Olympus EM10 Mk ll

Well, not entirely true anyway. An oversimplification at the very least.

Battery capacity is rated in mah or milliampere-hours. Your typical camera battery may be rated for 1000mah. That means it will supply 1 Amp of current for one hour, 0.5 Amps for 2 hours, 0.25 Amps for 4 hours, etc. This is considered the load on the battery. Since the load is dependent on the design of the various components in the camera and the usage of the components, battery capacity can vary dramatically. That's why there is a standard for measuring battery consumption, created by an organization called CIPA . We all know that right? The standard is based on measurements designed to simulate the usage by an average person. Are they realistic? No. But the standard is designed for comparison of one camera to another. It is not an absolute measurement of battery life in either worst case or best case scenarios.

Taking a shot as defined by CIPA involves certain operations. There may be power zooms, flashes and other operations involved in taking a shot. For example, I know that the Olympus image stabilization is a great power hog.

So unless you ask how one uses the camera typically, it's not clear whether their capacity results are valid or not.

Simply stating your battery should typically last for 2.5 hours is clearly erroneous. The number of shots can be used as an indicator if the usage is of an average type. I would expect or assume such usage from a novice which the OP apparently is.
Of course on time isn't perfect either, but it's better when comparing your battery life vs expected, than using the number of shots. For mirrorless cameras that is (for dSLRs number of shots is probably better than on time). And as you state, CIPA is designed to compare different cameras' battery lives, not as a number for users to expect to always get.

Mirrorless cameras continuously uses battery juice, whether you take one photo or 12 or 70 in one minute. Check out these test results for two cameras, same setup with only difference is the frequency of photos taken (thanks to Airmel for doing the tests!): E-M1, E-M10. As long as the cameras don't go to into sleep mode, the time on is pretty darn consistent. And if sleep time isn't counted as "on time" (as it's asleep, not really on), then the on time is pretty consistent across the whole test. Unlike the number of photos.

Sure, if a user uses different settings than the above test (or CIPA), then sure the time on will be different. But it will be still far more comparable than number of photos.
Agreed, CIPA's metric is pretty useless at this point, even as a relative comparison tool... If their usage case only accounts for an average usage case then that average scenario is very very narrow as defined by their current test protocol... Truth is this was designed for a different kind of camera, one that didn't necessarily need to or benefit from being switched off throughout the day, it could use an overhaul or a second/parallel test to really describe battery life on mirrorless.
 
The on time comments are interesting. Does my camera tell me the on time anywhere.

Another thing I noticed was the battery warning level.
It shows full for ages then drops to two thirds. When it does this I only get another twenty shots before it dies.

The camera shop is a highly respected business and they seem to think there may be something wrong so will take it back to them anyway.

Thanks for everyone's input.
Panasonic lists an on time (they call it "Recording time") in the manuals for at least all their current m43 cameras, right under the CIPA shots number. Heck, most of the manuals list a couple different lenses results of both the CIPA photos and on time, and EVF vs LCD (if the camera has both).

Exanple: page 28, GX7 Advanced owner manual

This shows the EVF on the GX7 uses more power than the LCD, and the 20mm 1.7 lens uses more power than the kit 14-42mm II. (EVF vs LCD varies from camera to camera.) The CIPA number you always see for this camera (350) is from the LCD + 14-42mm.
This shows the EVF on the GX7 uses more power than the LCD, and the 20mm 1.7 lens uses more power than the kit 14-42mm II. (EVF vs LCD varies from camera to camera.) The CIPA number you always see for this camera (350) is from the LCD + 14-42mm.

I'm not sure if Oly lists their time results. Also, panny lists the movie record times, another time based number to use to gauge battery life. Of course, if you use your camera with different settings and different lenses and different tempertures than the CIPA test conditions, YMMV.
It's somewhat useful, but Recording Time is more like a worst case scenario unless you do record a lot of video. I'm sure the GX7 will last somewhat longer on a charge if it's just idle or even if it's just doing constant time lapse photography... Video involves a lot more processing and a lot more I/O, not to mention heat.
 
LCD backlight set to 8sec
Sleep 1min
Auto power off set to 4h
Evf autodetect set to off

Image stabizer set to on in single focus and continuous. Set to off until shutter button is fully depressed.

All day long power! :D

Be advised this is for em5.2

Cons:
Viewfinder unavailable for 1-2 seconds as camera wakes up. You do have ability to shoot in .3 seconds or so...

