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I see donuts in the bokeh through the viewfinder of my new 6D

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Tony Pulokas

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I just bought a 6D, and while testing it I noticed that I tend to see small dark donut shapes in the center of the extremely out-of-focus highlight spots in the viewfinder. This was with an f/2.8 and an f/3.5 lens. The donuts don't seem to be there at all in the exposed images. I've owned a 5D ("Mark I") for 10 years, and I had often noticed how the blur looks different in the viewfinder than it does in the exposed image. However, in the 5D, I never noticed anything as severe as these donuts I'm seeing in the 6D.

I've noticed that the donuts aren't always apparent, but seem to be strongest at a particular focus point, and fade out at other focus points, all while the highlights can be very much out of focus.



I've recently learned that these cameras have interchangeable focusing screens, and that can have a significant impact on what you see through the viewfinder, although I've never tried anything other than the factory-installed focusing screen.



Are these effects in the viewfinder what I should expect, or could it be that my camera is defective? Is it something that could be remedied by getting a focusing screen like the Canon Eg-S?

I've posted a basically identical question on StackExchange , but so far haven't gotten an answer that satisfies the most important part of my question: is this normal or should I be getting it fixed?

Here is an example of what the camera recorded (the lens was Canon EF180mm f/3.5L Macro USM)

Here is an example of what the camera recorded (the lens was Canon EF180mm f/3.5L Macro USM)



I used Photoshop to approximate what it looks like through the viewfinder. I may be missing the mark a little bit on exactly how large or dark these donuts appear to be, but this seems pretty close.

I used Photoshop to approximate what it looks like through the viewfinder. I may be missing the mark a little bit on exactly how large or dark these donuts appear to be, but this seems pretty close.
 
Oceanmist said:
After reading this I checked my 6d I'm getting the exact same donut shapes in the viewfinder. No problem with the images only on the viewfinder the background blur is cluttered with black donut shapes. Anyone know what or why this is?
Click to expand...
Are the donuts always at the same place in the viewfinder or do they move, dependant upon the blur in the image?
 
I went to a camera store today and looked through the viewfinder of their floor model using my same 180 mm f/3.5 lens. I was able to see the same little donuts at the center of the defocused highlights. Oceanmist affirmed seeing the same thing previously in this thread. Although it constitutes a pretty small sample size, I'm pretty comfortable concluding that this is just what you have to expect with the 6D. I can't say I'm happy about that, but it's not really a dealbreaker, either.

I also looked through the viewfinder of the 5D Mk III in the store, and the bokeh looked distinctly smoother, without the donuts.

Thanks to everyone for the responses.
 
It's not a deal breaker at all just kind off odd if you pay attention to it. I can live with it the images are great. So,is this with all 6ds?
 
Hi Tony, Just a few questions.

Can we get a copy of your original raw file for this picture?

Please post a picture taken with your 2.8 lens along with the brand and focal length.

Walter Sr.

Tony Pulokas said:
I just bought a 6D, and while testing it I noticed that I tend to see small dark donut shapes in the center of the extremely out-of-focus highlight spots in the viewfinder. This was with an f/2.8 and an f/3.5 lens. The donuts don't seem to be there at all in the exposed images. I've owned a 5D ("Mark I") for 10 years, and I had often noticed how the blur looks different in the viewfinder than it does in the exposed image. However, in the 5D, I never noticed anything as severe as these donuts I'm seeing in the 6D.

I've noticed that the donuts aren't always apparent, but seem to be strongest at a particular focus point, and fade out at other focus points, all while the highlights can be very much out of focus.

I've recently learned that these cameras have interchangeable focusing screens, and that can have a significant impact on what you see through the viewfinder, although I've never tried anything other than the factory-installed focusing screen.

Are these effects in the viewfinder what I should expect, or could it be that my camera is defective? Is it something that could be remedied by getting a focusing screen like the Canon Eg-S?

I've posted a basically identical question on StackExchange , but so far haven't gotten an answer that satisfies the most important part of my question: is this normal or should I be getting it fixed?

Here is an example of what the camera recorded (the lens was Canon EF180mm f/3.5L Macro USM)

Here is an example of what the camera recorded (the lens was Canon EF180mm f/3.5L Macro USM)

I used Photoshop to approximate what it looks like through the viewfinder. I may be missing the mark a little bit on exactly how large or dark these donuts appear to be, but this seems pretty close.

I used Photoshop to approximate what it looks like through the viewfinder. I may be missing the mark a little bit on exactly how large or dark these donuts appear to be, but this seems pretty close.
Click to expand...
--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits! :)
 
I don't have a RAW of that image, so I took a couple new ones

These were with the Canon Macro EF 180 mm 1:3.5 L. I just noticed that you specified the f/2.8 lens, so I'll take one with that after I finish this post.



