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Word is spreading. Canon 10D AF soiling reputation.

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... insult and then retract or add a "LOL" or a ";)" and everything's hunky-dory. I believe you choose your words carefully. ;-) LOL

Just let ME call someone an "idiot" or "ignorant" and I'll be set upon by your "defenders" in a heartbeat. But I have more respect for others to do that. I haven't even called you an idiot and, according to your defenders, we're mortal enemies. And this is even after you inferred that my wife was an idiot. of course, you "apologized" afterwards.
 
Its fairly straight forward for a manufacturer to recall a product if it has problems ... and its also good PR for them to do so. It requires a public recognition on their behalf that there is a problem. They are not doing so ... I am aware that this may cost them some sales but not as many as it would if they do not correct the issue publicly and be seen doing so. Whilst there is a fair amount of noise about this issue and folks have gotten lazy regarding focus ... the fact is if autofocus is a selling feature it should work and Canon have proven that they are capable of having a great facility for this. The problem is that they are being driven by a need to be first to market and shorter development cycles. This is a common problem for all companies these days. I just feel they are all cutting too many corners. I have spent about 20 years in the digital imaging industry working first hand with manufacturers of a lot of these technlogies and I am very dismayed at the lack of attention to long view in a lot of companies due to the pressures of quarterly profits and bottom line philosophy.

I like Canon equipment and will continue to use it for as long as it makes sense ... that sense also requires some emphasis on my side to justify spending my money wisely ... I can't justify spending my hard earned money on something that may cost me in lost time and lack of use through it being in the Shop. Not to say that all 10D's will be, but on the off chance that I happen to purchase one of the dodgy ones I'd like to be assured that it will be fixed in a timely fashion and that I get a replacement for when it doesn't. Every Day the camera is in the shop is a day when I dont have it available for shooting. Now this is all academic as I don't have a 10D ... I want a camera like the 10D because it has facilities/feature my D60 doesn't. Heres to hoping that the next camera they bring out has more ... so I can justify buying it. Next spring I will be in the market for another body so I will either Buy a 10D (or eos 3D if they bring one out) or a 1DS if I can afford it.

--
Mario Georgiou
Designer and Digital Artist
 
DavidP said:
And I stick by that. Those who let internet forums unduly
influence their decisions are ignorant/unaware of the nature of
internet forums. At least that's the only logical explanation I
can come up with.
DavidP said:
I do believe I said unduly swayed, or something to that effect.
This IS the internet, after all.

Pearl Rider wrote:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I definitely don't worry about somebody on a forum calling me an idiot, or some variation. But I do worry when every Canon forum on the Internet is going on about the out of focus problem. As consumers, it is increasingly difficult to get good information about products. Car salesmen want you to buy because one has more cup holders, etc. I don't have any photographer friends in town to debate with, so I look to the Internet. Unfortunately, the vocal minority can dominate..... so I am trying to sort through that now.
DavidP #28649 said:
DavidP #28649 said:
DavidP #28649 said:
Exactly! I've pointed that out to DavidP but he insist that anyone
who lets this forum sway their decision are "idiots" and that's his
EXACT word, not mine.
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
Click to expand...
 
Mario Georgiou said:
time and lack of use through it being in the Shop. Not to say that
all 10D's will be, but on the off chance that I happen to purchase
one of the dodgy ones I'd like to be assured that it will be fixed
in a timely fashion and that I get a replacement for when it
doesn't. Every Day the camera is in the shop is a day when I dont
have it available for shooting. Now this is all academic as I don't
have a 10D ... I want a camera like the 10D because it has
facilities/feature my D60 doesn't. Heres to hoping that the next
camera they bring out has more ... so I can justify buying it. Next
spring I will be in the market for another body so I will either
Buy a 10D (or eos 3D if they bring one out) or a 1DS if I can
afford it.
Click to expand...
In the "off chance" you might get a defective camera, you are not purchasing a particular model. So you advocate a recall of the model since there is an "off chance" it may be defective.

LOL!

Olga
 
Yeah it seems a little extreme and if the case is that all units of a particular series were defective then, yes I would advocate that ... however I'm also certain that if Canon were to realize that there was such a problem then they would have done so. Just like in the recall of other products an advisory can be issued which allows folks to know there may be an issue. It's only when it’s really dangerous that a total model recall is made and LOL as we can safely assume the 10D is far from dangerous. We are talking about a camera and some folks have received units which have a common problem. All I'm saying is that it is a genuine problem and that it should be recognized as such ... Enough folks have complained about the problem it for it to be fairly safe in recognizing it as an issue. It's not just here at DP Review but also at the half dozen or so other sites, I visit on occasion that this has been reported. I just think that Canon have been quiet for too long on the matter.

My reason for not buying a 10D are more logical than being afraid of buying a faulty unit. The 10D is not enough of an upgrade from a D60 for me to merit spending the additional money. I have a D60 I don't need another similar camera. Sorry If I gave a different impression.

