should i be cropping instead of resizing?

HEATWAVS said:

i have photos that need reframing. i have been resizing them to do this. meaning i have been making the picture bigger so that it basically zooms in and i keep the frame the same size. i do this in photoshop using the transform tool.

should i be doing this or should i be cropping the image making the frame smaller? i dont like the smaller frame, but just wondering.

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HEATWAVS said:

i have photos that need reframing. i have been resizing them to do this. meaning i have been making the picture bigger so that it basically zooms in and i keep the frame the same size. i do this in photoshop using the transform tool.

should i be doing this or should i be cropping the image making the frame smaller? i dont like the smaller frame, but just wondering.

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jbf said:

Mark gave a great answer about the issues involved. The short answer is that you should always save a copy of the unedited original then crop. Crop for artistic reasons only, never to resize. Use the crop tool, not the transform tool. Never upsize for any reason (there are rare exceptions, but you will only be degrading the image quality by doing this). Never downsize for printing. Send all of the pixels to the printer. Specify the print size in the printer properties and let the printer figure out the rest. Only downsize for output to digital media to make the file size and display size user friendly. Use the Image Size menu command to downsize.

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Chris R-UK said:

HEATWAVS said:

i have photos that need reframing. i have been resizing them to do this. meaning i have been making the picture bigger so that it basically zooms in and i keep the frame the same size. i do this in photoshop using the transform tool.

should i be doing this or should i be cropping the image making the frame smaller? i dont like the smaller frame, but just wondering.

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Resizing an image changes the number of pixels in the image without changing the composition. For example, if you have a 4000x6000 MP image that you want to post to the web at 1800x1200 pixels resolution, you resize the image to reduce the number of pixels. Sometimes you need to resize upwards, e.g. when you don't have the required resolution for a very large print.

Cropping changes the composition of the image by removing parts of it and that will also reduce the total number of pixels.

Cropping and resizing have different functions and often you will do both, e.g. crop the image to improve the composition and then resize it for the web. I do that almost every time I post an image here.

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Mark Scott Abeln said:

HEATWAVS said:

i have photos that need reframing. i have been resizing them to do this. meaning i have been making the picture bigger so that it basically zooms in and i keep the frame the same size. i do this in photoshop using the transform tool.

should i be doing this or should i be cropping the image making the frame smaller? i dont like the smaller frame, but just wondering.

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I'm not entirely sure what you are asking. By reframing, I assume you mean changing the crop of the image? Cutting of some of the sides of the image?

Understand that digital image files have no intrinsic physical size whatsoever; rather, they have certain pixel dimensions. For example, my camera delivers images that are 4928 pixels along the long edge, and 3264 along the short edge. Cropping cuts off the unwanted pixels, leaving the others intact.

If you do a resize, the computer software has to resample the image, changing its pixel structure, either eliminating pixels when making it smaller, or interpolating pixels when making it larger. This interpolation is false detail, which may not be particularly convincing when examined up close, and is likely to be rather soft without the impression of sharpness.

If you often find yourself cropping your images severely, understand that resizing won't be making up for anything that is lost. Instead, you might consider zooming in closer to your subjects, or standing closer so as to fill your frame better.

I ought to mention the Perfect Resize product, which uses fractal mathematics to artificially generate plausible detail when enlarging an image. It isn't perfect, but it does allow you to enlarge a photo to a larger size more satisfactorily than Photoshop.

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HEATWAVS said:

the one thing i dont like about cropping is the frame becomes smaller. im trying to avoid that but if i cant then i guess i can deal with it

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HEATWAVS said:

just wanted to clarify that i used a film camera for this. didnt mention in the original post. i also meant resize via transform tool by dragging the corners. the picture ends up bigger then the frame but i can recompose that way. thats how i do it in the dark room when making prints....

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chuxter said:

HEATWAVS said:

just wanted to clarify that i used a film camera for this. didnt mention in the original post. i also meant resize via transform tool by dragging the corners. the picture ends up bigger then the frame but i can recompose that way. thats how i do it in the dark room when making prints....

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You are quite confused. Don't take that as an insult...

OK, you started out with film, took quite underexposed, grainy images. Then I assume you scanned them, creating JPEG files, which you imported into PS. Right?

Before you moved to the digital realm, those film images had a physical size [I'm guessing a 35mm camera, thus the image was 36mm x 24mm]. After you scanned them, they only have pixel dimensions, which do not exist in the real, physical world.

Thus, your claim that the transformed digital image is larger than "the frame" seems nonsensical. It might help us to know what "the frame" is... :-0

Any "size" digital image [of a constant aspect ratio, like 3:2] will fit ANY frame with that aspect ratio. you can print a 300 x 200, 1500 x 1000, 3000 x 2000, 6000 x 4000, or 9000 x 6000 digital image at any size that has a 3:2 aspect ratio. I just picked a few pixel dimensions; there are many others. HOWEVER, it can't be "resized" to fit any other aspect ratio w/o distorting the image.

