door is useful,

Click to expand...

You can get barndoors for most types of lights. Mostly depends on whether the model lets you attach them on.

fmian said:

by the way I thought that these were more video lights than for stills?

Click to expand...

These days yes. They're used for video to give a cinematic look. Most bigger productions will use HMI fresnel or par lights because they use less power, are daylight balanced and don't get as hot, but they are super expensive in comparison and generally require a seperate floor pack ballast to control the power.

Decades ago they were used very commonly for photography.

This is interesting, I've seen some videos of studio photographers from I think early 90s, they seemed to rely on diffusers that weren't on the light compared to the on-strobe trend today. Is there any resource that has studied/listed/described the popular lighting techniques over the years?

fmian said:
fmian said:

After due consideration I felt that grabbing strobes might be a better option since some time down the line I may want to use my gear on location.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. Just make sure the models you get have an external battery option. Not all strobes can do this.

I'm getting the Elinchrom D-lite Rx 2/4 kit which I believe are portable

fmian said:
fmian said:

I'm not sure if I can get power packs for continuous light and how long they run per charge.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure of the viability of using power packs for tungsten studio lights. I doubt it would be an effective option. I'm sure it's possible, but not as useful as some would want it to be.

fmian said:

I do have to admit that this may be a little ways down the road.

Click to expand...

You could just get a few YN branded speedlites later on with all the stands and softboxes you need, instead of spending a lot of money right now on features you may not use often or any time soon. Speedlites won't give you exactly the same options as battery powered strobes, but you can still do mostly the same thing.

Also FYI, speedlights use a fresnel design as well but being a much smaller lens/lamp the capability is not quite the same as a larger one.

I had initially wanted a full speedlight set up for the portability but when I compared the costs it turned out to be a bit more expensive. For example, when I bought my cheap strobe I got the head, stand, a basic reflector and a white umbrella for around 7000 INR, the YN 560 IV was priced about 8000.

The problem lies with the choices we get here, in countries like US you have reputed affordable brands like Alienbees etc. Here we get a handful of choices of which 80-90% are Chinese rebrands with no service option at all. This was what I faced with getting a speedlight set up, If I wanted to get a softbox for the speedlight like the rapidbox I would have to get it via ebay or alibaba/express and this would be a questionable chinese brand with no after sales support.

fmian said:
fmian said:

When I was considering continuous options I did a bit of digging and much like strobes the options were limited. The only LED arrays were small and the rest were either 1-3 CFL systems or some tungsten options from local brands.

I had reservations about the following:

For the amount of power I was told that the strobe puts out more light making it more energy efficient.

Click to expand...

This is true. I'm not sure what the power situation is there in India for you, but I know in Pakistan it's terrible. If I were you I'd get someone to check the wiring in that building to make sure it can handle what you want to do. Even if it is with strobes.

For me personally, the power output and efficiency is not a big deal. I won't be using high f/stops or trying to capture fast motion in my portraits. Nor will I be leaving them on for long durations since I shoot on film and only take a small number of frames per scene.

Out of curiosity, are you based there? And yes power gets bad, especially in the south. They cut the power in the summer because there isn't enough water to generate electricity. They cut the power in the monsoon because it rains too much and they are worried about damage. That leaves about 2-3 months where they have no reason to cut it but they sometimes do anyway.

Though to be honest depending on whether your in a city and depending on which part of the city you may not face too much trouble. Many of the new buildings have a UPS or generator of some form but since my home is rather old I don't have the luxury haha.

The problem in the city area is faced by the 'lower' priority buildings like schools working this low SES children, they don't get regular electric supply and even if they do the lighting is just awful. And that isn't from a photographers POV.

fmian said:
fmian said:

I wasn't sure if it can be used out doors during the day effectively unless they are truly powerful.

Click to expand...

This may end up being a concern with any light you get, depending on how you want to frame the shot and where the sun is etc. Even for strobe flash it's worth considering the use of a shade or diffuser over the subject to stop the sunlight from being so strong and to balance it with the light you are adding.

