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Capture One's lens correction profile for the RX10 reduces resolution

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2eyesee

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Working with Capture One 9 Express for Sony on my RX10 files, I've noticed that resolution of the images was not the full 5472x3648 sensor resolution.

Have a look at the following screen capture from Capture One, using a DPR studio test scene RAW file for the RX10 :



As you can see, with no crop applied, Capture One has reduced the RX10's 5472x3648 sensor resolution down to 5016x334. That's reducing our 20MP image down to 16.8MP!

The problem seems to be with Capture One's own Lens Correction profile for the RX10, because when you change it from Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 to Manufacturers Profile we are back to full sensor resolution:



I found this solution on the Phase One forums but thought I'd report it here in case other RX10 users had found the same problem - or maybe hadn't even noticed.
 

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2eyesee said:
Working with Capture One 9 Express for Sony on my RX10 files, I've noticed that resolution of the images was not the full 5472x3648 sensor resolution.

Have a look at the following screen capture from Capture One, using a DPR studio test scene RAW file for the RX10 :



As you can see, with no crop applied, Capture One has reduced the RX10's 5472x3648 sensor resolution down to 5016x334. That's reducing our 20MP image down to 16.8MP!

The problem seems to be with Capture One's own Lens Correction profile for the RX10, because when you change it from Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 to Manufacturers Profile we are back to full sensor resolution:



I found this solution on the Phase One forums but thought I'd report it here in case other RX10 users had found the same problem - or maybe hadn't even noticed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info

--
"Life's Too Short to Worry about the BS!"
Click for Wild Man's Photos
 
I don't have an RX10 but your problem reminds me of similar lens correction issues with my RX100. Capture One is still my go-to raw converter for RX100 but it has several problems (which look like bugs to me). I've learnt to work around them to some extent but the uprezzing still bothers me. However, CO gives me better detail in the corners than LR does and I've created a dcamprof colour profile for RX100 (the original one is wonky) so I still favour it over LR conversions when I need to maximize detail in my photos (mainly in landscape photos).
 
2eyesee said:
The problem seems to be with Capture One's own Lens Correction profile for the RX10, because when you change it from Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 to Manufacturers Profile we are back to full sensor resolution
Click to expand...
The Manufacturer's Profile in CO is the result of the Sony-Phase One cooperation: CO is able to utilize the metadata info to apply the necessary lens corrections as instructed by the manufacturer. The other profile was made by Phase One and it looks like somebody made a mistake with it.
 
Nicolas Robidoux said:
Have you tried unticking the "Hide Distorted Areas" option?
Click to expand...
That does nothing to the size of the image. But if you combine it with 'Crop Outside Image', it does allow you in wide angle shots to see parts of the image that were outside the original frame.
 
sankos said:
2eyesee said:
The problem seems to be with Capture One's own Lens Correction profile for the RX10, because when you change it from Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 to Manufacturers Profile we are back to full sensor resolution
Click to expand...
The Manufacturer's Profile in CO is the result of the Sony-Phase One cooperation: CO is able to utilize the metadata info to apply the necessary lens corrections as instructed by the manufacturer. The other profile was made by Phase One and it looks like somebody made a mistake with it.
Click to expand...
That seems to be the only explanation, which makes me wonder why it's still there in Capture One 9 given that we now have a Manufacturer's Profile? What's worse is that it defaults to using the Capture One profile.
 
sankos said:
I don't have an RX10 but your problem reminds me of similar lens correction issues with my RX100. Capture One is still my go-to raw converter for RX100 but it has several problems (which look like bugs to me). I've learnt to work around them to some extent but the uprezzing still bothers me. However, CO gives me better detail in the corners than LR does and I've created a dcamprof colour profile for RX100 (the original one is wonky) so I still favour it over LR conversions when I need to maximize detail in my photos (mainly in landscape photos).
Click to expand...
I did come across the posts you made when looking into my RX10 resolution issue. It seems the original RX100 has been left with a problematic Capture One Profile - they only started doing the Manufacturer's Profiles from the RX100M2 it seems.

I prefer Capture One over Lightroom and DXO Optics pro now - and I'm just using the Sony Express version at the moment. Hard to believe it's free - it's so good I don't even feel inclined to upgrade to the Sony Pro version.

I just find the default output better and colours more pleasing than DOP and Lightroom, meaning less work for me. The main thing I find I consistently need to do is bump up the blacks levels.
 
Hi,

really strange and thanks for reporting this. Actually I couldn't believe it until I checked it and confirmed that this issue really exists. Owning the RX10 since Dec/13 and working with C1 since about 2007 I'm pretty sure that in the previous V8.3.4 the correction of RX10 files meant correction + resizing so every file had its nominal default pixel count. I've raised a support case at P1 and I'm looking forward about the reasoning behind this (new) processing approach.
 
Michael Fritzen said:
... I'm pretty sure that in the previous V8.3.4 the correction of RX10 files meant correction + resizing so every file had its nominal default pixel count.
Click to expand...
A cropping anomaly also exists in C1 Express for Sony v8.1, but I'm not seeing quite the same anomaly described by the OP.

Looking at a random RAW file downloaded from the Imaging Resource, the Manufacturer Profile yields 5472 x 3648; the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 profile yields 5037 x 3358.

