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Regarding the A6000 - have sony fixed the backlight sensor lines?

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BaconHill

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I've narrowed down my camera choice to either a Panasonic FZ 1000 or the Sony A6000 with the Sony 18-200 lens.

My issues:

The FZ1000 is a FIVE year old camera and is still £570 - for a five year old thing! Nasty!!

The Sony A600? I've seen some very bad sensor lines on images with back lighting.

Hence my question - has Sony fixed the problem or is it still there..?

(To be honest, it smells like that Fuji X10 orb fiasco of three years ago!)

Edit - I've also been to some stores with reviews (websites)... some people have had focus issue with the FW 2.00.. one guy said that with the old FW he had 90% focus success, after updating he had around 60% images in focus.

Does this camera have issues.. is it a "keeper" or a "turkey"... I'm turning away from it at the moment... and turning away from the FZ1000, £570 for a 1/2 decade old camera?

There's always something, isn't there... always something wrong.
 
Last edited:
Higgins2002 said:
FZ1000 was released in 2014 not Five years ago.
Click to expand...
I see my error.. SnapSort has it listed as 2010

"Brand Panasonic
Lowest price £458.99 below average
Announced June 2010 below average"

but it's "Announced" date rather than "on sale" date.

Still - announced 2010 means what? They took 4 more years to make it after announcing it?

And

"Date first available at Amazon.com: June 11, 2014"

So, yes, it seems you are right - that make it VERY much more palatable to pay £570 for it.

Thanks for the correction!
 
About the A6000 sensor lines

I understand the issue occurs with very fast lenses like f/1.2.

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

Since you are thinking of getting an Sony 18-200 (very nice by the way) the lens ranges from f/3.5 to f/5.6 so you would not be encountering that situation that cause the banding.
 
BaconHill said:
I've narrowed down my camera choice to either a Panasonic FZ 1000 or the Sony A6000 with the Sony 18-200 lens.

My issues:

The FZ1000 is a FIVE year old camera and is still £570 - for a five year old thing! Nasty!!

The Sony A600? I've seen some very bad sensor lines on images with back lighting.

Hence my question - has Sony fixed the problem or is it still there..?

(To be honest, it smells like that Fuji X10 orb fiasco of three years ago!)

Edit - I've also been to some stores with reviews (websites)... some people have had focus issue with the FW 2.00.. one guy said that with the old FW he had 90% focus success, after updating he had around 60% images in focus.

Does this camera have issues.. is it a "keeper" or a "turkey"... I'm turning away from it at the moment... and turning away from the FZ1000, £570 for a 1/2 decade old camera?

There's always something, isn't there... always something wrong.
Click to expand...
By "sensor lines" I'm assuming you mean "banding" or more specifically, "noise banding" that occurs in the shadows of overly processed, high-contrast images such as ones that are back lit? Then, no. It's not fixed as this is sensor dependent. However, it's also not a real issue, IMO. In all of the threads I've seen about this the banding shows up after the poster has lifted the shadows by more than reasonable levels, like 5EV, before the banding appears. Since this doesn't represent how the vast majority of users process their images, the "problem" is largely non-existent.

In fact, in my attempts to replicate the issue has proven to me that the chances of me encountering it in regular shooting is extremely small. After 20k+ images w/ the a6000 since May of this year, I've yet to see it in any image other than testing to try and find it. The simple reality is that this will not be an issue in your images unless you like to heavily lift shadows. In which case, there's ways around it such as bracketing, exposing more for the shadows than the highlights or just not lifting the shadows beyond reason.

Lastly, if you're looking for the perfect, problem-free camera then I wish you luck. It doesn't exist. Every camera that I've looked into had some little problem that scared me away initially, only to find out that said issue was more internet hype than reality.
 
OpticsEngineer said:
About the A6000 sensor lines

I understand the issue occurs with very fast lenses like f/1.2.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54549511

Since you are thinking of getting an Sony 18-200 (very nice by the way) the lens ranges from f/3.5 to f/5.6 so you would not be encountering that situation that cause the banding.
Click to expand...
That's interesting to know, and helpful...

Well... sort of helpful - I was wavering to the FZ1000 but now it seems like the A6000 is good with that lens.

