Would you switch to this system (POLL)

mahidoes · Mar 3, 2016

This manufacturer has only 2 camera bodies equipped with APS-C sensor with the crop factor of 1.6x. Every 2 years it will update these bodies. Some time it might take long to update assuming there are no technical break troughs.

A) Body 169

Has 16:9 sensor

B) Body 32

Has typical 3:2 sensor

Common features

1) Auto focusing is similar if not better than A7RII and the EVF is like Fuji XT-1 (Yes these are mirror less cameras with OSPDAF).

2) EVF has all features provided by other manufacturers including focus peaking and magnification.

2) Lens has aperture ring and leaf shutter

3) No PASM. There for aperture and shutter speed should be set. but the ISO can be set to Auto.

4) Lens do not have Image stabilisation but the sensor has IBIS.

5) All lens has at least 1:3 magnification.

6) 4K video

7) It has zebra function as well as life histogram

8) If you shoot RAW images histogram is derived from RAW image even thought the image is going to be jpg thumbnail preview

10) RAW format is Adobe DNG.

Lens roadmap

At the time of release. (Please mind the 1.6x crop factor there for 22mm is 35mm)

Primes: 22mm f/2.8 pancake lens , 22mm f/1.2, 53mm f/1.2, 100mm f/2 macro

Zooms: 15-44mm f/1.8 , 44-125 f/1.8, 10-22 f/2

Next year
Primes: 400mm f/4 (Weight 1250g) , 31mm f/1.8, 10mm f/2 with 1:2 magnification.
Zoom: 100-400mm (Weight 1300g)

Finally a prime: 84mm f/1.2

Also explain your reason in comment.

Glen Barrington · Mar 3, 2016

For me, the key to good photography is getting to know your gear and working that knowledge into your work.

Leonard Migliore · Mar 3, 2016

I'm not going to buy a bunch of lenses with shutters.

mahidoes · Mar 3, 2016

is that because they will add cost?

GodSpeaks · Mar 3, 2016

Better question: Why would I want to? It offers nothing compelling.

Max Iso · Mar 3, 2016

No, bc i know nothing about the lens performance, let alone sensor. Are the lenses $3000 each? Do they have bad distortion? good or bad corners? sharpness wide open? How is battery life? can i add a battery grip? On top of all this, i rather dislike using EVFs.

Leonard Migliore · Mar 3, 2016

ms18 said:
is that because they will add cost?

Cost, opportunity for failure and change of actual shutter speed with f/stop.

fmian · Mar 3, 2016

ms18 said:
APS-C

No.. but I'll continue anyway..

mahidoes said:
A) Body 169

Has 16:9 sensor

B) Body 32

Has typical 3:2 sensor

Why not just offer a crop view/capture mode on the 3:2 camera? Is this the only difference between cameras?

mahidoes said:
Common features

1) Auto focusing is similar if not better than A7RII and the EVF is like Fuji XT-1 (Yes these are mirror less cameras with OSPDAF).

What about manual focus performance/handling?

mahidoes said:
2) EVF has all features provided by other manufacturers including focus peaking and magnification.

Can I sharply view what is or isn't in focus exactly how the lens shows it, without the overlay stuff on it? Of I can't, then no.

mahidoes said:
2) Lens has aperture ring and leaf shutter

Not a deal breaker... but I prefer less moving parts in my lenses.

mahidoes said:
3) No PASM. There for aperture and shutter speed should be set. but the ISO can be set to Auto.

Auto ISO but no shutter or aperture priority? Strange.... ISO is the first thing I lock down, I almost never need it to be Auto unless it's for photos I don't take too seriously.

mahidoes said:
4) Lens do not have Image stabilisation but the sensor has IBIS.

5) All lens has at least 1:3 magnification.

6) 4K video

None of this is a big deal for me. If I want magnification I use tubes or a macro lens.

mahidoes said:
7) It has zebra function as well as life histogram

Is this a video camera or a stills camera? Who is it suited to?

mahidoes said:
8) If you shoot RAW images histogram is derived from RAW image even thought the image is going to be jpg thumbnail preview

So the histogram doesn't match what the screen shows me? What's the point of that? Why not just have a built in RAW viewer instead of JPG?

mahidoes said:
10) RAW format is Adobe DNG.

