Why propriatary lens mounts?

FrancoD · Apr 25, 2016

Good thing that not one of us has any money invested in this because we would automatically branded greedy bastards.

The reason I say that is because some argue that manufacturers have propriety mounts because it is profitable, now you argue that they will have a universal mount because ..it is profitable to do so.

Hard to win isn't it ?

cookedraw · Apr 25, 2016

FrancoD said:
Good thing that not one of us has any money invested in this because we would automatically branded greedy bastards.

The reason I say that is because some argue that manufacturers have propriety mounts because it is profitable, now you argue that they will have a universal mount because ..it is profitable to do so.

Hard to win isn't it ?

So if I drive an old car that is not so evironmentally friendly, I hate the earth ?

FrancoD · Apr 25, 2016

cookedraw said:
FrancoD said:

Good thing that not one of us has any money invested in this because we would automatically branded greedy bastards.

The reason I say that is because some argue that manufacturers have propriety mounts because it is profitable, now you argue that they will have a universal mount because ..it is profitable to do so.

Hard to win isn't it ?

Click to expand...

So if I drive an old car that is not so evironmentally friendly, I hate the earth ?

cookedraw · Apr 25, 2016

If you understood me so, you misunderstood.

Gas is not environmentally friendly, but I need it for my car.

In same way a business need profit.

Greed is something else, in camera business it can be to nerf the timer function to support the more expensive models. That is greedy . To make profit is necessary.

Marty4650 · Apr 25, 2016

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/

whvick · Apr 25, 2016

My understanding is that when Canon went to EOS years ago it was to make a lens camera communication system that was better than the mechanical systems, and to some degree they achieved that, but left many stuck with older canon lenses.

I have some doubts that a universal system will arrive in time. Please, do not throw mud at me, but there are newer better things on the horizon. Liquid lenses, and better computerization. And heaven forbid, phone cameras that will find ways to rival dSLRs. These things are closer than a change to universal system to evolve.

cookedraw · Apr 25, 2016

Marty4650 said:
It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Alex Sarbu · Apr 25, 2016

cookedraw said:
Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

- the others will use a "standard" mount, instead of proprietary ones

- the existing mirrorless mounts will be obsoleted, and all users forced to jump ship to a "standard" mount?

Alex

cookedraw · Apr 25, 2016

Alex Sarbu said:
cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

Alex Sarbu said:
Alex

Alex Sarbu · Apr 25, 2016

cookedraw said:
Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

Click to expand...

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

Alex

cookedraw · Apr 25, 2016

Alex Sarbu said:
cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

Click to expand...

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

Click to expand...

I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

What ? , No I did not know that.
Nikon is a big player here so it's difficult to ignore they most likely will release a mount with adapter sooner or later. Their current cameras can't autofocus all their current lenses for that mount neither so all is fine. They could do a dumb adapter and then they could use a wifi adapter too. Wifi-adapter , smart, I need one for my phone.

Alex Sarbu said:
Alex

stevo23 · Apr 25, 2016

Brom78 said:
What are the advantages? Many years ago screw mounts proliferated in the same way usb connections do now. In my view its a pity there isn't an agreed universal standard mount that would give more choice to consumers. Instead of milking a captive consumer base tied to their mount, manufacturers would have to up their game regards quality and cost to compete.

I know its a pipe dream but I was curious as to what others opinions were.

M42 screw mounts are still around in cinema. But they had some disadvantages, so people came up with bayonet mounts. I can't be 100% certain, but there are two things that happen. 1) The manufacturers can ensure a steady stream of repeat business. If I sell you a camera, I know there's a good chance you'll come back for more lenses. 2) Patents - I suspect in light of 1) above, there had originally been some patents based around some of the designs of the bayonet mounts. This would have caused manufacturers to come up with their own clever designs to get around the patent infringement.

Thus, different mounts grew up and here we are.

Alex Sarbu · Apr 25, 2016

cookedraw said:
Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

Click to expand...

