Win 8 users cut short????

malch said:

Now, I happen to think MS will be moderately successful with Win 10 as a consumer appliance/service and I'm sure they'll sell lots of games, music, entertainment and other goodies via the "store". Loads of scope for ad impressions too.

It's not what I want from my operating system however.

I don't think this bifurcation is altogether surprising if you think about how they've addressed (or failed to address) the different market segments.

The big question that remains to be answered is how willing the Fortune 1000 companies are willing to embrace Win 10 for widescale deployment. So far, they've been a little more positive than I expected. But it's still very early days.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure that Microsoft has been altogether successful in selling through the Windows App Store. I will never defend iTunes as a piece of software, but buying legal MP3 files from Microsoft demanded two separate apps under Windows 8.1! It was a convoluted process and I can't imagine very many people jumping through so many hoops. Amazon, Apple and even Google are much better at selling content and software through their "App" stores.

Windows 10 has more traction with Enterprise users than 8 or 8.1, and the Enterprise Edition of Windows 10 allows more control over updates than Home and Pro consumer versions. Microsoft isn't forcing Windows 10 updates onto unsuspecting corporate IT departments. However, I think that Windows 7 is still the predominant choice of corporate users and Microsoft may have to extend Windows 7 support in the same way they did with XP years ago.

Profitability isn't as big an issue with Enterprise users since Microsoft has that annual licensing revenue, and from the standpoint of licensing, it really doesn't matter if companies are sticking with Windows 7 or going with 10. They're paying the same amount to Microsoft either way.

noflashplease said:

Windows 10 has more traction with Enterprise users than 8 or 8.1, and the Enterprise Edition of Windows 10 allows more control over updates than Home and Pro consumer versions. Microsoft isn't forcing Windows 10 updates onto unsuspecting corporate IT departments. However, I think that Windows 7 is still the predominant choice of corporate users and Microsoft may have to extend Windows 7 support in the same way they did with XP years ago.
Profitability isn't as big an issue with Enterprise users since Microsoft has that annual licensing revenue, and from the standpoint of licensing, it really doesn't matter if companies are sticking with Windows 7 or going with 10. They're paying the same amount to Microsoft either way.

Click to expand...

Based on what I see, more and more enterprise users need little more than a web browser. With services like Google Apps replacing Office and traditional business apps adopting a browser based interface why would companies want to pay for thousands of Windows licenses? They can use Linux and Firefox/Chrome for free. And that software will run fine on cheaper hardware.

So unless MS offer some compelling benefits, I think the user population could shrink by enough to cause some serious pain.

When your only application is a browser, you just don't need Windows.

skyglider said:

stardotstar said:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/still-running-windows-8-time-to-upgrade-or-else/

"Windows 8 is only three years old, so with Microsoft's 10-year support policy, one might assume it's eligible for security updates for many years. But thanks to a quirk in that support lifecycle, the clock runs out in a matter of days. If you're still running Windows 8, it's time to upgrade."

Click to expand...

Stardotstar,

In spite of some folks bashing you for your post, I for one appreciate your posting this info. I was not aware of it until reading your post.

I'm running Win8.0 on my laptop because when I upgraded to Win8.1 when it was first introduced, there were some problems with my particular laptop. I had to go back to Win8.0 to run normally again.

I'll try the upgrade to 8.1 again now which might be more successful because of the many updates that have been released since its introduction.

Thanks for your post,
Sky

Click to expand...

machine to 8.1 and it kept telling me it was no longer available. Figured I would post the link and a snippet of the article, if it sparks someones interest, they will go read the rest. No sense in copying a full article.

Good luck!

Thanks!

--
For those that cannot read or comprehend, the following statement is my signature, not a response to your post!
If you don't see a response from me to your comment, its because you are on my ignore list!

skyglider said:

stardotstar said:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/still-running-windows-8-time-to-upgrade-or-else/

"Windows 8 is only three years old, so with Microsoft's 10-year support policy, one might assume it's eligible for security updates for many years. But thanks to a quirk in that support lifecycle, the clock runs out in a matter of days. If you're still running Windows 8, it's time to upgrade."

Click to expand...

Stardotstar,

In spite of some folks bashing you for your post, I for one appreciate your posting this info. I was not aware of it until reading your post.

I'm running Win8.0 on my laptop because when I upgraded to Win8.1 when it was first introduced, there were some problems with my particular laptop. I had to go back to Win8.0 to run normally again.

I'll try the upgrade to 8.1 again now which might be more successful because of the many updates that have been released since its introduction.

Click to expand...

