Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Secretly Installed On Windows 7, Windows 8(article)

It's obvious that Microsoft covets the mobile market and desperately wants into it. And I do believe that they've probably got the best OS offering that can span such a wide range of devices. I think it's a great platform - other things being equal I'd love to have the same OS on my phone and tablet as on my desktop. And I'm sure corporate IT departments would really prefer it too.

But the casual consumers that comprise the bulk of the market these days just don't seem to care about that kind of cross-platform compatibility. Perhaps it's because they're simply eschewing desktops and laptops altogether, so they have no apps and data from that world to worry about. What matters for most consumers is what apps are available and what their friends are using. Microsoft is locked out on both accounts. I myself had to buy an Android phone because none of my three remote controllable cameras have apps available for Windows. Microsoft rules the world for desktop apps, but mobile apps are an entirely different world.

It's a chicken-and-egg problem. Most people don't buy Windows phones or tablets because they're scarce and some of the apps they want aren't available, developers don't write the apps because there aren't as many people with devices to run them, and hardware manufacturers don't make the devices because of the lack of apps and customers.
My thinking for the last couple of months agrees with your paragraph in bold above. It's probably why MS is offering Win10 for free for one year. The hope being that folks will want compatibility across their phones, tablets and desktops. Apple has already got that right.

My thoughts. Mileage for others will vary.
Sky
 
Oh I'd certainly like it. I'm just having a really hard time seeing how they're going to get there. I've seen this sort of thing happen too often before with former market leaders such as IBM, Digital Equipment and Compaq to just assume that they're "too big to fail". As they say in the mutual fund industry: "past performance is no guarantee of future results".
Amdahl, Data General, Tandem, Silicon Graphics. And even Prime :-(
 
OK? At any rate only the future will tell, but Microsoft will be a big player in the mobile market. Whether some like it or not.
Oh I'd certainly like it. I'm just having a really hard time seeing how they're going to get there. I've seen this sort of thing happen too often before with former market leaders such as IBM, Digital Equipment and Compaq to just assume that they're "too big to fail". As they say in the mutual fund industry: "past performance is no guarantee of future results".
What would prevent MS from buying companies that would facilitate an increase in market share? A Korean phone company running MS OS might work.
 
OK? At any rate only the future will tell, but Microsoft will be a big player in the mobile market. Whether some like it or not.
Oh I'd certainly like it. I'm just having a really hard time seeing how they're going to get there.
What would prevent MS from buying companies that would facilitate an increase in market share? A Korean phone company running MS OS might work.
Well they already bought Nokia's phone division a couple of years ago with exactly that aim and I haven't really heard anything that suggests it's helped much so far. In fact their Lumia phone sales seem to have been dropping as of late, as has Windows smartphone OS market share. Only Android seems to have any significant market share growth these days.

Of course Apple is still selling lots of phones as people trade in their old models for new. But they don't seem to be gaining new converts the way Android is.
 
Oh I'd certainly like it. I'm just having a really hard time seeing how they're going to get there. I've seen this sort of thing happen too often before with former market leaders such as IBM, Digital Equipment and Compaq to just assume that they're "too big to fail". As they say in the mutual fund industry: "past performance is no guarantee of future results".
Amdahl, Data General, Tandem, Silicon Graphics. And even Prime :-(
Speaking of Amdahl, I just saw this on El Reg:

 
OK? At any rate only the future will tell, but Microsoft will be a big player in the mobile market. Whether some like it or not.
Oh I'd certainly like it. I'm just having a really hard time seeing how they're going to get there. I've seen this sort of thing happen too often before with former market leaders such as IBM, Digital Equipment and Compaq to just assume that they're "too big to fail". As they say in the mutual fund industry: "past performance is no guarantee of future results".
What would prevent MS from buying companies that would facilitate an increase in market share? A Korean phone company running MS OS might work.
Samsung seems to be doing quite well in the mobile market. Ask Apple :-)
 
Speaking of Amdahl, I just saw this on El Reg:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/13/gene_amdahl_obit/
It's the passing of the guard. Gene Amdahl was to the IBM 360 what Dave Cutler was to the DEC VAX/VMS architecture (and who then went on to imbue Windows NT with many of the same concepts).
I remember reading "Inside Windows NT" when NT came out; Dave Cutler wrote the foreword. Looking at his MS bio, I see he also did RSX-11M (which was on a little PDP-11 we had); a more impressive resume would be hard to find. And apparently he's still going.
 