:)
Olga Johnson said:
In the "off chance" you might get a defective camera, you are not
purchasing a particular model. So you advocate a recall of the
model since there is an "off chance" it may be defective.

LOL!

Olga
Click to expand...
--
Mario Georgiou
Designer and Digital Artist
 
Ok Pearl Rider, I'll play ... any manufacturer who issues a product with registration cards can notify registered customers. Customers who haven't registered or been registered by the retailer can be notified through a conditional advisory via the press and through websites like this... Satisfied... :)
Pearl Rider said:
Mario Georgiou said:
Its fairly straight forward for a manufacturer to recall a product
if it has problems ... and its also good PR for them to do so.
Click to expand...
Bull Shannon (Night Court) mode engaged... "Oooookay!" ;-)
Click to expand...
--
Mario Georgiou
Designer and Digital Artist
 
Mario Georgiou said:
Ok Pearl Rider, I'll play ... any manufacturer who issues a product
with registration cards can notify registered customers. Customers
who haven't registered or been registered by the retailer can be
notified through a conditional advisory via the press and through
websites like this... Satisfied... :)
Click to expand...
I'm not doubting you about HOW it could be done... just the idea that it WILL be done. I have serious doubts about that. Oooookay?
 
The D60 is indeed a great cam. I find the AF system just fine. In fact, I would rather have it not function in low light than be really quick and inaccurate.
Steven said:
DavidP said:
He's since gone back to the D60. Even AFTER getting his 10D focus
calibration issues solved.
John Davis said:
DavidP said:
The oversized 10D AF sensor could be considered a "design flaw".
It's certainly worth keeping in mind. It may or may not have a
negative impact on a person's shooting.
Click to expand...
Uh?
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
Click to expand...
--
Steve
D60
Sony 707
L fever high
Click to expand...
--
All my work are belong to me
 
Heh, well, I don't ever plan to sell or trade in my D60. I've still got an old K1000 body laying around somewhere. My father figures I should sell it for $100 or so, but I figure if I keep it for another 50 years, it will be a valuable antique :)
Nill Toulme said:
Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net
John Mankos said:
DavidP said:
Maybe John Mankos can explain it better. He's a prime example.
He likes the way the D60 focuses better than the 10D. The 10D's
center AF sensor is big enough that it often looks past small
targets (like birds) and focuses on the grass behind it. He didn't
have that problem with the D60.

He's since gone back to the D60. Even AFTER getting his 10D focus
calibration issues solved.
Click to expand...
Yes, even after my miscalibration issues were taken care of....I
still wasnt happy with the accuracy of the focusing system.

The D60 is a bit slower (in good light it's hardly noticable). The
D60 will hunt sometimes if the contrast isn't what it needs, or if
the light is very poor.

However....I'm confident that when the D60 locks focus....I got the
shot. I could never get that feeling of trust with the 10D. I'd
MUCH rather have to re-try focus because it didnt get a
lock.....rather than go home thinking I got a bunch of good shots
that were actually missed becaus the camera grabbed something in
the background that was outside of the square.
Nill Toulme said:
John Davis said:
DavidP said:
The oversized 10D AF sensor could be considered a "design flaw".
It's certainly worth keeping in mind. It may or may not have a
negative impact on a person's shooting.
Click to expand...
Uh?
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
Click to expand...
--
John



Equipment list in profile...subject to change on a daily basis ;^)
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and
it holds the universe together
Join the Mid-Atlantic DSLR group....for all DSLR Users in the
Eastern PA, NJ, DE, MD areas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlantic-dslr/join
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Click to expand...
--
All my work are belong to me
 
Mario Georgiou said:
safely assume the 10D is far from dangerous. We are talking about a
camera and some folks have received units which have a common
problem.
Click to expand...
We are in agreement.
Mario Georgiou said:
All I'm saying is that it is a genuine problem and that it
should be recognized as such ... Enough folks have complained about
the problem it for it to be fairly safe in recognizing it as an
issue. It's not just here at DP Review but also at the half dozen
or so other sites, I visit on occasion that this has been reported.
Click to expand...
I only wonder if it isn't the same group of folks who complain all over the place. Considering that they sell an average of 1,000 cameras a day, I haven't seen too many different posters complaining. If anything, just the other day someone started 3 different threads with the same refrain within a few hours.

There's a difference between a poster with a real problem who explains it in his message and a poster who makes broad statements about a problem he/she has not encountered but would like others to believe what he says only because he says it.
Mario Georgiou said:
I just think that Canon have been quiet for too long on the matter.
Click to expand...
They haven't been exactly quiet. Chuck Westfall has made statements about it. It's just that the naysayers do not like his statements.
Mario Georgiou said:
My reason for not buying a 10D are more logical than being afraid
of buying a faulty unit. The 10D is not enough of an upgrade from a
D60 for me to merit spending the additional money. I have a D60 I
don't need another similar camera. Sorry If I gave a different
impression.
Click to expand...
If I had a D60, I probably would not upgrade either. :-)

Olga
 
Olga Johnson said:
I only wonder if it isn't the same group of folks who complain all
over the place. Considering that they sell an average of 1,000
cameras a day, I haven't seen too many different posters
complaining.
Click to expand...
Could well be ...

