Must have been the stupid Fuji camera!

Duane Miles

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Ok, made ya look. ;^) Just looking for some constructive critisim here folks, because I don't seem to be getting it. To see my entry, # 92.

http://www.fujimugs.com/challenge/show_entries.php?challenge=9&entry=596

I'm looking for constructive critisim on what the problem is. I spent a lot of time on this, commented on every entry, checked past winners, etc. Please take a little time to help me out. Don't worry about offending me! If you think it, say it!

I think perhaps I concentrated to much on the theme, at the cost of other elements.

Or maybe I should just Ebay my 602 and use quick snaps. I get those for free! ;^)
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
 
Duane

FWIW I must say that my flabber was truly gasted when I saw that you came in at 92, but in the end that's all part of the mystery of these things!

Anyhow you can now have another go before you throw out the camera:-)

Mike
 
Ok, made ya look. ;^) Just looking for some constructive critisim
here folks, because I don't seem to be getting it. To see my entry,
  1. 92.
http://www.fujimugs.com/challenge/show_entries.php?challenge=9&entry=596

I'm looking for constructive critisim on what the problem is. I
spent a lot of time on this, commented on every entry, checked past
winners, etc. Please take a little time to help me out. Don't worry
about offending me! If you think it, say it!

I think perhaps I concentrated to much on the theme, at the cost of
other elements.

Or maybe I should just Ebay my 602 and use quick snaps. I get those
for free! ;^)
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
Hello Duane,

For me it was the subject, not the quality of the photo. It just didn't interest me. The photo, itself, was very well shot. I like that and appreciated the skill involved. However, to me, it looked like a professional product photo. Perhaps if only the nozzles(?) had been shot, it would not appear to be the familiar object. In fact, I remember using my hands to try different crops, but the pattern of the nozzles didn't fit any crop size.

Keep up the good work. Believe me, I know what it feels like!

Timothy Dunnigan
http://www.pbase.com/tdunnigan/
Fuji S602z, Epson 1280
 
Hello Duane,

For me it was the subject, not the quality of the photo. It just
didn't interest me. The photo, itself, was very well shot. I like
that and appreciated the skill involved. However, to me, it looked
like a professional product photo. Perhaps if only the nozzles(?)
had been shot, it would not appear to be the familiar object. In
fact, I remember using my hands to try different crops, but the
pattern of the nozzles didn't fit any crop size.

Keep up the good work. Believe me, I know what it feels like!

Timothy Dunnigan
http://www.pbase.com/tdunnigan/
Fuji S602z, Epson 1280
I have a similar thought to Timothy's. To me, the photo looked more like one shower head than a repetition of the nozzles. I, too, think a closer crop would've fit the subject better.

Dan

--
-- Dan
http://www.fujimugs.com
http://www.pbase.com/dan_wolf
 
Duane

FWIW I must say that my flabber was truly gasted when I saw that
you came in at 92, but in the end that's all part of the mystery of
these things!
Hi Duane --

I agree with Mike here. I was surprised that I had to scroll so far down to get to your entry. But, I also agree with Mike's comment on your entry that it was lacking in EMOTIONAL content, and therefore even though it was a nicely done pic, it just didn't have that extra oomph to get it in to folks' top ten lists.

By way of example, there was a pic in the '3' challenge of an English electrical three-prong plug. It was a beauty of a macro shot that I liked very much (and it was done very well), but it was such a mundane subject -- and wholly bereft of any emotion, IMO -- that I couldn't bring it into my top ten (now, if it had been lying in a puddle of water or something... maybe that would have been different... hard to say at this juncture).

Does this make any sense?

hth,
shudder
 
Duane,

Your picture was well exposed but does look a bit like a shower head advert. It didn't stand out there and shout "repetition" to me. This topic isn't easy and as I pointed out on another thread, voters use emotion more than technical excellence to select their favourites.

Good luck with round 2.

Rob
--
Go the whole hog....go 4/3 SCCD 4.....if the price is right;-)
 
Ok, made ya look. ;^) Just looking for some constructive critisim
here folks, because I don't seem to be getting it. To see my entry,
  1. 92.
http://www.fujimugs.com/challenge/show_entries.php?challenge=9&entry=596

I'm looking for constructive critisim on what the problem is. I
spent a lot of time on this, commented on every entry, checked past
winners, etc. Please take a little time to help me out. Don't worry
about offending me! If you think it, say it!

