SONY RX1 VS SONY A7R + Sony 28mm F/2

SonyRX1 · Oct 5, 2015

Mike Fewster said:
No, I wouldn't argue with that. However it simply isn't what you initially said. We have no idea what the experience of the OP might be. I agree (and have stated elsewhere) that the RX1 is a camera for an experienced phototgrapher. My point was and remains, that the camera is entirably useable if you understand it and shoot accordingly. If the photographer wants to use it as a point and shoot that will nail focus every time without too much thought on their part, it isn't the appropriate bit of gear. In saying that I am not making snide comments about the skills of others, we all have different requirements when we shoot.

--
Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia

I think this is where we disagree.

Your argument: Experience of photographer can make up for "most" of the sluggishness of the RX1.

My argument: Experience of photographer can make up for "some" of the sluggishness of the RX1.

How would you prefocus in these scenarios?

Street Scenario #1: At night, an interesting looking motorbike is at a stoplight 5 meters away. Subject requires f2 at 1/60 to shoot at under iso 800. Only 2 seconds to compose, focus, and take the shot.

Street Scenario #2: Right after the motorbike shot, you find a beautiful girl walking towards you 3.5 meters away, but will be 1.5 meters by the time you are ready to compose and take the shot.

See, those are impossible shots with the RX1, because no human can react that quickly and accurately focus at f2. Maybe with a rangefinder, but no chance with the RX1. Unless zone-focusing means foreseeing a scene before it even happens! With the A7x series or Leica Q, those shots are captured. This is where our definition of "usable" differs, I think.

And I must add that subjects in focus (via zone-focusing) and subjects in critical focus are two different beasts.

SonyRX1 · Oct 5, 2015

Oh and fyi, I live in Tokyo, and I know where you took those shots. The first shot is in the main street of Shibuya and the other one is in a Pachinko parlor. Both are very well-lit scenes (almost daylight)

Mike Fewster · Oct 5, 2015

SonyRX1 said:
Mike Fewster said:

No, I wouldn't argue with that. However it simply isn't what you initially said. We have no idea what the experience of the OP might be. I agree (and have stated elsewhere) that the RX1 is a camera for an experienced phototgrapher. My point was and remains, that the camera is entirably useable if you understand it and shoot accordingly. If the photographer wants to use it as a point and shoot that will nail focus every time without too much thought on their part, it isn't the appropriate bit of gear. In saying that I am not making snide comments about the skills of others, we all have different requirements when we shoot.

Click to expand...

SonyRX1 · Oct 5, 2015

Mike, I haven't dismissed the RX1 either. That's why it's still sitting in my dry cabinet!

Perhaps you think I do not appreciate this camera, but that is not true at all, because I feel it's an absolute gem! In fact, at one point I sold all my Canon gear and used the RX1 exclusively as my only camera (aside from my smartphone) I feel the lens is the best 35mm ever made --- the bokeh, color, and rendering is magical. And somehow the sensor seems to have better DR and noise characteristics than the A7 series. It almost feels like cheating in PP because you can easily get clean HDR-like images from a single file! I also love the silent shutter, build quality, tiltable EVF (in use, hate removing/attaching it), and finally and most importantly, it's size and weight. The RX1 is truly a technological marvel.

BUT, autofocus/manual focus and overall operation is slow. That is like 10 positives to 1 negative, but the negative is substantial enough to make it a Jekyll and Hyde camera for me. It's like the old air-cooled Porsche's with the crappy trannies --- the motors and superlight chassis were fantastic but shifting was slow and heavy. Still drivable but made the experience much less enjoyable. Feel the same way about my RX1R.

I just feel new buyers need to be informed of this weakness. Any potential buyer knows the positives of this camera, but very few buyers know why many owners end up selling it.

Robgo2 · Oct 5, 2015

For the record, the true focal length of the RX1 lens is about 32mm, not 35mm. This means that it is not so far from 28mm.

To the OP, if I were making the decision, I would choose between an A7II and an RX1. They share the same 24MP sensor, and the increased resolution of 36MP on the A7R is less than you might think. The A7II beats the A7R in several important ways--IBIS, better AF, quieter shutter--to name a few.

