Lightroom and NAS advise

HI, I'm planning on adding a NAS server and need some advise please. My current setup consist of 13 inch macbook pro with 128gb ssd with lightroom 6. I'm now running out of space for my photos and after much research I decided to go for QNAP 431/451(3).

If I go for 431 I'll be able to get 4x2TB drives with it, unfortunately 431 is limited to 512mb of RAM and does not sup port expansio enclosures.
If I go for 451/453 1GB of RAM (expandable) but I'll be only able to afford 2x3TB drives for start, adding more drives later.

Ideally I'd like to go for the second option I need to find out if it's possible to run it in JBOD with 2 drives, swapping it to RAID 5 when I add another two without loss of data.

I have the older QNAP 409 and yes, you can do that. You can set it up as you wish w/ 2 drives:

RAID0/RAID1/JBOD

Then add a 3rd/4th drive and rebuild it as a RAID5 or whatever they support. I think mine is config'd as 2x RAID1 and then I have a small external drive via USB as offsite backup. I've heard good things about Synology. Go for fast processor and more RAM. My 409 is no speed demon and I'm thinking about building a FreeNAS box

NAS is not fast enough for live working... Only useful for backup (actually archive).

And LR does not happily work with NETWORK drives... you need directly attached storage, eg via USB3.

I'm not sure how I've gotten on for the last 5 years in that case.

Howard Moftich said:

I'm not sure how I've gotten on for the last 5 years in that case.

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Heh. Maybe you don't look at your own pictures? ;-)

I assume the OP knows the downsides of using NAS with Lr. Since we're discussing using a laptop, compromises need to be made. I don't use a NAS with Lr much anymore, except for export for use displaying over a LAN, but sometimes I do need to edit a bunch of photos there. Not as nice as my DAS, but doable. I've found that using smart previews for stuff stored on NAS is the bomb. So your NAS doesn't even have to be connected, as will occur with a laptop.

Howard Moftich said:

I'm not sure how I've gotten on for the last 5 years in that case.

Click to expand...

Are you saying that you've been able to store the catalog on an NAS? I'm tryiing to come up with a solution that permits me to edit a LR catalog on two separate computers (not at the same time). Adobe (and the forums) say the catalog "can't" be stored on an NAS, so I've been too chicken to buy an NAS to try. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Steve

Here's an option, perhaps.

1) Use smart previews in LR.

2) Buy a 1tb SSD and have your catalog live on that drive

3) Only plug in your NAS/actual files when you need to do highly zoomed in edits or when you need to export.

Smart Previews in LR is, in my opinion, the BEST advance in LR and photo editing/storage.

I have a i7 mac with a ssd and use a samsung ssd for my LR catalog. Maybe it's a touch slower but I have no issues with waiting, etc..

no, the catalog *IS* local. It's all the photo's that are on the NAS.

Try Dropbox or similar. I think it fakes out LR.

LesPickstock said:

NAS is not fast enough for live working... Only useful for backup (actually archive).

Click to expand...

I run my NAS as my source image storage over a GigE wired home network. Editing is done using LR CC and PS CC with the files pulled directly from the NAS (LR CC) and saved directly there also (PS CC). Some files can be up to 4GB (actually even 8GB) in size (for psbs - which for other reasons LR cannot access; the largest file LR can read is (the compatibility layer from) a 4GB TIFF.).

It is a satisfactory solution for me (I do not use ethernet jumbo frames either). My regular raw images held on the NAS are c. 24MB, and that is certainly also fine for me, though LR preview build (using 2015 rMBP) can take some minutes when importing a day's shoot of many 100s of images.

I do not use LR xmp sidecars, but pretty sure performance would be OK even if I were to, as they are only small files.

I backup my source images onto a 2nd (and 3rd) NAS. Backup is also done over wired GigE (actually using a Win machine and SyncBack), though my NAS are also accessible over WLAN.

I do not use Smart Previews and have never found a need to do so... As I say LR performance with the source files on a NAS over GigE is fine. If I were to use WLAN to access the NAS, then performance would naturally be worse dependent on which WLAN standard I was to use (currently I have N available).

