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Upgrade to PEN F ?

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I think most people's general attitude toward this camera is a reflection of how saturated the market is. I am sure it's a great camera, but given the availability of what is already out there, what does this camera truly have to offer that people don't have already, especially at it's projected price point of $1500?

It looks to be the Olympus OMD EM5ii in a rangefinder styled body, with 20% more resolution, and no weather sealing. The gain in performance and capability is marginal at best. With cameras like the Olympus EM1 mark ii on the horizon or possibly GH5, which will probably introduce new technology or better video, I think most people would rather take the wait and see approach.

Personally, I use the G7 for video and family photos, which is blazing fast with about the same image quality as other M43 cameras to boot. At some point I will get another M43 camera, but the PEN-F doesn't tempt me at all. But that is only my opinion. I know this is this all conjecture at this point and the camera has not yet been released, but how much above our expectations will this camera punch?
 
75mm f/1.8 is not weather sealed, just like other primes than 60mm f/2.8 Macro.

So why does prime users worry about body designed for primes, not being a weather sealed?

Even the power switch whine is a moot as cameras should use sleep mode.
 
From the specs and particularly the price, no I won't be adding the Pen F. Cameras over $1k require serious budgeting, and I'm still paying off my previous purchase (12-40mm and 14-150mm lenses). If it had been a replacement for the low cost models like the E-PM2, I might consider it.

For me, the lack of weather sealing is an issue for a high end camera. Rain happens, and I prefer not to have to use bags to protect the gear.

Even if I had the money, I would need to see it in person, to see whether I could use the camera at all in bright sun with polarized sunglasses.

Also, I'm not a fan of increasing the sensor megapixels. Using the diffraction calculator at Cambridge In Colour (Sensor size calculators), shows that diffraction starts becoming visible around f/6.5 (it is f/7.3 for 16MP cameras).
 
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Michael Meissner said:
From the specs and particularly the price, no I won't be adding the Pen F. Cameras over $1k require serious budgeting, and I'm still paying off my previous purchase (12-40mm and 14-150mm lenses). If it had been a replacement for the low cost models like the E-PM2, I might consider it.

For me, the lack of weather sealing is an issue.

Even if I had the money, I would need to see it in person, to see whether I could use the camera at all in bright sun with polarized sunglasses.

Also, I'm not a fan of increasing the sensor megapixels. Using the diffraction calculator at Cambridge In Colour (Sensor size calculators), shows that diffraction starts becoming visible around f/6.5 (it is f/7.3 for 16MP cameras).
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That is out of date and probably looked at sensor tech from a 2010 perspective. Are you telling me that 42mp ff Sony sensor is diffraction limited to f8?

The 20mp sensor is very very good, Olympus made a wise decision.
 
Michael Meissner said:
From the specs and particularly the price, no I won't be adding the Pen F. Cameras over $1k require serious budgeting, and I'm still paying off my previous purchase (12-40mm and 14-150mm lenses). If it had been a replacement for the low cost models like the E-PM2, I might consider it.

For me, the lack of weather sealing is an issue for a high end camera. Rain happens, and I prefer not to have to use bags to protect the gear.

Even if I had the money, I would need to see it in person, to see whether I could use the camera at all in bright sun with polarized sunglasses.

Also, I'm not a fan of increasing the sensor megapixels. Using the diffraction calculator at Cambridge In Colour (Sensor size calculators), shows that diffraction starts becoming visible around f/6.5 (it is f/7.3 for 16MP cameras).
Click to expand...
To put it in another perspective: around here (EU) 2nd hand, 5-6 months used e-m5II's cost ~700, even 800€. If you are after 5-axis IBIS & high-res mode, which camera would you take? Fortunately I can wait a few months, which I suspect will see great price drops both in 2nd hand and new equipment.
 
I like the new Pen a lot, now I just need to wait patiently for the price to drop a bit. It makes no sense for me now to upgrade to E-M5 II cause it doesn't feature the new sensor and new processor. Also I only have non-weathersealed lenses.
 
