The Great Paper Chase

fotografer · Aug 3, 2003

Hi there Rob,

Wow. Hard at work, eh?

Robert Schoner said:
The print from the Epson 925 by the Epson rep was a different
story. First was the print on my Kodak PPP paper. The same as at
Best Buy. The ink globbed on the sunsets and the same artifacts
appeared in the diagonal lines on image 10. He then used Epson
Matte paper (that's all he had; I guess they can't just open up a
store package of paper). He changed something in the print command
(remember we are printing directly from the Smart Media card) and
we got a borderless 8.5 x 11. Image 11 was great but started to
get some graininess on the sunsets. I suspect we enlarged too
much.

These series of images are 'selected' to show a printer's common limitations. I have read from Kris Kadela and others, for instance, that sunsets are notorious for inkjet printers to print clean. Summer blue sky is another one.

Robert Schoner said:
The lines (Fig 10) did not have the diamonds but still had
some artifacts. The diagonal lines (first 2) have a cross hatch
pattern to them and the vertical and horizontal bars have some
degree of banding/shading. After several false starts and a new
ink cart he finally was able to print a 5x7 (actually 2 on the
page, so they were rotated). The diamonds in fig 10 shifted to the
right two diagonal lines. The other bars still had the dark/light
banding. The overall image had some vertical banding. I suspect
this was due to the new cart; he did not do a head clean or
alignment. At this point I had taken up about 2 hours of his time
and I am convinced the Epson 925 can do a good job with image 10.
I think he was too; especially when I showed him the HP print.

Yes, sometimes banding is more evident when you've just changed a cart.

Robert Schoner said:
So based on all this I will probably end up with the 7150. I know
there is more to printing then the ability to produce fine gray
lines but it does seem to be showing a limitation of the Epson. I
wonder if anyone else has tried to print your test on the Epson 925
or comparable printer. If you're interested, I can scan the test
images. I just don't know how to post them.

Yes, there are more to just plain resolution capability. Actually, when it comes to resolution, the 600 native Canon i950 is better at it than the 1200dpi native resolution HP ps71x50. I have this confirmed by a i950 user Chris (WmAx) and I will receive his prints soon.

Robert Schoner said:
BTW. The Epson rep was so interested in your test image he made a
copy from my smart mdia card. Hope that's ok.

Ah, Epson is conscientious (sp?) this way. They will find a way to tweak it to Epson's advantage.

Just don't ask him to sell it. The image is meant more for private/dpreview forum users to look into printer's performance, as they contain some images made by our webmaster, Phil. If he is going to use it for demo prints all over the country, then it might be a problem with copyright.

Take care.

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )

fotografer · Aug 3, 2003

The testchart resolution is 600 ppi at 4x6.

That's 300ppi for a 8x12. So if one prints in 8.5x11, the input res is still about 300ppi, and this is more than adequate for most inkjet printers to handle for good quality prints.

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )

picfan · Aug 3, 2003

fotografer said:
Any comments are welcome!

This information is great! I just discovered this post, funny as I was going to post a question on photo paper. I have the hp7550 and with a new digital camera was excited to see the prints. Now, I'm getting more observent about the paper. I found "spots" on 4 or 5 photos printed on Kodak Premium high gloss (you don't mention them for testing) after being in a album for a month. I'm wondering if they didn't dry long enough? I find some photos with a lot of black in the picture will stick in an album. I have also been using the hp premium plus glossy paper which does fine. I am anxious to try the Epson paper you tested. I don't know if my small city (US) carries Fuji or the Ilford paper that you gave good reviews about. Your mention of the roller noise as the paper goes in is interesting, hadn't thought that it was because of the backing difference on papers. Your information is so helpful. Thanks!

fotografer said:
--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo

fotografer · Aug 4, 2003

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )

Brian Wadie · Aug 4, 2003

fotografer said:
Any comments are welcome!

fotografer, followed up your advice and tried the Epson Premium Glossy photo paper on my HP psc 2115 all-in-one.

As you predicted a superb result and dry as it came out of the machine.

No problem picking up a single sheet.

Not sure yet how I feel about the B&W result, but I believe the Epson paper takes time to "develop" full grey tones?

Much better than any of the HP papers I have tried.

Many thanks, keep up the good work, Brian

Drestin Black · Aug 4, 2003

Papers like Kodak will never dry enough not to stick in albums and to glass. It's because it's non-porous paper and the ink lays on the surface. It's not water resistant, therefore any amount of humidity will make it tacky. It will also come off with damp fingertips. Fotografer says one of the hp papers does not do this, but by far most of them do. I stay awah from hp or kodak on any printer. I have both HP and canon and will not use them in either.

picfan said:
fotografer said:

Any comments are welcome!

Click to expand...