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OK? At any rate only the future will tell, but Microsoft will be a big player in the mobile market. Whether some like it or not.
Oh I'd certainly like it. I'm just having a really hard time seeing how they're going to get there.
What would prevent MS from buying companies that would facilitate an increase in market share? A Korean phone company running MS OS might work.
Well they already bought Nokia's phone division a couple of years ago with exactly that aim and I haven't really heard anything that suggests it's helped much so far. In fact their Lumia phone sales seem to have been dropping as of late, as has Windows smartphone OS market share. Only Android seems to have any significant market share growth these days.

Of course Apple is still selling lots of phones as people trade in their old models for new. But they don't seem to be gaining new converts the way Android is.
I am aware of Nokia. Why stop there?
 
What would prevent MS from buying companies that would facilitate an increase in market share? A Korean phone company running MS OS might work.
Well they already bought Nokia's phone division a couple of years ago with exactly that aim and I haven't really heard anything that suggests it's helped much so far.
I am aware of Nokia. Why stop there?
Well I guess the obvious choice would be Samsung, but I'm really not sure how feasible that would be.
 
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What would prevent MS from buying companies that would facilitate an increase in market share? A Korean phone company running MS OS might work.
Well they already bought Nokia's phone division a couple of years ago with exactly that aim and I haven't really heard anything that suggests it's helped much so far.
I am aware of Nokia. Why stop there?
Well I guess the obvious choice would be Samsung, but I'm really not sure how feasible that would be.
I was thinking along the lines of HTC. If you were Samsung, would you spin off your phone division for a sale to MS.
 
What would prevent MS from buying companies that would facilitate an increase in market share? A Korean phone company running MS OS might work.
Well they already bought Nokia's phone division a couple of years ago with exactly that aim and I haven't really heard anything that suggests it's helped much so far. In fact their Lumia phone sales seem to have been dropping as of late, as has Windows smartphone OS market share. Only Android seems to have any significant market share growth these days.
And Google lost a bundle buying Motorola Mobile.

The history for companies trying to buy their way to relevance is pretty poor. The leaders are rarely for sale. Samsung is certainly not for sale (and would cost 200B), and HTC already had its time in the sun.

Apple succeeded with its integration because people were buying the phone by itself. Unlike Blackberry, they delivered a viable smart phone. And then the ipad, and IOS development shifted to integration. But we know most iphone/ipad owners don't have macs as well, so it's pretty clear the apple fans don't care about that integration. So how is that supposed to be a selling point for MS?
 
What ticks me off is that you must hunt down the details of each and every update.
Does it matter?
It depends. Many consumers are happy to delegate the entire task to Microsoft and Windows Update. Others (including many corporate customers and IT professionals) prefer to retain a lot more control.
They're not the only ones. Thank you, MS, very much, but I prefer to make ALL the update decisions for my PCs.

Now, will someone tell me how to find and disable the auto-update feature on Win7 Pro and Win7 Home?
 
Well I guess the obvious choice would be Samsung, but I'm really not sure how feasible that would be.
The battle for smartphones as we know them today is over. Microsoft lost. Actually they were never really in the fight.

Spending money to acquire more of yesterday's technology isn't going to sit well with the shareholders who have already taken a $8 billion hit on Nokia.

The only way they can achieve success now, is with some kind of disruptive leapfrog. If they can make a lucky guess and build the device that folks are going to be buying 5 years from now, they can get back in the game.

I'm not sure SatNad is the kind of innovative leader to pull that off.
 