I think perhaps I concentrated to much on the theme, at the cost of
other elements.

Or maybe I should just Ebay my 602 and use quick snaps. I get those
for free! ;^)
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
I don't know that I can guess as to what folks are looking for except there seems to be an emotional aspect to it. I didn't find my pic choices following the leader trends too much. Maybe that part comes from watching the past challenges to have a feel for the "judging biases?"

I'm too new at this to offer much technical advice. What you might try to overcome the tilt would be to use the perspective correcting tools, like you'd use for keystoning in a tlted wide angle architectural shot. That might get out the apparent tilt w/o having to put the camera directly in front and having to deal with the mirroring. I agree that it's hard to figure where voting is going from the comments.
 
Ok, made ya look. ;^) Just looking for some constructive critisim
here folks, because I don't seem to be getting it. To see my entry,
  1. 92.
http://www.fujimugs.com/challenge/show_entries.php?challenge=9&entry=596

I'm looking for constructive critisim on what the problem is. I
spent a lot of time on this, commented on every entry, checked past
winners, etc. Please take a little time to help me out. Don't worry
about offending me! If you think it, say it!

I think perhaps I concentrated to much on the theme, at the cost of
other elements.

Or maybe I should just Ebay my 602 and use quick snaps. I get those
for free! ;^)
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
--
Hi Duane,

I thought your entry was superb..........technically ! but I think I would agree with most of the others who have commented that people tend to vote with their emotions.

Try and use your technical expertise with a subject that will make people laugh, cry go aaaah or even wince! Those are the type they vote for,and with the best will in the world , a Shower Head does'nt really get many people excited.

Best of luck with the next Challenge

Regards
mike533
Mike533
Fuji Finepix S602 Zoom and Vivitar 283
http://www.pbase.com/mike533
p.base supporter
 
a Shower Head
does'nt really get many people excited.

Best of luck with the next Challenge

Regards
mike533
Mike533
Fuji Finepix S602 Zoom and Vivitar 283
http://www.pbase.com/mike533
p.base supporter
Sorry for the delay getting back to you guys, I had to do some actual work. :^( This was exactly what I was looking for. It's just I was racking my brain for a subject, and then I took a shower. And yes, I got way to excited about a shower head. To be honest, I took about 50 - 60 pictures of this thing. And then generated a bunch more with PSP7.

I didn't take anymore pictures of anything else for this challenge. Mistake? Ya think? I just thought this was so technically superior to my "Road" pic, which was came in at 27. Anyway the feedback seems to confirm this.

Thanks! Onward and (gosh I hope) upward!
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
 
Ok, made ya look. ;^) Just looking for some constructive critisim
here folks, because I don't seem to be getting it. To see my entry,
  1. 92.
http://www.fujimugs.com/challenge/show_entries.php?challenge=9&entry=596

I'm looking for constructive critisim on what the problem is. I
spent a lot of time on this, commented on every entry, checked past
winners, etc. Please take a little time to help me out. Don't worry
about offending me! If you think it, say it!

I think perhaps I concentrated to much on the theme, at the cost of
other elements.

Or maybe I should just Ebay my 602 and use quick snaps. I get those
for free! ;^)
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
--I have submited 2 photos each month for 1 year to our Camera Club n only come 1st once...Last or thereabouts for rest....Same with Magazines,nowhere near..... but i'll never give up...

Nothing wrong with your shot, It just wasn't the kind of shot most peeps vote for....My top No.1 vote came way below the top 10....But the Winner n a few others were in my Top 10.....It all depends what appeals to the Voter....And how many like it....Seeing as its nearly always the same People Voteing, If you're a clever person, you might be able to work out what kind of Images they Like/Prefer.....
Good Luck in the Next One.......Repitition All Over again...Mmmmmmmm..
MrScary (DennisR)
Swansea, Wales. UK

http://www.pbase.com/dennisr
http://community.webshots.com/user/mrscarecrow
http://digiden.photoshare.co.nz
 
Technically excellent shot.

I think either filling the frame with the nozzles i.e. cropping to the point where the edges of the shower head are not in the pic OR

a different perspective more angled down and flat to shoot the nozzles standing UP off the surface (if this was possible)

Still, a nicely done photo. I voted for more "still" types of repetition vs the naturally occuring ones so I like this one. JMO.