This information is great! I just discovered this post, funny as I
was going to post a question on photo paper. I have the hp7550 and
with a new digital camera was excited to see the prints. Now, I'm
getting more observent about the paper. I found "spots" on 4 or 5
photos printed on Kodak Premium high gloss (you don't mention them
for testing) after being in a album for a month. I'm wondering if
they didn't dry long enough? I find some photos with a lot of
black in the picture will stick in an album. I have also been
using the hp premium plus glossy paper which does fine. I am
anxious to try the Epson paper you tested. I don't know if my
small city (US) carries Fuji or the Ilford paper that you gave good
reviews about. Your mention of the roller noise as the paper goes
in is interesting, hadn't thought that it was because of the
backing difference on papers. Your information is so helpful.
Thanks!

picfan said:

--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo

Click to expand...

picfan · Aug 4, 2003

Drestin Black said:
Papers like Kodak will never dry enough not to stick in albums and
to glass. It's because it's non-porous paper and the ink lays on
the surface. It's not water resistant, therefore any amount of
humidity will make it tacky. It will also come off with damp
fingertips. Fotografer says one of the hp papers does not do this,
but by far most of them do. I stay awah from hp or kodak on any
printer. I have both HP and canon and will not use them in either.

What brand of paper do you use in your printers?

Drestin Black said:
picfan said:

fotografer said:

Any comments are welcome!

Click to expand...

This information is great! I just discovered this post, funny as I
was going to post a question on photo paper. I have the hp7550 and
with a new digital camera was excited to see the prints. Now, I'm
getting more observent about the paper. I found "spots" on 4 or 5
photos printed on Kodak Premium high gloss (you don't mention them
for testing) after being in a album for a month. I'm wondering if
they didn't dry long enough? I find some photos with a lot of
black in the picture will stick in an album. I have also been
using the hp premium plus glossy paper which does fine. I am
anxious to try the Epson paper you tested. I don't know if my
small city (US) carries Fuji or the Ilford paper that you gave good
reviews about. Your mention of the roller noise as the paper goes
in is interesting, hadn't thought that it was because of the
backing difference on papers. Your information is so helpful.
Thanks!

Drestin Black said:

--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

karenaxe · Aug 4, 2003

fotografer said:
I have to say ONE thing. The 4.2 years estimate is 'display' life,
and I specifically said under room illumination of 275lux of
average 8 hours exposure. If it's kept in albums, then it would be
more than 5 years, definitely.

I have prints done in Photoret II inks (no.23, not known for
longevity at all), in some mitsumishi (spelling?) nanoporous
papers, and they are still fabulous in albums.

BUT, the display ones, even under glass, has undergone visible
color shifts, not drastic, but noticeable. So perhaps if they
decide to display the prints, then the Classic series from Ilford
is still your best bet.

Good luck!!!

Giovanni Russello said:

fotografer said:

Wow. That's quite expensive for the 25pcs Ilford.

Click to expand...

Yes I know!!

fotografer said:

I think it's the best in terms of giving long-lasting prints. I
don't understand 13x18, though, I am assuming you mean centimetre,
not inches. Because the printer width cannot go beyond 8.5 inch.

Click to expand...

Yes I think so too. Even If I belive that the Smooth Pearl could
last longer than 5 years in a album. But better to be sure.
13x18 is in cm.

Looking forward to for a new wide and true bordless hp printer
based on photoret IV.

--
See my gallery at http://131.155.68.83/index.htm

Click to expand...

--
fotografer
...the great paper chase! (see
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )

I bought the Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl here in Berlin--I think it is cheaper than Epson. I am using it with my Epson 2100 and was told I would get long lasting prints with it. So far the quality is excellent. I emailed the Ilford technical dept and got a helpful email back right away.

--
karenaxe

Drestin Black · Aug 4, 2003

picfan said:
Drestin Black said:

Papers like Kodak will never dry enough not to stick in albums and
to glass. It's because it's non-porous paper and the ink lays on
the surface. It's not water resistant, therefore any amount of
humidity will make it tacky. It will also come off with damp
fingertips. Fotografer says one of the hp papers does not do this,
but by far most of them do. I stay awah from hp or kodak on any
printer. I have both HP and canon and will not use them in either.

Click to expand...

What brand of paper do you use in your printers?

I see you are in the UK so my answer is not going to help you. I use Office depot paper now and have used it for quite some time starting in the hp's several years ago. It's a porous paper and dries pretty much immediately to the touch and it's water resistant. This paper does not seem to have a history of it but some porous paper, like canon ppp, might have gas fading in not put behind glass or in album sleeves if you live in an area where there is gas fading. It seems to me that if you are going to stick pictures up unprotected (where they will not get damp or wet) then the best bet is to use the non-porous like the kodak. If putting behind glass or in album sleeves then use porous paper.