I happen to own both of my recommended cameras and find that they serve different purposes. The RX1 has a wonderful lens/sensor combination and is amazingly compact, but it also has significant limitations that you could learn to live with. The A7II is larger but far more versatile and easier to focus, and with top quality lenses, the IQ is pretty darn close.

Rob

philip pj · Oct 5, 2015

'I just feel new buyers need to be informed of this weakness.'

Mission accomplished, sir, a job well done.

SonyRX1 · Oct 5, 2015

philip pj said:
'I just feel new buyers need to be informed of this weakness.'

Mission accomplished, sir, a job well done.

Thanks

Mike Fewster · Oct 6, 2015

SonyRX1 said:
Oh and fyi, I live in Tokyo, and I know where you took those shots. The first shot is in the main street of Shibuya and the other one is in a Pachinko parlor. Both are very well-lit scenes (almost daylight)

I know you live in Tokyo, you have mentioned it previously. It was one reason I used these shots.

The Pachinko shot was quite dim and the other considerably brighter

Pachinko shot. 1/80 5.6 250 iso

Forever Young 1/100 7.1 iso 400 The point is, both are reasonable

/averageish sreet shooting conditions. They were possible because of the RX1s ability to raise shadow detail.

Here's another. HK this time. I was fascinated by the almost 100% fixation on phones in the carriage. It was crowded. This was shot in crowded/bumping conditions with the RX1 very quickly raised above my head/ fired and quickly lowered as I didn't want to be too obvious about what I was doing. I could do no preplanning for this shot, the AF was completely on its own with no time to hunt around.

Again, I am not silly enough to argue that the RX1 is a fast camera. It isn't. But. I simply think you have regularly in the forum overstated the problem. With some experience and thought, the camera is highly usable, even for street shooting if that's your bag.

--
Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia

Mike Fewster · Oct 6, 2015

SonyRX1 said:
Mike, I haven't dismissed the RX1 either. That's why it's still sitting in my dry cabinet!

Perhaps you think I do not appreciate this camera, but that is not true at all, because I feel it's an absolute gem! In fact, at one point I sold all my Canon gear and used the RX1 exclusively as my only camera (aside from my smartphone) I feel the lens is the best 35mm ever made --- the bokeh, color, and rendering is magical. And somehow the sensor seems to have better DR and noise characteristics than the A7 series. It almost feels like cheating in PP because you can easily get clean HDR-like images from a single file! I also love the silent shutter, build quality, tiltable EVF (in use, hate removing/attaching it), and finally and most importantly, it's size and weight. The RX1 is truly a technological marvel.

BUT, autofocus/manual focus and overall operation is slow. That is like 10 positives to 1 negative, but the negative is substantial enough to make it a Jekyll and Hyde camera for me. It's like the old air-cooled Porsche's with the crappy trannies --- the motors and superlight chassis were fantastic but shifting was slow and heavy. Still drivable but made the experience much less enjoyable. Feel the same way about my RX1R.

I just feel new buyers need to be informed of this weakness. Any potential buyer knows the positives of this camera, but very few buyers know why many owners end up selling it.

Hello Sony RX1

I realize you still have an RX1 and like many of its positives. I have other cameras as well as the RX1 because much as I like it, it aint perfect. And if a newer model came out with the AF of the A7r11 and a tilt screen and a pop up evf like the RX100 models, I'd grab it, depending on price and the weight/size penalties that might be incurred.

Gotta say, I haven't seen too many RX1s coming on sale for that reason. Reading the forums, most users seem to do what you and I have done and keep them plus something else in our collection. My point was and remains that I think you overstate the issue. Unless the photographer has quite specific needs for a fast shooting, with some thought, I think the focussing of the RX1 is quite useable for most situations.

Robgo2 · Oct 6, 2015

Mike Fewster said:
SonyRX1 said:

Mike, I haven't dismissed the RX1 either. That's why it's still sitting in my dry cabinet!