Chris
 
Duane,

I have been to busy with work to enter in the last couple of contests but still follow them. The forum has a great bunch of people with some real talent. But looking at your subject matter I would have shot it dead on from the edge in a macro setting to get repitition with the nozzles, rows, angles etc and playing with depth of field. This may have added interest to the object.
Scott
http://www.pbase.com/millersm
 
Duane,
I have been to busy with work to enter in the last couple of
contests but still follow them. The forum has a great bunch of
people with some real talent. But looking at your subject matter I
would have shot it dead on from the edge in a macro setting to get
repitition with the nozzles, rows, angles etc and playing with
depth of field. This may have added interest to the object.
Scott
http://www.pbase.com/millersm
This is exactly what I was looking for! I was so concerned with lighting I had it on my back deck at differnt times of day, in my front driveway at different times of day, (back is west, front is east) and set up a makeshift studio in my unfinished basement. I never thought of that! Macro, with lighting from the side to maybe cast a shadow, and just a portion of the nozzels. Thanks again, but there's no stinking way I'm re-entering a shower head. Maybe I'll play around with it and post some in the forum.
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
 
Ok, made ya look. ;^) Just looking for some constructive critisim
here folks, because I don't seem to be getting it. To see my entry,
  1. 92.
http://www.fujimugs.com/challenge/show_entries.php?challenge=9&entry=596

I'm looking for constructive critisim on what the problem is.
Duane its the voting system .... we had an enormous discussion on this some time back ....

Your image could have been no 11 on everyones list ... apart that is for someone who had it at No5 ....

And that would be the result ...

Points are only awarded by this system to photos which people rank in their top 10 for whatever reason ...

That means each person only awarded points to 10% of the images ...

Or .... for each person 90% of the images in the challenge got null points ... none at all ..

Read that second way .. its a wonder that more images do not end up with zero points .. more often ..

Dont worry about it .... yours was a well made image ... for some reason people did not pick yours ... in their top 10 this time .. each person will likely have different reasons .... and you will not be able to please them alll ..... you might however just drive yourself up the wall if you do try to :-) and then your pic taking would no longer be fun !!

Just an opinion .. :-)

--
Mark
 
Duane its the voting system .... we had an enormous discussion on
this some time back ....

Your image could have been no 11 on everyones list ... apart that
is for someone who had it at No5 ....
MOM was that you mom? ;^)
And that would be the result ...

Points are only awarded by this system to photos which people rank
in their top 10 for whatever reason ...

That means each person only awarded points to 10% of the images ...

Or .... for each person 90% of the images in the challenge got null
points ... none at all ..

Read that second way .. its a wonder that more images do not end up
with zero points .. more often ..

Dont worry about it .... yours was a well made image ... for some
reason people did not pick yours ... in their top 10 this time ..
each person will likely have different reasons .... and you will
not be able to please them alll ..... you might however just drive
yourself up the wall if you do try to :-) and then your pic taking
would no longer be fun !!

Just an opinion .. :-)

--
Mark
Points well made and well taken. I did mention in a thread some time back that wouldn't it be nice as the number of entries is growing, if we could vote for 2 in each of 10 slots. After I thought about it for a while I thought that's pretty radical, not sure what the result would be.

Anywho back on the medication and I'm much better now. And I know I don't mention it nearly enough, big thanks to Dan for all the time and effort he pours in to this. So that those of us out here with pitiful little lives have a reason to get up in the morning.

--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
 
By way of example, there was a pic in the '3' challenge of an
English electrical three-prong plug.
That was my plug photo. Thank you for the praise about it's technical merits. I must admit I've never thought too much about putting emotion into a shot of such an object so this is not what put me off Duane's image.

I liked the sharpness and beauty of the shower head itself, but overall the image was just a bit too symmetrical and I thought that there was too little contrast between the shower head and the background. I think it would have been more appealing had the backdrop been a darker colour and the shower head placed at a slight angle.

I'm sorry I never got around to leaving a comment on it during voting.

