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flat colors in Dimage 7Hi

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Alexei Degterev

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I have been plaing with Canon S400 yesterday, comparing it to my Dimage 7Hi. I was taking some indoor shots with a fill flash in a well lit room. I am not a very good photographer, so probably I am making some mistake, but the colors in the images made by 7Hi look a lot less saturated than S400 and also a lot less realisitic as well. Some settings I was using for 7Hi:

ISO100, contrast -1, color saturation +1, exposure comp. -0.3, AWB (seemed to work best under the conditions), fill flash, P mode. For S400 I used ISO50, fill flash and AWB as well.
Thanks.
 
Make sure you are using the color space correctly. If you have it set to sRGB you can get away without embedding the profile, but if you choose AdobeRGB you MUST embed the profile or you'll get werid colors when you try to view/print/process the photos
 
Alexei Degterev said:
I have been plaing with Canon S400 yesterday, comparing it to my
Dimage 7Hi. I was taking some indoor shots with a fill flash in a
well lit room. I am not a very good photographer, so probably I am
making some mistake, but the colors in the images made by 7Hi look
a lot less saturated than S400 and also a lot less realisitic as
well. Some settings I was using for 7Hi:
ISO100, contrast -1, color saturation +1, exposure comp. -0.3, AWB
(seemed to work best under the conditions), fill flash, P mode. For
S400 I used ISO50, fill flash and AWB as well.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
--
JC

Based on a recommendation in this forum, I am using Contrast -2 and Color Saturation +2. I am much happier with the output vs "normal" settings.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I forgot to mention that I am using embedded AdobeRGB.
Blindman said:
Alexei Degterev said:
I have been plaing with Canon S400 yesterday, comparing it to my
Dimage 7Hi. I was taking some indoor shots with a fill flash in a
well lit room. I am not a very good photographer, so probably I am
making some mistake, but the colors in the images made by 7Hi look
a lot less saturated than S400 and also a lot less realisitic as
well. Some settings I was using for 7Hi:
ISO100, contrast -1, color saturation +1, exposure comp. -0.3, AWB
(seemed to work best under the conditions), fill flash, P mode. For
S400 I used ISO50, fill flash and AWB as well.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
--
JC

Based on a recommendation in this forum, I am using Contrast -2 and
Color Saturation +2. I am much happier with the output vs "normal"
settings.
Click to expand...
 
Don't forget digital film is cheap. Try a few experiments with different settings.

In a well lit room you may not need the flash on full power. Too much light can have a bleaching effect. I get much more realistic pictures using room light only provided that is at a reasonable level. Only fast action causes a problem. Use a tripod if you have one. The strength of the flash can be reduced in setup.

I personally do not subscribe to the wholesale use of reduced contrast whcih is advocated as a means of minimising noise. I only reduce contrast together with selective spot exposure in brightly lit high contrast lighting such as full sun when highlights tend to burn out easily. In fact in low light ,low contrast scenes you should increase contrast as stated in the manual.

Try it for yourself. Use the power of post processing to add some punch to your pictures. Increase saturation & adjust in levels by bringing in the high & low adjusters.

There is a good free program by Vtie on this website. You will be able to over saturate & oversharpen to well beyond your needs.

PS search for the website when the search engine is available. Tupe PHOTOCONTROL & searchall forums.
--
keith c
 
Thanks again for the suggestions. Is there any reason to think that 7Hi intrinsically produces somewhat unsaturated colors and has to be specifically tweaked to increase color saturation or it must be something in my settings/approach? Also, what do you guys use as a colorspace if you prefer to print the pictures?
keith caldwell said:
Don't forget digital film is cheap. Try a few experiments with
different settings.

In a well lit room you may not need the flash on full power. Too
much light can have a bleaching effect. I get much more realistic
pictures using room light only provided that is at a reasonable
level. Only fast action causes a problem. Use a tripod if you have
one. The strength of the flash can be reduced in setup.

I personally do not subscribe to the wholesale use of reduced
contrast whcih is advocated as a means of minimising noise. I only
reduce contrast together with selective spot exposure in brightly
lit high contrast lighting such as full sun when highlights tend to
burn out easily. In fact in low light ,low contrast scenes you
should increase contrast as stated in the manual.

Try it for yourself. Use the power of post processing to add some
punch to your pictures. Increase saturation & adjust in levels by
bringing in the high & low adjusters.

There is a good free program by Vtie on this website. You will be
able to over saturate & oversharpen to well beyond your needs.

PS search for the website when the search engine is available. Tupe
PHOTOCONTROL & searchall forums.
--
keith c
Click to expand...
 
I find that digital compared to film, for instance, tends to provide more subdued prints. Bear in mind that this would be for prints that go to a film processor, so adjustments are likely.

My D7(u) has ad times given less saturated prints that I haven't always been successful in computer -post processing in getting desired resullts. I agree with others that multiple shots, usually bracketed, would go a long way at achieving more pleasing results.

Gene
 
I agree with Keith and pretty much follow the same procedure except I use an editor called PhotoBrush. It is very easy to use and I can pretty much adjust my photos they way I want. It's not that the color information is missing, it just has to be brought out. I usually bring up the midtones the most.



--
http://www.showtelinc.com/aphoto2.htm
Jim Gregerson
 
I don't know what settings you use in your S400, but I have the previous model S230, and always use neutral setting for the saturation. This is because it has a tendancy to oversaturate, the red channel in particular. The same might be true for the S400 as well.

The neutral mode may be closer to the way the D7Hi (which I also have) is and I would much prefer a little less saturation from camera, compared to the risk of oversaturation.

An oversaturated pic may have blownout details in the colours beyond repair. An undersaturated pic can be boosted in post-processing.

