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Am I expecting too much from the 15mm "Limited" prime?

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footerer

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I have used a few prime lenses on my m43 system, so know what benefits they can offer, but hadn't tried any on my Pentax K3, until getting my hands on one (2nd hand from the excellent Ffordes) - the 15mm "Limited".

Before buying, I had read up on some lens review sites that it tended to be a bit soft in the corners wide open, but considering the legendary reputation that these "limiteds" have among Pentax users, I thought that it was worth a punt.

Well, I've just managed to have a quick play today, dashing outside between the snow showers (typically late Spring weather in Scotland!) and comparing the Limited with my zoomed-out 16-85mm. I'm finding that the prime is a hair sharper in the centre of the frame, but the zoom lens out-resolves it in the fringes at every reasonable f-stop. I wasn't expecting this, and am a bit disappointed to say the least.

Admittedly, I've just had a cursory look at the sharpness, and haven't been able to assess the colour rendition or anything like that.

Apart from its really nice build quality, and compactness, is there any other advantage that I can expect from this "limited"?
 
The DA 15 does in fact have a reputation for less-than-stellar corners. The 16-85 has a reputation for edge-to-edge sharpness across the frame. What was that quote about doing the same thing and expecting different results? ;-)
footerer said:
I have used a few prime lenses on my m43 system, so know what benefits they can offer, but hadn't tried any on my Pentax K3, until getting my hands on one (2nd hand from the excellent Ffordes) - the 15mm "Limited".

Before buying, I had read up on some lens review sites that it tended to be a bit soft in the corners wide open, but considering the legendary reputation that these "limiteds" have among Pentax users, I thought that it was worth a punt.

Well, I've just managed to have a quick play today, dashing outside between the snow showers (typically late Spring weather in Scotland!) and comparing the Limited with my zoomed-out 16-85mm. I'm finding that the prime is a hair sharper in the centre of the frame, but the zoom lens out-resolves it in the fringes at every reasonable f-stop. I wasn't expecting this, and am a bit disappointed to say the least.

Admittedly, I've just had a cursory look at the sharpness, and haven't been able to assess the colour rendition or anything like that.

Apart from its really nice build quality, and compactness, is there any other advantage that I can expect from this "limited"?
Click to expand...
 
It's not so much that your expecting too much as expecting the wrong thing. Among the major design goals of the DA Limiteds, as opposed to the FA Limiteds, was emphasis on small size and light weight. Yes, the 15 is a little less sharp in the corners than the 16-85, but it's also lighter and much smaller. So it's just a matter of deciding on your priorities for a given situation and choosing which lens more closely meets them.
 
Corner sharpness may be a week point of the DA15 but usually it doesn't bother me.

There are a lot of situations where the DA15 stands out. What I like most of this lens:
  • ability to shoot against the sun
  • rich colors and good contrast
Cheers, Hans

3a94977463524d00acfe0278c2ea1074.jpg



025b92bc94584fa7a7c90f7b95e24c45.jpg



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--
www.hrfisch.com
 
Starburst with the DA
 
Since you said second hand, I'm guessing you got the sm-coated version, not the HD. The HD will be closer to the 16-85, which also has that latter coating.
 
If you are looking for best sharpness across the frame at f4, you wont get it with the DA15 limited. It is not a lens for pixel peepers, like the big modern and bright lenses.

The DA15 is known for its border softness and average sharpness fully open, it is best stopped down at f6.3 up to f16. It is a perfect landscape or architecture lens at these apertures, as it has very little distorsion and an outstanding resistance to flare. And it is very tiny and convenient with its built-in hood.

What DA15 or DA21 limited lenses will offer is compactness and light weight, an outstanding contrast, colour rendition and flare resistance, the best rendering in high contrast scenes, and a pop up of the in-focus subject.

This goes with a very good to outstanding sharpness in the center, but also a lot of field curvature which amplifies the corner softness at full aperture, and some chromatic lateral aberration and corner falloff (vigneting). Stopped down, the corner sharpness rises thanks to the increased depth of field, CA and corner falloff decrease to become barely noticeable.

Most of these aberrations are easily reduced either in-camera for jpegs, by enabling the corresponding features, or in PP for raws.

The limited lenses are optimized to produce out of camera eye catching images when watched as a whole, for instance on a 4K large computer or TV screen or printed at showroom size (A3/A2 or 16"x24").

To get same kind of appeal with high grade modern lenses, you usually need an advanced custom post-processing of the raw file.

Here are links to some of my son's pictures on flickr, using DA15 on K3:

https://flic.kr/p/AaHEzQ

https://flic.kr/p/zf12gT

https://flic.kr/p/AmUzBm

https://flic.kr/p/DJZ6uC

https://flic.kr/p/Ej1Ewn

And a link to one I shot with his DA15 on my K30:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/70066783@N06/25494843680/in/album-72157666509027225/

I really loved the DA15 rendering and I bought myself one this winter.
 
I have the 15mm but not the 16-85. But yes I notice corner sharpness is sometimes pretty mediocre, and it's different in the different corners of mine.

It's worth noting that some of the softness is due to chromatic aberration. If you correct for that, things improve significantly. I recently switched to Capture One to convert my RAW files and it has a built-in correction that seems to take in CA and also apply some extra sharpness at the edges.

Use that, and shoot at f/8, and the problem more or less goes away.

For the same reason, if you shoot jpeg, make sure the in-camera lens corrections are switched on.

But anyway, there's more to life than sharpness. The DA15 is brilliant shooting into the light because it has so little flare compared with a zoom. Also its lens hood is precisely tailored to the focal length, whereas the one on you 16-85 is tailored for 85mm so almost useless at 16mm. And remember, with a very wide-angle lens, the sun is very likely to be in or near your frame.