This is true, but light-for-power wise I was led to believe that the higher output of the strobe would be better handle this kind of situation.

fmian said:
fmian said:

I was concerned about the lack of modifiers and if they would allow for the variety of lighting options that strobes allow.

Click to expand...

It could also be said the other way around. What Fresnel and open face lights (with spot and flood) offer with just a barndoor is different to what most strobes offer even with modifiers.

I have been spending some time learning about lighting in video recently. I felt that they focus on making the lighting effective and impact full without drawing too much attention to it. Also they seem to use motivated lighting which may or may not always be the case in still photographs (not saying that this is in anyway bad).

fmian said:
fmian said:

Given the smaller source of light doesn't the fresnel produce harder shadows?

Click to expand...

The fresnel is designed to produce a clean and more defined shadow, all the way from spot to flood.

fmian said:

Also if you wanted to soften the light are there any other options apart from Scrims or bouncing the light?

Click to expand...

You can soften the light on the fresnel by adjusting it to flood (limit spill with barndoors if needed), but the shadow will still be nicely defined. This is by design. It does not scatter the light even when it spreads the beam wide. The rays of light are designed to go straight ahead and not all over the place like most other light fixtures.
If you want soft light and soft shadow then use the open face light.
Here are some comparison snaps I took quickly this morning for you.
The distance between light, hand, and wall is approximately the same in both cases.

Fresnel light at about half way between spot and flood. Hard defined shadow.

Open face light at about half way between spot and flood. Much softer shadow. You can put a softbox on this light to soften the shadow even more.

Hope that makes sense and helps you make a decision easier.

If someone knows of newer designed lights that overcome some of the differences I've stated please let us know. There are always new things on the market and I don't read everything.

--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

Dear Fmian,

Thank you for going out of your way for the examples! If I may ask, how does a softbox attach to these types of lights? I had assumed that the barn doors were an integral part of the light system and not truly removable. Would you mind sharing what kind of exposure settings you usually use with these lights?

Regards,
Musicalhell

--

arjun prakash

Explore arjun prakash’s 37 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/

500px

500px.com

Sailor Blue · May 3, 2016

musicalhell said:
Dear Master sailor,

Please don't call me Master. I am far from a master of anything and when it comes to photography just an advanced amateur that is in no way on a par with many professionals. I offer advice when I can because I am a retired professional with the time available unlike working professionals.

musicalhell said:
I have pretty much settled on the 400 w/s (d-lite rx4) as I'd rather stop down/add diffusion over lack the power to shoot through different modifiers or different lighting conditions. Currently I expect my work to be indoors for the foreseeable future but you never know.

I don't have an assistant so I wondered if having an extra stand would be useful for holding stuff up. As you suggested I will add as required. Here is what I thought my basic set up would look like including what I currently have, please let me know if I ought to consider anything else:

The Bold are things I plan on buying and the normal text are things that I already have.

2x 400w/s Elinchrom strobes (5 stops of control)

1x 250w/s local brand strobe (2 stops of control)

1x 150x30cm strip soft box (2 layers of diffusion)

1x Shoot through white Umbrella (I don't know what size)

1x Normal reflector

2x Kit soft boxes (I think these are the 60x60cm model)

3x light stands which come with the 3 lights (I have one of these already)

1x Boom arm with counterweights and sandbags

1x 135cm octabank (probably local brand with 3 layers of diffusion if the quality looks good)

1x Background stand (it holds a 6ftx12ft cloth)

1x 42 inch 5 in 1 reflector

1x Local brand hot shoe flash (58 GN; 18-180mm; 1/1-1/128; optical slave)

1x Dark gray background cloth (6x12 ft)

1x White background cloth (6x12 ft)

1x Black background cloth (6x12 ft)

As required I will add fabrics/props and the like, and in the future depending on usage and again requirements I will add modifiers like snoots/grids etc. Also the B&H version of the to go kit has 1 softbox and 1 octabank so I will need to see if that is the same kit we get here or not.

Regards,

Musicalhell

musicalhell · May 3, 2016

Sailor Blue said:
musicalhell said:

Dear Master sailor,

Click to expand...

Please don't call me Master. I am far from a master of anything and when it comes to photography just an advanced amateur that is in no way on a par with many professionals. I offer advice when I can because I am a retired professional with the time available unlike working professionals.

