10 Myths of the rule of thirds

"Yippee, I don't need no stinking rules, I can let my inner genius free."

You won't get any contrarian argument from me.
 
From Pforsell to the OP:
"The ROT is a disease and makes any hack with a camera think they are masters of composition. A good evidence of this are the numerous hostile posts you received. You heretic a-hole shook their complacent world and now you need to be crucified ASAP!"
Actually, this was the most hostile comment in the whole thread.
As I noted, I found it rather tongue-in-cheek with a good dose of reality in the mix. What do you find so hostile? Did you miss the "Smiley Face" at the end of that paragraph? Perhaps I should have added that to my post as well.
The smiley face does not make it less hostile. He distorts the position of all critical of that blog post and then ridicules them. Nobody here ever said that the ROT is the rule of all rules, and has to be followed religiously. In fact, most of the critiques were exactly about the implicit assumption (should I call it a myth?) that the ROT is a dogma, and the blogger sees himself as a dogma fighter. Pforsell pretends that he did not understand that, and by doing this, he insults the intelligence of everybody reading this thread, critical of the blog or not.
nuance is difficult to convey at times in postings. I chose not to read too much into posts, nor do I attempt to get into the mind of the poster. I prefer to ask them if I am not sure.

I am guessing that if he decides to respond he will.
I did not say anything the first time, and I was very brief the second one, but since you asked...
 
"Of course Kubrick made an entire career out of 'central' composition and in more modern times we can say the same thing about Wes Anderson..."

Deep Throat was the real rule breaker here, and you rarely hear about the rules of composition in relation to that movie.
 
Anyway, here's my favorite example of the RoT: :-)


David

--
When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.'
Here's my favorite example of ROT.



71bfd2c5f27d4f5398486027cb0d5c54.jpg.png


See that horrible painting on the wall. Seriously annoying.

--
 
"Does somebody make some sort of gizmo I can stuff in my viewfinder so I know where all 'the power points where the rectilinears meet the baroque and sinister diagonals fall broadly on the ROT'? And then I only press the shutter when the heavens and stars align?"

This is how inventions happen.
 
Anyway, here's my favorite example of the RoT: :-)


David

--
When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.'
Here's my favorite example of ROT.

71bfd2c5f27d4f5398486027cb0d5c54.jpg.png


See that horrible painting on the wall. Seriously annoying.

--
http://www.salintara.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robcoll/
Yes, sir...the lamp is perfectly placed! :-)

David

--
When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.'
 
Anyway, here's my favorite example of the RoT: :-)


David

--
When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.'
Here's my favorite example of ROT.

71bfd2c5f27d4f5398486027cb0d5c54.jpg.png


See that horrible painting on the wall. Seriously annoying.

--
http://www.salintara.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robcoll/
Yes, sir...the lamp is perfectly placed! :-)
Am I the only one who sees that bright TV?
 
That was a good well written article, I'd say with lots of good information about composition. I do agree that the rule of 3rds can certainly become a rather useless cliche. Still, I think that it's a bit more useful than what the author was implying in the article. There are certainly lots of great photographs that hew to this rule and I think that the 3rds proportion can indeed be very elegant... and effective. Still, if you're only going to ally this one one to your photographs, than you'd be missing a lot of compositional ideas that could make your photos much more compelling...

Look at it as just one of many ways to look at composition and you'll be alright... There's nothing wrong with it, just that like so many things folks to easily think of it as gospel and igore everything else...
 
"...artists used geometry..."

And all the bases are covered no matter how you "use" it: if your image is symmetrical, it's balanced and harmonious, whereas if your image is asymmetrical, it's dynamic and has tension.

My personal favorite composition technique is the Rule of What Looks Best (RWLB).
This is a silly argument that you like to keep bringing up. As with anything, the folks who are really successful at it start with a framework of what seems to work. It might not be the rule of thirds or anything else spoken about here, but it's a bit more than your RWLB would imply. Whatever rules, guidelines, whatever you want to call them, might not have been learning in books, classrooms, etc (but they very well could have) but even if you're only learning from yourself, if you're at all good at what you do, you probably have built up a library of what works and what does so that you're approaching each new thing that you do with some ideas of how to do it...
 
Here's how to compose a picture: Look through the viewfinder. Move your camera until you think the composition looks good. Take the photo.

You don't need any grids or patterns. Most of those "alternatives" to the rule of thirds are BS. When you take a grid with so many lines and points and overlay it on a picture, you always get some things that somewhat align. It doesn't mean the artist used the grid. In many cases the subjects don't even align, they are just adjacent. You can take any grid and align it on ANY picture, and everything will *almost* align. It means nothing.
 
Anyway, here's my favorite example of the RoT: :-)


David

--
When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.'
Here's my favorite example of ROT.

71bfd2c5f27d4f5398486027cb0d5c54.jpg.png


See that horrible painting on the wall. Seriously annoying.

--
http://www.salintara.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robcoll/
Yes, sir...the lamp is perfectly placed! :-)
Am I the only one who sees that bright TV?
I'm more worried about the gun

BTW: is this one frame from a movie?
 
"This is a silly argument that you like to keep bringing up."

