Leonard Migliore
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Try that when the camera's set for back button focus.
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Nikon DLs and buying compacts vs Lenses
- Thread starter cast iron head
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ttran88
Senior Member
It's hard to swallow but lenses are not forever. With sensor tech changing so quickly lenses now days are getting outdated quicker than our grandfather days. Not just sensors but AF motors and coatings as well. Especially with Mirrorless maturity lots and lots of lenses from C&N will need to be updated. Video shooting capable cameras requires modern AF motors. I would rather buy these fix lenses than get held hostage with any one particular lens mount.
Wellington100
Forum Pro
The wide DL coupled with a Nikon 1 with a 70-300 would cover all the bases and some.
But I don't want those lenses. I do take your point that the Nikon 9-25 makes a compelling case for itself compared with buying just a lens for more money. I'll give you that.
The answer is to buy whatever meets your needs and budget. Be happy.
cast iron head
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I agree. I was 'trying' to present the other side. I have had lenses break at the most inopportune moments, just like that, with no warning. They do get outdated wrt AF speeds. The older lenses definitely come up short wrt edge to edge sharpness. And the wear and tear and re calibration or fine tuning costs add up over time.
Basically with all the changes in the cameras system landscape I am trying to figure out what would work best for me in the future before I jump in and purchase anything.
I am most sensitive and excited about low weight and form factors. That is why I find these DLs very interesting. If they are successful, the next generations would be cheaper and better. Other companies would also jump in the fray.
TacticDesigns
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For when you need / want it . . .
I have a dSLR and some f2.8 lenses. When I need to get the shot and size / weight is not the paramount concern, I will take a dSLR.
But for vacation or get-togethers with friends and family I don't always want to drag out a dSLR or any ILC for that matter. I might just take my Canon S90.
Especially on trips to an amusement park where I can't take a dSLR on the rides (not allowed or it will get tossed around too much). For those times I want a smaller (but still capable) camera.
That is why I'm looking at the Nikon DL24-85.
The other times I'll use my Canon S90 is when I have my Nikon 80-200mm f2.8 on my dSLR but still want to be ready for wide shots. It's quicker to pull out my Canon S90 to get those wide shots than switching lenses. That is another benefit of having a small kinda wide lens camera. And better if it has a bigger sensor and more controls than a conventional point-and-shoot camera.
Yes. Lenses will take your further.
But not if you don't take them with you. Or you have to wrong lens on the camera.
Take care & Happy Shooting!
A few years back I would have been more hestiant to buy an expensive digital camera where I couldn't change lenses. Less so today because they have gotten so good. That said there is a threshold of how much I would pay fora camera with the lens permanently attached. For me it's around $500 now. So for me personally most of the top fixed lens cameras are a bit too expensive, but if you look around there are some good bargains to be found such as the older RX100s. The dollar amount is totally personal so for others there will be different limits.
I can see a point in the near future where I own 2 cameras. A pocketable one with 1" sensor and short zoom range and a longer zoom range fixed lens with similar sensor size. For most people something like these are more than adequate. Just waiting for the economics of it to make a bit more sense.
Smaug01
Veteran Member
This is exactly what I did.
Factory refurbed Lumix FZ1000 = $550
New Canon G9X = $430
Sold my DSLR.
Covers all bases except ultra wide and ultra tele.
Sometimes people buy an interchangeable lens camera for features other than lens interchangeability. I bought a Samsung GX-1S DSLR with kit lens in 2007, and, once fitted, the kit lens has never been off the camera. I bought and kept the camera because its viewfinder was brighter, clearer, and easier to both focus and compose with than what I saw in competing models. I also liked the placement and flexibility of its controls and the general size/weight/shape of the body--it fits my hands well and is comfortable to use. Its picture quality gives me nothing to complain about. The major limiting factor is the noise, and I have purchased other cameras that would be quieter, more discreet, so as to avoid disturbing others in places like museums, but they aren't a replacement for the majority of the pictures I take and the features I get in the DSLR, even if I only use the kit lens it came with.
This. I shoot m4/3, and would love to get something wider than the 12mm (24mm eFL) that I currently have, but I'm running into problems here:
- Cheapest option is the Oly 9-18mm, but it's slow (f/4-5.6), plastic, and still $400+ on the used market
- Next option is the Panny 7-14 f/4, which doesn't really work on Oly bodies (purple flare issue), which means picking up a used Panny body like a GX7 to go with it, which ends up running close to $1k total
- The m4/3 wideangle piece de resistance Oly 7-14 f/2.8, which is massively large, heavy, and expensive.
