A7rII crop mode - CZ 16-70 lens makes sense?

zilver · Jun 14, 2015

Hello,

Can someone please tell me what's the resolution for the crop mode of the new A7RII? From my quick calculation of spec sheet seems to be 18mpx.

I carry the A7II (soon to be replaced with the new A7RII) mostly with the 35mm 2.8 but I'm constantly looking at a zoom for some instances where flexibility is needed, I looked at FE24-70 which is too short and size too big, 24-240 which is way too big.

That leaves 16-70 which is great size, 18mpx crop will make that 24-105mm, which should be enough for me for those times when getting the pics is more important that the resolution.

Does this make sense to you guys to use the APS-C lens just simply because I can't find the right FE Zoom lens yet?

I already have another Fuji body so carrying another A6000 is just too cumbersome (I looked at Fuji Zoom but may not work as I need good video with zoom like school activities, etc).

Thanks for any input!

Aasmund G · Jun 14, 2015

zilver said:
Can someone please tell me what's the resolution for the crop mode of the new A7RII? From my quick calculation of spec sheet seems to be 18mpx.

yes, I think 18.5 - 19mpx.

zilver said:
I carry the A7II (soon to be replaced with the new A7RII) mostly with the 35mm 2.8 but I'm constantly looking at a zoom for some instances where flexibility is needed, I looked at FE24-70 which is too short and size too big, 24-240 which is way too big.

That leaves 16-70 which is great size, 18mpx crop will make that 24-105mm, which should be enough for me for those times when getting the pics is more important that the resolution.

Cropping at the long end of the 2470 would make it 24-105 as well. the 2870 would be 28-105.

zilver said:
Does this make sense to you guys to use the APS-C lens just simply because I can't find the right FE Zoom lens yet?

It does not make sense to me. If you can live with 28 at the widest I think the 2870 could be a compromise, otherwise I would imagine the 2470 would be superior in every possible way (except size).

superchalupa · Jun 14, 2015

To state another way: cropping the photo from a 24-70 would be exactly the same as putting on the 16-70, but would give you way more flexibility. The only disadvantage, as you noted, is size is a little larger.

smallLebowski · Jun 14, 2015

zilver said:
Hello,

Can someone please tell me what's the resolution for the crop mode of the new A7RII? From my quick calculation of spec sheet seems to be 18mpx.

I carry the A7II (soon to be replaced with the new A7RII) mostly with the 35mm 2.8 but I'm constantly looking at a zoom for some instances where flexibility is needed, I looked at FE24-70 which is too short and size too big, 24-240 which is way too big.

That leaves 16-70 which is great size, 18mpx crop will make that 24-105mm, which should be enough for me for those times when getting the pics is more important that the resolution.

Does this make sense to you guys to use the APS-C lens just simply because I can't find the right FE Zoom lens yet?

I already have another Fuji body so carrying another A6000 is just too cumbersome (I looked at Fuji Zoom but may not work as I need good video with zoom like school activities, etc).

Thanks for any input!

I would agree with you in any other case, but in this particular one - simple cropping of 24-70 to 105mm will get you same or better IQ easily over 18Mp with 16-70mm. And from 24 to 70mm - without cropping there would simply be no contest with 42Mp. Both lenses cost roughly same, so why invest in crop lens if you have a FF camera? Remember that you can always use FF lens on crop body without sacrificing Mp, while you can't do same with crop lens.

Also, consider for future when you'll be ready for some serious zoom - that with LA-EA3 you can use SAL24-70 SSM F2.8 II or with MB adapter you can use Canon EF 24-70 F2.8 II - either of them will give you IQ similar to primes. Will be heavy though and expensive.

