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10D Jagged Edges

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Brian79

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Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%, Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing wrong? Thanks for your help.



Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 10D
Orientation - 1 (top left)
XResolution - 180
YResolution - 180
ResolutionUnit - 2 (inch)
YCbCrPositioning - 1 (center of pixel array)
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 8.0000
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 220
DateTimeOriginal - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
DateTimeDigitized - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
ComponentsConfiguration - 1 2 3 (YCbCr)
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/250 seconds
ApertureValue - F 8.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.0000
Flash - 24
FocalLength - 65 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 100
ColorSpace - 1 (sRGB)
ExifImageWidth - 2048
ExifImageHeight - 3072
InteroperabilityOffset - 1456
FocalPlaneXResolution - 3442.0168
FocalPlaneYResolution - 3443.9462
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - 2

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Off
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Auto + red-eye reduction
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - AI Focus
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Full Auto
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Easy shooting
White Balance - Auto
Image Type - IMG:EOS 10D JPEG
Firmware Version - Firmware Version 00.00
Image Number - 1676728
Owner Name -
Focal length of lens : 28-105(mm)





 
that's a whole lot of sharpening. i haven't seen any reason to push my pics past 125% with .05 radious. i wonder if your just using to much? maybe try also setting the threshold to 10 or less.

luck
 
This normaly occure when you resize to smaller image. Since the software has to re-sample the original image down to a smaller image and caused this jaggyness. What you see is normal.
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.



Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 10D
Orientation - 1 (top left)
XResolution - 180
YResolution - 180
ResolutionUnit - 2 (inch)
YCbCrPositioning - 1 (center of pixel array)
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 8.0000
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 220
DateTimeOriginal - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
DateTimeDigitized - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
ComponentsConfiguration - 1 2 3 (YCbCr)
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/250 seconds
ApertureValue - F 8.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.0000
Flash - 24
FocalLength - 65 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 100
ColorSpace - 1 (sRGB)
ExifImageWidth - 2048
ExifImageHeight - 3072
InteroperabilityOffset - 1456
FocalPlaneXResolution - 3442.0168
FocalPlaneYResolution - 3443.9462
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - 2

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Off
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Auto + red-eye reduction
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - AI Focus
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Full Auto
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Easy shooting
White Balance - Auto
Image Type - IMG:EOS 10D JPEG
Firmware Version - Firmware Version 00.00
Image Number - 1676728
Owner Name -
Focal length of lens : 28-105(mm)





Click to expand...
 
After close examination other than the first picture I see what you're saying. It's weird as it doesn't happen all over the places exception where the flower is as. Probably it's due too much USM.
K Lam said:
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.



Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 10D
Orientation - 1 (top left)
XResolution - 180
YResolution - 180
ResolutionUnit - 2 (inch)
YCbCrPositioning - 1 (center of pixel array)
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 8.0000
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 220
DateTimeOriginal - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
DateTimeDigitized - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
ComponentsConfiguration - 1 2 3 (YCbCr)
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/250 seconds
ApertureValue - F 8.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.0000
Flash - 24
FocalLength - 65 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 100
ColorSpace - 1 (sRGB)
ExifImageWidth - 2048
ExifImageHeight - 3072
InteroperabilityOffset - 1456
FocalPlaneXResolution - 3442.0168
FocalPlaneYResolution - 3443.9462
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - 2

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Off
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Auto + red-eye reduction
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - AI Focus
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Full Auto
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Easy shooting
White Balance - Auto
Image Type - IMG:EOS 10D JPEG
Firmware Version - Firmware Version 00.00
Image Number - 1676728
Owner Name -
Focal length of lens : 28-105(mm)





Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
It only seems to be in the "hot" red areas. I think it's a more insidious problem than oversharpening or downsizing.

Just what? I don't know.

Brendan
==========
Equipment list in profile -- where it BELONGS!
 
wmcdowell said:
that's a whole lot of sharpening. i haven't seen any reason to
push my pics past 125% with .05 radious. i wonder if your just
using to much? maybe try also setting the threshold to 10 or less.

luck
Click to expand...
Thanks. I thought that too, but why would they show up at all? The rest of the image is fine. Its just the reddish areas in some photos. You can still see it even with minimal sharpening. Most other photos are fine when I use that much sharpening.
 
The top photo looks like too much USM has been applied, at least for web viewing. Might be OK for printing though. How does it look in a print? 300 at Radius .5 may be a bit too much USM unless you turned off sharpenig in the camera. The bottom two photos have a shallow DOF and blown highlights which makes them hard to judge.
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
 
Group Idiot said:
It only seems to be in the "hot" red areas. I think it's a more
insidious problem than oversharpening or downsizing.

Just what? I don't know.
Click to expand...
In my D30 I saw this a lot on red/orange colors. here is one example:



a 100% crop enlarged 300% with photoshop, otherwise unchanged.

I have not seen this at all on my 10D camera. Maybee something is wrong with your camera?

--
Regards
Ivar E. Hosteng
 
Hi. I can see the jagged edges even when I print it out. Its harder to notice but they are still there. I don't think they should be showing up at all. Its just the reddish areas in some photos. The rest of the image is fine. You can still see it even with minimal sharpening. Most other photos are fine when I use that much sharpening.
Jack DuMoulin said:
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Have you taken a look at the red channel by itself in PS? Would be interesting to see if that is the only channel it shows up in.
Brian79 said:
Jack DuMoulin said:
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
How about try sharpening ONLY the red channel and see what happens. Or sharpen only the other two, etc etc. Experiments are ususally helpful.
 
