Monitor suitable for calibration

I am in the process of setting up a color-calibrated environment: Monitor, Printer, if needed Camera too.
While talking to the X-rite dealer, he suggest the only 'true calibratable' monitor is Benq PG 240.
I found it is pretty pricey.
Is it true, this is the only one and no alternative ?

Wide angle landscapes said:

I am in the process of setting up a color-calibrated environment: Monitor, Printer, if needed Camera too.
While talking to the X-rite dealer, he suggest the only 'true calibratable' monitor is Benq PG 240.
I found it is pretty pricey.
Is it true, this is the only one and no alternative ?

Click to expand...

NO

Sounds like he has a PG 240 he would like to sell.

Maybe your informant means something with gamut control and hardware LUT? Above my head.

Wide angle landscapes said:

I am in the process of setting up a color-calibrated environment: Monitor, Printer, if needed Camera too.
While talking to the X-rite dealer, he suggest the only 'true calibratable' monitor is Benq PG 240.
I found it is pretty pricey.
Is it true, this is the only one and no alternative ?

Click to expand...

If you want really good monitor performance colour wise you go for NEC Spectraview or Eizo ColorEdge screens.

They are the gold standard monitor ranges.

Wow, either your dealer wanted only to sell the Benq or he doesn't know what he's talking about. Nearly EVERY monitor can be calibrated, at least to some level, but all monitors like all cars have their certain features & specs & pros & cons & price levels & you get what you pay for. I'd also suggest that unless the prices are the lowest available from this dealer, that you RUN AWAY as fast as possible & do some learning online first, as he will likely cost you a lot of money. The X-Rite is on sale at B&H 2-3 times a year, sometimes for huge savings.

ONE MAJOR THING WITH ALL MONITORS, is to determine WHAT IS YOUR END FILE OUTPUT INTENDED TO BE USED FOR????? If you are only editing ever for the web & other low end typical user monitors, then that low bit workflow is VERY different than if you want to output high res, high bit (16 bit), from RAW file Master Files? You don't specify but I see you have a Sony A7 & a good Epson printer, so I assume that you'll want capabilities for using files to their max.

Start reading here with a recent article:


Go to this website TFTCentral to research most good monitors (& maybe refer it to your ill informed "dealer" as a must read for him)

Here is their review of the Benq 2401. Nothing special. Check out the Dell U2413 which sounds similar from my brief glance at this review.


Read & search this & the Retouching Forum about monitors, displays, color calibration, etc., as these topics COME UP A LOT!!!!! There is a wealth of info already here, no matter your budget. But you do get what you pay for. Whether you need that or not is up to you. NEC & EIZO high end models are pretty much the most reliable & highest quality. Make sure you have a high end, high bit video card like an NVidia Quadra to also take advantage of this type of calibration, laptops don't have it.

The most cost effective solution is the Dell Ultrasharp line with mated Xrite calibrator and software for Windows. Sadly the software does not access the LUTs in OS X but uses manual calibration. This software will also do a good job of automatically calibrating the Dell 4K non Ultrasharp monitors.

Calibration is only one part of color managed printing. How you process raw images, color space and bit depth, are equally or more important.

It is entirely possible to develop a print workflow that does not require color management particularly if you use jpegs.

If you do not print why bother with calibration? Do you calibrate yout HDTV?

Brainstorming....

Going through your educating posts, I think my ' X-Rite dealer' is entirely not a greedy one: he quoted just below $2500 for the Benq PG240.

Now, since much more information fed to me, i found other options too opened to me to choose from, as something to start with and later to upgrade.

Though plan a humble start, my final aim and requirement is high-end, a quality print, at least a very faithful 1:1 reproduction of oil paintings, to satisfy the artist and the buyer. Thats why I bought those basic hardware, of quality: the A7r and Epson 9900.

Now times are bad: instead of investing a lot more on a perfect, gold standard Monitor, if I can start with some thing 'bare minimum', I am happy.

If anybody can suggest something, I will be thankful and pick up one that allows my pocket out of them. Because I know, once taken off, one monitor wont be enough, I can go for a best one with confidence.