Now to get back to youir original question I guess I would probably give konica paper a try over there as there was some speculation that they made it for office depot. Fujifilm also has papers available there that are not available here. I would probably give those a try. I know ilford has porous papers that are supposed to be very good, but I'm nor really familiar as I've almost exclusively gone to office depot. Since fotografer is in your neck of the woods he may be able to better help you on papers that are porous or "dry completely". Sorry I can't be of more help on the brands.

picfan said:
picfan said:

picfan said:

fotografer said:

Any comments are welcome!

Click to expand...

This information is great! I just discovered this post, funny as I
was going to post a question on photo paper. I have the hp7550 and
with a new digital camera was excited to see the prints. Now, I'm
getting more observent about the paper. I found "spots" on 4 or 5
photos printed on Kodak Premium high gloss (you don't mention them
for testing) after being in a album for a month. I'm wondering if
they didn't dry long enough? I find some photos with a lot of
black in the picture will stick in an album. I have also been
using the hp premium plus glossy paper which does fine. I am
anxious to try the Epson paper you tested. I don't know if my
small city (US) carries Fuji or the Ilford paper that you gave good
reviews about. Your mention of the roller noise as the paper goes
in is interesting, hadn't thought that it was because of the
backing difference on papers. Your information is so helpful.
Thanks!

picfan said:

--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

fotografer · Aug 4, 2003

Drestin,

Drestin Black said:
fingertips. Fotografer says one of the hp papers does not do this,
but by far most of them do. I stay awah from hp or kodak on any
printer. I have both HP and canon and will not use them in either.

I can't remember mentioning this. But there is one, not very common, 'paper' from HP, called the Premium Glossy Film, and it's plastic, much like the Pictorico High Gloss White (film) that is water-resistant. But that paper is extremely weak in terms of protection against gas fading. The HP Premium Glossy Film gives exceptional print quality, much like the Pictorico one.

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )

fotografer · Aug 4, 2003

Hi Picfan (and Drestin),

Drestin Black said:
Now to get back to youir original question I guess I would probably
give konica paper a try over there as there was some speculation
that they made it for office depot. Fujifilm also has papers
available there that are not available here. I would probably give
those a try. I know ilford has porous papers that are supposed to
be very good, but I'm nor really familiar as I've almost
exclusively gone to office depot. Since fotografer is in your neck
of the woods he may be able to better help you on papers that are
porous or "dry completely". Sorry I can't be of more help on the
brands.

All these suggestions are good choices. You might find in the review of individual papers that Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper does well in terms of rendering water-proof inks and a healthy light-fastness estimate to boot. I can't vouch for the gas-fading resistance of this paper, just like I won't be able to vouch for other ceramic/nanoporous papers' susceptible to gas fading in certain conditions with dye inks, HP ones included...

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )

fotografer · Aug 7, 2003

Note that when the pbase folks do their spring cleaning, the above link to the level 10 4x6 colortest file may be made unavailable.

Please note that an updated colortest file at level 11 compression (2.45MB, instead of 1.78MB of the previous version) with less artifacts, is now available to download for private printer quality evaluation. Kindly don't sell this testfile to any commercial bodies.

http://upload.pbase.com/image/19613265/original

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )

Lothman · Aug 9, 2003

In the current issue #17 (page 154-169) the german computer magazin c't (one of the few renowned) testet 55 different foto papers on the printers HP 7550, Lexmark P707, Epson 2100 amd 950, Canon i950.

pity no online article
http://www.heise.de/ct/

very much stuff and very small printed so hard to show here.

by
Lothman

RKral · Oct 4, 2003

Lothman;

PLEASE can you tell us some of the results? I don't read German, and you aslo said there is no online article anyway.

I own the Canon i950 and would LOVE to know what was recommended.

PLEASE can you tell me whats best for the i950?

The Canon recommended paper (Canon Photo Paper Pro) looks great at first but fades SUPER FAST if not protected. I am thinking of trying the Ilford, as its resin coated too.

Lothman said:
In the current issue #17 (page 154-169) the german computer magazin
c't (one of the few renowned) testet 55 different foto papers on
the printers HP 7550, Lexmark P707, Epson 2100 amd 950, Canon i950.

pity no online article
http://www.heise.de/ct/

very much stuff and very small printed so hard to show here.

by
Lothman

Igoforit · Oct 13, 2003

fotografer,

Let me start with saying that I am impressed with your test! Excellent job!

Anyone who has used this paper on the HP 7960? What about the pizzawheel marks? I don´t have them with the latest HP PPPP paper, but I do have them with the older versions.

Thanks in advance to anyone who could share their experiences with this combination.

Jos

fotografer said:
Any comments are welcome!

