Trevor Carpenter
Forum Pro
or is it all in the eye of the beholder? Just something that been worrying my brain cells for a little while.
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Does under exposure/over exposure exist..
- Thread starter Trevor Carpenter
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Guy Parsons
Forum Pro
Worry no more, yes it does exist.
The question is, what concerns you to ask that question?
Over-exposure in my terms is when the highlights are irretrievably blown, under-exposure is when the shadows are black and mucky and the white things are grey.
Adjustments in post process help recover some of the mess but cannot fix a truly bad exposure.
For post process work with a calibrated IPS style screen under proper room lighting conditions and you can better see the exposure than many out there peering at images on a smartphone with sunlight glinting off the screen.
Regards.... Guy
agnost
Well-known member
Trevor Carpenter
Forum Pro
What concerns me to ask the question? The feeling that I have a preference for underexposed shots whereas a lot of people post what to my eyes look over exposed. The difference is minimal and yes I don't mean black and mucky as opposed to blown highlights but something much closer to the middle.
Colin K. Work
Senior Member
I'd go further than that. If for example the recorded value of an 18% grey card differs from 18% then the scene has been under exposed or over exposed. In which case you have either made a mistake or a creative decision.
In either case the tone values of your image differ from the scene as it was. Of course this can be extremely desirable to produce a particular mood ... it might even be desirable for technical reasons. Many slide shooters deliberately (slightly) under expose to improve color saturation. Digital shooters will often overexpose (ETTR techniques) to reduce noise and improve shadow detail.
It can be correct to over or under expose, however this presupposes the exposure was made with a full understanding of the implications and is matched by appropriate post processing.
This was the basis of Ansel Adams' zone theory - nothing has really changed.
Paulmorgan
Veteran Member
Many of the calibration devices out there only set color but ignore screen brightness levels.
My xrite device sets both and its not a problem for me but if you want to check exposure screen brightness settings matter a whole lot more than color calibration with or without an IPS screen.
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Guy Parsons
Forum Pro
One very large and insurmountable problem is that everyone uses different screens to see the images.
Maybe 95% of them are uncalibrated and inferior TN type screens, so we all see something different for the same image presented. Then there's personal tastes of course to add to that.
In my case I use 4 computers, one little netbook here on the family table while I munch breakfast, one i7 notebook on the coffee table while I half watch TV at night, a small notebook in the "study" that handles all the emails (no cloud based email stuff for me), and a desktop with 24 inch calibrated high quality IPS screen where I get to see things properly.
The same image on all of them does look different despite attempts to calibrate them all. The best looking being the Asus IPS screen of course, but the cheap Philips monitor attached to the email notebook is nearly as good. The other two with lesser screens are down in viewing quality.
So in my case when I look at an image it can vary from passably OK to great.
Thus for my situation I should reserve any comments on other peoples' work to content and not to exposure. But it's always fun to grab an image and run some quick and easy auto fix on it to see what happens.
Usually as long as there's white that looks white, some blacks that do seem black and mid tones look to be mid then all is OK. Personal preferences may bend those mid tones up or down but it will look wrong if the blacks and whites are not correct.
Have you any examples to show as to what worries you as to what others may think? I promise I'll go look with the calibrated IPS screen to see them properly.
Regards........ Guy
Guy Parsons
Forum Pro
My Spyder3 thingy does measure screen brightness and room brightness and advises on both, the usual recommended screen brightness may look a bit dull at first but I guess the calibration effort is done more to match what a final print may look like as prints don't actually glow.
The best tool that I've found for exposure is the auto exposure adjust in Silkypix where it analyses all pixels and takes white to white and also shows the EV shift done. Many times just a simple +0.2 EV or similar small shift occurs and it suddenly improves the look.
Regards....... Guy
(light meters are calibrated to 12% grey. Or better said, to an ANSI norm that corresponds to that.)
Glen Barrington
Forum Pro
But I think it does exist in the practical sense. If you can't present a photo the way you want to because the exposure won't let you do so, then you've either over or under exposed that image. And we have most definitely NOT gotten to the point where exposure does not matter.
Impulses
Forum Pro
So true, making certain adjustments on a TN display cab be pretty perilous, specially if it's a large one and you're not dead center. It's kinda sad that display quality of the average $300+ tablet is probably still better than the display quality of the average $700+ laptop.
Paulmorgan
Veteran Member
Yeh I`ve never been too keen on the auto settings for silkypics, Lr or anything else they all have a tendency to bleach the whites, take my colorchecker, white should sit somewhere around 90%, auto tone renders this around 100%, not good.
LearningForeverIHope
Senior Member
Hello Trevor.
You already got good advice from Guy and al. I think that most of the time we tend to crank up the brightness level on our monitors. When I started to print I needed to calibrate my monitor. My X-rite thingy took my brightness from 80%+ to 35%. I had the feeling of going blind. The X-rite monitors the ambient light level and adjust the monitor in consequence. After a couple of days I became completely used to it. I also notice much less eye fatigue.
You could use and Exif module and a histogram module for your browser. I have both on Firefox so, at a right click distance, I can actually verify if the image has its white and black points clipping. This would tell you if it is you monitor which is too bright or them who over-exposed.
Jean
Eric Nepean
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Olymore
Senior Member
I think one of the reasons people prefer brighter/darker images is where they live and grew up.
If you live in England(or in my case even cloudier Scotland ) then you've probably grown up with lower light levels than many parts of the world most of the time and your brain regards that as 'normal'.
Whereas if you grew up/live in the Arizona desert / Australian outback your definition of 'normal' may be different.
In addition age also plays a part.
I think it was Turner who painted some scenes in both early life and when much older. And though nearly identical his later paintings tended to be duller and more subdued as his perception of the world changed as he aged.
Neither of which answers your exposure question.
I would define exposure as the correct amount of light to get the effect in the final image that you require and in that case you can get it wrong and under or over expose.
But there's no definitive way to measure it unless you know the intentions of the photographer.
If you live in England(or in my case even cloudier Scotland ) then you've probably grown up with lower light levels than many parts of the world most of the time and your brain regards that as 'normal'.
Whereas if you grew up/live in the Arizona desert / Australian outback your definition of 'normal' may be different.
In addition age also plays a part.
I think it was Turner who painted some scenes in both early life and when much older. And though nearly identical his later paintings tended to be duller and more subdued as his perception of the world changed as he aged.
Neither of which answers your exposure question.
I would define exposure as the correct amount of light to get the effect in the final image that you require and in that case you can get it wrong and under or over expose.
But there's no definitive way to measure it unless you know the intentions of the photographer.
dulynoted
Senior Member
Thats true. 12 inch 2560x1600 screen thats almost perfectly calibrated on my 700 dollar tablet. 800 dollar laptop has a 720p screen I think. I am using lightroom on the computer and exporting to the tablet for viewing. Crisp!
TN Args
Forum Pro
Well, shoot a grey card, then process it so it is exactly the same tone on print or screen as the real grey card.
Now do it lighter. Over.
Now do it darker. Under.
Agree?
John King
Forum Pro
Yes, Trevor, they do ...
I find that getting everything (including the exposure parameters) as close as I can in-camera saves me a lot of pain. I can't be bothered doing heroic PP anyway, and re-taking the image is almost never an option, even if it's still there to be took ...
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Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
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I find that getting everything (including the exposure parameters) as close as I can in-camera saves me a lot of pain. I can't be bothered doing heroic PP anyway, and re-taking the image is almost never an option, even if it's still there to be took ...
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
.
Please do not embed images from my web site without prior permission
I consider this to be a breach of my copyright.
-- -- --
.
The Camera doth not make the Man (nor Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
.
Galleries: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/v/main-page/
Bird Control Officers on active service.
morepix
Veteran Member
... under / over contrast?
... under / over sharpness?
... under / over sharpness?
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