Would rather it have Adobe Camera Raw built in...

mahidoes said:
Lens roadmap

At the time of release. (Please mind the 1.6x crop factor there for 22mm is 35mm)

Primes: 22mm f/2.8 pancake lens , 22mm f/1.2, 53mm f/1.2, 100mm f/2 macro

No standard focal length (equivalent) lens at launch??

mahidoes said:
Zooms: 15-44mm f/1.8 , 44-125 f/1.8, 10-22 f/2

They sound massive and expensive...

mahidoes said:
Next year
Primes: 400mm f/4 (Weight 1250g) , 31mm f/1.8, 10mm f/2 with 1:2 magnification.

Is this a fast shooting camera? FPS?

Why no 31mm f/1.2? Why skimp on the standard focal length aperture?
Why no 90-105mm equiv Macro?

mahidoes said:
Zoom: 100-400mm (Weight 1300g)

okay...

mahidoes said:
Finally a prime: 84mm f/1.2

Nice..

mahidoes said:
Also explain your reason in comment.

Sounds like a low end camera body system with high end APSc lenses.. but still.. the lenses don't excite me when they already have similar (+ more) FF lenses on the market.

tony field · Mar 3, 2016

NOTHING there would make be change for my photography. The curiosity item would be the leaf shutter in the lens if it would allow at least 1/1000 second .... useful for synchro-sun outoor flash shooting (like the Leica S2 or Phase One lenses). The other curiosity item would be the raw histogram ... sometimes useful.

APSC etc makes it an absolute no-go.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

FrancoD · Mar 3, 2016

All you have there is a bunch of numbers that presumably sound appealing to you but we have no idea of the ergonomics, optical quality, finish, durability or anything else that is not just a number.

ttran88 · Mar 3, 2016

Nah I don't need anymore APSC Mirrorless offerings, bring on the A7 competitors.

mahidoes · Mar 3, 2016

fmian said:
Why not just offer a crop view/capture mode on the 3:2 camera? Is this the only difference between cameras?

Yes this is the only difference. Because why waste the sensor using crop mode. 16:9 might be usefull for movie takers and landscape shooters. 3:2 will be usefull for those who take portrait oriented shots. Some may choose to buy both.

fmian said:
What about manual focus performance/handling?

Will be okay as it contain focus peaking and focus magnification. It is in concept formation stage.

fmian said:
but I prefer less moving parts in my lenses.

Can you explain why?

fmian said:
Auto ISO but no shutter or aperture priority? Strange.... ISO is the first thing I lock down, I almost never need it to be Auto unless it's for photos I don't take too seriously.

This camera mainly in favour of people who want control over photography and movies. It has manual controls some what similar to what Fuji cameras has but It lack Auto in Aperture ring and Shutter dial. There for you should set your Aperture and Shutter your self. But for urgent situations we have Auto ISO. And the Auto ISO will work well as that is the only way of getting Auto exposure. FYI exposure metre will be there when you lock down exposure. Exposure compensation will only work If the ISO set to Auto. Other wise you are suppose to compensate using Aperture or Shutter speed your self

fmian said:
Is this a video camera or a stills camera? Who is it suited to?

Both. Photographers who love manual controls and People who shoot movies.

fmian said:
So the histogram doesn't match what the screen shows me? What's the point of that? Why not just have a built in RAW viewer instead of JPG?

Because real RAW preview look like grey tinted jpg. May be that actual RAW preview option can be added via menu setting. But the histogram is from actual RAW preview if the camera set to RAW only.

fmian said:
fmian said:

Lens roadmap

At the time of release. (Please mind the 1.6x crop factor there for 22mm is 35mm)

Primes: 22mm f/2.8 pancake lens , 22mm f/1.2, 53mm f/1.2, 100mm f/2 macro

Click to expand...

No standard focal length (equivalent) lens at launch??

22 mm with 1.6x crop factor yield 35mm which is considered standard FL.

fmian said:
fmian said:

Zooms: 15-44mm f/1.8 , 44-125 f/1.8, 10-22 f/2

Click to expand...

They sound massive and expensive...