I can't resist making a silly argument, especially after reading such a silly article.

Art rules strike me as similar to business rules. Management people come up with these endless schemes for being successful. You know what makes a profitable business? Trial and error.
 
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"Most of those 'alternatives' to the rule of thirds are BS."

Bless the ones who make sense.
 
The biggest myth is 'rules of thirds'.

It is really the golden ratio and it is found through out nature, music, architecture, and many other things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
Another load of old twaddle, apparently.
Quote from that: Devlin says it's simple. "We're creatures who are genetically programmed to see patterns and to seek meaning,"

Which IMO is important to realise if you are trying to understand ANY of the compositional guides discussed in this thread, from 'RoT' up to the Arabesque [which can be almost anything not angular]
 
Photography is also artistry. And artistry is not something that can be containerized by rules.
Yeah... I think that you're getting the wrong message here. The term "rules" is perhaps a poor one and a better way of thinking of it would be of building a framework of different ideas that CAN work very well. The goal then is to develop to a point where you have a sense of which compositional ideas from the framework that you've developed are going to work best in a particular situation. The idea that learning and understanding the "rule of thirds" somehow will hamstring the photographer into overusing it is really missing the point of all of this. The point is that you use utilize these concepts when they're appropriate. It's just like a carpenter: he knows when it's most appropriate to drive a screw rather than a nail and has practice with each of these techniques so that he's most effective no matter what technique is being used.


If you only learn a few compositional techniques and use them over and over again, your work is likely to become stale rather quickly. If you lean a lot about composition though then you'll have lots to draw upon and then the quality of what you do is likely to be much more consistent then if you aren't putting any thought at all into what your doing. The process is really no different than that of a jazz musician who though it may appear that they're working off of nothing but pure inspiration when they're playing (that's the idea!), the truth is that before they got to that place they really needed to understand much about music. You learn and then that knowledge becomes an almost subliminal part of the process so that it will appear that you're not working from any kind of knowledge at all...A photographer who has no knowledge of the medium might come up with some decent photos by accident (it is certainly possible to do that in this medium) but unless they've bothered to learn some things about the medium, both technically and aesthetically, either from trial and error or research then the good stuff that they've done is unlikely to be repeatable...
You know that many photographers have never used the auto-scene features on their cameras. You know why? They feel that those things are for beginners. And it's a shame too, because they're occasionally a delight.
I think that you're really making a stretch to connect the idea of folks having fixed notions of composition with unwillingness to play with some scene modes on their cameras. I know that for me, I much prefer to have a greater degree of control in the effects that I might apply to an image. I just fail to see how this is so much having a knee jerk opinion on such things as just haveing a differnt preference of how I like to work... Nice try though!
Some cameras can be set up to make very useable JPEG shots. But most people in a forum won't accept that, or allow anyone else to accept such a notion.
I accept that 100%! I just don't agree that it makes you a better or worse photographers. I happen to enjoy the post processing part of it and want more control over the images than what I'd be able to get with a JPEG. I freely admit though that there are photograhers out there who are producing work that is much more impressive than my own and shooting JPEGs. It seems to me that you're conflating the idea that others don't agree with you that there's more skill somehow of "getting the JPEG right in the camera," with the idea that those folks also don't have any respect for those that shoot JPEGs. I guess that I don't have that binary, "one way is going to clearly be better than the other" view on lots of things... It's merely a personal preference as far as I'm concerned.
The webpage as a whole described a man who had learned photography from people such as those who enforce their will over others here- Who would mock, insult, and ridicule anyone who disagreed with them. He learned photography just as most of us learned it; by force. We come here ignorant and eager for knowledge, and we all get force-fed a bunch of technical nonsense.
Well... I've studied both graphic design and photography formally and it wasn't my experience that learning either was really all that dogmatic. With both, it seemed that I had teachers who taught some concepts and best practices but who also left room for individual creativity. Learning and becoming really dogmatic about the subject doesn't have to be the case. Often learning about something can actually open your mind to the possibilities as well as helping one develop a working method that helps one to attain a more consistent level of quality in their work.