Except for the slow wakeup time this feels very old school slr. If anyone has other settings I would love to hear them.
 
LCD backlight set to 8sec
Sleep 1min
Auto power off set to 4h
Evf autodetect set to off

Image stabizer set to on in single focus and continuous. Set to off until shutter button is fully depressed.

All day long power! :D

Be advised this is for em5.2

Cons:
Viewfinder unavailable for 1-2 seconds as camera wakes up. You do have ability to shoot in .3 seconds or so...

Except for the slow wakeup time this feels very old school slr. If anyone has other settings I would love to hear them.
Thanks will try these settings.
Ultimately I now realise time is more important than number of shots but still think 140 is low when I never use sleep mode haven't used flash and not shot any video.
 
Panasonic lists an on time (they call it "Recording time") in the manuals for at least all their current m43 cameras, right under the CIPA shots number. Heck, most of the manuals list a couple different lenses results of both the CIPA photos and on time, and EVF vs LCD (if the camera has both).

Exanple: page 28, GX7 Advanced owner manual

This shows the EVF on the GX7 uses more power than the LCD, and the 20mm 1.7 lens uses more power than the kit 14-42mm II. (EVF vs LCD varies from camera to camera.) The CIPA number you always see for this camera (350) is from the LCD + 14-42mm.
This shows the EVF on the GX7 uses more power than the LCD, and the 20mm 1.7 lens uses more power than the kit 14-42mm II. (EVF vs LCD varies from camera to camera.) The CIPA number you always see for this camera (350) is from the LCD + 14-42mm.

I'm not sure if Oly lists their time results. Also, panny lists the movie record times, another time based number to use to gauge battery life. Of course, if you use your camera with different settings and different lenses and different tempertures than the CIPA test conditions, YMMV.
It's somewhat useful, but Recording Time is more like a worst case scenario unless you do record a lot of video. I'm sure the GX7 will last somewhat longer on a charge if it's just idle or even if it's just doing constant time lapse photography... Video involves a lot more processing and a lot more I/O, not to mention heat.
This "Recording time" is NOT the video time. Video time is listed on a different page (pg 30, called "Record time" and "Actual record time"). The time listed in the above table is the time the camera is on while doing the CIPA test photos.

Don't ask me why panny calls this time to do CIPA testing "Record time", but again is NOT in any way related to video.
 
To follow up, here is the pg 30 video record times from same manual of the GX7:

[ATTACH alt="I think "Actual recordable time" is the time in actual video, while "Recordable time" includes time the camera is on but not recording. "]1117522[/ATTACH]
I think "Actual recordable time" is the time in actual video, while "Recordable time" includes time the camera is on but not recording.

And yes, the video time is less than the stills time.
 

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Panasonic lists an on time (they call it "Recording time") in the manuals for at least all their current m43 cameras, right under the CIPA shots number. Heck, most of the manuals list a couple different lenses results of both the CIPA photos and on time, and EVF vs LCD (if the camera has both).

Exanple: page 28, GX7 Advanced owner manual

This shows the EVF on the GX7 uses more power than the LCD, and the 20mm 1.7 lens uses more power than the kit 14-42mm II. (EVF vs LCD varies from camera to camera.) The CIPA number you always see for this camera (350) is from the LCD + 14-42mm.
This shows the EVF on the GX7 uses more power than the LCD, and the 20mm 1.7 lens uses more power than the kit 14-42mm II. (EVF vs LCD varies from camera to camera.) The CIPA number you always see for this camera (350) is from the LCD + 14-42mm.

I'm not sure if Oly lists their time results. Also, panny lists the movie record times, another time based number to use to gauge battery life. Of course, if you use your camera with different settings and different lenses and different tempertures than the CIPA test conditions, YMMV.
It's somewhat useful, but Recording Time is more like a worst case scenario unless you do record a lot of video. I'm sure the GX7 will last somewhat longer on a charge if it's just idle or even if it's just doing constant time lapse photography... Video involves a lot more processing and a lot more I/O, not to mention heat.
This "Recording time" is NOT the video time. Video time is listed on a different page (pg 30, called "Record time" and "Actual record time"). The time listed in the above table is the time the camera is on while doing the CIPA test photos.

Don't ask me why panny calls this time to do CIPA testing "Record time", but again is NOT in any way related to video.
That's awful confusing on their part, but quite useful if so. I'd only glanced at the numbers, taking a second look I see they're closer to 3 hrs than 2 with the LCD, which would jive with reality... Does the manual actually describe Recording Time anywhere tho or are we left to assume this is what they mean?
 