Aww okay

, also just for the sake of making sure, by master I didn't intend it as 'Master of x', but more like 'Teacher sailor' perhaps proff would be better? xD. I will abstain if you don't like it though.

Sailor Blue said:
Sailor Blue said:

I have pretty much settled on the 400 w/s (d-lite rx4) as I'd rather stop down/add diffusion over lack the power to shoot through different modifiers or different lighting conditions. Currently I expect my work to be indoors for the foreseeable future but you never know.

I don't have an assistant so I wondered if having an extra stand would be useful for holding stuff up. As you suggested I will add as required. Here is what I thought my basic set up would look like including what I currently have, please let me know if I ought to consider anything else:

The Bold are things I plan on buying and the normal text are things that I already have.

2x 400w/s Elinchrom strobes (5 stops of control)

1x 250w/s local brand strobe (2 stops of control)

1x 150x30cm strip soft box (2 layers of diffusion)

1x Shoot through white Umbrella (I don't know what size)

1x Normal reflector

2x Kit soft boxes (I think these are the 60x60cm model)

3x light stands which come with the 3 lights (I have one of these already)

1x Boom arm with counterweights and sandbags

1x 135cm octabank (probably local brand with 3 layers of diffusion if the quality looks good)

1x Background stand (it holds a 6ftx12ft cloth)

1x 42 inch 5 in 1 reflector

1x Local brand hot shoe flash (58 GN; 18-180mm; 1/1-1/128; optical slave)

1x Dark gray background cloth (6x12 ft)

1x White background cloth (6x12 ft)

1x Black background cloth (6x12 ft)

As required I will add fabrics/props and the like, and in the future depending on usage and again requirements I will add modifiers like snoots/grids etc. Also the B&H version of the to go kit has 1 softbox and 1 octabank so I will need to see if that is the same kit we get here or not.

Regards,

Musicalhell

Click to expand...

fmian · May 4, 2016

musicalhell said:
fmian said:

musicalhell said:

I know that some people like Peter Hurley use Kinoflo for their work.

Click to expand...

The Kino Flos use flourescent tubes that are soft/diffused right from the source. So they are limited to particular applications. They fill a scene quite well or you can create a slim strip output with the barndoors, but are not really used for more precise lighting arrangements. I'd imagine most people with Kino lights would compliment their kit with other types of lights as well.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't LEDs be able to offer the same light quality?

Same light quality? Perhaps. If they were very high end LED's. I think the main question at the moment is whether they are reliable or not.

LED lights in a flouro tube style design are a fairly new thing and are a much more complex electrical design than the actual flouro tubes that Kino Flo use, which have gases and powder in them. Same type of system that has been in use for a very long time, but Kino make them to a much higher standard than household tubes. Currently LED tube banks from a lesser known brand cost as much as the Kino equivalent.

So the older trustworthy technology is what people trust at the moment because it has had a long time to be perfected. Not LED though.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

I know the Fresnel gets hot

Click to expand...

The Fresnel is not the part of it that creates the heat, it's the fact that the ones I have are using tungsten lamps inside. The positives to this are that the housing/fixture is cost effective (no electronics), the bulb is cheap to replace, and they are not as heavy as other fresnel alternatives like HMI fresnel or LED fresnel. I've used some expensive studio flash fresnel attachments before but was not impressed by the design/character of the light at all.

musicalhell said:

but the built in barn door is useful,

Click to expand...

You can get barndoors for most types of lights. Mostly depends on whether the model lets you attach them on.

musicalhell said:

by the way I thought that these were more video lights than for stills?

Click to expand...

These days yes. They're used for video to give a cinematic look. Most bigger productions will use HMI fresnel or par lights because they use less power, are daylight balanced and don't get as hot, but they are super expensive in comparison and generally require a seperate floor pack ballast to control the power.

Decades ago they were used very commonly for photography.

Click to expand...

This is interesting, I've seen some videos of studio photographers from I think early 90s, they seemed to rely on diffusers that weren't on the light compared to the on-strobe trend today. Is there any resource that has studied/listed/described the popular lighting techniques over the years?