Or if 24-105 is what you really want - then why not go for "cheapo" MB + EF24-105 F4 L Canon? Will give you better IQ and fully utilize your FF sensor. I saw EF24-105 F4 L go for $600 used in mint condition. Add MB price and you'll have a true FF24-105 F4 L on your A7RII for not much more than what 16-70 will cost you. Much much better IQ than with 16-70 in crop mode.

crudman · Jun 14, 2015

Aasmund G said:
Aasmund G said:

That leaves 16-70 which is great size, 18mpx crop will make that 24-105mm, which should be enough for me for those times when getting the pics is more important that the resolution.

Click to expand...

Cropping at the long end of the 2470 would make it 24-105 as well. the 2870 would be 28-105.

He's talking about leaving it in APS-C mode so the 16-70 would act like a permanent 24-105 which would be a nice all rounder. Your method would require really fiddly delving into the menu when you want 71-105 and then changing back again... unless the A7R II has a new short cut key for that crop mode. If you crop it in post then you won't have the correct composition - it would then be a hey I want to zoom in here so I'll crop.

Personally I think he will lose all the FF advantages and question why he would dump 3.2k+ into an "aps-c" camera.

Doubly so since this is a MP beast. Having a crop lens on it which sounds like it's going to be there most of the time really isn't making the most of it. I'd say the exception is video where the super resolution doesn't matter, more depth of field is better/easier, and the zoom range is better.

zilver · Jun 14, 2015

crudman said:
crudman said:

crudman said:

That leaves 16-70 which is great size, 18mpx crop will make that 24-105mm, which should be enough for me for those times when getting the pics is more important that the resolution.

Click to expand...

Cropping at the long end of the 2470 would make it 24-105 as well. the 2870 would be 28-105.

Click to expand...

He's talking about leaving it in APS-C mode so the 16-70 would act like a permanent 24-105 which would be a nice all rounder. Your method would require really fiddly delving into the menu when you want 71-105 and then changing back again... unless the A7R II has a new short cut key for that crop mode. If you crop it in post then you won't have the correct composition - it would then be a hey I want to zoom in here so I'll crop.

Personally I think he will lose all the FF advantages and question why he would dump 3.2k+ into an "aps-c" camera.

Doubly so since this is a MP beast. Having a crop lens on it which sounds like it's going to be there most of the time really isn't making the most of it. I'd say the exception is video where the super resolution doesn't matter, more depth of field is better/easier, and the zoom range is better.

Yes exactly my thoughts, I can leave it Auto instead of messing with the menu.

I won't waste money on full frame and not using it, I have the FE35 2.8 and FE55 1.8 which I use these two lens most of the time, just asking whether 16-70 would use some of the times as 24-105, exactly for your reasoning that 24-70 would be 36-105, losing out wide angle, having a larger lens and would also require constant menu fiddling.

futile32 · Jun 14, 2015

Given your situation I would have to agree with SmallLebowski.

It makes very little sense to invest into APS-C glass if you're buying a FF body of this cost. If your priority is Compactness I'd probably say you're ok doing as you planned.

My advice would be to buy an A6000 second body instead and stay with the FF glass. This will mean you can use the A6000 with the FF glass to get 24 MP shots (instead of 18MP from A7RII) and can use it along side your A7RII which can use your primes for now. At any time you can still use your lens on the A7R too, but it means you don't need to worry about having to sell glass etc.. at a later date.

I also think the 24-70mm has OSS, so the A6000 can make use of the stablization too. Same batteries, very compact size too.

This would probably be my approach.

futile32 · Jun 14, 2015

Aasmund G said:
Aasmund G said:

Can someone please tell me what's the resolution for the crop mode of the new A7RII? From my quick calculation of spec sheet seems to be 18mpx.

Click to expand...

yes, I think 18.5 - 19mpx.

From the DPR Spec sheet, the APS-C crop mode should produce a Resolution of:

5168 x 3448

which is 17,819,264 pixels. So closer to 17.8MP.