If anything, just the other day someone started 3
Olga Johnson said:
different threads with the same refrain within a few hours.
Click to expand...
too bad they couldn't just start one eh?
Olga Johnson said:
There's a difference between a poster with a real problem who
explains it in his message and a poster who makes broad statements
about a problem he/she has not encountered but would like others to
believe what he says only because he says it.
Click to expand...
True ... :)

Mario Georgiou
Designer and Digital Artist
 
Pearl Rider said:
Mario Georgiou said:
Ok Pearl Rider, I'll play ... any manufacturer who issues a product
with registration cards can notify registered customers. Customers
who haven't registered or been registered by the retailer can be
notified through a conditional advisory via the press and through
websites like this... Satisfied... :)
Click to expand...
I'm not doubting you about HOW it could be done... just the idea
that it WILL be done. I have serious doubts about that. Oooookay?
Click to expand...
Cool ... You're probably correct ... :)

BTW ... Bull happens to be one of my favourite characters.
--
Mario Georgiou
Designer and Digital Artist
 
If one can correct focus or DOF during post, maybe --just maybe-- one could correct pointing the camera in the wrong direction and/or shooting with the cap still on the lens? Oh --my starz-- the shots I could keep if this is true!!!!!

Time travel through post-processing. What WiLL they think of next?

Thanks for the best chuckle of my day.

Joe
DevoX said:
The local dealer, who will remain nameless, told me that the
autofocus problems were due to "so-called professionals" not
understanding how "RAW works".

They said that autofocus issues are solved by shooting in the RAW
format, because DoF can be adjusted with ZoomBrowser.

eh?

I BS you not, this is from a fairly reputable camera shop here in
Omaha, Nebraska. I've never bought from them in the past and I was
considering purchasing my 10D from them until the idiot at the
sales counter brought that up. I asked him to clarify, "so I can
adjust autofocus problems in post? widen the aperature or
something?" and he replied "yeah, you can adjust the DoF in the
Canon utilities in post production". I stood there, dumbfounded at
what I had just heard, until I thanked the fellow and left.

This was coming from a reputable dealer with multiple locations!
From an older gentleman who looks like he's been shooting for many
years.

Anyway... that's my little story.
Click to expand...
 
I just came back from where I bought my camera and the guy tested my camera to see if the camera had the AF problem, and he said that my camera is fine! All he did was try a wide angle lens, focus in a lady, compare background and foreground for sharpness and that's it! He said that the defect is pretty obvious when the camera really has a problem. We didn't print any images though, does that makes differences?
Oh well thank GOD is fine:)
I am soo happy:):):)
 
I had 2 10d's so I do believe all 10d's have some kind of focus issue and soft.
Pearl Rider said:
Steven said:
You may have a good one. But there are many out there that have
problems. People have to start believing there Canon product has a
flaw so Canon will fix it. IMO all 10D's have a focus issue.
Click to expand...
THERE IT IS! The cards are on the table now. This is what's been
going on here. It's been an opinion battle. Here's a guy who claims
he's been biased against buying a 10D because of this forum and
someone responds to calm the fear a bit but then he gets shot down
by someone who WANTS people to believe that ALL 10Ds are DEFECTIVE
because HE had one.
Click to expand...
--
Steve
D60
Sony 707
L fever high
 
That's pretty much my feelings as well. When I dumped my D60 for the 10D I expected the AF to perform just as well as the D60 in terms of accuracy.

Hard lesson learned about upgradeitis I guess.....
Rylee Isitt said:
Steven said:
DavidP said:
He's since gone back to the D60. Even AFTER getting his 10D focus
calibration issues solved.
John Davis said:
DavidP said:
The oversized 10D AF sensor could be considered a "design flaw".
It's certainly worth keeping in mind. It may or may not have a
negative impact on a person's shooting.
Click to expand...
Uh?
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
Click to expand...
--
Steve
D60
Sony 707
L fever high
Click to expand...
--
All my work are belong to me
Click to expand...
--
John



Equipment list in profile...subject to change on a daily basis ;^)

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together

Join the Mid-Atlantic DSLR group....for all DSLR Users in the Eastern PA, NJ, DE, MD areas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlantic-dslr/join
 
A forum member on http://www.vwvortex.com got really bad customer service at a VW/Audi dealer in Atlanta Georgia USA. The guy grossly bad mouthed the dealership over and over again. The dealer went after the guy and won the lawsuit.

I do not know all the specifics about the case, but this is the basic situation and the dealership won.

--

'More people shoot Nikon than all other companies combined'. quote from 2003 Nikon Presentation. http://www.pbase.com/daytontp/
 
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