Hi. I tried it. The jagged edges show up in all channels when I looked at them individually.
Jack DuMoulin said:
Brian79 said:
Jack DuMoulin said:
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi. The jagged edges show up in all the channels when I looked at them individually. If you shappen any of the channels they still show up.
GBear said:
How about try sharpening ONLY the red channel and see what happens.
Or sharpen only the other two, etc etc. Experiments are ususally
helpful.
Click to expand...
 
This problem looks exactly like the effect of the "chroma upsampling bug" of progressive DVD players. JPEG encoding is similar in many ways to MPEG encoding on DVDs, specifically in the way it separates chroma (color) and luma (grayscale) information. Typically, the luma information is stored at full resolution, but the chroma information is stored for only 1/4 or 1/2 of the pixels and then upsampled (interpolated) when the image is decoded.

It's possible that the 10D has a problem with the way it encodes JPEG files, or maybe you're doing something in Photoshop that introduces the effect. Try taking similar photos in RAW mode and see if the problem still occurs. If not, then it's a problem with the JPEG encoding (and something that Canon could probably fix with a firmware update).
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
 
I noticed this in my D60 days, too.



It only happens when you shoot JPEG or convert RAW to JPEG.

It doesn't happen if you shoot RAW and convert it to TIFF. That's the solution. Try it.

--
Mishkin™
Theoretical Measurbator
 
Hi. Thanks for the information. I don't think its the way I saved it in PS. You can see the jagged edges in some pictures with doing anything to them. There must be something wrong with the way the JPEGs are being encoded in the camera. I hope they come out with a fix for this even though it doesn't happen all the time. I will try using the RAW mode. Thanks!
Joe Schwartz said:
It's possible that the 10D has a problem with the way it encodes
JPEG files, or maybe you're doing something in Photoshop that
introduces the effect. Try taking similar photos in RAW mode and
see if the problem still occurs. If not, then it's a problem with
the JPEG encoding (and something that Canon could probably fix with
a firmware update).
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
My Fuji S1 Pro DSLR did the same thing. I haven't noticed it with the 10D however. It seems to only happen with Jpegs.
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.



Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 10D
Orientation - 1 (top left)
XResolution - 180
YResolution - 180
ResolutionUnit - 2 (inch)
YCbCrPositioning - 1 (center of pixel array)
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 8.0000
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 220
DateTimeOriginal - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
DateTimeDigitized - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
ComponentsConfiguration - 1 2 3 (YCbCr)
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/250 seconds
ApertureValue - F 8.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.0000
Flash - 24
FocalLength - 65 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 100
ColorSpace - 1 (sRGB)
ExifImageWidth - 2048
ExifImageHeight - 3072
InteroperabilityOffset - 1456
FocalPlaneXResolution - 3442.0168
FocalPlaneYResolution - 3443.9462
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - 2

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Off
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Auto + red-eye reduction
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - AI Focus
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Full Auto
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Easy shooting
White Balance - Auto
Image Type - IMG:EOS 10D JPEG
Firmware Version - Firmware Version 00.00
Image Number - 1676728
Owner Name -
Focal length of lens : 28-105(mm)





Click to expand...
--
Some of my personal work: http://www.doxphotos.com
 
Brian79 said:
Hi,

Here are a few examples of jagged edges I am getting with my 10D in
some photos. They are mainly showing up in reddish areas. These
have been sharpened in PS7 using the unsharp mask. Amount 300%,
Radius 0.5%. You can see the jagged edges even without sharpening
but they are not as obvious. They are cut out sections from the
originals and have not been enlarged. Quaility is Fine and
ImageSize is Large. EXIF info is posted for the first image if
that helps. In some photos it gets extremely bad. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks for your help.



Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 10D
Orientation - 1 (top left)
XResolution - 180
YResolution - 180
ResolutionUnit - 2 (inch)
YCbCrPositioning - 1 (center of pixel array)
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 8.0000
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 220
DateTimeOriginal - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
DateTimeDigitized - 2003:07:01 09:44:43
ComponentsConfiguration - 1 2 3 (YCbCr)
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/250 seconds
ApertureValue - F 8.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.0000
Flash - 24
FocalLength - 65 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 100
ColorSpace - 1 (sRGB)
ExifImageWidth - 2048
ExifImageHeight - 3072
InteroperabilityOffset - 1456
FocalPlaneXResolution - 3442.0168
FocalPlaneYResolution - 3443.9462
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - 2

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Off
Self timer - Off
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Auto + red-eye reduction
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - AI Focus
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Full Auto
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Easy shooting
White Balance - Auto
Image Type - IMG:EOS 10D JPEG
Firmware Version - Firmware Version 00.00
Image Number - 1676728
Owner Name -
Focal length of lens : 28-105(mm)





Click to expand...
--I was gona sugest same thing mishka....Never Shoot inJpg, Then work on it then re-Save as Jpg....Bad is That....If you gona shoot Jpg, Save As Tiff, then work on it, or save as PSd, up to you...Go from RAW to Tiff...Good Luck....
MrScary (DennisR)
Swansea, Wales. UK

http://www.pbase.com/dennisr
http://community.webshots.com/user/mrscarecrow
http://digiden.photoshare.co.nz
 
I'm playing USM a few flower pictures today and I found that by raising the threshold you can reduce the effect.
 
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