SO, you can't take that 3:2 image and "resize" it to fit into an 8" x 10" frame! To do this, you must CROP the image, which involves throwing away parts of it.

My point is that until you change your paradigm to a digital one, you will not understand the differences between cropping and re-sizing.

I think all of us are confused what you mean by "...I can't recompose that way." What does "recompose" mean to you in this context?

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chuxter said:

HEATWAVS said:

just wanted to clarify that i used a film camera for this. didnt mention in the original post. i also meant resize via transform tool by dragging the corners. the picture ends up bigger then the frame but i can recompose that way. thats how i do it in the dark room when making prints....

Click to expand...

You are quite confused. Don't take that as an insult...

OK, you started out with film, took quite underexposed, grainy images. Then I assume you scanned them, creating JPEG files, which you imported into PS. Right?

Before you moved to the digital realm, those film images had a physical size [I'm guessing a 35mm camera, thus the image was 36mm x 24mm]. After you scanned them, they only have pixel dimensions, which do not exist in the real, physical world.

Thus, your claim that the transformed digital image is larger than "the frame" seems nonsensical. It might help us to know what "the frame" is... :-0

Any "size" digital image [of a constant aspect ratio, like 3:2] will fit ANY frame with that aspect ratio. you can print a 300 x 200, 1500 x 1000, 3000 x 2000, 6000 x 4000, or 9000 x 6000 digital image at any size that has a 3:2 aspect ratio. I just picked a few pixel dimensions; there are many others. HOWEVER, it can't be "resized" to fit any other aspect ratio w/o distorting the image.

SO, you can't take that 3:2 image and "resize" it to fit into an 8" x 10" frame! To do this, you must CROP the image, which involves throwing away parts of it.

My point is that until you change your paradigm to a digital one, you will not understand the differences between cropping and re-sizing.

I think all of us are confused what you mean by "...I can't recompose that way." What does "recompose" mean to you in this context?

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HEATWAVS said:

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

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Mark S Abeln said:

HEATWAVS said:

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

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Digital resampling doesn't add any new image detail, but instead smoothly interpolates between existing pixels.

Now, not all interpolation methods give you the same results, and the methods used in Photoshop aren't particularly spectacular. But understand that they won't give you anything that didn't already exist in the original image.

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HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

Click to expand...

Digital resampling doesn't add any new image detail, but instead smoothly interpolates between existing pixels.

Now, not all interpolation methods give you the same results, and the methods used in Photoshop aren't particularly spectacular. But understand that they won't give you anything that didn't already exist in the original image.

--
http://therefractedlight.blogspot.com

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So basically it's better to cut the image or known as actually cropping?

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jbf said:

HEATWAVS said:

jbf said:

HEATWAVS said:

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

Click to expand...

Digital resampling doesn't add any new image detail, but instead smoothly interpolates between existing pixels.

Now, not all interpolation methods give you the same results, and the methods used in Photoshop aren't particularly spectacular. But understand that they won't give you anything that didn't already exist in the original image.

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HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

Click to expand...

Digital resampling doesn't add any new image detail, but instead smoothly interpolates between existing pixels.

Now, not all interpolation methods give you the same results, and the methods used in Photoshop aren't particularly spectacular. But understand that they won't give you anything that didn't already exist in the original image.

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jbf said:

HEATWAVS said:

jbf said:

HEATWAVS said:

jbf said:

HEATWAVS said:

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

Click to expand...

Digital resampling doesn't add any new image detail, but instead smoothly interpolates between existing pixels.

Now, not all interpolation methods give you the same results, and the methods used in Photoshop aren't particularly spectacular. But understand that they won't give you anything that didn't already exist in the original image.

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HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

just wanted to clarify that i used a film camera for this. didnt mention in the original post. i also meant resize via transform tool by dragging the corners. the picture ends up bigger then the frame but i can recompose that way. thats how i do it in the dark room when making prints....

Click to expand...

You are quite confused. Don't take that as an insult...

OK, you started out with film, took quite underexposed, grainy images. Then I assume you scanned them, creating JPEG files, which you imported into PS. Right?

Before you moved to the digital realm, those film images had a physical size [I'm guessing a 35mm camera, thus the image was 36mm x 24mm]. After you scanned them, they only have pixel dimensions, which do not exist in the real, physical world.

Thus, your claim that the transformed digital image is larger than "the frame" seems nonsensical. It might help us to know what "the frame" is... :-0

Any "size" digital image [of a constant aspect ratio, like 3:2] will fit ANY frame with that aspect ratio. you can print a 300 x 200, 1500 x 1000, 3000 x 2000, 6000 x 4000, or 9000 x 6000 digital image at any size that has a 3:2 aspect ratio. I just picked a few pixel dimensions; there are many others. HOWEVER, it can't be "resized" to fit any other aspect ratio w/o distorting the image.