Thank you all for the valuable advice...
I expect more !

Cariboo said:

Here is their review of the Benq 2401. Nothing special. Check out the Dell U2413 which sounds similar from my brief glance at this review.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_pg2401pt.htm

Read & search this & the Retouching Forum about monitors, displays, color calibration, etc., as these topics COME UP A LOT!!!!! There is a wealth of info already here, no matter your budget. But you do get what you pay for. Whether you need that or not is up to you. NEC & EIZO high end models are pretty much the most reliable & highest quality. Make sure you have a high end, high bit video card like an NVidia Quadra to also take advantage of this type of calibration, laptops don't have it.

Click to expand...

Seems like in the BenQ the uniformity compensation works well, in the Dell equivalent models not in a desirable way...

By the price of this BenQ 2401, *much* better choice(quality/bang for the buck) an Ezio CS 240, the review and Amazon has it for $799.00.

Not "perfect" like the Eizo mentioned in my previous post, but more than good enough is the LG 31MU97-B, it is a big impressive 4K 31" size wide gamut monitor with excellent resolution 4096x2160 + hardware calibration, the review here and Amazon has it for $956.43

BTW, you must check if your GPU can handle the resolution in 60Hz.

Wide angle landscapes said:

Brainstorming....
Going through your educating posts, I think my ' X-Rite dealer' is entirely not a greedy one: he quoted just below $2500 for the Benq PG240.

Click to expand...

Well he may not be greedy, but IMO, given your situation & budget, I think it was a bad recommendation. I'd go with a NEC Spectraview or Eizo, at that price. The Benq is newish, the only one in their line up with those specs, & the NEC's & Eizo have been around for a much longer time & have a very good reputation for quality. So, I think the is giving you bad advice & just wants to make a sale.

For paintings, I'd think that panel uniformity would be a very desirable feature, though your clients probably won't have a similar panel anyway to judge.

Look for posts here by Andrew Rodney, or search his website, http://digitaldog.net/ . I believe he swears by NEC Spectraview but it may be out of your budget but I think less than your dealer's Benq PG240 rip off price. Actually the Spectraview with calibration device may be about the same price & would be THE monitor to get over the Benq IMO. You should compare the NEC's & Eizo's to the Benq if you are at all considering the Benq.

The Dell U2413 is not perfect for panel uniformity, mine is pretty good to the far edges, and may be an affordable starting point, as it also goes on sale at times from Dell, Amazon or B&H, etc..

Good luck, let us know what you end up with to help others decide.

A HUGE range of monitors can be calibrated. The nicest ones have high bit-depth tables that are stored directly in the monitor itself. In lower level monitors you may find that the correction tables are stored in the graphics card, and maybe only at an 8-bit depth. Higher bit depths can theoretically limit the residual color errors to a little smaller values.

There are possible pitfalls in monitor selection. Monitors that use IPS panels (in-panel-switching) work really well in terms of color invariance when you change your viewing position. Lesser-tech monitors can certainly be calibrated (I have been there / done that) but the calibration only applies to when you are exactly centered on the screen and viewing it straight on. Shift your head by several inches left or right and the image shifts green or magenta. Shift up or down and the image dims and then goes negative. The term "annoying" doesn't even begin to describe the frustrations resulting from that.

As mentioned before tftcentral's site is invaluable. I ended up going with NEC SpectraView because of the superior uniformity and also the very high tolerance of off-angle viewing. However you definitely pay a premium for NEC and you will see many Dell and HP monitors with similar buzzwords in their specs at half the price or less. Rely on tftcentral to see how well the available choices actually perform.

I don't know what NEC ships nowadays for their bundled SpectraView calibrator dongle. The one I have from several years ago was obviously made by X-Rite but has NEC's logo printed on it, not X-Rite's. NEC claims they are specially calibrated. Today I am using a different, regular X-Rite dongle with SpectraView and it works fine; the SpectraView software does not know the difference.

Well, I will take your valuable recommendations as much possible on the monitor.

Then what calibration software ?
Can I do satisfactorily with a Color Munki or which?