Its FF Resolution is listed as:

7952 x 5304

which is 42,177,408 pixels. So 42.17MP (but guess Sony are rounding up to 42.2MP)

Bruce Oudekerk · Jun 14, 2015

I really believe we have entered a brave new world of photography. Its been happening for a while now, especially with the advent of the Nikon D8xx... and now with the A7RII,

Many of us seem to have have forgotten or never knew the agonies of debating over the compromises involved in choosing a 200 speed film vs. 100 or settling for some blown out highlights in the clouds because the sensor just didn't have remotely enough dynamic range to cover that mundane scene..

We've now pretty much gotten to the point that we just expect that with reasonable photographic settings, the camera will do it all with some margin for error. Its debatable when this occurred or even if it occurs at all for some of us but it is certainly true for many.

To me, using the A7RII in APS-C mode is fine when it makes sense to do so. I view it as not diminishing the camera but allowing us to utilize its innate versatility. That's within reason of course and that's where things get really sticky because one man's wisdom is another's folly.

The camera is just a tool and a versatile one at that... especially now and especially with this new A7RII. That 42MP is just part of that tool set...much like the feature set on a car. Of course my analogy only goes so far. I am not advocating putting a trailer hitch on a Lamborghini just because I can but I am saying I don't have to use all its horsepower every time I take the equipment for a spin.

Unless something else comes down the pike, I'm pretty sure I'll be using the Sony e-mount 18-105G on the A7RII for the same reasons the OP hinted at. Is it a compromise? Sure... and a big one. But it is sharp, relatively small, light and doesn't get bigger when zoomed. And I would use it in conjunction with some decent FF glass. Similar FF versatility comes at the price of a lens that weighs twice as much (when you factor in an adaptor ) So, right now, that's where I draw the line. Been there , done that, and don't want to any more.

Bruce

dbm305 · Jun 14, 2015

Bruce Oudekerk said:
I really believe we have entered a brave new world of photography. Its been happening for a while now, especially with the advent of the Nikon D8xx... and now with the A7RII,

Many of us seem to have have forgotten or never knew the agonies of debating over the compromises involved in choosing a 200 speed film vs. 100 or settling for some blown out highlights in the clouds because the sensor just didn't have remotely enough dynamic range to cover that mundane scene..

We've now pretty much gotten to the point that we just expect that with reasonable photographic settings, the camera will do it all with some margin for error. Its debatable when this occurred or even if it occurs at all for some of us but it is certainly true for many.

To me, using the A7RII in APS-C mode is fine when it makes sense to do so. I view it as not diminishing the camera but allowing us to utilize its innate versatility. That's within reason of course and that's where things get really sticky because one man's wisdom is another's folly.

The camera is just a tool and a versatile one at that... especially now and especially with this new A7RII. That 42MP is just part of that tool set...much like the feature set on a car. Of course my analogy only goes so far. I am not advocating putting a trailer hitch on a Lamborghini just because I can but I am saying I don't have to use all its horsepower every time I take the equipment for a spin.

Unless something else comes down the pike, I'm pretty sure I'll be using the Sony e-mount 18-105G on the A7RII for the same reasons the OP hinted at. Is it a compromise? Sure... and a big one. But it is sharp, relatively small, light and doesn't get bigger when zoomed. And I would use it in conjunction with some decent FF glass. Similar FF versatility comes at the price of a lens that weighs twice as much (when you factor in an adaptor ) So, right now, that's where I draw the line. Been there , done that, and don't want to any more.

Bruce

Bruce Oudekerk · Jun 14, 2015

dbm305 said:
Bruce Oudekerk said:

I really believe we have entered a brave new world of photography. Its been happening for a while now, especially with the advent of the Nikon D8xx... and now with the A7RII,

Many of us seem to have have forgotten or never knew the agonies of debating over the compromises involved in choosing a 200 speed film vs. 100 or settling for some blown out highlights in the clouds because the sensor just didn't have remotely enough dynamic range to cover that mundane scene..

We've now pretty much gotten to the point that we just expect that with reasonable photographic settings, the camera will do it all with some margin for error. Its debatable when this occurred or even if it occurs at all for some of us but it is certainly true for many.