Bit expensive than sigma's f/1.8 zooms

fmian said:
fmian said:

Next year
Primes: 400mm f/4 (Weight 1250g) , 31mm f/1.8, 10mm f/2 with 1:2 magnification.

Click to expand...

Is this a fast shooting camera? FPS?

Yes because it is mirror less. 10fps

fmian said:
Why no 31mm f/1.2? Why skimp on the standard focal length aperture?
Why no 90-105mm equiv Macro?

100mm macro is mentioned above.

fmian said:
fmian said:

Also explain your reason in comment.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a low end camera body system with high end APSc lenses.. but still.. the lenses don't excite me when they already have similar (+ more) FF lenses on the market.

Thanks for your opinions

fmian said:
--
Shoot life. Shoot film.
Instagram: primephotographysydney

MediaArchivist · Mar 3, 2016

Deal breakers:

I prefer FF for the work I do
I need a fully articulating screen
I need more than 8Mp
I need a wider lens than your lineup (including a fisheye)

Irrelevant (to me):

Raw format (DNG does not seem like that big of a deal)
Histogram source (what performance compromises are required?)
Video anything (I rarely do video)
Leaf shutter?

PhotoTeach2 · Mar 3, 2016

GodSpeaks said:
Better question: Why would I want to? It offers nothing compelling.

Leaf-Shutter offers:

1.) Fast Flash-Sync speed, (even up to 1/4000sec w/out necessity of power-reduced HSS).

2.) Less Shutter-Lag.

3.) No shutter "distortion".

4.) Quieter.

fmian · Mar 4, 2016

ms18 said:
mahidoes said:

Why not just offer a crop view/capture mode on the 3:2 camera? Is this the only difference between cameras?

Click to expand...

Yes this is the only difference. Because why waste the sensor using crop mode.

This makes no sense?? The sensor width is the same because the lens image circle is the same. You are losing potential sensor surface area making a 16:9 sensor, not by using crop mode in a 3:2 sensor.

mahidoes said:
16:9 might be usefull for movie takers and landscape shooters. 3:2 will be usefull for those who take portrait oriented shots. Some may choose to buy both.

Just make a 1:1 sensor if you don't want to waste space plus offer a variety of output formats.

mahidoes said:
mahidoes said:

What about manual focus performance/handling?

Click to expand...

Will be okay as it contain focus peaking and focus magnification. It is in concept formation stage.

I was talking about the lenses. Will they have a focus and dof scale? Is the focus ring nice and grippy? Will I be able to feel approx where 1m, 3m, 10m, etc focus distances are without looking at the camera?

mahidoes said:
mahidoes said:

but I prefer less moving parts in my lenses.

Click to expand...

Can you explain?

Shutter in lens = more complex high speed precision components = more chance of failure.
Plus.. regarding the inclusion of 400mm lenses.. is this a sports/wildlife system? Is it high frame rate? Are leaf shutters suitable for this kind of use?

mahidoes said:
mahidoes said:

Auto ISO but no shutter or aperture priority? Strange.... ISO is the first thing I lock down, I almost never need it to be Auto unless it's for photos I don't take too seriously.

Click to expand...

This camera mainly in favour of people who want control over photography

So give users aperture and shutter priority control then. You are giving them less control by taking this feature out.

mahidoes said:
and movies. But for urgent situations we have Auto ISO.

mahidoes said:

Is this a video camera or a stills camera? Who is it suited to?

Click to expand...

Both. Photographers who love manual controls and People who shoot movies.

mahidoes said:

So the histogram doesn't match what the screen shows me? What's the point of that? Why not just have a built in RAW viewer instead of JPG?

Click to expand...

Because real RAW preview look like grey tinted jpg. May be that actual RAW preview option can be added via menu setting. But the histogram is from actual RAW preview if the camera set to RAW only.

So show me the grey tinted image then.. if that's what the raw looks like, and that's my starting point on lightroom/photoshop.. show me.

mahidoes said:
mahidoes said:

mahidoes said:

Lens roadmap

At the time of release. (Please mind the 1.6x crop factor there for 22mm is 35mm)

Primes: 22mm f/2.8 pancake lens , 22mm f/1.2, 53mm f/1.2, 100mm f/2 macro

Click to expand...

No standard focal length (equivalent) lens at launch??