Any cost-effective solution, which will do the job, sans a big name or fanfare, please ?

I am looking for a minimum needed solution.

just Tony said:

There are possible pitfalls in monitor selection. Monitors that use IPS panels (in-panel-switching) work really well in terms of color invariance when you change your viewing position. Lesser-tech monitors can certainly be calibrated (I have been there / done that) but the calibration only applies to when you are exactly centered on the screen and viewing it straight on. Shift your head by several inches left or right and the image shifts green or magenta. Shift up or down and the image dims and then goes negative. The term "annoying" doesn't even begin to describe the frustrations resulting from that.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you mean TN monitors. I once calibrated a VA monitor where shifting position only means you get lower contrast, and at more extreme angles the color shifts to yellow. Green or magenta wouldn't be too nice. Now trying to figure out why text did not look as good on VA as was expecting. I am not really worried by the drawbacks of IPS, but for someone obsessed with contrast for some reason, like watching a lot of movies, VA is worth a try.

Wide angle landscapes said:

Well, I will take your valuable recommendations as much possible on the monitor.
Then what calibration software ?
Can I do satisfactorily with a Color Munki or which?
Any cost-effective solution, which will do the job, sans a big name or fanfare, please ?

Click to expand...

Fotoart2 said:

I am looking for a minimum needed solution?

Click to expand...

Yes a Color Munki can help, but for the sake of what, $100 or less, the X-Rite Display Pro is a better longer term solution. It's not just the calibration device but HOW IT FITS into the computer & monitor set up. HARDWARE calibration is better than software, ESPECIALLY if you are going to try to match & output copy work oil painting reproductions. No offence, but it doesn't sound to me as though you have much experience with any of this & so let me tell you that color, tone, contrast matching & then output to print is not as easy as you think or hope, especially on a low end set up. What is your photography lighting set up? What are your clients like, how demanding? How accurate do you have to be? It's not as easy as just taking a photo of a painting & printing it out. You are in for a lot of learning & hair pulling unless the resulting prints don't have to be that accurate. Low end equipment or shortcuts will be frustrating & cost you a LOT of money in wasted paper & ink. You think that monitors & calibration devices are expensive, wait until you start going through inks.

Read the article several times that I sent you & do more research. Take baby steps. You could get a Ferrari of equipment, but still be a lousy taxi driver for your clients.

Finally, it ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR OUTPUT FILE NEEDS AND ACCURACY OF THE PRINTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THINK OUTPUT NEEDS TO DETERMINE INPUT NEEDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cariboo said:

Wide angle landscapes said:

Well, I will take your valuable recommendations as much possible on the monitor.
Then what calibration software ?
Can I do satisfactorily with a Color Munki or which?
Any cost-effective solution, which will do the job, sans a big name or fanfare, please ?

I am looking for a minimum needed solution?

Click to expand...

Yes a Color Munki can help, but for the sake of what, $100 or less, the X-Rite Display Pro is a better longer term solution. It's not just the calibration device but HOW IT FITS into the computer & monitor set up. HARDWARE calibration is better than software, ESPECIALLY if you are going to try to match & output copy work oil painting reproductions. No offence, but it doesn't sound to me as though you have much experience with any of this & so let me tell you that color, tone, contrast matching & then output to print is not as easy as you think or hope, especially on a low end set up. What is your photography lighting set up? What are your clients like, how demanding? How accurate do you have to be? It's not as easy as just taking a photo of a painting & printing it out. You are in for a lot of learning & hair pulling unless the resulting prints don't have to be that accurate. Low end equipment or shortcuts will be frustrating & cost you a LOT of money in wasted paper & ink. You think that monitors & calibration devices are expensive, wait until you start going through inks.

Read the article several times that I sent you & do more research. Take baby steps. You could get a Ferrari of equipment, but still be a lousy taxi driver for your clients.

Finally, it ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR OUTPUT FILE NEEDS AND ACCURACY OF THE PRINTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THINK OUTPUT NEEDS TO DETERMINE INPUT NEEDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

TO THE OP

Cariboo has some very good info here.