People still do that with the diffusers these days. Tape it onto an extension arm off another stand and it hangs further infront of the light than a softbox would. Is this what you have seen? It's actually more flexible than a contained softbox. If you have barndoors this kind of becomes a DIY softbox where you can position the diffuser closer or further away from the light source for different effect.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

After due consideration I felt that grabbing strobes might be a better option since some time down the line I may want to use my gear on location.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. Just make sure the models you get have an external battery option. Not all strobes can do this.

Click to expand...

I'm getting the Elinchrom D-lite Rx 2/4 kit which I believe are portable

I'm not seeing portable battery power as an option. Only mains supply. Do you want to double check their website? It's a bit confusing to me...

http://www.elinchrom.com/support/unit-specs.html

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

I'm not sure if I can get power packs for continuous light and how long they run per charge.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure of the viability of using power packs for tungsten studio lights. I doubt it would be an effective option. I'm sure it's possible, but not as useful as some would want it to be.

musicalhell said:

I do have to admit that this may be a little ways down the road.

Click to expand...

You could just get a few YN branded speedlites later on with all the stands and softboxes you need, instead of spending a lot of money right now on features you may not use often or any time soon. Speedlites won't give you exactly the same options as battery powered strobes, but you can still do mostly the same thing.

Also FYI, speedlights use a fresnel design as well but being a much smaller lens/lamp the capability is not quite the same as a larger one.

Click to expand...

I had initially wanted a full speedlight set up for the portability but when I compared the costs it turned out to be a bit more expensive. For example, when I bought my cheap strobe I got the head, stand, a basic reflector and a white umbrella for around 7000 INR, the YN 560 IV was priced about 8000.

I guarantee you the YN model would have better engineering and build quality, and last longer than any strobe at that price. You are likely comparing a very very low end off brand chinese unit to perhaps the highest quality chinese brand.

musicalhell said:
The problem lies with the choices we get here, in countries like US you have reputed affordable brands like Alienbees etc. Here we get a handful of choices of which 80-90% are Chinese rebrands with no service option at all. This was what I faced with getting a speedlight set up, If I wanted to get a softbox for the speedlight like the rapidbox I would have to get it via ebay or alibaba/express and this would be a questionable chinese brand with no after sales support.

This is another reason why I prefer older technologies. The lights I have are mechanical and the wiring is simple enough for any repair person to fix. Easier to fix than a lawnmower.

If I were you and had to get strobes, I would try to make my own modifiers. Cardboard. Gaffa tape. Mirror tape. Plastic bottles etc..

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

When I was considering continuous options I did a bit of digging and much like strobes the options were limited. The only LED arrays were small and the rest were either 1-3 CFL systems or some tungsten options from local brands.

I had reservations about the following:

For the amount of power I was told that the strobe puts out more light making it more energy efficient.

Click to expand...

This is true. I'm not sure what the power situation is there in India for you, but I know in Pakistan it's terrible. If I were you I'd get someone to check the wiring in that building to make sure it can handle what you want to do. Even if it is with strobes.

For me personally, the power output and efficiency is not a big deal. I won't be using high f/stops or trying to capture fast motion in my portraits. Nor will I be leaving them on for long durations since I shoot on film and only take a small number of frames per scene.

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, are you based there?

No, I'm in Australia. My family visits Pakistan often so they tell me what it's like.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

I wasn't sure if it can be used out doors during the day effectively unless they are truly powerful.

Click to expand...

This may end up being a concern with any light you get, depending on how you want to frame the shot and where the sun is etc. Even for strobe flash it's worth considering the use of a shade or diffuser over the subject to stop the sunlight from being so strong and to balance it with the light you are adding.

Click to expand...

This is true, but light-for-power wise I was led to believe that the higher output of the strobe would be better handle this kind of situation.

Sorry, I kind of forgot to answer your question. Yes and no. Depends on the light. You say you want the 200w/s or 400w/s model Elinchrom strobes.

My kit has 350w + 650w + 650w + 800w lights. So what I have will do a better job against sunlight than what you want to purchase. They are relatively low end on the power rating as well...