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

Click to expand...

I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

Click to expand...

What ? , No I did not know that.
Nikon is a big player here so it's difficult to ignore they most likely will release a mount with adapter sooner or later.

Are you talking about a proprietary mount or a "standard" mount? This distinction is the entire point of the discussion.

cookedraw said:
Their current cameras can't autofocus all their current lenses for that mount neither so all is fine.

Wrong generalization; quite a few Nikon cameras can autofocus with all AF F-mount lenses ever made.

cookedraw said:
They could do a dumb adapter and then they could use a wifi adapter too. Wifi-adapter , smart, I need one for my phone.

Alex

cookedraw · Apr 25, 2016

Alex Sarbu said:
cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

Click to expand...

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

Click to expand...

I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

Click to expand...

What ? , No I did not know that.
Nikon is a big player here so it's difficult to ignore they most likely will release a mount with adapter sooner or later.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about a proprietary mount or a "standard" mount? This distinction is the entire point of the discussion.

Alex Sarbu said:

Their current cameras can't autofocus all their current lenses for that mount neither so all is fine.

Click to expand...

Wrong generalization; quite a few Nikon cameras can autofocus with all AF F-mount lenses ever made.

Do not matter. What matters is how many of nikon users that will get a better experience by changing to an universal mount or a mirrorless with adapter.

Alex Sarbu said:
Alex Sarbu said:

They could do a dumb adapter and then they could use a wifi adapter too. Wifi-adapter , smart, I need one for my phone.

Click to expand...

Alex

Alex Sarbu · Apr 25, 2016

cookedraw said:
Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

Click to expand...

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

Click to expand...

I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

Click to expand...

What ? , No I did not know that.
Nikon is a big player here so it's difficult to ignore they most likely will release a mount with adapter sooner or later.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about a proprietary mount or a "standard" mount? This distinction is the entire point of the discussion.

cookedraw said:

Their current cameras can't autofocus all their current lenses for that mount neither so all is fine.

Click to expand...

Wrong generalization; quite a few Nikon cameras can autofocus with all AF F-mount lenses ever made.

Click to expand...

Do not matter. What matters is how many of nikon users that will get a better experience by changing to an universal mount or a mirrorless with adapter.

You are changing the subject, from "universal mount" to mirrorless propaganda.

Regardless, here is the answer: those Nikon F-mount users could have jumped ship already, to one of the mirrorless mounts. They didn't.

And I'll remind you that an "universal mount" means that current mirrorless users would be forced to change their lenses. Your talk about adapters is ignoring this aspect.

Alex

cookedraw · Apr 25, 2016

Alex Sarbu said:
cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

Click to expand...

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

Click to expand...

I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

Click to expand...

What ? , No I did not know that.
Nikon is a big player here so it's difficult to ignore they most likely will release a mount with adapter sooner or later.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about a proprietary mount or a "standard" mount? This distinction is the entire point of the discussion.

Alex Sarbu said:

Their current cameras can't autofocus all their current lenses for that mount neither so all is fine.

Click to expand...

Wrong generalization; quite a few Nikon cameras can autofocus with all AF F-mount lenses ever made.

Click to expand...

Do not matter. What matters is how many of nikon users that will get a better experience by changing to an universal mount or a mirrorless with adapter.

Click to expand...

You are changing the subject, from "universal mount" to mirrorless propaganda.

Regardless, here is the answer: those Nikon F-mount users could have jumped ship already, to one of the mirrorless mounts. They didn't.

And I'll remind you that an "universal mount" means that current mirrorless users would be forced to change their lenses. Your talk about adapters is ignoring this aspect.

First , no one is forced to stop using anything they already have.

Second, the current state is that mirrorless have a short flange distance mount that can use all dslr lenses and changed the playfield. Sony do now have a huge advantage because their cameras can use almost all lenses ever made and they can autofocus too. It would be very naive to imagine that Canon don't need to react to this new playfield. A universal mount could level the playfield. The other option is to compete by making the shortest flange distance and no one want that. The third option is to ignore. After all , a universal mount is maybe not that bad.