To me, using the A7RII in APS-C mode is fine when it makes sense to do so. I view it as not diminishing the camera but allowing us to utilize its innate versatility. That's within reason of course and that's where things get really sticky because one man's wisdom is another's folly.

The camera is just a tool and a versatile one at that... especially now and especially with this new A7RII. That 42MP is just part of that tool set...much like the feature set on a car. Of course my analogy only goes so far. I am not advocating putting a trailer hitch on a Lamborghini just because I can but I am saying I don't have to use all its horsepower every time I take the equipment for a spin.

Unless something else comes down the pike, I'm pretty sure I'll be using the Sony e-mount 18-105G on the A7RII for the same reasons the OP hinted at. Is it a compromise? Sure... and a big one. But it is sharp, relatively small, light and doesn't get bigger when zoomed. And I would use it in conjunction with some decent FF glass. Similar FF versatility comes at the price of a lens that weighs twice as much (when you factor in an adaptor ) So, right now, that's where I draw the line. Been there , done that, and don't want to any more.

Bruce

Click to expand...

zilver · Jun 14, 2015

Bruce Oudekerk said:
While we are on the topic of using a walk-around APS-C solution, there are some possible alternatives in FF that offer similar reach to my proposed E 18-105 and more versatility than using the 2x-7x something in FF talked about here. There's the FE 24-240 superzoom, the old Minolta 28-135 & LA-EA4, and the Canon or Sigma EF 24-105 with Metabones or its ilk. To be honest, I don't think any will be much better than the E18-105 @ 18MP and each one, as a solution, is much heavier... double the weight. That's a killer for ME.

Bruce

--
http://www.pbase.com/misterpixel

Yes same here.

zilver · Jun 14, 2015

using the same APS-C lens, would the A7RII give a cleaner image at high ISO compared to say A6000?

futile32 · Jun 14, 2015

zilver said:
using the same APS-C lens, would the A7RII give a cleaner image at high ISO compared to say A6000?

Well, the A7RII is less dense than the A6000 and also has BSI (which is yet to show anything but could provide a stop or so better low light). The facts are you will get a 18MP image instead of a 24MP one, and yes in theory it will be cleaner (at least because its less MP).

dcolak · Oct 15, 2015

By the way, APS-C lenses on A7RII cover 24MP image circle, with no vignetting at all!

When using APS-C lenses you get 6000x4000 images with no vignetting at all!

Now that's awesome

Too bad A7RII does not offer the 1.3 crop mode that would give clean 24MP pictures with all APS-C lenses.

PVCdroid · Oct 19, 2015

The 16-70 does a great job with video and super 35 4kk crop shooting..

Luis Fonseca · Oct 22, 2015

Hello,

zilver said:
I carry the A7II (soon to be replaced with the new A7RII) mostly with the 35mm 2.8 but I'm constantly looking at a zoom for some instances where flexibility is needed, I looked at FE24-70 which is too short and size too big, 24-240 which is way too big.

Does the 426g and a lenght of 95mm of the FE24-70 make that much difference against the 308g and 75mm of the 16-70?

zilver said:
That leaves 16-70 which is great size, 18mpx crop will make that 24-105mm, which should be enough for me for those times when getting the pics is more important that the resolution

zilver said:
Does this make sense to you guys to use the APS-C lens just simply because I can't find the right FE Zoom lens yet?

It only makes sence if you don't want to use Smart zoom that would be the same as using and APS-C lens like the 16-70 or if those 116 g and 20 mm make a significant difference.

Otherwise you will lose image quality between 24-70mm (35mm equivalent) without any benefit.

Regards,

Luis

Philnw2 · Oct 22, 2015

Bruce Oudekerk said:
I really believe we have entered a brave new world of photography. Its been happening for a while now, especially with the advent of the Nikon D8xx... and now with the A7RII,

Many of us seem to have have forgotten or never knew the agonies of debating over the compromises involved in choosing a 200 speed film vs. 100 or settling for some blown out highlights in the clouds because the sensor just didn't have remotely enough dynamic range to cover that mundane scene..