Perhaps you think I do not appreciate this camera, but that is not true at all, because I feel it's an absolute gem! In fact, at one point I sold all my Canon gear and used the RX1 exclusively as my only camera (aside from my smartphone) I feel the lens is the best 35mm ever made --- the bokeh, color, and rendering is magical. And somehow the sensor seems to have better DR and noise characteristics than the A7 series. It almost feels like cheating in PP because you can easily get clean HDR-like images from a single file! I also love the silent shutter, build quality, tiltable EVF (in use, hate removing/attaching it), and finally and most importantly, it's size and weight. The RX1 is truly a technological marvel.

BUT, autofocus/manual focus and overall operation is slow. That is like 10 positives to 1 negative, but the negative is substantial enough to make it a Jekyll and Hyde camera for me. It's like the old air-cooled Porsche's with the crappy trannies --- the motors and superlight chassis were fantastic but shifting was slow and heavy. Still drivable but made the experience much less enjoyable. Feel the same way about my RX1R.

I just feel new buyers need to be informed of this weakness. Any potential buyer knows the positives of this camera, but very few buyers know why many owners end up selling it.

Click to expand...

Hello Sony RX1

I realize you still have an RX1 and like many of its positives. I have other cameras as well as the RX1 because much as I like it, it aint perfect. And if a newer model came out with the AF of the A7r11 and a tilt screen and a pop up evf like the RX100 models, I'd grab it, depending on price and the weight/size penalties that might be incurred.

Gotta say, I haven't seen too many RX1s coming on sale for that reason. Reading the forums, most users seem to do what you and I have done and keep them plus something else in our collection. My point was and remains that I think you overstate the issue. Unless the photographer has quite specific needs for a fast shooting, with some thought, I think the focussing of the RX1 is quite useable for most situations.

SonyRX1 · Oct 6, 2015

Hi Mike,

Thanks for posting the settings for those two shots. Yes those type of shots are entirely possible when you have the luxury of prefocusing at f5.6-f8. And I have to say that my shooting style may be very different from your's, as I like to get very close to the action (think kai from digitalrevtv) It requires a fast camera to capture the natural expression of people, before they realize they are being photographed. It only takes like 0.2 seconds of pointing your camera at that person before they start acting uneasy. Touchscreens and tilting screens also are helpful to shooting stealth but unfortunately the RX1 has neither.

I will be keeping this camera mostly for landscape, architectural, and environmental photography. Maybe some family photos too. For street, events, and shooting my kids, the Leica Q will be the preferred choice. I'll probably be replacing my A7S soon with a A7II or A7RII, as I've realized that IBIS is a killer feature.

Anyways, thanks for staying civil and constructive. Happy shooting! :-D

Sean_Jayhawk · Oct 7, 2015

SonyRX1 said:
Mike, I haven't dismissed the RX1 either. That's why it's still sitting in my dry cabinet!

Perhaps you think I do not appreciate this camera, but that is not true at all, because I feel it's an absolute gem! In fact, at one point I sold all my Canon gear and used the RX1 exclusively as my only camera (aside from my smartphone) I feel the lens is the best 35mm ever made --- the bokeh, color, and rendering is magical. And somehow the sensor seems to have better DR and noise characteristics than the A7 series. It almost feels like cheating in PP because you can easily get clean HDR-like images from a single file! I also love the silent shutter, build quality, tiltable EVF (in use, hate removing/attaching it), and finally and most importantly, it's size and weight. The RX1 is truly a technological marvel.

BUT, autofocus/manual focus and overall operation is slow. That is like 10 positives to 1 negative, but the negative is substantial enough to make it a Jekyll and Hyde camera for me.

This was almost exactly my experience. I really, really wanted to keep the RX1 because the shots I did get were crazy impressive (not referring to my composition; just the IQ of the camera), but unlike you two, I just decided the AF issue was too limited for the way I like to shoot in available light. I've changed a bit in how I shoot since I owned the RX1 in late 2012 and early 2013, so I still think about grabbing one. But the high price of used and potentially buying one that was purchased in 2012 and used a ton while looking pretty on the outside leaves me too uneasy.