All my NAS are in RAID5, though I do not think that is really relevant in this overall discussion. I just prefer to still be able to tolerate an individual disk failure within a NAS enclosure without needing to revert to the backups to restore. I keep my NAS running 24/7 (off a UPS) as they also run DLNA media-servers.

LesPickstock said:

And LR does not happily work with NETWORK drives... you need directly attached storage, eg via USB3.

Click to expand...

Just to repeat as per above, LR technically works just fine if the source images are on NAS - i.e. SMB or other network file-access protocols are OK for the source images.

It is the LR .lrcat - aka the catalog file(s) - which must be on a non-network drive. That is because those need non-sequential fast access as they are read and written with every Develop Module slider adjust or Library Module image scroll (and in the other LR modules as well of course). .lrcat is an SQLite database file. SMB and network file-access protocols do not really allow for such file access, and therefore LR detects the underlying .lrcat access protocol and will not physically let you have the catalog database file on a network drive.

I keep my .lrcat, .lrdata previews and ACR cache all on my rMBP internal SSD, and both Develop and Library performance is just fine.

I think my set-up with source images on (wired GigE) NAS and catalog, previews, and cache locally (on SSD) is not at all an unusual LR configuration.

--
Mark W.
http://500px.com/Mark_Wycherley

Mark,

Am I correct that you do all your editing work on your rMBP? If so, why do you need the wired network?

Steve

DCSteve said:

Mark,

Am I correct that you do all your editing work on your rMBP?

Click to expand...

Yes.

It is dual-display configuration. The rMBP drives both its native display and also an external wide-gamut 30" 2560x1600 NEC sitting next to it.

I do also have a Win laptop which I use for some other things and as I am member of Adobe CC, I can and do also have LR and PS on the Win unit, but barely use them.

DCSteve said:

If so, why do you need the wired network?

Click to expand...

Speed (to the NASes and internet) vs the wireless-N access-point set-up I have - and in a sense because my main rMBP installation is on a desk, with the second display and a wired Wacom permanently connected in. No point to be wireless (wireless-N) when GigE wired is much faster and I am in effect in a fixed desk location for my real editing work on the 30" display anyways.

I also have a Sony TV, internet-connected Satellite TV box, blu-ray, and other stuff hanging off the wired network and internet. The GigE wired is only across two rooms at home (office and living room). The NAS are in the office. For the rest of the house (e.g. with iPhone) I am wireless.

The (4) NAS are all on an 8-way GigE switch with the rMBP (thunderbolt to ethernet conector), and the TV, sat box, and Blu-ray are on another (GigE) switch. I use mains 100Mbps ethernet for the cable run to the TV, Sat, and Blu-Ray part of the network which are on one side of the living room. The internet comes in the other side, and the rMBP and NAS stuff in the office is GigE wired through the wall to that side. My internet is 70Mbps downlink, so the Wireless-N access-point I use also is the weakest link for that.

I really set this GigE + wireless-N network up 6 years ago, and was up-until-recently using a 2009 MBP (only wireless-N), so although all is also wireless-N, the GigE is fastest (by quite some). I can take the rMBP walkabout around the house if I wanted for editing, but no real need as I use the Wacom and large display with it at my desk. I just can't do my "real" editing without the Wacom and 30" display. I need both.

I have not looked at getting another WLAN access-point and using faster WLAN (802.11ac) to the new 2015 rMBP because my GigE wired architecture really meets all my needs. If I was to get another 802.11ac device, then that would be the time to start to upgrade the wireless side.

--
Mark W.
http://500px.com/Mark_Wycherley

With regards to keeping your catalog on an SSD.

I use the catalog on my laptop and desktop via the SSD. I don't believe there is anyway to have your catalog online via dropbox, etc..

This is the best way I've been able to manage taking my catalog with me.


Very compact. Just make sure you back up the drive.... yup, another thing to backup and fail.....

Other people know much more about online backups, etc than I do. What I do know is you'd need a crazy fast and solid internet connection to do an initial load of your catalog and the room for error is huge if you were to write to the catalog from one computer while another was still working on it. For this reason alone I believe is why LR is not meant to live online like this.

This is what I do:


Pesonally I find working with images on the NAS a bit to slow - I have a local 8tb external raid drive, and use a Synology NAS as a time machine backup.