We've now pretty much gotten to the point that we just expect that with reasonable photographic settings, the camera will do it all with some margin for error. Its debatable when this occurred or even if it occurs at all for some of us but it is certainly true for many.

To me, using the A7RII in APS-C mode is fine when it makes sense to do so. I view it as not diminishing the camera but allowing us to utilize its innate versatility. That's within reason of course and that's where things get really sticky because one man's wisdom is another's folly.

The camera is just a tool and a versatile one at that... especially now and especially with this new A7RII. That 42MP is just part of that tool set...much like the feature set on a car. Of course my analogy only goes so far. I am not advocating putting a trailer hitch on a Lamborghini just because I can but I am saying I don't have to use all its horsepower every time I take the equipment for a spin.

Unless something else comes down the pike, I'm pretty sure I'll be using the Sony e-mount 18-105G on the A7RII for the same reasons the OP hinted at. Is it a compromise? Sure... and a big one. But it is sharp, relatively small, light and doesn't get bigger when zoomed. And I would use it in conjunction with some decent FF glass. Similar FF versatility comes at the price of a lens that weighs twice as much (when you factor in an adaptor ) So, right now, that's where I draw the line. Been there , done that, and don't want to any more.

Bruce

superchalupa · Oct 22, 2015

Philnw2 said:
Bruce Oudekerk said:

I really believe we have entered a brave new world of photography. Its been happening for a while now, especially with the advent of the Nikon D8xx... and now with the A7RII,

Many of us seem to have have forgotten or never knew the agonies of debating over the compromises involved in choosing a 200 speed film vs. 100 or settling for some blown out highlights in the clouds because the sensor just didn't have remotely enough dynamic range to cover that mundane scene..

We've now pretty much gotten to the point that we just expect that with reasonable photographic settings, the camera will do it all with some margin for error. Its debatable when this occurred or even if it occurs at all for some of us but it is certainly true for many.

To me, using the A7RII in APS-C mode is fine when it makes sense to do so. I view it as not diminishing the camera but allowing us to utilize its innate versatility. That's within reason of course and that's where things get really sticky because one man's wisdom is another's folly.

The camera is just a tool and a versatile one at that... especially now and especially with this new A7RII. That 42MP is just part of that tool set...much like the feature set on a car. Of course my analogy only goes so far. I am not advocating putting a trailer hitch on a Lamborghini just because I can but I am saying I don't have to use all its horsepower every time I take the equipment for a spin.

Unless something else comes down the pike, I'm pretty sure I'll be using the Sony e-mount 18-105G on the A7RII for the same reasons the OP hinted at. Is it a compromise? Sure... and a big one. But it is sharp, relatively small, light and doesn't get bigger when zoomed. And I would use it in conjunction with some decent FF glass. Similar FF versatility comes at the price of a lens that weighs twice as much (when you factor in an adaptor ) So, right now, that's where I draw the line. Been there , done that, and don't want to any more.

Bruce

Click to expand...

Zenjitsuman · Oct 22, 2015

I have been buying lenses getting ready for purchasing the A7rII. I spent a lot of time thinking of what I needed for stills and for video.

For both I could use the Sony 18-200mm power zoom lens that was originally designed for Super 35mm Sony Pro video cameras. It was designed to cover a 1.4x crop factor instead of the Apsc crop which is 1.5x. So the lens for photos should be a bit less vignetting in the corners too on photos. The power zoom and OSS make this a really great 11x zoom lens with stabilization.

I also got the Sony 10-18mm which can do FF well from 12mm to 17mm and on Apsc mode is a 15- 27mm EFL. A great video UWA. The 2 lenses together cover 12mm all the way up to almost 300mm. For travel they are compact and light.

A7rII crop mode - CZ 16-70 lens makes sense?

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