I'm running 8.0 on my desktop. I upgraded to 8.1 when everyone else did, and like you I found a couple issues I didn't like, so I rolled back to 8.0 using an older C: image. When I try to update to 8.1 now, I get the highly descriptive 80017004 error (or something to that effect). I've searched the web and found and tried at least a half dozen "solutions" to that problem, but none of them have worked. Each one of them wastes an hour or two of my time, as it seems to want to download the entire 8.1 update each time after it fails to install. I have an OEM license, so the ISO route doesn't work either. I've always been up to date on all Windows updates when attempting the 8.1 upgrade (which MS prompts me for after reboot every time) so I have no clue why the 8.1 upgrade doesn't install properly.

So I've decided to keep 8.0, and forget about MS updates altogether. If I get some kind of virus that screws things up, I'll roll back to one of the many C: images I have stored to remove it.

noflashplease said:

Apple is remarkably dominant in the photographic community, at least among users who can afford the upfront hardware costs. A Windows PC is the inevitable choice if you can't afford a Mac.

Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with ability to afford. I can afford it and elect to not buy Mac, since there are a ton of things where I simply need Windows for. Windows on a Mac is possible, but then you're just stuck with too much custom hardware for a too high price tag. Take all that out of the picture and all you are left with is the beautiful 16:10 retina screen in the MBP's. But they only have a touchpad and a crazy keyboard; no trackpoint. And my skin doesn't work well with touchpads. I use a Lenovo Thinkpad as laptop and the trackpoint is the easiest and most comfortable way for me to steer the mouse cursor.

On the desktop there is no reason whatsoever to buy Apple hardware, so there it's a very easy choice if you don't want the Mac OS anyway.

Most of the Mac buyers in the so called photographic community just buy Apple because of group pressure and the idea that you belong when you buy an Apple. You can see that also in the cult-like following of the brand by some of it's users, something that Microsoft doesn't have.

Achieving that cult-like following and accompanying profit margins is a nice bonus for any brand; it's hardcore followers are just a plague everywhere there is a forum though...

dwalby said:

skyglider said:

...snip... I'll try the upgrade to 8.1 again now which might be more successful because of the many updates that have been released since its introduction.

Click to expand...

I'm running 8.0 on my desktop. I upgraded to 8.1 when everyone else did, and like you I found a couple issues I didn't like, so I rolled back to 8.0 using an older C: image. When I try to update to 8.1 now, I get the highly descriptive 80017004 error (or something to that effect). I've searched the web and found and tried at least a half dozen "solutions" to that problem, but none of them have worked. Each one of them wastes an hour or two of my time, as it seems to want to download the entire 8.1 update each time after it fails to install. I have an OEM license, so the ISO route doesn't work either. I've always been up to date on all Windows updates when attempting the 8.1 upgrade (which MS prompts me for after reboot every time) so I have no clue why the 8.1 upgrade doesn't install properly.

So I've decided to keep 8.0, and forget about MS updates altogether. If I get some kind of virus that screws things up, I'll roll back to one of the many C: images I have stored to remove it.

Click to expand...

I just tried upgrading from 8.0 to Win10 but Microsoft won't allow it. I'll have to upgrade to 8.1 and then to Win10. Crazy!

My upgrade from Win8.0 to Win8.1 on my laptop is in progress now. Will post the results.

Sky

Eh, I think you can get a Windows 10 ISO download with your Windows 8 key.

jcvjcvjcvjcv said:

Eh, I think you can get a Windows 10 ISO download with your Windows 8 key.

Click to expand...

I would like to have that option in my back pocket. Any "Microsoft" confirmation that a Windows 10 clean install can be activated with a Win8.0 product key? My copy of Win8.0 is a retail version, not an OEM version.

When I just tried to upgrade from Win8.0 to Win10, the upgrade did some checking and then popped a window that said my device was not eligible due to hardware or current version (paraphrasing).

Thanks,
Sky

Seems the ISO download program doesn't allow you to download a W10 iso on a W8 computer after all anyway. Not sure if it work without going 8.1 if you acquire a W10 iso via another route.

skyglider said:

jcvjcvjcvjcv said:

Eh, I think you can get a Windows 10 ISO download with your Windows 8 key.

Click to expand...

I would like to have that option in my back pocket. Any "Microsoft" confirmation that a Windows 10 clean install can be activated with a Win8.0 product key? My copy of Win8.0 is a retail version, not an OEM version.

When I just tried to upgrade from Win8.0 to Win10, the upgrade did some checking and then popped a window that said my device was not eligible due to hardware or current version (paraphrasing).

Thanks,
Sky

Click to expand...

stardotstar said:

skyglider said:

jcvjcvjcvjcv said:

Eh, I think you can get a Windows 10 ISO download with your Windows 8 key.

Click to expand...

I would like to have that option in my back pocket. Any "Microsoft" confirmation that a Windows 10 clean install can be activated with a Win8.0 product key? My copy of Win8.0 is a retail version, not an OEM version.