Robstar63 said:
K25 said:
Skeeterbytes said:
Otherwise, an E-M5ii or E-M1 makes better sense. I would be all over the new Pen if I were an existing Pen owner, because I'd be sick and tired of the attachment EVF.
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as a Pen owner I'd be sick of no more having the attachment (tiltable) EVF.

If the new sensor will not be be a huge improvement, then I will wait for E-P6.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid you will be waiting a long time for an EP6 - from my understanding the PEN F is the replacement for the EP5 and there will be no more EP'x' cameras
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Time will teach us, but I don't think that PEN F means <PEN deFinitive>. I suspect that will be followed by other models... And that new OLED screens will reduce the need of an integrated EVF, to the advantage of a tiltable-attachment-EVF.
 
Advent1sam said:
Michael Meissner said:
From the specs and particularly the price, no I won't be adding the Pen F. Cameras over $1k require serious budgeting, and I'm still paying off my previous purchase (12-40mm and 14-150mm lenses). If it had been a replacement for the low cost models like the E-PM2, I might consider it.

For me, the lack of weather sealing is an issue.

Even if I had the money, I would need to see it in person, to see whether I could use the camera at all in bright sun with polarized sunglasses.

Also, I'm not a fan of increasing the sensor megapixels. Using the diffraction calculator at Cambridge In Colour (Sensor size calculators), shows that diffraction starts becoming visible around f/6.5 (it is f/7.3 for 16MP cameras).
Click to expand...
That is out of date and probably looked at sensor tech from a 2010 perspective. Are you telling me that 42mp ff Sony sensor is diffraction limited to f8?
Click to expand...
I believe it is due the characteristics of light itself at frequencies in the visible light spectrum. I'm a software guy, but as I read about airy disks (http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm), I don't see that there is much hope when you are looking at things at 100% with such large sensors.

In general, things like pixel binning and sharpening help push back the limit (though of course pixel binning is reducing the resolution of the image, and sharpening is essentially the best guess where the lines are in the face of noisy data).
Advent1sam said:
The 20mp sensor is very very good, Olympus made a wise decision.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it is good, but as you increase the resolution, you get into diminishing returns in terms of the final image.
 
Valentinian said:
I am a modest amateur. have an E M-5, and soon or later will consider upgrading.

it seems to me that the Pen F compared to the E M-5 has:

50% better EVF

25% better sensor

25 % better AF and tracking ability

25% better dials, buttons and ergonomics

10% less usability, for not being water-sealing.

Is all that worth FOR ME to shed $1,500 ?

Maybe no, I better use my (little) money for a new lens (which one, that's another story)

If what you have is an E-M5, what is your take?
Click to expand...
I wait for the successor of the OM-D EM1.
 
RoelHendrickx said:
Hitherto said:
No 4K, no weather sealing, no PDAF.... nope.
Click to expand...
Ditto here.

I will get an E-M1 MkII when it materializes, and if my need arises sooner than that (like in the case of major camera breakdown), I think I will prefer getting the older E-M1 at reduced price.
Click to expand...
OK so this is what I did just now.

Realizing that in all probability, an E-M1 MkII would not be available for purchase in 2016 anymore, I just bought an E-M1 mkI.

I just cannot take the risk of a breakdown of my main camera (E-M5) in the year 2016 (my shutter count is moving towards 80000...), with no replacement ready to go and me being used to using it. Too many big photo opportunities in the near future.

And with that decision made, I could just as well start enjoying a new camera rather today than tomorrow. So I just bought the damn thing.

Yesterday I've enjoyed myself with looking at all the novelties (wifi, keystone correction, focus peaking, PDAF on sensor, better EVF, silent shutter option, customizable buttons, but also "fun" stuff like color creator haha, photo story haha, multiple exposure, timelapse movie, HDR, etc etc).

Lots of stuff that I do not really need, but I bet that also the basics have improved noticeably.

I'll be using the E-M1 as main camera with the bigger lenses, and keep using E-M5 in its smallest form with the small primes (or for a two-camera setup for jobs etc).