IMG_0636 . CR2 File on Google Drive . Powerlines about 30 ft away are approx. in focus, but leaves about 1-3 feet away are blurred.
IMG_0636 . CR2 File on Google Drive . Powerlines about 30 ft away are approx. in focus, but leaves about 1-3 feet away are blurred.

I used Photoshop to approximate where the donuts are. As I studied the scene through the viewfinder, I realized that I'm not conveying how the blur seems to be filled with fine lines and rainbows (well-focused scenes are not).
I used Photoshop to approximate where the donuts are. As I studied the scene through the viewfinder, I realized that I'm not conveying how the blur seems to be filled with fine lines and rainbows (well-focused scenes are not).

Just for reference, here is the same scene with the focus on foreground
Just for reference, here is the same scene with the focus on foreground



IMG_0638. CR2 file on Google Drive .
IMG_0638. CR2 file on Google Drive .

Again I Photoshopped in the donuts. The sun is reflecting off of a car windshield, and the rainbows in the blur seemed really intense here.
Again I Photoshopped in the donuts. The sun is reflecting off of a car windshield, and the rainbows in the blur seemed really intense here.
 
This one was taken with the Canon TS-E 90mm 1:2.8. The donuts were extraordinarily well developed in this shot, but I won't try to draw them. I could see that the fine lines seem to radiate outward from the center of the frame. They only appear in the blurred areas through the viewfinder, not in the exposed photo.



CR2 file on Google Drive .
CR2 file on Google Drive .
 
Oceanmist said:
It's not a deal breaker at all just kind off odd if you pay attention to it. I can live with it the images are great. So,is this with all 6ds?
Click to expand...
That's what I'm choosing to believe right now, but that's based on my camera, yours, and the one I examined in the shop, plus the fact that nobody has chimed in saying, "I have a 6D, and I looked for this phenomenon but couldn't find it."

A caveat is that the camera shop didn't have much that I could view that was likely to produce the donuts. However, I felt like there was a big difference in how things looked through the 6D vs. the 5D3. Through the 6D the blur readily showed the fine lines that radiate throughout the scene. I was strongly believing that the donuts were caused by the mirror design, as several folks have suggested here. However, I find it easy to believe that the fine lines are an artifact of the microlensing on the focusing screen, as loitokitok suggested. Hey--maybe both problems are at play!

Also interesting is that I hadn't noticed this being mentioned in any reviews of the 6D that I read. Of course, I'm probably the weirdo for actually caring what the blur looks like in the viewfinder, and maybe some reviews did talk about it but it didn't catch my attention.
 
Same here Tony glad you brought it up no one has mentioned it or never really emphasised it enough. It's not really a problem when you're only paying attention to your subject. I'd like to know if all 6ds have this or only certain batches?
 
In a product review for the Canon Eg-S focusing screen on Amazon , someone posted actual photos through the viewfinder. In the photo through the Eg-A II screen (the default screen for the 6D) you can clearly see a little red donut on the lower right of the blurred-out computer monitor.

I don't know exactly how the photos were taken, but I hope to experiment on it myself. I ordered an Eg-S yesterday, so I hope to have before and after pics.

I read every review of the Eg-S, and I found that everyone talks about whether it improves focus precision (of course). Nobody talks about whether it removes artifacts from the blur. It seems that I'm one of few people in the world that cares about this, and the only way I'm going to find out is by trying it myself!
 
Tony Pulokas said:
In a product review for the Canon Eg-S focusing screen on Amazon , someone posted actual photos through the viewfinder. In the photo through the Eg-A II screen (the default screen for the 6D) you can clearly see a little red donut on the lower right of the blurred-out computer monitor.

I don't know exactly how the photos were taken, but I hope to experiment on it myself. I ordered an Eg-S yesterday, so I hope to have before and after pics.

I read every review of the Eg-S, and I found that everyone talks about whether it improves focus precision (of course). Nobody talks about whether it removes artifacts from the blur. It seems that I'm one of few people in the world that cares about this, and the only way I'm going to find out is by trying it myself!
Click to expand...
Interesting that you can have artefacts created by the focusing screen, the texture of the screen must be producing this.

Well done in getting to the bottom of this.
 
I got my Canon Eg-S focusing screen delivered today, and it makes a world of difference. My viewfinder now seems to provide a good WYSIWYG view.

Here is a photo of the Eg-A II screen that was in the camera by default. When you hold it at arm's length, this psychedelic pattern appears. I think it's now pretty clear where the donuts were coming from--this seems to be the Platonic ideal of the donuts I saw replicated in the bright spots in the blur. The Eg-S shows a similar pattern, but there doesn't seem to be nearly so much of a dark ring in it.

0825dfc8cb5f495bbb32a93a52a591b4.jpg
 
Tony Pulokas said:
The Eg-S shows a similar pattern, but there doesn't seem to be nearly so much of a dark ring in it.
Click to expand...
The dark ring?

I thought is was destroyed or lost a long time ago.
 
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