I guess the particular cropping effect is dependent on the specific correction parameters for various focal lengths? I don't really know.
 
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sybersitizen said:
Michael Fritzen said:
... I'm pretty sure that in the previous V8.3.4 the correction of RX10 files meant correction + resizing so every file had its nominal default pixel count.
Click to expand...
A cropping anomaly also exists in C1 Express for Sony v8.1, but I'm not seeing quite the same anomaly described by the OP.

Looking at a random RAW file downloaded from the Imaging Resource, the Manufacturer Profile yields 5472 x 3648; the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 profile yields 5037 x 3358.

I guess the particular cropping effect is dependent on the specific correction parameters for various focal lengths? I don't really know.
Click to expand...
It does seem to vary depending on focal length.
 
Michael Fritzen said:
Hi,

really strange and thanks for reporting this. Actually I couldn't believe it until I checked it and confirmed that this issue really exists. Owning the RX10 since Dec/13 and working with C1 since about 2007 I'm pretty sure that in the previous V8.3.4 the correction of RX10 files meant correction + resizing so every file had its nominal default pixel count. I've raised a support case at P1 and I'm looking forward about the reasoning behind this (new) processing approach.
Click to expand...
I'd be interested in what Phase One have to say. I should have reported it myself - not that it bothers me now though since I have a solution. I just wanted to inform RX10 owners in case they hadn't noticed the problem.
 
I have RX100 MKIII and there is NO CaptureOne's own lens correction profile for this camera. The only option available is the Manufacturer's Profile and it does a pretty good job, may I add. I have the purple fringing down to zero, as it seems to be eliminated through CA correction.
 
2eyesee said:
Michael Fritzen said:
Hi,

really strange and thanks for reporting this. Actually I couldn't believe it until I checked it and confirmed that this issue really exists. Owning the RX10 since Dec/13 and working with C1 since about 2007 I'm pretty sure that in the previous V8.3.4 the correction of RX10 files meant correction + resizing so every file had its nominal default pixel count. I've raised a support case at P1 and I'm looking forward about the reasoning behind this (new) processing approach.
Click to expand...
I'd be interested in what Phase One have to say. I should have reported it myself - not that it bothers me now though since I have a solution. I just wanted to inform RX10 owners in case they hadn't noticed the problem.
Click to expand...
Up to now not really news from P1. Today I've sent them a file for an analyse. I'm really curious what's going on. It may be that the previous processing resampled the file after the corrections applied to get it back to nominal pixel count. If so, it's not clear to me whether this adds to IQ or actually reduce it.
 
Michael Fritzen said:
Up to now not really news from P1. Today I've sent them a file for an analyse. I'm really curious what's going on. It may be that the previous processing resampled the file after the corrections applied to get it back to nominal pixel count. If so, it's not clear to me whether this adds to IQ or actually reduce it.
Click to expand...
You might want to ask this of Nicolas Robidoux (who posted earlier in this thread) -- he knows more about this than any one of us but I'm not sure he is able to talk about this in a forum like this one.

It looks to me that the P1 lens corrections ("Camera Profile") use some kind of resampling procedure (uprezzing followed by downrezzing, likely with some sharpening involved (?)) and bugs like the lens profile for the RX100 mk1 or the RX10 expose that. The resampling seems to be taking place irrespective of the Output Process Recipe setting "Never Upscale" (it doesn't look like it's effective in this case). Version 9 of CO is supposed to have taken care of some resizing problems of the previous versions but the release notes are not very clear about this as well.

--
Marcin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sankos/
 
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Nicolas Robidoux said:
"If you are using a wide-angle lens, the lens tool will typically be correcting for some barrel distortion. You may correct the horizon a tiny bit or do some minor keystone correction to address this. In all these cases of slight adjustment, the image needs to be resized." Capture One 9: Under the Hood
Click to expand...
Well there's certainly no rotational or keystone correction going on here. It just seems to be the automatic distortion correction of the Capture One profile reducing the pixel dimension here.

The question is which is the best profile to use? I would instinctively go for the Manufacturer's Profile in this case as is results in a higher resolution image. But maybe Capture One feel Sony's corrections just stretch the image to the full sensor resolution and their reduced resolution is a more 'true' output? Or maybe it's just a bug?

I will be interested to here from Capture One on this if they get back to Michel Fritzen.
 
Nicolas Robidoux said:
"If you are using a wide-angle lens, the lens tool will typically be correcting for some barrel distortion. You may correct the horizon a tiny bit or do some minor keystone correction to address this. In all these cases of slight adjustment, the image needs to be resized." Capture One 9: Under the Hood
Click to expand...
The change in image size happens through the entire zoom range of the RX10 - not just at wide angle.
 
Last edited:
Hi,

today I received the following message from Phase One's support.

So there is an issue with RX10 files - and as it seems also a work around as long as the bug is not fixed in a future release.

Hope this is also helpful for you.

****

Hi

I have to say this is acting very strange on this specific file.

This is what I have found:

1. File comes in with dimensions 5126x3417
2. Remove Hide distorted areas does not change this which it should
3. Change to Generic lens does not change this.
4. Crop and uncrop image does resolve this.
5. Change back to the RX10 lens correction and now you have full resolution again.

This I have also reported to R&D

Kind Regards

Phase One support
 
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