--
Steve Crane
http://craniac.afraid.org
 
Ok, made ya look. ;^) Just looking for some constructive critisim
here folks, because I don't seem to be getting it. To see my entry,
  1. 92.
http://www.fujimugs.com/challenge/show_entries.php?challenge=9&entry=596

I'm looking for constructive critisim on what the problem is. I
spent a lot of time on this, commented on every entry, checked past
winners, etc.
Commenting on others won't add any votes to yours. And what were you looking to pick up from the past winners? Tips to help you realize your own vision, or were you trying to get some sense of what seems to be popular?
Please take a little time to help me out. Don't worry
about offending me! If you think it, say it!
Look at the thumbnail version of it. Does that really look interesting to you? I very nearly didn't bother to look at the large version because I could tell from the small version that it was a simple showerhead photographed centered and flat. All the pattern and composition was inherent in the showerhead design itself rather than being the vision and work of the photographer. In the large version, I could see that focus, color, exposure, etc. were all superb, and the image has a wonderful poster graphic feel to it, but you didn't do anything with the repetition except capture it--albeit attractively. (If you ever want to go into commercial product photography, you should definitely include this one in your portfolio. But be sure to make it large.)

The thumbnail didn't do justice to the detail quality in the larger version, but on the other hand it didn't lie about the shortcomings of the overall composition either--too simple, too flat, and too much of the real credit goes to some industrial designer somewhere.

If I had to rank all the entries, I definitely would not rank your entry anywhere near as low as it wound up, but even having given yours a hard second look, I don't think I would have bumped any of my favorites for yours. But I'll also say this, if your entry was exactly the picture you wanted to produce, then you should be happy with it no matter what anyone else thinks--unless, of course, you do want a career in commercial product photography.

Trog
 
Commenting on others won't add any votes to yours.
I took the time to comment on every entry because I'm genuinely interested enough in what folks send in to look at all of them, so why not leave a comment. I appreciate every comment I get. I know it couldn't add points, no one knows which entry mine is at that point anyway. I guess the only reason I mentioned it here was to encourage people to take a little time and give some feedback if they would care to.

I've seen time and time again people saying "oh I could never comment, I'm no expert". Well if you vote, I think that qualifies you to comment. You are just letting the person know what you liked or disliked. Offering advice is not mandatory, neither is accepting it. If Dan said experts only can comment, then I wouldn't.
And what were
you looking to pick up from the past winners? Tips to help you
realize your own vision, or were you trying to get some sense of
what seems to be popular?
Exactly. I was looking to see what folks liked in general. And I read the comments people left for the winners. I definately was not looking for a "template" if you will. That would never work.
Please take a little time to help me out. Don't worry
about offending me! If you think it, say it!
Look at the thumbnail version of it. Does that really look
interesting to you? I very nearly didn't bother to look at the
large version because I could tell from the small version that it
was a simple showerhead photographed centered and flat. All the
pattern and composition was inherent in the showerhead design
itself rather than being the vision and work of the photographer.
In the large version, I could see that focus, color, exposure, etc.
were all superb, and the image has a wonderful poster graphic feel
to it, but you didn't do anything with the repetition except
capture it--albeit attractively. (If you ever want to go into
commercial product photography, you should definitely include this
one in your portfolio. But be sure to make it large.)
Point well taken.
The thumbnail didn't do justice to the detail quality in the larger
version, but on the other hand it didn't lie about the shortcomings
of the overall composition either--too simple, too flat, and too
much of the real credit goes to some industrial designer somewhere.

If I had to rank all the entries, I definitely would not rank your
entry anywhere near as low as it wound up, but even having given
yours a hard second look, I don't think I would have bumped any of
my favorites for yours. But I'll also say this, if your entry was
exactly the picture you wanted to produce, then you should be happy
with it no matter what anyone else thinks--unless, of course, you
do want a career in commercial product photography.

Trog
Thanks very much. What you just gave me is information I can't get anywhere else. I think I've learned a thing or two in the last couple of months. I've had an interest in photography that started some 30 years ago. But except for what underwater video I've done, it's been dormant for probably the past 15 years.

I bought this Fuji camera thinking it would be great to have around as my nieces grow up, vacation, etc. And I could actually produce color prints of higher quality than I did in a darkroom in high school.

But from the time I pulled this camera out of the box it sparked an interest that I haven't had since I got my first 35mm back in the 9th grade. By coincedince it also was a Fuji. That was TOTALLY unexpected. And then I found this forum, and anyone can see why a person would stay here with all these great folks. And the challenges, well that's a great way to have fun with this fantastic camera. But again this was a total shock to me. I expected to use it a few times a year, but I take it with me everywhere I go.