I reproduce some of my wife's oil paintings & there is a learning curve for sure. I photo with a gray card in the scene & process in LightRoom. If you are always shooting under same studio light then create a custom white balance for your camera.

I print on a 3880 & get very, very good results. At least my wife loves then & she does want a very close print. She is present when I make the final adjustments in LR.

I use an Eizo CX241 calibrated with a ColorMunki Photo. If I may be of more help send me a pm.

Hope you are happy with your decision.

I have a NEC, and bought a cheap BenQ for the wife.

The BenQ is nice, but at your price range, I too would go with a NEC/Eizo.

Wide angle landscapes said:

Well, I will take your valuable recommendations as much possible on the monitor.
Then what calibration software ?

Click to expand...

The manufacturer software, for NEC is the Spectraview software, Eizo is the ColorNavigator, for the Dell/BenQ/LG is some type of a custom made X-rite version capable of accessing the monitor internal LUT, check their sites...

Fotoart2 said:

Can I do satisfactorily with a Color Munki or which?

Click to expand...

No, you need an i1DisplayPro + a X-rite Passport to be able to match an oil paint.

Fotoart2 said:

Any cost-effective solution, which will do the job, sans a big name or fanfare, please ?

Click to expand...

Any Dell/BenQ/LG/Asus wide gamut will have good enough colors, but
the main difference from an Eizo ColorEdge/NEC PA is panel uniformity...
The hardware calibration in the Dell/BenQ/LG/Asus may also not be
100% perfect, but can remedy by doing a software calibration with Argyll+dispCAL
after the hardware calibration.

For example, with the Dell the panel uniformity usually does not work or when it work it
makes the calibration bad... So if you can live with a monitor that does not have
a perfect uniform screen, a Dell can be a good choice.
Another problem is what people call "panel lottery", the quality of the panel
varies, in the NEC PA/Eizo ColorEdge they are always top quality in the others not... That means if you are luck you can get a good Dell/BenQ/LG/Asus monitor with a good enough homogen screen, but if you are not you may get a model that have some type of color cast in the screen corner, like the left corner side is more green or magenta or warmer/cold.

So here 2 solutions, the cheaper Dell and the safe Eizo:
-You can get a Dell UP2516D and maybe will be satisfied or not.
-You can get an Eizo CS240 and will be satisfied.

This guy got a Dell UP2516D and is satisfied.
This other got a Dell UP2716D and was not satisfied.
Seems that everybody here in the forum that got an Eizo CS240 is satisfied, here one example.

Try the Dell, if not good enough send it back and get an Eizo ColorEdge or NEC PA.

. . . . . . . .

About color management and soft proofing you will find good stuff at
http://digitaldog.net/ and do not miss the"Why are my prints too dark VIDEO"

Pictus said:

Can I do satisfactorily with a Color Munki or which?

No, you need an i1DisplayPro + a X-rite Passport to be able to match an oil paint.

Click to expand...

FYI for the OP: the X-rite software that makes custom color profiles from the Colorchecker Passport only generates DNG color profiles. This is absolutely fine if you live within the Adobe ecosystem. There are, however, some applications like Capture One Pro that only use ICC color profiles. For these the Colorchecker Passport loses a vast majority of its intended functionality.

Billiam29 said:

Pictus said:

Can I do satisfactorily with a Color Munki or which?

No, you need an i1DisplayPro + a X-rite Passport to be able to match an oil paint.

Click to expand...

FYI for the OP: the X-rite software that makes custom color profiles from the Colorchecker Passport only generates DNG color profiles. This is absolutely fine if you live within the Adobe ecosystem. There are, however, some applications like Capture One Pro that only use ICC color profiles. For these the Colorchecker Passport loses a vast majority of its intended functionality.

Click to expand...

You can use DCamProf to create an ICC profile, but it needs a bigger reference target than the Passport and also a spectrometer, so it is cheaper and much less complicated to use Adobe stuff or Photo Ninja.

I'd be inclined to find a dealer who knows what he's talking about, rather than one who just wants to sell you stuff.