Ah I see, having both pages makes it somewhat more obvious, still terribly labeled on their part.
 
IS is one of the best features of the camera. Turn it off?
You can switch it so that instead of being constantly on (you can hear it whirring) it can come on only when you press the shutter.
 
Most mirrorless cameras have worse battery life than DSLRs as they have to constantly power an LCD and/or an EVF.

As a matter of habit, I always carry an extra battery.

I turn the cam off between shots, if practical. I don't have the E-M10 II but there might be a way to turn off the LCD and only use the EVF.
 
That's awful confusing on their part, but quite useful if so. I'd only glanced at the numbers, taking a second look I see they're closer to 3 hrs than 2 with the LCD, which would jive with reality... Does the manual actually describe Recording Time anywhere tho or are we left to assume this is what they mean?
I agree it's terrible labeling. That separate video times specs page cinches it, but a couple other hints, too. At the top of the page it says "Recording still pictures (with [lcd/evf])", and the time in minutes is exactly half the number of photos. The CIPA test standard says to take a photo every 30 seconds, or twice a minute, and even turning it off/on is covered because you have to wait 30 seconds after turning on before taking a photo.

I hadn't thought about it before, but this means we can quickly get a rough estimate of battery on time just by dividing the CIPA photos number by two to get an on time in minutes.
 
That's awful confusing on their part, but quite useful if so. I'd only glanced at the numbers, taking a second look I see they're closer to 3 hrs than 2 with the LCD, which would jive with reality... Does the manual actually describe Recording Time anywhere tho or are we left to assume this is what they mean?
I agree it's terrible labeling. That separate video times specs page cinches it, but a couple other hints, too. At the top of the page it says "Recording still pictures (with [lcd/evf])", and the time in minutes is exactly half the number of photos. The CIPA test standard says to take a photo every 30 seconds, or twice a minute, and even turning it off/on is covered because you have to wait 30 seconds after turning on before taking a photo.

I hadn't thought about it before, but this means we can quickly get a rough estimate of battery on time just by dividing the CIPA photos number by two to get an on time in minutes.
Huh, that is true, hadn't thought of it myself... The whole community would probably benefit from spreading that little fact around! Although the figures are still a poor relative comparison in some cases. From what I remember they test cameras with a built in flash by forcing it on, so those without one will inevitably pull ahead, not sure what they do in the case of bundled clip on flashes.
 
IS is one of the best features of the camera. Turn it off?
You can switch it so that instead of being constantly on (you can hear it whirring) it can come on only when you press the shutter.
How do you do that setting on the camera? Thanks
See page 90 in your user's manual
p.90 in my manual is for Bracketing

I have found this earlier in manual but it does not refer to when shutter is depressed



8c6924feb5084fbc9b6f591aa026cba0.jpg.png
 
IS is one of the best features of the camera. Turn it off?
You can switch it so that instead of being constantly on (you can hear it whirring) it can come on only when you press the shutter.
How do you do that setting on the camera? Thanks
See page 90 in your user's manual
p.90 in my manual is for Bracketing

I have found this earlier in manual but it does not refer to when shutter is depressed

8c6924feb5084fbc9b6f591aa026cba0.jpg.png
I found the controls for the image stabilization on page 90 of the online manual at the Olympus site. Not sure about the discrepancy. Look in the custom menu under "release".

As an aside, if you have not done so, I would encourage you to take an hour or so and simply go through all the menu options, it will save you (and us) a lot of time.
 
IS is one of the best features of the camera. Turn it off?
You can switch it so that instead of being constantly on (you can hear it whirring) it can come on only when you press the shutter.
How do you do that setting on the camera? Thanks
See page 90 in your user's manual
p.90 in my manual is for Bracketing

I have found this earlier in manual but it does not refer to when shutter is depressed

8c6924feb5084fbc9b6f591aa026cba0.jpg.png
The setting you're looking for is in menu C, and called "Half Way RIs With IS" on the E-M5ii. If it's set to "On", half-pressing the shutter will engage image stabilization. If it's set to "Off", image stabilization is only engaged during the actual exposure.

I'm not sure how much that helps battery life though, since the sensor must be suspended in a magnetic field while stationary, too, right? I guess switching off the camera when you don't actively use it for a few minutes is much better. And I like the stabilized viewfinder image, too, personally.