Joburger · Oct 10, 2015

This guy has done some good work with the RX-1 Fashion Photography With the Sony RX1. It’s One Little Beast of a Camera

Then again there's the Ricoh GR, same philosophy, excellent image quality.

siderean · Oct 10, 2015

I was thinking very seriously about an RX1 but wound up getting an A7S and 35/2.8. The 35mm is a very nice lens, even though it's one stop slower. I think the RX1's 35 is better, but the size is pretty similar and that was more my concern. The A7S, of course, will take other lenses and I love the AF and low light capabilities.

I used the A7S with the 55mm to take dance shots at a wedding I was shooting last week - it was brilliant!!

SonyRocks · Feb 5, 2016

Still contemplating this situation. Would love to hear more. Only interested in the A7r vs rx1 though

straylightrun · Feb 5, 2016

SonyRocks said:
Still contemplating this situation. Would love to hear more. Only interested in the A7r vs rx1 though

I wouldn't bother with the RX1 unless size is a big priority or you can get it for really cheap. The AF quirks aren't worth it. It reminds me of the original Fujifilm x100 that had AF issues, and Fujifilm ended up making 2 more models after that to fix the issue. If you get the RX1, you're stuck with an aging camera that doesn't perform all that well in regards to AF to begin with.

Robgo2 · Feb 6, 2016

siderean said:
I was thinking very seriously about an RX1 but wound up getting an A7S and 35/2.8. The 35mm is a very nice lens, even though it's one stop slower. I think the RX1's 35 is better, but the size is pretty similar and that was more my concern. The A7S, of course, will take other lenses and I love the AF and low light capabilities.

//Don in Toronto
http://kittle.ca
http://kittle.ca/blog

Do you call the cameras pictured below similar in size? I have an RX1 and an A7II, and I find the size difference between them to be quite significant.

Rob

db941586702b4aee8bf4d646c7ee3fe1.jpg.png

b216450e06d446ea8f6aea0336b00c27.jpg.png

JimKasson · Feb 6, 2016

Robgo2 said:
siderean said:

I was thinking very seriously about an RX1 but wound up getting an A7S and 35/2.8. The 35mm is a very nice lens, even though it's one stop slower. I think the RX1's 35 is better, but the size is pretty similar and that was more my concern. The A7S, of course, will take other lenses and I love the AF and low light capabilities.

//Don in Toronto
http://kittle.ca
http://kittle.ca/blog

Click to expand...

Do you call the cameras pictured below similar in size? I have an RX1 and an A7II, and I find the size difference between them to be quite significant.

Rob

When you put the EVF on the RX-1 it makes it quite a bit taller. When you add a grip to the RX-1 the body gets somewhat thicker.

--

the last word the last word - Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.

Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.

blog.kasson.com

Robgo2 · Feb 6, 2016

JimKasson said:
Robgo2 said:

siderean said:

I was thinking very seriously about an RX1 but wound up getting an A7S and 35/2.8. The 35mm is a very nice lens, even though it's one stop slower. I think the RX1's 35 is better, but the size is pretty similar and that was more my concern. The A7S, of course, will take other lenses and I love the AF and low light capabilities.

//Don in Toronto
http://kittle.ca
http://kittle.ca/blog

Click to expand...

Do you call the cameras pictured below similar in size? I have an RX1 and an A7II, and I find the size difference between them to be quite significant.

Rob

Click to expand...

When you put the EVF on the RX-1 it makes it quite a bit taller. When you add a grip to the RX-1 the body gets somewhat thicker.

Even with the grip (which I don't use) and the EVF (which I do,) the RX1 is still a much smaller, lighter package than any A7 series camera + 35mm lens.

Rob

Rob Sims · Dec 19, 2017

Reserecting an old thread, because I’m having a similar dilema currently.

Bought an A7R2 to replace my A7. Also have an RX1 I carry as a second camera. Wondering whether to buy the FE28 2.0 or FE35 2.8 and selling the RX1 which I find has often intolerable AF (and manual focus by wire... ugh) in low light. But worried that image quality will fall AND i’ll have increased bulk.

What did the OP decide in the end?

SONY RX1 VS SONY A7R + Sony 28mm F/2

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