--
Roel Hendrickx
lots of images: www.roelh.zenfolio.com
my Olympus user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html
 
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Valentinian said:
I am a modest amateur. have an E M-5, and soon or later will consider upgrading.

it seems to me that the Pen F compared to the E M-5 has:

50% better EVF

25% better sensor

25 % better AF and tracking ability

25% better dials, buttons and ergonomics

10% less usability, for not being water-sealing.

Is all that worth FOR ME to shed $1,500 ?

Maybe no, I better use my (little) money for a new lens (which one, that's another story)

If what you have is an E-M5, what is your take?
Click to expand...
I would say that unless you are enamored with the body style of the Pen F that you would be better off going for an E-M5II or E-M10II as an upgrade for your E-M5. Much better prices than the Pen F too.
 
RoelHendrickx said:
RoelHendrickx said:
Hitherto said:
No 4K, no weather sealing, no PDAF.... nope.
Click to expand...
Ditto here.

I will get an E-M1 MkII when it materializes, and if my need arises sooner than that (like in the case of major camera breakdown), I think I will prefer getting the older E-M1 at reduced price.
Click to expand...
OK so this is what I did just now.

Realizing that in all probability, an E-M1 MkII would not be available for purchase in 2016 anymore, I just bought an E-M1 mkI.

I just cannot take the risk of a breakdown of my main camera (E-M5) in the year 2016 (my shutter count is moving towards 80000...), with no replacement ready to go and me being used to using it. Too many big photo opportunities in the near future.

And with that decision made, I could just as well start enjoying a new camera rather today than tomorrow. So I just bought the damn thing.

Yesterday I've enjoyed myself with looking at all the novelties (wifi, keystone correction, focus peaking, PDAF on sensor, better EVF, silent shutter option, customizable buttons, but also "fun" stuff like color creator haha, photo story haha, multiple exposure, timelapse movie, HDR, etc etc).

Lots of stuff that I do not really need, but I bet that also the basics have improved noticeably.

I'll be using the E-M1 as main camera with the bigger lenses, and keep using E-M5 in its smallest form with the small primes (or for a two-camera setup for jobs etc).
Click to expand...
 
mujana said:
RoelHendrickx said:
RoelHendrickx said:
Hitherto said:
No 4K, no weather sealing, no PDAF.... nope.
Click to expand...
Ditto here.

I will get an E-M1 MkII when it materializes, and if my need arises sooner than that (like in the case of major camera breakdown), I think I will prefer getting the older E-M1 at reduced price.
Click to expand...
OK so this is what I did just now.

Realizing that in all probability, an E-M1 MkII would not be available for purchase in 2016 anymore, I just bought an E-M1 mkI.

I just cannot take the risk of a breakdown of my main camera (E-M5) in the year 2016 (my shutter count is moving towards 80000...), with no replacement ready to go and me being used to using it. Too many big photo opportunities in the near future.

And with that decision made, I could just as well start enjoying a new camera rather today than tomorrow. So I just bought the damn thing.

Yesterday I've enjoyed myself with looking at all the novelties (wifi, keystone correction, focus peaking, PDAF on sensor, better EVF, silent shutter option, customizable buttons, but also "fun" stuff like color creator haha, photo story haha, multiple exposure, timelapse movie, HDR, etc etc).

Lots of stuff that I do not really need, but I bet that also the basics have improved noticeably.

I'll be using the E-M1 as main camera with the bigger lenses, and keep using E-M5 in its smallest form with the small primes (or for a two-camera setup for jobs etc).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I think they've well and truly erred on launch price. They gambled on the high end game and will probably lose. The shrinking camera market demands better value for money these days. Looks like a terrific camera... but I reckon in about 6 months the price will fall away due to buyers balking. I like my EP-5 (also very overpriced initially) but thankfully didn't have to mortgage the house to buy it. I don't think they sold a squillion EP-5's either. Cant see me jumping on the Pen F for a good while.

'To live outside the law you've got to be honest'. R. Zimmerman.
 