The 15mm also takes 49mm filters, which matters to me because that's the same as my 28mm and 50mm lenses.

Hope that helps cheer you up. If not I'm sure you'll get a good price selling it.

Paul
 
I have the DA 14 and allways hasitate to switch it for the DA15 but this pics make me think again.

Thanks for showing

Cheers

****
Tatouzou said:
If you are looking for best sharpness across the frame at f4, you wont get it with the DA15 limited. It is not a lens for pixel peepers, like the big modern and bright lenses.

The DA15 is known for its border softness and average sharpness fully open, it is best stopped down at f6.3 up to f16. It is a perfect landscape or architecture lens at these apertures, as it has very little distorsion and an outstanding resistance to flare. And it is very tiny and convenient with its built-in hood.

What DA15 or DA21 limited lenses will offer is compactness and light weight, an outstanding contrast, colour rendition and flare resistance, the best rendering in high contrast scenes, and a pop up of the in-focus subject.

This goes with a very good to outstanding sharpness in the center, but also a lot of field curvature which amplifies the corner softness at full aperture, and some chromatic lateral aberration and corner falloff (vigneting). Stopped down, the corner sharpness rises thanks to the increased depth of field, CA and corner falloff decrease to become barely noticeable.

Most of these aberrations are easily reduced either in-camera for jpegs, by enabling the corresponding features, or in PP for raws.

The limited lenses are optimized to produce out of camera eye catching images when watched as a whole, for instance on a 4K large computer or TV screen or printed at showroom size (A3/A2 or 16"x24").

To get same kind of appeal with high grade modern lenses, you usually need an advanced custom post-processing of the raw file.

Here are links to some of my son's pictures on flickr, using DA15 on K3:

https://flic.kr/p/AaHEzQ

https://flic.kr/p/zf12gT

https://flic.kr/p/AmUzBm

https://flic.kr/p/DJZ6uC

https://flic.kr/p/Ej1Ewn

And a link to one I shot with his DA15 on my K30:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/70066783@N06/25494843680/in/album-72157666509027225/

I really loved the DA15 rendering and I bought myself one this winter.

--
Tatouzou,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/70066783@N06/
Click to expand...
 
**** eduard said:
I have the DA 14 and allways hasitate to switch it for the DA15 but this pics make me think again.

Thanks for showing

Cheers

****
Click to expand...
Thank you ****.

As stated in my post, the 5 first pics were shot and PP by my son, which has a much better artistic feeling than me.

I will tell him you liked his pics.
**** eduard said:
**** eduard said:
Here are links to some of my son's pictures on flickr, using DA15 on K3:

https://flic.kr/p/AaHEzQ

https://flic.kr/p/zf12gT

https://flic.kr/p/AmUzBm

https://flic.kr/p/DJZ6uC

https://flic.kr/p/Ej1Ewn
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi

This lens is known for not being super sharp, whereas some of the limiteds are quite sharp.

This one is more reputed for the compact size and for a kind of starburst effect it makes with lights like the sun coming straight into the lens. Depends what you are looking for.

All the best

Ian
 
Really nice pictures by you and your son, highlighting the abilities of the DA15.

Kind regards

Maurits
 
I rented one years ago and took some shots of my garage/house from a distance with both the 15 and the DA 17-70 at 17mm.

Sure enough, as you found with the 16-85, the 17-70 beat the 15 until about f10 in the corners. Wide open the 17-70 was much sharper over the outer third of the frame. I was in shock. I will see if I can dig up those photos.

The 15mm has it's strengths as others have pointed out. It is great with direct light, has very good contrast and low distortion. Plus it focuses very closely, although so do the 17-70 and 16-85 . It overall should be a bit better for landscapes and buildings so long as it is stopped down. It might be a bit sharper than the zooms at longer distances, not sure though.

Still, if you have a good copy of the 16-85 that lens is so good at 16mm that it is hard to justify getting the 15mm or any prime in the focal length area unless you want to pack a bit lighter.
 
footerer said:
I have used a few prime lenses on my m43 system, so know what benefits they can offer, but hadn't tried any on my Pentax K3, until getting my hands on one (2nd hand from the excellent Ffordes) - the 15mm "Limited".

Before buying, I had read up on some lens review sites that it tended to be a bit soft in the corners wide open, but considering the legendary reputation that these "limiteds" have among Pentax users, I thought that it was worth a punt.

Well, I've just managed to have a quick play today, dashing outside between the snow showers (typically late Spring weather in Scotland!) and comparing the Limited with my zoomed-out 16-85mm. I'm finding that the prime is a hair sharper in the centre of the frame, but the zoom lens out-resolves it in the fringes at every reasonable f-stop. I wasn't expecting this, and am a bit disappointed to say the least.

Admittedly, I've just had a cursory look at the sharpness, and haven't been able to assess the colour rendition or anything like that.

Apart from its really nice build quality, and compactness, is there any other advantage that I can expect from this "limited"?
Click to expand...


49572f1429f84e3c977a229e0f53c2de.jpg



--
There is no such thing a "Pro" level gear, just Pro level work.
 
I try not to pack too much on my trips these days, so the DA-21mm and DA-15mm fill my needs very well. It may be true what you found about DA-15mm, but it's plenty sharp for me, and I usually stop down to F9.5 for landscapes.

Joey
 
Leandros S said:
Since you said second hand, I'm guessing you got the sm-coated version, not the HD. The HD will be closer to the 16-85, which also has that latter coating.
Click to expand...
I'd a choice of the 2 and thought that I'd done well to pick the HD version, especially as they were pretty much the same price. Now I wonder whether the SM would have been the one to go for with its starburst effect!
 
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