When I just tried to upgrade from Win8.0 to Win10, the upgrade did some checking and then popped a window that said my device was not eligible due to hardware or current version (paraphrasing).

Thanks,
Sky

Click to expand...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56947783

Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. I'll read all of it this evening. Busy with "Honey do's" right now .

Sky

Austinian said:

Seems to me the new thing about Windows 10 is the deep divide between those who like it and those who don't; I've been surprised by the number and intensity of both.

Click to expand...

My sense is that a big part of Windows 10 hate revolves around Microsoft's upgrade shenanigans. I don't hate Windows 10 per se, and if I was buying a new computer today it would doubtless be my choice. But my current Windows 7 system runs just fine, is stable, and does everything I want. Nobody has been able to point to any new capabilities in Windows 10 that I feel I need. So for now I would like to stick with what I've got, thank you very much.

But Microsoft has been trying to strong-arm Windows 10 onto my system. What I really hate is the fact that they've tried twice (unsuccessfully, luckily) to upgrade my system to Windows 10 without asking me or giving any indication that it was going to be done.

skyglider said:

stardotstar said:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56947783

Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. I'll read all of it this evening. Busy with "Honey do's" right now .

Click to expand...

Read the thread the link points to. The "supposed" to be able to use a Win8.0 product key to activate a clean install of Win10, 1511 TH2 may not work according to a post I read on a different website:

"I recently replaced my MB and was fully expecting my Win 10 to become non-genuine. So contacted the support(on phone) and after about 30 mins of explaining around, the support girl asks for my (new)motherboard model number and declares that as Intel as not released drivers for Windows 10 for my MB they cant help. I was like WTF."

So it appears that one must insure that a motherboard with an Intel CPU has Intel released drivers for Win10 to be able to activate Win10 via a clean install. Something to insure when buying a new motherboard. In my case, my old motherboard in my laptop definitely won't be getting Intel released drivers for Win10 so doing a clean install using a Win10, 1511 TH2 iso upgrade probably can't be activated. Guess my only upgrade route is via upgrading to 8.1 and then upgrading to 10.

REGARDING THE STATUS OF MY WIN 8.1 UPGRADE:

I did the upgrade from Win8.0 to Win8.1.

At the end of the upgrade Win8.1 said it couldn't find a file named "logiLDA.dll" in system32. I closed that window, did a shutdown and powered up. Win8.1 again said it couldn't find the logiLDA.dll file so I tried to transfer it from my Win7 PC using homegroup. Homegroup wouldn't work. I had to un-join my laptop (that had the Win8.1 upgrade) from Homegroup and join Homegroup again and then Homegroup started to work again. Copied the logiLDA.dll file to system32, shutdown, powered up and now Win8.1 boots all the way up without any popups.

Found that my wireless connections is extremely slow and youtube playback constantly pauses. Now I remember that's one of the problems I had before when I first upgraded to 8.1 soon after its release. My original wireless driver that worked in Win8.0 won't install in Win8.1. That's why I had to go back to 8.0.

Since my laptop is now running Win8.1 Pro, I'm going to try to upgrade to Win10 Pro. If the wireless problem is fixed, fine. If it's still slow then I'll have to go back to Win8.0 and run without any Windows updates. Will have to rely on my anti-virus and malwarebytes from then on.

Sky

Sean Nelson said:

Austinian said:

Seems to me the new thing about Windows 10 is the deep divide between those who like it and those who don't; I've been surprised by the number and intensity of both.

Click to expand...

My sense is that a big part of Windows 10 hate revolves around Microsoft's upgrade shenanigans. I don't hate Windows 10 per se, and if I was buying a new computer today it would doubtless be my choice. But my current Windows 7 system runs just fine, is stable, and does everything I want. Nobody has been able to point to any new capabilities in Windows 10 that I feel I need. So for now I would like to stick with what I've got, thank you very much.

Click to expand...

Many people don't need Windows 10 now. But some of us who play graphically-demanding games at very high resolutions really do need the faster performance DirectX 12 should provide; my poor GTX 970s are working so hard, even in Fallout 4 I can hear 'em panting. :-D

And, as I've said before, I just like shiny new OS toys. ;-)

Sean Nelson said:

But Microsoft has been trying to strong-arm Windows 10 onto my system. What I really hate is the fact that they've tried twice (unsuccessfully, luckily) to upgrade my system to Windows 10 without asking me or giving any indication that it was going to be done.

Click to expand...

Understandably so; no one likes to be dragooned into anything.

Possibly an even bigger fuss has been made over the privacy issues, but for me, the only real Windows 10 complaint I have so far is the lack of information about individual updates. Nothing has gone wrong in 10 so far, but I'd still like to know.

I very seldom rejected updates in the Windows 7 days, but I did find it interesting and educational to see just what sort of issues and problems were being addressed.