Click to expand...

22 mm with 1.6x crop factor yield 35mm which is considered standard FL.

No it's not. You have some research to do.
Standard focal length is derived from the diagonal measurement of the sensor which is then rounded up, and you can go a little longer if you want. Absolute minimum standard lens for APSc would be about 28mm.

mahidoes said:
mahidoes said:

mahidoes said:

Zooms: 15-44mm f/1.8 , 44-125 f/1.8, 10-22 f/2

Click to expand...

They sound massive and expensive...

Click to expand...

Bit expensive than sigma's f/1.8 zooms

mahidoes said:

mahidoes said:

Next year
Primes: 400mm f/4 (Weight 1250g) , 31mm f/1.8, 10mm f/2 with 1:2 magnification.

Click to expand...

Is this a fast shooting camera? FPS?

Click to expand...

Yes because it is mirror less. 10fps

Can the lenses cope with that? Most leaf shutter lenses are for rangefinder or studio cameras with low FPS.

mahidoes said:
mahidoes said:

Why no 31mm f/1.2? Why skimp on the standard focal length aperture?
Why no 90-105mm equiv Macro?

Click to expand...

100mm macro is mentioned above.

100mm macro lens on 1.6 crop = 160mm equivalent...

mahidoes said:
mahidoes said:

mahidoes said:

Also explain your reason in comment.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a low end camera body system with high end APSc lenses.. but still.. the lenses don't excite me when they already have similar (+ more) FF lenses on the market.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinions

Make a mirrorless with a MF 645 sensor and don't worry about high fps or long lenses, and you'll be on the right track.

Mark B. · Mar 4, 2016

ms18 said:
This manufacturer has only 2 camera bodies equipped with APS-C sensor with the crop factor of 1.6x. Every 2 years it will update these bodies. Some time it might take long to update assuming there are no technical break troughs.

A) Body 169

Has 16:9 sensor

B) Body 32

Has typical 3:2 sensor

Common features

1) Auto focusing is similar if not better than A7RII and the EVF is like Fuji XT-1 (Yes these are mirror less cameras with OSPDAF).

2) EVF has all features provided by other manufacturers including focus peaking and magnification.

2) Lens has aperture ring and leaf shutter

3) No PASM. There for aperture and shutter speed should be set. but the ISO can be set to Auto.

Manual exposure settings only? No, this doesn't work for me. I use all the modes for different reasons.

Glen Barrington · Mar 4, 2016

Affect me as a landscape and nature photographer. None of which really affect many photographers of any sort any more.

The truth as I see it, is that the perceived benefits of a leaf shutter was largely overcome by the 1960's to the point where it makes no economic sense for the vast majority of photographers to own and operate leaf shutter systems.

I won't deny there is a small number of photographers who would benefit from such a camera, but it is unreasonable for those few to expect the rest of us to subsidize THEIR photography by buying cameras that offer no benefit to us personally.

--
I look good fat, I'm gonna look good old. . .
http://glenbarrington.blogspot.com/
http://glenbarringtonphotos.blogspot.com/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/130525321@N05/

Andreas Stuebs · Mar 4, 2016

Or even medium format. In a recent interview with Louminous Landscape the CEO of Hasselblad insinuated that he was aware of at least one competitor working on a medium format system. My guess would be Fuji. That system would possibly look very much like the OP except for the sensor size.

Osvaldo Cristo · Mar 4, 2016

OMG! There are currently a lot of different systems, why to add another one?

Thanks, not for me.

I hope you can get what are you looking for.

All the best,

Knoxis · Mar 4, 2016

You mentioned that most things tally up besides the sensor size. However, I read somewhere that the Pentax 645Z has a 1.3 x crop factor despite being medium format (larger than 35mm FF). The crop factor in question refers to the crop its sensor has over a traditional 645 piece of film, or the new "true" 645 sensor of the PhaseOne XF 100MP. So despite being larger than 35mm FF, it still has a "crop factor" compared to a "true 645 medium format sensor". Therefore, I think it would be safe to assume that if anyone, such as the aforementioned Fuji, were to make a medium format camera, it could have the aforementioned 1.6x crop factor, which would make it only slightly bigger than 35mm FF.

Would you switch to this system (POLL)

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