Here is an 18 thousand watt continuous HMI bulb used in cinema lights. I'm allowed to touch it cause it's broken. Lol.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

I was concerned about the lack of modifiers and if they would allow for the variety of lighting options that strobes allow.

Click to expand...

It could also be said the other way around. What Fresnel and open face lights (with spot and flood) offer with just a barndoor is different to what most strobes offer even with modifiers.

Click to expand...

I have been spending some time learning about lighting in video recently. I felt that they focus on making the lighting effective and impact full without drawing too much attention to it. Also they seem to use motivated lighting which may or may not always be the case in still photographs (not saying that this is in anyway bad).

They are usually trying to tell a story...

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

Given the smaller source of light doesn't the fresnel produce harder shadows?

Click to expand...

The fresnel is designed to produce a clean and more defined shadow, all the way from spot to flood.
If someone knows of newer designed lights that overcome some of the differences I've stated please let us know. There are always new things on the market and I don't read everything.

--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

Click to expand...

Dear Fmian,

Thank you for going out of your way for the examples! If I may ask, how does a softbox attach to these types of lights? I had assumed that the barn doors were an integral part of the light system and not truly removable. Would you mind sharing what kind of exposure settings you usually use with these lights?

I'll post an answer to this later.
--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

musicalhell · May 4, 2016

fmian said:
Same light quality? Perhaps. If they were very high end LED's. I think the main question at the moment is whether they are reliable or not.

LED lights in a flouro tube style design are a fairly new thing and are a much more complex electrical design than the actual flouro tubes that Kino Flo use, which have gases and powder in them. Same type of system that has been in use for a very long time, but Kino make them to a much higher standard than household tubes. Currently LED tube banks from a lesser known brand cost as much as the Kino equivalent.

So the older trustworthy technology is what people trust at the moment because it has had a long time to be perfected. Not LED though.
People still do that with the diffusers these days. Tape it onto an extension arm off another stand and it hangs further infront of the light than a softbox would. Is this what you have seen? It's actually more flexible than a contained softbox. If you have barndoors this kind of becomes a DIY softbox where you can position the diffuser closer or further away from the light source for different effect.

Well it was a video of a photographer by the name of Dean Collins, in these videos he used a strobe but diffused it using large scrims. In fact he used fewer lights than seen today and relied on reflectors and scrims to diffuse the light.

fmian said:
fmian said:

fmian said:

fmian said:

After due consideration I felt that grabbing strobes might be a better option since some time down the line I may want to use my gear on location.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. Just make sure the models you get have an external battery option. Not all strobes can do this.

Click to expand...

I'm getting the Elinchrom D-lite Rx 2/4 kit which I believe are portable

Click to expand...

I'm not seeing portable battery power as an option. Only mains supply. Do you want to double check their website? It's a bit confusing to me...
http://www.elinchrom.com/support/unit-specs.html

I'll confirm this when I get to the store. There seems to be some discrepancy on the information regarding what is given and at what price too. I've seen the D-lite rx4 being sold for 46k when it costs about 26k in other sources.

An ideal situation would be to have standard strobes for my studio space and speedlights for on location but I will have to wait and see as to how things turn out.

fmian said:
fmian said:

had initially wanted a full speedlight set up for the portability but when I compared the costs it turned out to be a bit more expensive. For example, when I bought my cheap strobe I got the head, stand, a basic reflector and a white umbrella for around 7000 INR, the YN 560 IV was priced about 8000.

Click to expand...

I guarantee you the YN model would have better engineering and build quality, and last longer than any strobe at that price. You are likely comparing a very very low end off brand chinese unit to perhaps the highest quality chinese brand.

Well I haven't used my strobe too much since I spent more time on location last year but the YN are very good indeed. The cheap strobes aren't really all that bad in the sense that a lot of photographers use them if they can't get the Elinchroms. To be honest comparing them would be like comparing apples and oranges haha.

We were charged 7-8k for those when in most countries they went for around 4-5k at most. Also when I bought the light I didn't plan on using lighting on location so I felt that the strobe would've been a better option.