--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo

RKral · Oct 19, 2003

fotographer, and others!

What settings do you use for the swellable papers??

I have tried using Kodak premium today to see if fading is better (less) with this swellable resin coated paper, for the CANON i950. I made some prints and planned to leave them unprotected for 4 months.

Well, I dont think I will even wait to find out: the results are terrible: the colors are way off compared to the Canon PPP, and there is blotching and banding in large sections of the print. This blotching and banding is very very visible, and does not require a closer look. These results are completely unacceptable. I first tried Kodak's recommended settings for the i950, buyt also tried various other settings in both the printer driver and in Photoshop.

Interestingly, Kodak recommedns the "plain paper setting" for the premium glossy. Does that sound right?

I am really looking for a non fading paper as I'd like to stick with the i950, but this is proving very difficult.

I have yet to try Ilford classic, which comes recommended HIGJLY in the paper hase (it wins!!) (but not necessarily recommended for the i950 specifically).

If Ilford fails, it might be time to put the printer up on ebay, but I wish I could find the look and accuracy, and smoothness (IE no banding or blotching) of the Canon papers but with longer life. I wish Canon would release its own Resin Coated paper for the i series.

ANY SUGGESTIONS??!!

Bob Harmon · Oct 20, 2003

fotografer said:
Any comments are welcome!

--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo

--
fotografer,

Are the pizza wheel indentations less with the hp7550 (7xxx series)as compared to the
hp 7960 ? (assuming you are using the same paper in both machines)

Looking at the threads on this issue, there seem to be more complaints on pizza wheels with the 7960. I guess the real question would be are the
7550 and 7960 the same mechanically as far as the paper feed wheels and

same pressure on the paper, etc. If they are then the pizza wheel problem would be entirely a function of the paper used. However I am guessing that there must be a mechanical difference with the 7960 to
receive more complaints on this issue. ?

Bob Harmon

WINGnutsDAD · Oct 20, 2003

Why are you recommending the "glossy" setting for this "matte" paper? I have found the "matte" setting works best. HP claims "matte" works best. Was this perhaps a typo?
--
JLC
MyWorld Studios - Madison,MS

darrylr · Oct 20, 2003

Ilford Classic Peal works very well with the i950 and should last much longer than Canon PPP. I use almost exclusively Classic Pearl with my i950. It is about 1/2 the price on PPP as well.

I think this thread here is dealing more with what works on the HP 7??? series of printers and not necessarily what paper is good or not in general.

-Darryl

RKral said:
fotographer, and others!

What settings do you use for the swellable papers??

I have tried using Kodak premium today to see if fading is better
(less) with this swellable resin coated paper, for the CANON i950.
I made some prints and planned to leave them unprotected for 4
months.

Well, I dont think I will even wait to find out: the results are
terrible: the colors are way off compared to the Canon PPP, and
there is blotching and banding in large sections of the print. This
blotching and banding is very very visible, and does not require a
closer look. These results are completely unacceptable. I first
tried Kodak's recommended settings for the i950, buyt also tried
various other settings in both the printer driver and in Photoshop.
Interestingly, Kodak recommedns the "plain paper setting" for the
premium glossy. Does that sound right?

I am really looking for a non fading paper as I'd like to stick
with the i950, but this is proving very difficult.

I have yet to try Ilford classic, which comes recommended HIGJLY in
the paper hase (it wins!!) (but not necessarily recommended for
the i950 specifically).

If Ilford fails, it might be time to put the printer up on ebay,
but I wish I could find the look and accuracy, and smoothness (IE
no banding or blotching) of the Canon papers but with longer life.
I wish Canon would release its own Resin Coated paper for the i
series.

ANY SUGGESTIONS??!!

RKral · Oct 20, 2003

darrylr said:
Ilford Classic Peal works very well with the i950 and should last
much longer than Canon PPP. I use almost exclusively Classic Pearl
with my i950. It is about 1/2 the price on PPP as well.

I think this thread here is dealing more with what works on the HP
7??? series of printers and not necessarily what paper is good or
not in general.

Thanks Darrylr,

Yes, the Great Paper Chase is performed on an HP, I realise. I just wasn't sure where else to post this question. It is extremely helpful for me to know that you are getting good results with Ilford Classic Pearl on the i950 specifically. I'll order some of that paper today.

Could you please tell me what settings you are using for the Ilford, in your i950 printer driver? This might save me a lot of time and paper!

Also, have you tried Ilford Classic Glossy on your i950?

Lastly: it seems Ilford Classics do not come in a 4x7 size...what do you use on your i950 for 4x7?

Thanks again,

Rob

The Great Paper Chase

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Active member

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Active member

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Leading Member

Forum Enthusiast

Active member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Forum Enthusiast

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts