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Epiphany about Samsung rumors and sensors

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Sports Dad

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Think for a second.

Currently who makes the best APSC sensors? It is very close and Nikon can so some wonderful things with the Sony/Toshiba sensors, but Samsung is on their first try with BSI and has a larger resolution sensor.

Samsung is one of the world's largest chip makers. They are #2 just behind Intel and TEN times larger than Sony.

Does anyone think for a second Samsung will give up all their R&D and quit making state of the art Sensor chips?
 
Sports Dad said:
Think for a second.

Currently who makes the best APSC sensors? It is very close and Nikon can so some wonderful things with the Sony/Toshiba sensors, but Samsung is on their first try with BSI and has a larger resolution sensor.

Samsung is one of the world's largest chip makers. They are #2 just behind Intel and TEN times larger than Sony.

Does anyone think for a second Samsung will give up all their R&D and quit making state of the art Sensor chips?
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Agreed: Chip production or even camera production costs pale beside the R&D cost. You are right on the money with this one, Sports Dad!
 
mg_k said:
No one doubts Samsung's superior sensor but the future of NX system.
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Hi, mg_k:

What Sports Dad is saying: Is that the bulk of the production cost has already been invested. It cost very little extra (relatively little, anyway) to produce the actual products. Therefore: any additional income from sales is almost ALL profit. It does not make ANY sense to discontinue a product that can ( and most certainly will ) create additional income, as fixed cost have already been met.

Got it?
 
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Read OP's last sentence carefully again.

No one is saying Samsung should dump the sensor, fwiw I think Canon can even consider teaming up with Samsung to fight against Sony/Nikon.

There are many factors that affects the success of a SYSTEM, if sensor is the only factor Canon would have been gone 5 years ago.

As it currently stands the NX SYSTEM is lacking in sales and not gaining any significant market share, so it's totally understandable Samsung is thinking of pulling out.
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mg_k said:
Read OP's last sentence carefully again.

No one is saying Samsung should dump the sensor, fwiw I think Canon can even consider teaming up with Samsung to fight against Sony/Nikon.

There are many factors that affects the success of a SYSTEM, if sensor is the only factor Canon would have been gone 5 years ago.

As it currently stands the NX SYSTEM is lacking in sales and not gaining any significant market share, so it's totally understandable Samsung is thinking of pulling out.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photograph
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No, it makes no sense for them to abrubtly stop. It costs very little to continue with they've all ready designed and stey up product lines.
You are right that they should be selling this to Canon.
In fact I think something is in the works. They are going to sell FF BSI sensors to Canon, and then as we've heard from our friend in Germany focus on a mirrorless FF system of their own.
 
mg_k said:
No one doubts Samsung's superior sensor but the future of NX system.

Sigma makes superior lenses that rivals Canikon too, but look at the how well sigma system sells.
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While the Sigma Fovern is pretty good sensor (but to me, a bit too digital like), its use is limited mostly in good light land scrape and specific stills. It is a very very niche camera. On the other hand, Samsung NX is not just a superior sensor, it also has excellent functionality in all areas. It is almost both a Jack of all Trade and master of all (well, almost in some areas) . Well, maybe not long range sports, yet.
 
Here we go again.......................................................
 
Sports Dad said:
Sports Dad said:
Read OP's last sentence carefully again.

No one is saying Samsung should dump the sensor, fwiw I think Canon can even consider teaming up with Samsung to fight against Sony/Nikon.

There are many factors that affects the success of a SYSTEM, if sensor is the only factor Canon would have been gone 5 years ago.

As it currently stands the NX SYSTEM is lacking in sales and not gaining any significant market share, so it's totally understandable Samsung is thinking of pulling out.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photograph
Click to expand...
No, it makes no sense for them to abrubtly stop. It costs very little to continue with they've all ready designed and stey up product lines.
You are right that they should be selling this to Canon.
In fact I think something is in the works. They are going to sell FF BSI sensors to Canon, and then as we've heard from our friend in Germany focus on a mirrorless FF system of their own.
Click to expand...
I would like to believe this but putting 4K video aside, for about $200 more than an NX1, a FF Sony A7ii can be had and tbh, I cannot see what anyone would buy an NX1. The Sony A7ii has better IQ, far more lenses, IBIS and is physically smaller and about the same weight.

That Samsung has not seriously invested in lenses is to me telling and the NX1 and S lens price points indicates that senior Samsung management is not fully committed to the the NX system.
 
My take is that Samsung is taking a sabbatical year off to see where they will be going next, while they keep on producing their current lineup for the markets that will still absorb them. All other markets where they have been loosing money have been ditched for obvious reasons. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and wait until CES in January to see if the NX system will still be alive next year.
 
I would not be surprised to see Samsung sensors in Canon cameras in the near future. Samsung has already withdrawn from the system camera market except in a few countries, but they still make great sensors while Canon are lagging. The obvious thing is for Samsung to save itself the cost of developing camera systems and lenses then marketing those against the established players and just sell sensors and perhaps processors to those camera brands. Canon already buys Sony sensors. They may well prefer to buy from a 3rd party that isn't a direct competitor. Rumours have it they're testing a 3rd party fullframe sensor in a mirrorless camera. Samsung doesn't have a FF product so that's probably a Sony sensor. But imagine the NX500 sensor in an EOS-M4. The only fly in the ointment of this theory is Canon's dual pixel technology which they like to put in their high end APS cameras. If they could come to some agreement with Samsung to combine technologies their could be something really good in an 80D (which was also rumoured to be 28MP) or M4.
 
Jude 101 said:
Sports Dad said:
Jude 101 said:
Read OP's last sentence carefully again.

No one is saying Samsung should dump the sensor, fwiw I think Canon can even consider teaming up with Samsung to fight against Sony/Nikon.

There are many factors that affects the success of a SYSTEM, if sensor is the only factor Canon would have been gone 5 years ago.

As it currently stands the NX SYSTEM is lacking in sales and not gaining any significant market share, so it's totally understandable Samsung is thinking of pulling out.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photograph
Click to expand...
No, it makes no sense for them to abrubtly stop. It costs very little to continue with they've all ready designed and stey up product lines.
You are right that they should be selling this to Canon.
In fact I think something is in the works. They are going to sell FF BSI sensors to Canon, and then as we've heard from our friend in Germany focus on a mirrorless FF system of their own.
Click to expand...
I would like to believe this but putting 4K video aside, for about $200 more than an NX1, a FF Sony A7ii can be had and tbh, I cannot see what anyone would buy an NX1. The Sony A7ii has better IQ, far more lenses, IBIS and is physically smaller and about the same weight.

That Samsung has not seriously invested in lenses is to me telling and the NX1 and S lens price points indicates that senior Samsung management is not fully committed to the the NX system.
Click to expand...
The A7II is better in some area, mostly in the high ISO, and not by much either (around half a stop), and also IBIS and selection of very expensive lens. If you want to shot moving kids, you can forget it. I have the A7 and NX500, the NX500 is much much faster in tracking. One thing Sony lacks is good value lens, so if you want a good value system with good IQ, the A7 FF is not the best choice. Here is a comparison test I have done with the Sony A7 kit and NX500 kit, the NX500 with the tiny kit has better IQ at F8 across the frame.

www.flickr.com

Camera Test

Explore this photo album by ChuckT99 on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
The A7II has terrible ergonomics and doesn't hold a candle to the NX1 for anyone that shoots sports or birds or anything else that benefits from fast AF and high FPS. Think of why the 7DII is popular for Canon (it's not only the price).
 
Price:

The A7 series has its merit but things get very expensive and quite heavy quickly. I think they have only two lenses under $800: 'kit' zoom and the 28mm f2.

4K:

If you want 4K without giving up resolution for stills, there's A7rii ($3200) but it overheats easily so it's a no go if you need a dependable 4K capture lasting more than a few minutes. And as we saw earlier, its video quality is painfully inferior to NX1 in terms of details.

Ergonomics:

A7 series do look sexy at first glance. But once you start using it, you run into usability issues. They are just not very comfortable to hold and shoot.

I've owned an A7 with the FE 55mm but returned them because of above and other issues. This is why I actually think Samsung could come in with their own FF and compete by addressing those issues.
 
mg_k said:
Read OP's last sentence carefully again.

No one is saying Samsung should dump the sensor, fwiw I think Canon can even consider teaming up with Samsung to fight against Sony/Nikon.

There are many factors that affects the success of a SYSTEM, if sensor is the only factor Canon would have been gone 5 years ago.

As it currently stands the NX SYSTEM is lacking in sales and not gaining any significant market share, so it's totally understandable Samsung is thinking of pulling out.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photograph
Click to expand...
Actually I retract my statement above. Canon isn't and won't use Samsung sensor.

The reason is simple. Japanese vs Korean company. Canon would rather use another Japanese sensor aka Sony than Samsung.

The rivalry is built into their blood.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photography
 
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If you don't shoot video and shoot only pics of still subjects, and want to spend much more for comparable fl lenses, then I agree with you.

Otherwise, nx1 over a7ii for sure.
 
a few years ago is a long time. Camera years are longer than dog years. They're losing market share partly because of the perception that their sensor process technology is obsolete. So their choice is to invest more or outsource sensors for specific products.
 
mg_k said:
mg_k said:
Read OP's last sentence carefully again.

No one is saying Samsung should dump the sensor, fwiw I think Canon can even consider teaming up with Samsung to fight against Sony/Nikon.

There are many factors that affects the success of a SYSTEM, if sensor is the only factor Canon would have been gone 5 years ago.

As it currently stands the NX SYSTEM is lacking in sales and not gaining any significant market share, so it's totally understandable Samsung is thinking of pulling out.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photograph
Click to expand...
Actually I retract my statement above. Canon isn't and won't use Samsung sensor.

The reason is simple. Japanese vs Korean company. Canon would rather use another Japanese sensor aka Sony than Samsung.

The rivalry is built into their blood.
Click to expand...
 
MikeDPR said:
mg_k said:
mg_k said:
Read OP's last sentence carefully again.

No one is saying Samsung should dump the sensor, fwiw I think Canon can even consider teaming up with Samsung to fight against Sony/Nikon.

There are many factors that affects the success of a SYSTEM, if sensor is the only factor Canon would have been gone 5 years ago.

As it currently stands the NX SYSTEM is lacking in sales and not gaining any significant market share, so it's totally understandable Samsung is thinking of pulling out.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kin2son/
http://www.gettyimages.com/search/photographer?photographer=Kinson+C+Photograph
Click to expand...
Actually I retract my statement above. Canon isn't and won't use Samsung sensor.

The reason is simple. Japanese vs Korean company. Canon would rather use another Japanese sensor aka Sony than Samsung.

The rivalry is built into their blood.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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