The last year most of my work was documentary in nature so I didn't use flash much. It was as the year progressed that I decided to expand my horizons, learn more and essentially try be more, if that makes sense lol.

fmian said:
fmian said:

The problem lies with the choices we get here, in countries like US you have reputed affordable brands like Alienbees etc. Here we get a handful of choices of which 80-90% are Chinese rebrands with no service option at all. This was what I faced with getting a speedlight set up, If I wanted to get a softbox for the speedlight like the rapidbox I would have to get it via ebay or alibaba/express and this would be a questionable chinese brand with no after sales support.

Click to expand...

This is another reason why I prefer older technologies. The lights I have are mechanical and the wiring is simple enough for any repair person to fix. Easier to fix than a lawnmower.

If I were you and had to get strobes, I would try to make my own modifiers. Cardboard. Gaffa tape. Mirror tape. Plastic bottles etc..

The sad thing is we don't get things like gaffers tape either xD I confirmed this with the R&D head for 3M in India. I was looking for those A clamps yesterday so I have something to hold my reflector up and they were selling for 275 INR (4.2 USD) a piece and some of them were broken. Such is the sad state of affairs, this seems to make DIY where ever possible an important skill.

fmian said:
fmian said:

fmian said:

fmian said:

When I was considering continuous options I did a bit of digging and much like strobes the options were limited. The only LED arrays were small and the rest were either 1-3 CFL systems or some tungsten options from local brands.

I had reservations about the following:

For the amount of power I was told that the strobe puts out more light making it more energy efficient.

Click to expand...

This is true. I'm not sure what the power situation is there in India for you, but I know in Pakistan it's terrible. If I were you I'd get someone to check the wiring in that building to make sure it can handle what you want to do. Even if it is with strobes.

For me personally, the power output and efficiency is not a big deal. I won't be using high f/stops or trying to capture fast motion in my portraits. Nor will I be leaving them on for long durations since I shoot on film and only take a small number of frames per scene.

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, are you based there?

Click to expand...

No, I'm in Australia. My family visits Pakistan often so they tell me what it's like.

Ah, at the end of the day, the way things are change from place to place.

fmian said:
Sorry, I kind of forgot to answer your question. Yes and no. Depends on the light. You say you want the 200w/s or 400w/s model Elinchrom strobes.
My kit has 350w + 650w + 650w + 800w lights. So what I have will do a better job against sunlight than what you want to purchase. They are relatively low end on the power rating as well...

Here is an 18 thousand watt continuous HMI bulb used in cinema lights. I'm allowed to touch it cause it's broken. Lol.

Wow that is one big bulb! I guess that is true. Hm... true your set up would work better i guess haha. I think I will build up my lighting kit one piece at a time! For starters I will use the Elinchroms and as time progresses and as I gain a better idea of exactly what I will really need I'll add more strobes or continuous lights as needed.

I'm giving myself a year or two (as a start) to find people to shoot for and try experience as many different shooting scenarios as possible. I'm sure that the experience will truly help me grow and make better judgement.

fmian said:
fmian said:

I have been spending some time learning about lighting in video recently. I felt that they focus on making the lighting effective and impact full without drawing too much attention to it. Also they seem to use motivated lighting which may or may not always be the case in still photographs (not saying that this is in anyway bad).

Click to expand...

They are usually trying to tell a story...

True true, I think I didn't put forth my thoughts correctly :|. Let me try again: I like the way cinema lighting works for the simple reason that it never detracts the viewers attention but yet without it the scene wouldn't work.

My aim is to be able to do something similar in the future, where subtlety is key.

fmian said:
fmian said:

fmian said:

fmian said:

Given the smaller source of light doesn't the fresnel produce harder shadows?

Click to expand...

The fresnel is designed to produce a clean and more defined shadow, all the way from spot to flood.

If someone knows of newer designed lights that overcome some of the differences I've stated please let us know. There are always new things on the market and I don't read everything.

--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

Click to expand...

Dear Fmian,

Thank you for going out of your way for the examples! If I may ask, how does a softbox attach to these types of lights? I had assumed that the barn doors were an integral part of the light system and not truly removable. Would you mind sharing what kind of exposure settings you usually use with these lights?

Click to expand...