Or I could consider a DL 18-50, which has a 9-25mm f/2.5-4 lens in m4/3 terms. It's as wide as the Oly 9-18mm, brighter than all but the Oly 7-14, and smaller/cheaper than all but a used Oly 9-18. As a bonus, the 24-50mm range is quite useful as a social camera, which provides more flexibility than my E-PM2 with a small 14 or 17mm lens attached.
Add to that a sensor that's a bit less than a stop behind m4/3 in terms of DR and ISO noise, and you have a definite contender.
I'd consider it next time I have some money burning a hole in my pocket, and will definitely be paying attention if these get discounted before a gen II comes out.
NowHearThis
Veteran Member
Stage: ?
Price: This is an individual value factor. Some might like the wide angle zoom on the DL18-50. Others might like different features. If another doesn't have those features you are looking for in a size/weight/price point you feel comfortable with then a DL might be for you. I personally like all 3 DLs and while they do have some features I like that my EM10 does not have, I won't be buying any of them for my own reasons.
Functionality: This will vary depending on ones own needs. I like the the FPS, but have no need for macro. I like the slow-mo video, but prefer EVFs to be built in not add-omd, etc...
Capability: There's a lot of things these cameras seem to do well (at least on paper). There will other cameras that can do other things better (and worse). There is no way to answer this question for everybody, we all have wants/needs different from each other - the best thing I can suggest is to make a list of what you wan and what you need and see if one or more of the DLs fits.
Weight: This one is easy. If a different camera has a bigger sensor then the lenses will be bigger and in most cases heavier, (in some cases the difference won't be much, in others it could be extreme. And the reverse is true for a camera with a smaller sensor.
To your question "would it be better to get these than similar focal length and brightness lenses":
The correct answer is: It Depends.
For me the answer is no, but the Panasonic TZ100 is a strong maybe. It could give me the reach of a second lens but in a very small package with a respectable 1" sensor. It could then open up options for me with my EM10 to get different lenses than I was currently saving up for. Plus it'll offer "good enough" video, so I don't have to add another camera to my gear list. This choice might work for me but might not for others and that's fine, we all need to decide what's right for ourselves.
007peter
Forum Pro
DPR Canon G5X Review Video
Similar to NIkon DL series, Canon G5X is yet another excellent 1" Fixed Camera.
Take a look @DPR's video review, and asked yourself - aside from shooting sports - why bother even buying a DSLR. I think the 1" fixed camera has matured.
Similar to NIkon DL series, Canon G5X is yet another excellent 1" Fixed Camera.
Take a look @DPR's video review, and asked yourself - aside from shooting sports - why bother even buying a DSLR. I think the 1" fixed camera has matured.
cast iron head
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Early adoption vs late adoption? When street prices are lower? 1st Gen or next gen?
Sometimes certain categories of cameras are outright rejected/dismissed by certain photographers especially when they are newly launched. So people start to weigh in the things you have detailed in your post only after they buy in with their premise. When they see themselves as the target audience for the product. When it looks compelling enough.
So this was my way of asking if the DLs are compelling enough yet.
NowHearThis
Veteran Member
This isn't limited to categories. If I had a nickel for every time someone one these forums said I'm not buying [brand/camera model] because the colors/dr/noise/etc are inferior to my favorite brand.... I'd be so rich.
The short answer to your question is yes. But just because something is compelling doesn't mean one needs to rush out to buy it. Also there maybe more compelling cameras out there.
MoreorLess
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Personally I tend to take the view that whilst yes you can get a bit smaller with mirrorless or indeed a smaller format your still dealing with a system if you want a decent amount of versatility with multiple lenses and maybe a tripod as well. Something that's beyond one jactket pocket and needs fiddling with the same way a FF DSLR does.
The 18-50 DL is definitely tempting for me as a travel camera when I don't want large prints because it looks like it really could be an entire setup you can keep in your pocket. The range for starters is great for landscape plus is long enough for decent street shooting as well and the aperture(that you can still get good DOF from)plus VR means a tripod is going to be messed a lot less.
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