Because some folks here seem to preach a really dogmatic way of doing photography, doesn't mean that learning something about the process necessarily means that you need to follow their advice. I just don't quite see at as the binary, dogma vs freedom argument that you seem to be making...
The only thing that the rule of thirds does is put a box around your art. It's not a frame either, it's a prison. Do not go past this. It prevents. It shapes something that should be unshapeable. It tries to quantify emotion with math. It is the antithesis of artistry. It is the opposite of what you want. And what you want... That's easy. Freedom.
As I've said, it's merely just one of many things to think about and yes if you ONLY think about the rule of thirds when you shoot then it certainly is a prison.
"The camera likes you". I'm sure you've heard of this. It's much like that. When you are free, you point the camera wherever you will. You use your mind to make it look right, but you use your heart too. It isn't a blind guess, it's intuitive creativity.
The idea of intuition though can come from some learning: see the above example of the jazz musician. Knowledge and intuition can co exist and this seems like the strongest space to work in.
The rules of thirds and almost everything else that is based on equations lacks emotion.
No... the emotion is the x-factor that the artist brings to the work. An effective composition or any kind of technical knowhow doesn't have to negate the emotion of a piece. In fact, employing some tecnical or compositional knowhow can actually help convey the emotion that the artist is trying to put fourth in the work. Again, the example of the jazz musician, there can be plenty of emotion happening but yet there's an understanding of the mechanics too... the musician understands how certain combinations of notes and certain rhythmic phrasing can effect the emotion... so that's all part of it
Photography is not that complicated.
True, it can be very simple. it depends on what you want to do though, if your vision requires a certain aesthetic then this might be a little toucher then "simple." Also, if you want to be able to get consistently repeatable effects so that you can pre-visualize what you want and come close to getting that, then this can be a bit more compicated.
The reality is that some people really do have a better eye.
Yes... but we can learn how to se better. I feel like I've done that and lots of other folks would claim the same experience. To some degree the potential that we have is inmate, but we aren't necessarily realizing that potential if we don't make some concerted efforts to learn something about the medium that we're working in. Some folks will pick up some things fast and others who end up creating really great work had to make much more of an effort to get there... so the idea of the "instant genius" seems like a rather naive idea of how artists develop. I've seen just the oposite of that plenty of times.
The reality is that some people actually do have talent and others do not.
Yes... but to realize that "talent" it might take much more effort for some people. Again the idea that any kind of ability is going to be obvious from the get go is a bit simple minded.
The reality is that photography is easy. You're not painting anything from scratch. Just learn a little bit about cameras and if you have any talent at all, you can take excellent pictures too. You'll change over time, your work will mature, and that's all.
If you're serious about the medium, you might bother to study it and learn some things. If you're an intelligent, creative sort of person you'll be able to use this information to improve what you do rather than to let it narrow your artistic vision.

--
my flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/128435329@N08/
 
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Here's how to compose a picture: Look through the viewfinder. Move your camera until you think the composition looks good. Take the photo.

You don't need any grids or patterns. Most of those "alternatives" to the rule of thirds are BS. When you take a grid with so many lines and points and overlay it on a picture, you always get some things that somewhat align. It doesn't mean the artist used the grid. In many cases the subjects don't even align, they are just adjacent. You can take any grid and align it on ANY picture, and everything will *almost* align. It means nothing.
Hmmm... I just can't see that working without any framework at all is the best way to go. Is that how Frank Lloyd Wright worked... or Bach? I don't think so. Photography is just another artistic endeavor and just the like aforementioned examples it can benefit from gaining some understanding of the technique unique to the medium and the kind of design fundamentals that any visual medium is subject to. I just don't see that photography is some unique in this respect.
 
"This is a silly argument that you like to keep bringing up."

I can't resist making a silly argument, especially after reading such a silly article.

Art rules strike me as similar to business rules. Management people come up with these endless schemes for being successful. You know what makes a profitable business? Trial and error.
Trial and error though implies that there's some sort of method. In this sense it just means that the method was learned through error... I'm merely saying that firstly, that there is a method to coming up that artist generally have (though each of us is different) and that since there is a method, some of that can be learned. These management folks generally got an MBA so they know something about what they were doing and then... you're right, the rest is trial and error. One doesn't negate the other and more often than not the folks who are really successful did a fair about of each.
 
Hmmm... I just can't see that working without any framework at all is the best way to go. Is that how Frank Lloyd Wright worked... or Bach? I don't think so.
Depends on what you shoot. If you can't arrange the objects in the viewfinder, you can alter where you stand and field of view. But if you're creating a scene, arranging objects, posing models, then you have all the control in the world.

I do the former, not the latter, and use that as my excuse for composing by eye :)

- Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
Hmmm... I just can't see that working without any framework at all is the best way to go. Is that how Frank Lloyd Wright worked... or Bach? I don't think so.
Depends on what you shoot. If you can't arrange the objects in the viewfinder, you can alter where you stand and field of view. But if you're creating a scene, arranging objects, posing models, then you have all the control in the world.

I do the former, not the latter, and use that as my excuse for composing by eye :)
Yeah... I don't shoot studio scenes either and I still think about composition when I'm shooting. if you're "composing by eye" as you put it, you can still do that by thinking of certain frameworks that you might like to use. It's all bout where you put the camrea... where you place the frame, waht focal length lens your using, etc.
 
Hmmm... I just can't see that working without any framework at all is the best way to go. Is that how Frank Lloyd Wright worked... or Bach? I don't think so.
Depends on what you shoot. If you can't arrange the objects in the viewfinder, you can alter where you stand and field of view. But if you're creating a scene, arranging objects, posing models, then you have all the control in the world.

I do the former, not the latter, and use that as my excuse for composing by eye :)
Yeah... I don't shoot studio scenes either and I still think about composition when I'm shooting. if you're "composing by eye" as you put it, you can still do that by thinking of certain frameworks that you might like to use. It's all bout where you put the camrea... where you place the frame, waht focal length lens your using, etc.
Often it is about that little movement of the camera that suddenly makes things line up in an interesting way, a line up which wasn't visible from the other position just a little way off...

Regards, Mike
 

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