Austinian said:

Sean Nelson said:

Austinian said:

Seems to me the new thing about Windows 10 is the deep divide between those who like it and those who don't; I've been surprised by the number and intensity of both.

Click to expand...

My sense is that a big part of Windows 10 hate revolves around Microsoft's upgrade shenanigans. I don't hate Windows 10 per se, and if I was buying a new computer today it would doubtless be my choice. But my current Windows 7 system runs just fine, is stable, and does everything I want. Nobody has been able to point to any new capabilities in Windows 10 that I feel I need. So for now I would like to stick with what I've got, thank you very much.

Click to expand...

Many people don't need Windows 10 now. But some of us who play graphically-demanding games at very high resolutions really do need the faster performance DirectX 12 should provide; my poor GTX 970s are working so hard, even in Fallout 4 I can hear 'em panting. :-D

Click to expand...

Well, sure. If Windows 10 has some capability that you want or need, then it's a no brainer to upgrade. But those of us who don't want to upgrade don't necessarily hate Windows 10. There are plenty of new cars out there that I'm not going to buy, even though many of them have some pretty cool capabilities. But that doesn't mean I hate those cars, it just means that for now I'm happy with the one I have.

jcvjcvjcvjcv said:

Did you actually read it?

They consider 8.1 a service pack, and they're pretty much right on that one.

With any Windows version, updates would end if you did not install the service packs.

So a lot of smoke about nothing.

Click to expand...

+ 1

Regards Patsym

Sean Nelson said:

Well, sure. If Windows 10 has some capability that you want or need, then it's a no brainer to upgrade. But those of us who don't want to upgrade don't necessarily hate Windows 10. There are plenty of new cars out there that I'm not going to buy, even though many of them have some pretty cool capabilities. But that doesn't mean I hate those cars, it just means that for now I'm happy with the one I have.

Click to expand...

But what if they were given for free. Whould you stil do not get one?

Sean Nelson said:

But Microsoft has been trying to strong-arm Windows 10 onto my system. What I really hate is the fact that they've tried twice (unsuccessfully, luckily) to upgrade my system to Windows 10 without asking me or giving any indication that it was going to be done.

Click to expand...

This bothers me less than my fear that Windows 10 is designed/intended to strong-arm us into accepting a lot of other new stuff. GWX, mandatory updates... there's a pattern here.

Sagittarius said:

Sean Nelson said:

Well, sure. If Windows 10 has some capability that you want or need, then it's a no brainer to upgrade. But those of us who don't want to upgrade don't necessarily hate Windows 10. There are plenty of new cars out there that I'm not going to buy, even though many of them have some pretty cool capabilities. But that doesn't mean I hate those cars, it just means that for now I'm happy with the one I have.

Click to expand...

But what if they were given for free. Whould you stil do not get one?

Click to expand...

If I could get a car for free I'd sure go for it, because the value of a car is so high. But even then, depending on what car it was, I might still just sell it and laugh all the way to the bank.

As far as the OS goes, $100-200 for a license isn't a big deal to me. I understand that it might be for some people, but to me that kind of expense once every 5 years or so it just isn't worth it to uproot my system and go through the hassle of an upgrade.

And before someone tries to tell me that the upgrade is easy, I should explain that I have a very disciplined approach to my computer and an upgrade would require me to research and test my backup strategies (i.e., do image and file-based backups and then restore then to virgin drives to make sure they actually work).

And I wouldn't do a simple upgrade, I'd actually install Windows 10 to a brand new disk so that I could start fresh without all the fragmentation that's built up on my Windows 7 system over the years. And that in turn would require me to re-install a huge amount of software, and then I'd have to do a lot of tweaking to get everything back to the way I like it (after a lot of experimentation with the new UI to understand what would work best).

So to me the upgrade would be a fairly substantial project, one that I'd only care to undertake if I expected to see some sort of benefit for how I use my system. So far there isn't anything that I've seen or heard about that gives me the necessary motivation to go ahead and do it.

Notice that I've said nothing critical of Windows 10 itself. I have nothing against the new OS, I just prefer not to deal with it right now.

malch said:

Sean Nelson said:

But Microsoft has been trying to strong-arm Windows 10 onto my system. What I really hate is the fact that they've tried twice (unsuccessfully, luckily) to upgrade my system to Windows 10 without asking me or giving any indication that it was going to be done.

Click to expand...

This bothers me less than my fear that Windows 10 is designed/intended to strong-arm us into accepting a lot of other new stuff. GWX, mandatory updates... there's a pattern here.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting way to put it, and perhaps that's indeed the case.

Individual Windows users may have to make a binary choice between the permanent stasis of Windows 7/8/8.1 and a future of changes with Windows 10.