I'll post an answer to this later.

--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
IG: @primephotographysydney

I look forward to your response.

Thanking you,

Musicalhell

--

arjun prakash

Explore arjun prakash’s 37 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/

500px

500px.com

fmian · May 4, 2016

musicalhell said:
Well it was a video of a photographer by the name of Dean Collins, in these videos he used a strobe but diffused it using large scrims. In fact he used fewer lights than seen today and relied on reflectors and scrims to diffuse the light.

Okay.. I just saw one of his videos. It really inspires me to see people use practical methods to overcome gear limitations

And his results are fantastic.

musicalhell said:
The sad thing is we don't get things like gaffers tape either xD I confirmed this with the R&D head for 3M in India. I was looking for those A clamps yesterday so I have something to hold my reflector up and they were selling for 275 INR (4.2 USD) a piece and some of them were broken. Such is the sad state of affairs, this seems to make DIY where ever possible an important skill.

Nashua makes gaffer tape but for some reason they call it 357 duct tape. Here in Australia it's called 357 gaffer tape.

Berry Plastics owns Nashua (as far as I can tell) and they have a location in India.
http://catalog.berryplastics.com/products/adhesiv/duct-tape/adhesiv93357

Try these guys for A clamps. Free shipping throughout India for orders over rs 1000

http://www.tolexo.com/bessey-clippix-xc-tc04bes0587.html

musicalhell said:
True true, I think I didn't put forth my thoughts correctly :|. Let me try again: I like the way cinema lighting works for the simple reason that it never detracts the viewers attention but yet without it the scene wouldn't work.

My aim is to be able to do something similar in the future, where subtlety is key.

I like the way you think

Keep it subtle and take your time.

musicalhell said:
Thank you for going out of your way for the examples! If I may ask, how does a softbox attach to these types of lights? I had assumed that the barn doors were an integral part of the light system and not truly removable.

On my light a small thumbscrew is loosened and the little arm is moved out of the way so the barndoors can slide out. The softbox has the same ring attachment on it.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

Would you mind sharing what kind of exposure settings you usually use with these lights?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

ISO 200, F/8, 1/125s - Black and white conversion, and darkened the oranges in her face a bit, and gave it a small crop. Nothing else.

Well.. I still have to paint my space so I haven't used these lights on a living model yet, apart from some off site lighting I did a couple of weeks ago but I wasn't the one taking photos.
So Barbara will have to do for now. Apologies for the terrible hairpiece. She's due for a new one.
This is a shot from the setup I had posted a photo of above somewhere.

musicalhell · May 4, 2016

fmian said:
musicalhell said:

Well it was a video of a photographer by the name of Dean Collins, in these videos he used a strobe but diffused it using large scrims. In fact he used fewer lights than seen today and relied on reflectors and scrims to diffuse the light.

Click to expand...

Okay.. I just saw one of his videos. It really inspires me to see people use practical methods to overcome gear limitations And his results are fantastic.

Yep! Glad you liked it

fmian said:
fmian said:

The sad thing is we don't get things like gaffers tape either xD I confirmed this with the R&D head for 3M in India. I was looking for those A clamps yesterday so I have something to hold my reflector up and they were selling for 275 INR (4.2 USD) a piece and some of them were broken. Such is the sad state of affairs, this seems to make DIY where ever possible an important skill.

Click to expand...

Nashua makes gaffer tape but for some reason they call it 357 duct tape. Here in Australia it's called 357 gaffer tape.

Berry Plastics owns Nashua (as far as I can tell) and they have a location in India.
http://catalog.berryplastics.com/products/adhesiv/duct-tape/adhesiv93357

Try these guys for A clamps. Free shipping throughout India for orders over rs 1000
http://www.tolexo.com/bessey-clippix-xc-tc04bes0587.html

Thank you I will check those links! Actually I have a family friend staying in Melbourne at the moment and I was planning to ask him if he can pick up some stuff on his way back. Any recommendation for stores there? He will return in June I'm told.

fmian said:
fmian said:

True true, I think I didn't put forth my thoughts correctly :|. Let me try again: I like the way cinema lighting works for the simple reason that it never detracts the viewers attention but yet without it the scene wouldn't work.