SO, you can't take that 3:2 image and "resize" it to fit into an 8" x 10" frame! To do this, you must CROP the image, which involves throwing away parts of it.

My point is that until you change your paradigm to a digital one, you will not understand the differences between cropping and re-sizing.

I think all of us are confused what you mean by "...I can't recompose that way." What does "recompose" mean to you in this context?

Click to expand...

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

Click to expand...

chuxter said:

HEATWAVS said:

chuxter said:

HEATWAVS said:

just wanted to clarify that i used a film camera for this. didnt mention in the original post. i also meant resize via transform tool by dragging the corners. the picture ends up bigger then the frame but i can recompose that way. thats how i do it in the dark room when making prints....

Click to expand...

You are quite confused. Don't take that as an insult...

OK, you started out with film, took quite underexposed, grainy images. Then I assume you scanned them, creating JPEG files, which you imported into PS. Right?

Before you moved to the digital realm, those film images had a physical size [I'm guessing a 35mm camera, thus the image was 36mm x 24mm]. After you scanned them, they only have pixel dimensions, which do not exist in the real, physical world.

Thus, your claim that the transformed digital image is larger than "the frame" seems nonsensical. It might help us to know what "the frame" is... :-0

Any "size" digital image [of a constant aspect ratio, like 3:2] will fit ANY frame with that aspect ratio. you can print a 300 x 200, 1500 x 1000, 3000 x 2000, 6000 x 4000, or 9000 x 6000 digital image at any size that has a 3:2 aspect ratio. I just picked a few pixel dimensions; there are many others. HOWEVER, it can't be "resized" to fit any other aspect ratio w/o distorting the image.

SO, you can't take that 3:2 image and "resize" it to fit into an 8" x 10" frame! To do this, you must CROP the image, which involves throwing away parts of it.

My point is that until you change your paradigm to a digital one, you will not understand the differences between cropping and re-sizing.

I think all of us are confused what you mean by "...I can't recompose that way." What does "recompose" mean to you in this context?

Click to expand...

If you look at the second picture it is now bigger. If I were to have used a bigger workspace in photoshop you would see the picture has gotten bigger. Right now it looks more zoomed in. You get what I'm saying by bigger now? Btw I use digital and film.

Click to expand...

You are STILL quite confused.

Both pictures are the same size! They are BOTH 4373 x 2933 pixels. However, you have cropped the 1st image to make the subjects appear larger in the second image. You did not change the aspect ratio [which is 1.49:1 or just under 3:2]. You did not change the number of pixels [both images are roughly 12.8 MP]. In doing this change, you took some of the pixels and resampled them, to make them "smaller". By "smaller" I mean that the resultant pixels cover a lesser part of the image.

Here is a picture of your two images overlayed:



When you do this, PS has to create data. You took a part of your 1st image that was 3347 x 2244 pixels [7.51 MP] and expanded it to fill that 4373 x 2933 space. PS had to interpolate the data to create an extra 5,290,000 pixels. As another poster mentioned, PS does not have really powerful interpolation algorithm choices to use when making the pixel count increase.

Alternately, you could have cropped the image to show exactly the same things, but that would have resulted in a 7.51 MP image instead of a 12.8 MP image.

You can print either the 12.8 MP or 7.51 MP image. They will look the same, even if you print them really big. WHY? Well, because that image is so noisy, you won't see the differences. Had you presented us w/ a good, sharp image, then I would have said that they still would look much the same. If you print them extremely large, then you will see larger pixels appear in the 7.51 MP version.

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HEATWAVS said:

HEATWAVS said:

You are STILL quite confused.

Both pictures are the same size! They are BOTH 4373 x 2933 pixels. However, you have cropped the 1st image to make the subjects appear larger in the second image. You did not change the aspect ratio [which is 1.49:1 or just under 3:2]. You did not change the number of pixels [both images are roughly 12.8 MP]. In doing this change, you took some of the pixels and resampled them, to make them "smaller". By "smaller" I mean that the resultant pixels cover a lesser part of the image.

Here is a picture of your two images overlayed:



When you do this, PS has to create data. You took a part of your 1st image that was 3347 x 2244 pixels [7.51 MP] and expanded it to fill that 4373 x 2933 space. PS had to interpolate the data to create an extra 5,290,000 pixels. As another poster mentioned, PS does not have really powerful interpolation algorithm choices to use when making the pixel count increase.

Alternately, you could have cropped the image to show exactly the same things, but that would have resulted in a 7.51 MP image instead of a 12.8 MP image.

You can print either the 12.8 MP or 7.51 MP image. They will look the same, even if you print them really big. WHY? Well, because that image is so noisy, you won't see the differences. Had you presented us w/ a good, sharp image, then I would have said that they still would look much the same. If you print them extremely large, then you will see larger pixels appear in the 7.51 MP version.

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They are the same size now because of What's saved is what's in the workspace. What's outside of the workspace is ignored.

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HEATWAVS said:

Btw it's grainy because it's film....

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