Now I know this will come as a shock to everone here, ;-) but I've never competed in for lack of a better phrase, photo contests. If they needed a picture of the baseball team or the chorus, they lined up and I took the picture, developed it and turned it in. And it was never challenging to capture high school kids doing something stupid in the hallways. And EVERYONE was ready to do whatever it took to get their picture in the school newspaper or yearbook. I loved it.

I'm still not sure if your tounge was in your cheek when you talked about industrial product photography. I mean I guess there are photographers who do that kind of work but it sounds boring. But then so does taking pictures of kids at KMart. My chosen field is medical imaging. I can look at an xray image be it video or film, analog or digital, and tell you right away with great detail and accuracy what the problem is, if any. Not bragging I've just been doing it a long time. I've always been a "techie". While I've taken my share of photography classes and read a lot, I have always been better at telling you how the camera works than how to use it to produce a good picture.

This is just a new adventure for me. Maybe the skills I lack can't be learned. It's possible that it's a God given talent that I don't posess. If so thats fine. But I would like to take a shot at it, and thanks again for your help.
--
Duane Miles, Fuji Medical
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/13miles/root
 
Commenting on others won't add any votes to yours.
I took the time to comment on every entry because I'm genuinely
interested enough in what folks send in to look at all of them, so
why not leave a comment. I appreciate every comment I get. I know
it couldn't add points, no one knows which entry mine is at that
point anyway. I guess the only reason I mentioned it here was to
encourage people to take a little time and give some feedback if
they would care to.
That's certainly fair. It was the fact of listing it with all the work you put into this challenge that gave it an unintended meaning.
I've seen time and time again people saying "oh I could never
comment, I'm no expert". Well if you vote, I think that qualifies
you to comment.
I think a lot of people who say that are hiding behind modesty to avoid hurting other's feelings. I've noticed most people are plenty forthcoming with opinions about athletes, entertainers, politicians and other public figures without having any firsthand experience of what they do. I'm one of the ones who tends not to leave comments in order to avoid hurting people's feelings, but at least I come right out and say that's why. And I'll make exceptions for people who profess to want brutal frankness.
You are just letting the person know what you liked
or disliked.
Most people can apprehend that they like or dislike something, but not everyone can understand or communicate the reasons why they like or dislike something. I can understand why some people might think it useless to say "I like that picture" or "I don't like that picture" if they can't explain why.

I like the friendly atmosphere of the Fuji challenges, so I don't complain if people wish to be sparing of the feelings of others. There is some benefit from the comments and criticism, but I think the challenges are mostly to focus the participants on an assignment, and to inspire people to get out and shoot.
And what were
you looking to pick up from the past winners? Tips to help you
realize your own vision, or were you trying to get some sense of
what seems to be popular?
Exactly. I was looking to see what folks liked in general.
Actually, I meant that as a strong "or". The first implies you were most looking to satisfy yourself, the second implies you were most looking to satisfy others. If the latter, that may do little to develop your own sense of vision, but on the other hand, it might be valuable if you are looking to go into merchandizing.

(snip)
I'm still not sure if your tounge was in your cheek when you talked
about industrial product photography. I mean I guess there are
photographers who do that kind of work but it sounds boring.
I don't know if it would be boring, but from what I know of commercial product photography, it seems like it would be really hard to do well. A good product photo needs to be clear, but idealized, but not obviously or distractingly so; will have a setting, mood, and artistic style that is appropriate to the product; and will satisfy the widely divergent priorities of the client, the client's customers, and sometimes an art director or ad agency. I suspect it's like trying to produce images that will do well in several challenges simultaneously.
My chosen field is
medical imaging. I can look at an xray image be it video or film,
analog or digital, and tell you right away with great detail and
accuracy what the problem is, if any. Not bragging I've just been
doing it a long time. I've always been a "techie". While I've taken
my share of photography classes and read a lot, I have always been
better at telling you how the camera works than how to use it to
produce a good picture.
Again, it isn't that your entry in this challenge was not a good picture, it just wasn't one of the most compelling responses to the specific terms of this challenge.

And is it that you have good pictures in mind but don't know how to create them, or is it that you feel you don't know what makes for a good picture in the first place?
This is just a new adventure for me.
Life is like that.
Maybe the skills I lack can't
be learned.
If they are skills, they can be learned.
It's possible that it's a God given talent that I don't
posess. If so thats fine. But I would like to take a shot at it,
and thanks again for your help.
You can always count on me to be harsh and critical.

Trog
 

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