Alex Sarbu said:
Alex

Smaug01 · Apr 25, 2016

I haven't read the other 90+ responses, so forgive me for any duplication.

One thought: If I were Nikon, I wouldn't want to design a lens that could help my competitors sell cameras.

Another thought: Tamron tried this, with the Adapt-all lenses, back in the 80s. This was before autofocus and IS came into play, so it should've been simple. It failed.

With mirrorless, I think it is becoming more common to just have an adapter and use other lenses. With my Pentax Q7, there are tons of adapters available. The Pentax-branded one even has a leaf shutter included. C-mount is a common adaptation for it too.

Sony & Zeiss optics for Sony mirrorless cameras are so expensive that there is a flourishing aftermarket for adapted lenses for them.

I agree though, that it would be nice to not HAVE to adapt them. But they have to try to make us buy their stuff, right?

Alex Sarbu · Apr 25, 2016

cookedraw said:
Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

Click to expand...

It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

Click to expand...

Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

Click to expand...

What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

Click to expand...

I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

Click to expand...

What ? , No I did not know that.
Nikon is a big player here so it's difficult to ignore they most likely will release a mount with adapter sooner or later.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about a proprietary mount or a "standard" mount? This distinction is the entire point of the discussion.

cookedraw said:

Their current cameras can't autofocus all their current lenses for that mount neither so all is fine.

Click to expand...

Wrong generalization; quite a few Nikon cameras can autofocus with all AF F-mount lenses ever made.

Click to expand...

Do not matter. What matters is how many of nikon users that will get a better experience by changing to an universal mount or a mirrorless with adapter.

Click to expand...

You are changing the subject, from "universal mount" to mirrorless propaganda.

Regardless, here is the answer: those Nikon F-mount users could have jumped ship already, to one of the mirrorless mounts. They didn't.

And I'll remind you that an "universal mount" means that current mirrorless users would be forced to change their lenses. Your talk about adapters is ignoring this aspect.

Click to expand...

First , no one is forced to stop using anything they already have.

But forcing an "universal" mount means no further lenses nor cameras for the current mounts. In other words, people will be forced to buy into the new system, at their expense.

cookedraw said:
Second, the current state is that mirrorless have a short flange distance mount that can use all dslr lenses and changed the playfield.

Is this about banning DSLRs? Nice try... but it won't happen.

cookedraw said:
Sony do now have a huge advantage because their cameras can use almost all lenses ever made and they can autofocus too. It would be very naive to imagine that Canon don't need to react to this new playfield. A universal mount could level the playfield. The other option is to compete by making the shortest flange distance and no one want that. The third option is to ignore. After all , a universal mount is maybe not that bad.

You're not paying attention, or perhaps you're intentionally ignoring the impact on mirrorless users, who would have to throw away their lenses and start from scratch. Not to say that many DSLR users have no intention of going MILC.

Perhaps it's time to give up on you.

Alex

FrancoD · Apr 25, 2016

Another thought: Tamron tried this, with the Adapt-all lenses, back in the 80s. This was before autofocus and IS came into play, so it should've been simple. It failed.

Not at all. Tamron achieved very good sales with the Adaptall (1 and 2) series of lenses.

Shops liked the idea that they could have 1 lens and sell it to pretty much any customer that walked through their door , regardless of what 35mm camera they owned.

Tokina also had its own version of the interchangeable mount system , sold as T4 by Vivitar and Soligor.

That did not work all that well because of some compatibility problems.

One ,say, PK adaptor worked on a lens but not another.

cookedraw · Apr 26, 2016

Alex Sarbu said:
cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Alex Sarbu said:

cookedraw said:

Marty4650 said:

It cannot be called "an act of greed" because it would level the playing field. It would result in all competitors using the same mount and electrical connections, thus forcing them to compete solely on value, performance and quality.