I don't think a successor to the FZ1000 is coming soon, that one is too "close to now".

I don't think a successor to the A6000 will be here before August 2016, and it'll be expensive (so it won't knock the A6000 price much).

Ahhh... decisions, decisions.
 
rlyons said:
rlyons said:
I've narrowed down my camera choice to either a Panasonic FZ 1000 or the Sony A6000 with the Sony 18-200 lens.

My issues:

The FZ1000 is a FIVE year old camera and is still £570 - for a five year old thing! Nasty!!

The Sony A600? I've seen some very bad sensor lines on images with back lighting.

Hence my question - has Sony fixed the problem or is it still there..?

(To be honest, it smells like that Fuji X10 orb fiasco of three years ago!)

Edit - I've also been to some stores with reviews (websites)... some people have had focus issue with the FW 2.00.. one guy said that with the old FW he had 90% focus success, after updating he had around 60% images in focus.

Does this camera have issues.. is it a "keeper" or a "turkey"... I'm turning away from it at the moment... and turning away from the FZ1000, £570 for a 1/2 decade old camera?

There's always something, isn't there... always something wrong.
Click to expand...
By "sensor lines" I'm assuming you mean "banding" or more specifically, "noise banding" that occurs in the shadows of overly processed, high-contrast images such as ones that are back lit? Then, no. It's not fixed as this is sensor dependent. However, it's also not a real issue, IMO. In all of the threads I've seen about this the banding shows up after the poster has lifted the shadows by more than reasonable levels, like 5EV, before the banding appears. Since this doesn't represent how the vast majority of users process their images, the "problem" is largely non-existent.
Click to expand...
I noticed that in the images, the shadows where the bands were are very much "lifted".

in a sense, it's like sharpening a jpg then complaining about the maze-like jpg block jaggies that appear - if they had left it alone then the artefact would not be there.

rlyons said:
In fact, in my attempts to replicate the issue has proven to me that the chances of me encountering it in regular shooting is extremely small. After 20k+ images w/ the a6000 since May of this year, I've yet to see it in any image other than testing to try and find it.
Click to expand...
So... you don;t see them in normal use but can make them appear in the appropriate images with heavy shadow lifting.

OK, point taken, thanks.
rlyons said:
The simple reality is that this will not be an issue in your images unless you like to heavily lift shadows. In which case, there's ways around it such as bracketing, exposing more for the shadows than the highlights or just not lifting the shadows beyond reason.

Lastly, if you're looking for the perfect, problem-free camera then I wish you luck. It doesn't exist. Every camera that I've looked into had some little problem that scared me away initially, only to find out that said issue was more internet hype than reality.
Click to expand...
Hell, yes!

But all I have is reviews and comments to go on - not in a position to test or face-to-face discuss.

And.. no one wants to drop £570 to £850 (FZ1000 - A600 + 18-200 lens) to find that you've bought a lemon.

I'm not rich, I have the ££ for the purchase but if HAS to be the right purchase... I don't have the cash to frip away. I'd rather not buy at all than buy a lemon I'm stuck with.

NOT saying either camera is a lemon... but while you do have to take the bad comments and bad reviews with a pinch of salt and scepticism... you also have to take the "WOW it's fantastic" reviews with that same pinch of salt..
 
rlyons said:
rlyons said:
I've narrowed down my camera choice to either a Panasonic FZ 1000 or the Sony A6000 with the Sony 18-200 lens.

My issues:

The FZ1000 is a FIVE year old camera and is still £570 - for a five year old thing! Nasty!!

The Sony A600? I've seen some very bad sensor lines on images with back lighting.

Hence my question - has Sony fixed the problem or is it still there..?

(To be honest, it smells like that Fuji X10 orb fiasco of three years ago!)

Edit - I've also been to some stores with reviews (websites)... some people have had focus issue with the FW 2.00.. one guy said that with the old FW he had 90% focus success, after updating he had around 60% images in focus.

Does this camera have issues.. is it a "keeper" or a "turkey"... I'm turning away from it at the moment... and turning away from the FZ1000, £570 for a 1/2 decade old camera?