My 2cents

Regards

HAL
Alexei Degterev said:
I have been plaing with Canon S400 yesterday, comparing it to my
Dimage 7Hi. I was taking some indoor shots with a fill flash in a
well lit room. I am not a very good photographer, so probably I am
making some mistake, but the colors in the images made by 7Hi look
a lot less saturated than S400 and also a lot less realisitic as
well. Some settings I was using for 7Hi:
ISO100, contrast -1, color saturation +1, exposure comp. -0.3, AWB
(seemed to work best under the conditions), fill flash, P mode. For
S400 I used ISO50, fill flash and AWB as well.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. So I'll try avoiding the flash, maybe increase saturation level and do postprocessing. Photocontrol seemas a pretty nice, straight forward program.

To HAL: I did use normal saturation. Actually looking at the object and the image on the screen, it seemed that S400 had pretty close colors to the original, even though according to many people in this forum it has a pretty bad problem with skin tones indoor.
MRHAL said:
My 2cents

Regards

HAL
Alexei Degterev said:
I have been plaing with Canon S400 yesterday, comparing it to my
Dimage 7Hi. I was taking some indoor shots with a fill flash in a
well lit room. I am not a very good photographer, so probably I am
making some mistake, but the colors in the images made by 7Hi look
a lot less saturated than S400 and also a lot less realisitic as
well. Some settings I was using for 7Hi:
ISO100, contrast -1, color saturation +1, exposure comp. -0.3, AWB
(seemed to work best under the conditions), fill flash, P mode. For
S400 I used ISO50, fill flash and AWB as well.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thank you. That's a very useful advice.
Tortellino said:
Alexei Degterev said:
Also, what do you guys use as
a colorspace if you prefer to print the pictures?
Click to expand...
If you print your photos in a photo lab then use sRGB, because this
is what they use. If you print at home then AdobeRGB has more
colors, but you can hardly take advantage of it if you don't
calibrate your monitor and printer.

T.
Click to expand...
 
wow that's nice. What exactly did you do to that photo?
Jim Gregerson said:
I agree with Keith and pretty much follow the same procedure except
I use an editor called PhotoBrush. It is very easy to use and I can
pretty much adjust my photos they way I want. It's not that the
color information is missing, it just has to be brought out. I
usually bring up the midtones the most.



--
http://www.showtelinc.com/aphoto2.htm
Jim Gregerson
Click to expand...
--
Daniella
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
MRHAL said:
The neutral mode may be closer to the way the D7Hi (which I also
have) is and I would much prefer a little less saturation from
camera, compared to the risk of oversaturation.
An oversaturated pic may have blownout details in the colours
beyond repair. An undersaturated pic can be boosted in
post-processing.
Click to expand...
I find it very hard to fix an understarated sky thouhg..they always come out rather blotchy if they are not saturated enough to begin with.
MRHAL said:
My 2cents

Regards

HAL
Alexei Degterev said:
I have been plaing with Canon S400 yesterday, comparing it to my
Dimage 7Hi. I was taking some indoor shots with a fill flash in a
well lit room. I am not a very good photographer, so probably I am
making some mistake, but the colors in the images made by 7Hi look
a lot less saturated than S400 and also a lot less realisitic as
well. Some settings I was using for 7Hi:
ISO100, contrast -1, color saturation +1, exposure comp. -0.3, AWB
(seemed to work best under the conditions), fill flash, P mode. For
S400 I used ISO50, fill flash and AWB as well.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Daniella
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND, Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
 
I kept waiting for someone to suggest this but no one did so I will. I have a D7i. And to some extent, experienced the same thing you are in the beginning. A few months ago, I started experimenting with other settings that might improve things. Change you White Balance to Incadescent lighting. It should improve your saturation greatly. But if you really want to improve it, do a custom white balance. Its really not that tough and will make your colors come out much truer than Auto WB.
 
Does your viewing/printing software recognize the embedded color space profile, and does it accomodate for the profile when displaying the image?

I work in Photoshop 7 and set my working space to Adobe RGB. I also shoot in Adobe color space. If I view my images in software (e.g. Internet Explorer) that does not recognize the color space profile, they look terrible. If I convert the images to sRGB color space in PS, and then view the on the internet they look the way they are supposed to. If I look at the two images (adobe RGB & sRGB) in PS they look virtually the same. This is because PS recognizes the profile and adjusts the display of each image accordingly.

--David

Minolta 7hi
 
Daniella said:
wow that's nice. What exactly did you do to that photo?

--
Daniella
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com
c7OOuz, Dimage-7, Tcon14tele, C210tele, Cokin-173, Grad-ND,
Hoya-red-Intensifier, Hoya_R_72.
Click to expand...
Daniella,

First of all, I use PhotoBrush, not PS and since most pics from the D7i are on the pale side - I usually increase the midtones (darken) and if that's not enough I increase the Gamma(darken). This tendsto bring out all the color and give the pics a more colorful look without oversaturating.
PhotoBrush also recongnizes Minolta Colorspace and converts it if desired.

http://www.showtelinc.com/aphoto2.htm
Jim Gregerson
 
Thank you everyone for the suggestions. Now I have quite afew things to try to get better results.
David Bourke said:
Does your viewing/printing software recognize the embedded color
space profile, and does it accomodate for the profile when
displaying the image?

I work in Photoshop 7 and set my working space to Adobe RGB. I
also shoot in Adobe color space. If I view my images in software
(e.g. Internet Explorer) that does not recognize the color space
profile, they look terrible. If I convert the images to sRGB color
space in PS, and then view the on the internet they look the way
they are supposed to. If I look at the two images (adobe RGB &
sRGB) in PS they look virtually the same. This is because PS
recognizes the profile and adjusts the display of each image
accordingly.

--David

Minolta 7hi
Click to expand...
 
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