Well I guess the obvious choice would be Samsung, but I'm really not sure how feasible that would be.
The battle for smartphones as we know them today is over. Microsoft lost. Actually they were never really in the fight.

Spending money to acquire more of yesterday's technology isn't going to sit well with the shareholders who have already taken a $8 billion hit on Nokia.

The only way they can achieve success now, is with some kind of disruptive leapfrog. If they can make a lucky guess and build the device that folks are going to be buying 5 years from now, they can get back in the game.

I'm not sure SatNad is the kind of innovative leader to pull that off.
No one knows the future! Apple certainly didn't see Samsung coming when they blitzed them with the Galaxy S. Now Samsung is Apple's chief rival in the Smartphone market. Things change, players move around. Today Microsoft isn't in the game but in a few years, I'm not so sure they'll be so insignificant here.

No one thought Samsung would be where they are. My how things have changed. With all of Microsoft's resources and funding, they may very well be a significant player. Will they move to No.1, that remains to be seen, but I hardly think they'll be a distant third.

At any rate we can all speculate but we just don't know. However, my bet is that they will succeed; the market is ready for something fresh and new, and Microsoft my be the one to deliver.

My two cents.
 
No one knows the future! Apple certainly didn't see Samsung coming when they blitzed them with the Galaxy S. Now Samsung is Apple's chief rival in the Smartphone market. Things change, players move around.
The successful ones do seem to have an ability to bet on the future, whether you think that's a matter of skill or pure luck (or a bit of each).

Steve Jobs may not have seen Samsung coming but I'm absolutely positive he anticipated strong competitors trying to emulate Apple's success with the iPhone, just like, ummm, Samsung.
At any rate we can all speculate but we just don't know. However, my bet is that they will succeed; the market is ready for something fresh and new, and Microsoft my be the one to deliver.
It might but I'm not seeing evidence of the type of leadership that I think it will take.

I don't see MS going away but I think it's going to look more like an IBM or ATT. Kinda boring, actually!
 
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I don't see MS going away but I think it's going to look more like an IBM or ATT. Kinda boring, actually!
Perhaps because the innovations they do come up with are met with such hostility.

And I'm guilty too--I hated the Windows 8 UI, though the underlying OS worked fine post-Classic Shell.

But really, it seems like the majority of the user base wants an incrementally improved (if at all) Windows 7, or even XP.
 
Perhaps because the innovations they do come up with are met with such hostility.

And I'm guilty too--I hated the Windows 8 UI, though the underlying OS worked fine post-Classic Shell.

But really, it seems like the majority of the user base wants an incrementally improved (if at all) Windows 7, or even XP.
I think folks want "compelling advantages" rather than the merely "different" (for the sake of different).

Seriously, we've exhausted the interesting Start Menu variations.
 
I don't see MS going away but I think it's going to look more like an IBM or ATT. Kinda boring, actually!
Perhaps because the innovations they do come up with are met with such hostility.

And I'm guilty too--I hated the Windows 8 UI, though the underlying OS worked fine post-Classic Shell.

But really, it seems like the majority of the user base wants an incrementally improved (if at all) Windows 7, or even XP.
Sticking ads on Solitaire isn't innovation. Innovation is coming up with solutions to problems people didn't know they had. Whereas proscribing new solutions (crappy, self serving UI changes) when people were happy already is arrogance and rarely rewarded.

MS has hit 2 home runs in its HW history - the dove bar mouse, and Kinect. Strangely, they've not followed up on the latter one. The Surface tablets have been an exercise in flinging crap at the wall and seeing what sticks. I think their interest here is more in encouraging more to follow rather than to become a hardware company.

Samsung has a very good history with taking (or depending on the lawyers, stealing) existing designs and improving upon them. They used this to build market share in TVs, fridges, washer dryers, tablets, phones, etc. They are a manufacturing corporation; MS is not. So pointing to them (Admint) as a reason to believe MS will ;false confidence.
 

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