My aim is to be able to do something similar in the future, where subtlety is key.

Click to expand...

I like the way you think Keep it subtle and take your time.

Well I got my 400 w/s lights with their 66cm soft boxes and I must say they are such a pleasure to work with compared to my cheap strobe. I was just photographing my D5200 to make sure everything was working well and the ability to control the lights hit me like a truck XD.

The coming few weeks are going to be so much fun haha! I found a brilliant little video which put the 100 w/s version of the lights to use. Granted that he has much larger working space, I should still be able to get some decent results in mine.

Elinchrom lighting basics #01

Elinchrom lighting basics #02

I think I should be able to put my gear to some good use given some time and effort. I now have a 4 and a half lighting kit!

fmian said:
fmian said:

Thank you for going out of your way for the examples! If I may ask, how does a softbox attach to these types of lights? I had assumed that the barn doors were an integral part of the light system and not truly removable.

Click to expand...

On my light a small thumbscrew is loosened and the little arm is moved out of the way so the barndoors can slide out. The softbox has the same ring attachment on it.

That's cool, how focused does the beam usually get? Can you attach a snoot or use the barn doors to use it as a rim light? Sorry for all the questioning/pestering haha!

fmian said:
fmian said:

fmian said:

fmian said:

Would you mind sharing what kind of exposure settings you usually use with these lights?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

ISO 200, F/8, 1/125s - Black and white conversion, and darkened the oranges in her face a bit, and gave it a small crop. Nothing else.

Well.. I still have to paint my space so I haven't used these lights on a living model yet, apart from some off site lighting I did a couple of weeks ago but I wasn't the one taking photos.
So Barbara will have to do for now. Apologies for the terrible hairpiece. She's due for a new one.
This is a shot from the setup I had posted a photo of above somewhere.

No worries, this kind of lighting reminds me of a book by a photographer by the name of Jane Brown (I think). I saw the book at someone's home and while I flipped through it I saw a photograph of Hugh Hefner and was immediately blown away. I was amazed how the photo-journalistic community managed to get such incredible results with just natural lights, not even reflectors!

Regards,
Musicalhell

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131433672@N03/
http://arjun-photog.deviantart.com/
https://500px.com/arjunphotog

Sailor Blue · May 4, 2016

musicalhell said:
Sailor Blue said:

musicalhell said:

Dear Master sailor,

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Please don't call me Master. I am far from a master of anything and when it comes to photography just an advanced amateur that is in no way on a par with many professionals. I offer advice when I can because I am a retired professional with the time available unlike working professionals.

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Aww okay , also just for the sake of making sure, by master I didn't intend it as 'Master of x', but more like 'Teacher sailor' perhaps proff would be better? xD. I will abstain if you don't like it though.

musicalhell said:

musicalhell said:

<snip>

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The bold letter stuff looks fine but I might offer a few suggestions.

Hold off on the purchase of the boom arm until you see a need for it. I have managed to do without one for over 5 years here in Thailand.<snip>

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I thought the boom would be useful for products.By lighting from above and using a white BG with reflectors would free my other lights for other purposes, granted this would be rather flat but in some cases I will be going exactly for that.

If you have a need for it then that is the time to buy it. If that time is now then now is the time to buy it.

musicalhell said:
musicalhell said:

For standing portraits 6' is a bit narrow and 12" is too short.

<snip>Here is a good tutorial on how to do pure white.

Zack Arias - Lighting White Seamless Pt. 1 - YouTube

Zack Arias - Lighting White Seamless Pt. 2 - YouTube

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Click to expand...

Thank you I will check the link, also when in the store I will check on larger BG cloth. That acrylic idea reminds me of some video where a product photographer shot through white plexiglass and used a black plexiglass to act as the reflective surface. Is it the same concept?

Yes, assuming you meant he backlit the white acrylic background.

One common wedding photograph is to place the rings on the screen of a tablet or phone that is turned off. The result is a picture of the rings on a shiny reflective black surface. Here is one that Scott Kelby took by using window light and placing the wedding rings on his iPhone.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Setting up a studio

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