If anything, it could be something like an "act of altruism." But with qualifications, because there will be winners and losers. But most of all, it would be highly disruptive for an industry already facing some serious challenges.

It would be something that would benefit competitors, while simultaneously hurting anyone heavily invested in one particular lens system. But, it would also greatly benefit new users, who now have more competitive choices to make.

But there are fewer and fewer of those "new users" in a shrinking market. And the anger generated by a new universal mount would cause existing users cannot be underestimated.

Those existing users would now be in the position of having to replace their lenses, start using some cumbersome adapters, or buying a new "universal mount" camera body. This could result in a complete marketing nightmare at this point.

And because of all that, it is highly unlikely it could ever happen.

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It will happen anyway , sooner or later their aps-c mount will go mirrorless.
They don't have to replace lenses. Nikon will probably never stop producing FF DSLR cameras , they still do produce a SLR film camera.

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Really? What makes you so sure?

So far, all manufacturers who launched mirrorless systems did so using proprietary mounts (including m4/3). What makes you think that:

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What mirrorless aps-c mount do Nikon have to fall back to ?
Small adapter related problems will come no matter what.

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I see you are avoiding my question; actually removing it altogether. Instead, you're continuing with blanket statements.

OK, Nikon doesn't have a large sensor mirrorless mount. But Canon, Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm, Panasonic do have such things. It won't be a "standard" mount if only Nikon is using it, you know?

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What ? , No I did not know that.
Nikon is a big player here so it's difficult to ignore they most likely will release a mount with adapter sooner or later.

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Are you talking about a proprietary mount or a "standard" mount? This distinction is the entire point of the discussion.

Alex Sarbu said:

Their current cameras can't autofocus all their current lenses for that mount neither so all is fine.

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Wrong generalization; quite a few Nikon cameras can autofocus with all AF F-mount lenses ever made.

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Do not matter. What matters is how many of nikon users that will get a better experience by changing to an universal mount or a mirrorless with adapter.

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You are changing the subject, from "universal mount" to mirrorless propaganda.

Regardless, here is the answer: those Nikon F-mount users could have jumped ship already, to one of the mirrorless mounts. They didn't.

And I'll remind you that an "universal mount" means that current mirrorless users would be forced to change their lenses. Your talk about adapters is ignoring this aspect.

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First , no one is forced to stop using anything they already have.

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But forcing an "universal" mount means no further lenses nor cameras for the current mounts. In other words, people will be forced to buy into the new system, at their expense.

Only governments can force and it's very unlikely.

An industry standard is not forced, it's a standard manufacturers can use if they want.

Alex Sarbu said:
Alex Sarbu said:

Second, the current state is that mirrorless have a short flange distance mount that can use all dslr lenses and changed the playfield.

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Is this about banning DSLRs? Nice try... but it won't happen.

?

Alex Sarbu said:
Alex Sarbu said:

Sony do now have a huge advantage because their cameras can use almost all lenses ever made and they can autofocus too. It would be very naive to imagine that Canon don't need to react to this new playfield. A universal mount could level the playfield. The other option is to compete by making the shortest flange distance and no one want that. The third option is to ignore. After all , a universal mount is maybe not that bad.

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You're not paying attention, or perhaps you're intentionally ignoring the impact on mirrorless users, who would have to throw away their lenses and start from scratch. Not to say that many DSLR users have no intention of going MILC.

It's not likely that someone will force people to throw away lenses.

If you are right, it sounds like a good business strategy for Nikon.

It seem to be a fundamental misunderstanding with the backwards compability Canon,Nikon and Pentax offer by using an ancient mount. It is backwards compatible , not future proof.

Loyal Olympus users have understood this. Olympus have changed mount 2 times instead of releasing multiple mounts with adapters like Nikon,Canon and Pentax.

Hats off to Olympus.

Alex Sarbu said:
Perhaps it's time to give up on you.

Alex

--
" Use the shutter button on the headset cord " - Leonardo Da Vinci

Why propriatary lens mounts?

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