Henry Richardson said:
Valentinian said:
I am a modest amateur. have an E M-5, and soon or later will consider upgrading.

it seems to me that the Pen F compared to the E M-5 has:

50% better EVF

25% better sensor

25 % better AF and tracking ability

25% better dials, buttons and ergonomics

10% less usability, for not being water-sealing.

Is all that worth FOR ME to shed $1,500 ?

Maybe no, I better use my (little) money for a new lens (which one, that's another story)

If what you have is an E-M5, what is your take?
Click to expand...
I would say that unless you are enamored with the body style of the Pen F that you would be better off going for an E-M5II or E-M10II as an upgrade for your E-M5. Much better prices than the Pen F too.
Click to expand...
 
RoelHendrickx said:
mujana said:
RoelHendrickx said:
RoelHendrickx said:
Hitherto said:
No 4K, no weather sealing, no PDAF.... nope.
Click to expand...
Ditto here.

I will get an E-M1 MkII when it materializes, and if my need arises sooner than that (like in the case of major camera breakdown), I think I will prefer getting the older E-M1 at reduced price.
Click to expand...
OK so this is what I did just now.

Realizing that in all probability, an E-M1 MkII would not be available for purchase in 2016 anymore, I just bought an E-M1 mkI.

I just cannot take the risk of a breakdown of my main camera (E-M5) in the year 2016 (my shutter count is moving towards 80000...), with no replacement ready to go and me being used to using it. Too many big photo opportunities in the near future.

And with that decision made, I could just as well start enjoying a new camera rather today than tomorrow. So I just bought the damn thing.

Yesterday I've enjoyed myself with looking at all the novelties (wifi, keystone correction, focus peaking, PDAF on sensor, better EVF, silent shutter option, customizable buttons, but also "fun" stuff like color creator haha, photo story haha, multiple exposure, timelapse movie, HDR, etc etc).

Lots of stuff that I do not really need, but I bet that also the basics have improved noticeably.

I'll be using the E-M1 as main camera with the bigger lenses, and keep using E-M5 in its smallest form with the small primes (or for a two-camera setup for jobs etc).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Congrats Roel, you'll probably fall in love with the EM1 pretty quickly. Mine relegated both my EM5 and E5 to near-permanent drawer status, it's that good.

Cheers,

Rick

--
Equivalence and diffraction-free since 2009.
You can be too; ask about our 12-step program.
 
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Valentinian said:
Henry Richardson said:
I would say that unless you are enamored with the body style of the Pen F that you would be better off going for an E-M5II or E-M10II as an upgrade for your E-M5. Much better prices than the Pen F too.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
Click to expand...
Thanks, but the improvements of the Pen F or the E M-5II are not enough for me to upgrade. The E M-5 will still do it for another year.
Click to expand...
Just as a reminder, you are the person asking about upgrading to the Pen F. If you have no interest in any upgrade it is rather bizarre that you started a thread asking about upgrading. Don't you think?

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
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Henry Richardson said:
Valentinian said:
Henry Richardson said:
I would say that unless you are enamored with the body style of the Pen F that you would be better off going for an E-M5II or E-M10II as an upgrade for your E-M5. Much better prices than the Pen F too.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
Click to expand...
Thanks, but the improvements of the Pen F or the E M-5II are not enough for me to upgrade. The E M-5 will still do it for another year.
Click to expand...
Just as a reminder, you are the person asking about upgrading to the Pen F. If you have no interest in any upgrade it is rather bizarre that you started a thread asking about upgrading. Don't you think?

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
Click to expand...
:-) bizarre?

maybe not completely.

I read all the comments and digested the information,

then made up my mind. It helped also considering that my E M-5, which cost $900 three years ago, now could be had for less than $400. So, will check the price of the GX8 in a year.
 
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Leaving price aside, I'd probably would go for the Pen F. I think the more direct controls and smaller size would top the lack of weather sealing.

Now, factor-in prices and the scene is completely different. I do have an EM-5 and no way in hell I'm putting $900 on top to get the Pen F.

Then again, don't get me wrong, price aside, I'd would go for the Pen F.
 
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