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I hadn't thought about it before, but this means we can quickly get a rough estimate of battery on time just by dividing the CIPA photos number by two to get an on time in minutes.
Huh, that is true, hadn't thought of it myself... The whole community would probably benefit from spreading that little fact around! Although the figures are still a poor relative comparison in some cases. From what I remember they test cameras with a built in flash by forcing it on, so those without one will inevitably pull ahead, not sure what they do in the case of bundled clip on flashes.
Yeah, in CIPA, the built in flash is flashed every other photo (5 out of 10 photos). That's rarely how a flash is used: more often never, or sometimes always. Add then some built in flashes are much more powerful than others (example: GH4's GN 17m@200ISO vs GX7's 7m@200). Then add that different lens result in different numbers (like the 20mm/1.7 being over 8% less photos/time than the 14-42mm II in the GX7's pages I posted). And then the GH4 tests different lens than the GX7 (12-35/2.8 and 14-140mm II)! It makes sense to test with lenses that are most often used with (and kit is probably the most used), but that makes it harder to really compare. And I'll bet my 100-300 uses more power than any of these four lenses (at least I get noticeably less on time when I use it, but then again I normally use it with different settings than most of my other lenses).

And then what each user users? AF vs MF, AF-S vs AF-C, jpg vs RAW vs RAW+jpg, wifi on/off, OIS / IBIS / no IS, lens A vs lens B, well lit vs low light, normal temperatures vs freezing cold vs ultra hot, etc. Oh yeah, impossible for a perfect comparison photo count or time.

But CIPA photo count is probably as good as we can get for dSLRs. OTOH, that photo count is terrible for mirrorless cameras (or dSLR in liveview, or P&S). The on-time-while-CIPA-testing (photos/2 = minutes) should be as good for mirrorless as CIPA photos is for dSLRs. IOW poor, but good enough for a rough estimate.
 
I hadn't thought about it before, but this means we can quickly get a rough estimate of battery on time just by dividing the CIPA photos number by two to get an on time in minutes.
Huh, that is true, hadn't thought of it myself... The whole community would probably benefit from spreading that little fact around! Although the figures are still a poor relative comparison in some cases. From what I remember they test cameras with a built in flash by forcing it on, so those without one will inevitably pull ahead, not sure what they do in the case of bundled clip on flashes.
Yeah, in CIPA, the built in flash is flashed every other photo (5 out of 10 photos). That's rarely how a flash is used: more often never, or sometimes always. Add then some built in flashes are much more powerful than others (example: GH4's GN 17m@200ISO vs GX7's 7m@200). Then add that different lens result in different numbers (like the 20mm/1.7 being over 8% less photos/time than the 14-42mm II in the GX7's pages I posted). And then the GH4 tests different lens than the GX7 (12-35/2.8 and 14-140mm II)! It makes sense to test with lenses that are most often used with (and kit is probably the most used), but that makes it harder to really compare. And I'll bet my 100-300 uses more power than any of these four lenses (at least I get noticeably less on time when I use it, but then again I normally use it with different settings than most of my other lenses).

And then what each user users? AF vs MF, AF-S vs AF-C, jpg vs RAW vs RAW+jpg, wifi on/off, OIS / IBIS / no IS, lens A vs lens B, well lit vs low light, normal temperatures vs freezing cold vs ultra hot, etc. Oh yeah, impossible for a perfect comparison photo count or time.

But CIPA photo count is probably as good as we can get for dSLRs. OTOH, that photo count is terrible for mirrorless cameras (or dSLR in liveview, or P&S). The on-time-while-CIPA-testing (photos/2 = minutes) should be as good for mirrorless as CIPA photos is for dSLRs. IOW poor, but good enough for a rough estimate.
Yeah, CIPA's #ofshots/2 is probably as good a down-the-middle average as any, though I still think the flash discrepancy makes it a poor relative comparison measure. Do they even state what lens they test with? Kit lens in most cases I'd guess but what about higher end bodies without a pre determined kit lens?

Still, the differences between most lenses are probably small, as are different settings, smaller than the difference between EVF vs LCD at least or flash vs no flash... And in many/most cases, at least within the same system, the bodies will probably be on relatively even footing with regards to lenses and settings used.

The GX8 testing better because it comes without a flash or the E-M10 II getting worse because it has a pop up just seems kinda off tho. Heck, GM1 vs GM5...

photos/2 needs to catch on tho ;)
 

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