There's always something, isn't there... always something wrong.
Click to expand...
By "sensor lines" I'm assuming you mean "banding" or more specifically, "noise banding" that occurs in the shadows of overly processed, high-contrast images such as ones that are back lit? Then, no. It's not fixed as this is sensor dependent. However, it's also not a real issue, IMO. In all of the threads I've seen about this the banding shows up after the poster has lifted the shadows by more than reasonable levels, like 5EV, before the banding appears. Since this doesn't represent how the vast majority of users process their images, the "problem" is largely non-existent.

In fact, in my attempts to replicate the issue has proven to me that the chances of me encountering it in regular shooting is extremely small. After 20k+ images w/ the a6000 since May of this year, I've yet to see it in any image other than testing to try and find it. The simple reality is that this will not be an issue in your images unless you like to heavily lift shadows. In which case, there's ways around it such as bracketing, exposing more for the shadows than the highlights or just not lifting the shadows beyond reason.

Lastly, if you're looking for the perfect, problem-free camera then I wish you luck. It doesn't exist. Every camera that I've looked into had some little problem that scared me away initially, only to find out that said issue was more internet hype than reality.
Click to expand...
As fas as I know, some time ago I read about a fix in post that involved removing those lines and interpolating the pixel values (not a very big issue with 4000 horizontal lines with around a few hundred affected). Deinterlacing did the trick, but it removes more lines than necessary.
 
rlyons said:
rlyons said:
I've narrowed down my camera choice to either a Panasonic FZ 1000 or the Sony A6000 with the Sony 18-200 lens.

My issues:

The FZ1000 is a FIVE year old camera and is still £570 - for a five year old thing! Nasty!!

The Sony A600? I've seen some very bad sensor lines on images with back lighting.

Hence my question - has Sony fixed the problem or is it still there..?

(To be honest, it smells like that Fuji X10 orb fiasco of three years ago!)

Edit - I've also been to some stores with reviews (websites)... some people have had focus issue with the FW 2.00.. one guy said that with the old FW he had 90% focus success, after updating he had around 60% images in focus.

Does this camera have issues.. is it a "keeper" or a "turkey"... I'm turning away from it at the moment... and turning away from the FZ1000, £570 for a 1/2 decade old camera?

There's always something, isn't there... always something wrong.
Click to expand...
By "sensor lines" I'm assuming you mean "banding" or more specifically, "noise banding" that occurs in the shadows of overly processed, high-contrast images such as ones that are back lit? Then, no. It's not fixed as this is sensor dependent. However, it's also not a real issue, IMO. In all of the threads I've seen about this the banding shows up after the poster has lifted the shadows by more than reasonable levels, like 5EV, before the banding appears. Since this doesn't represent how the vast majority of users process their images, the "problem" is largely non-existent.
Click to expand...
I did some research here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53727264

Shows them in everyday images, without the +5ev boosting.

This isn't good by any means; it might be excusable on a £100 pinhead sensor camera but on a camera supposedly this good, it's inexcusable.

It's akin to the Fuji x10 orb problem from a few years ago, or the Nikon D7000 that spewed oil all over the lens when you flipped the mirror up!

I could accept them if it were only just "high processing brings them out"... but not in just everydau photos!
rlyons said:
In fact, in my attempts to replicate the issue has proven to me that the chances of me encountering it in regular shooting is extremely small. After 20k+ images w/ the a6000 since May of this year, I've yet to see it in any image other than testing to try and find it. The simple reality is that this will not be an issue in your images unless you like to heavily lift shadows. In which case, there's ways around it such as bracketing, exposing more for the shadows than the highlights or just not lifting the shadows beyond reason.

Lastly, if you're looking for the perfect, problem-free camera then I wish you luck. It doesn't exist. Every camera that I've looked into had some little problem that scared me away initially, only to find out that said issue was more internet hype than reality.
Click to expand...
 
i bought a6000 for three weeks and it's just perfect,i had a fuji xt10 and it had so issues
waxy skin tone problem,very poor battery life,lens and body prices
but a6000 is the best camera for the price,i bought it with sigma 30mm f 2.8 dx and it's superb
if you want faster lens you can go for f 1.8 lenses but believe me you never need to go lower than f 1.8,i had canon,nikon,fuji but sony is just so much better with extra feature
specially Eye AF i really like it
 
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