Sony Vegas rendering speed

Natural Studio · Oct 11, 2015

Hi,

I'm shooting very long, 8-24 hours relaxing videos in nature, for example:

8 hours relaxing nature sounds in forest

After editing in Sony Vegas, the rendering takes almost forever. I use only color-grading, there are no other effects. I have a Core i7 and 16GB RAM, but the rendering takes 24-120 hours if I use MainConcept AVC codec.

I tried another method, but it needs two steps:

1. Using MainConcept MPEG2 codec at 60,000,000 kbps bitrate from Vegas. It results a 190-220 GB file. It is much more faster, lasts 'only' 8-24 hours.
2. Re-encode the footage in Handbrake or AviDemux, because max uploadable size to Youtube is 128 GB. I use H.264 codec, 2 pass encoding, avg. bitrate 9 mbps.

Could you recommend me a simplier method without using an external encoder?

Thanks.

DJohnny · Oct 11, 2015

Try Sony AVC? Main concept has not been updated in 5 years or so and does not have GPU support. Sony AVC should be 2x faster or so

lancespring · Oct 12, 2015

What release is it?

It sounds like you maybe should upgrade your software.

.

Natural Studio · Oct 12, 2015

DJohnny said:
Try Sony AVC? Main concept has not been updated in 5 years or so and does not have GPU support. Sony AVC should be 2x faster or so

Thanks, I tried that, but there are no VBR and 2 pass encoding options, so I got too large files to upload.

Natural Studio · Oct 12, 2015

lancespring said:
What release is it?

It sounds like you maybe should upgrade your software.

.

I use Sony Vegas Pro 12, as far as I know, it is up to date.

lancespring · Oct 12, 2015

Natural Studio said:
lancespring said:

What release is it?

It sounds like you maybe should upgrade your software.

.

Click to expand...

I use Sony Vegas Pro 12, as far as I know, it is up to date.

.

Well, I am at a loss to give you specific advice, as I do not use Vegas myself.

But I would be shocked if it does not have a H.264 MP4 export option that offers greater compression. And you should be able to fine tune your export bitrate too. Using a 60 Mbps export will most definitely generate huge files.

Heck, even with Adobe's cheap consumer software, I can choose H.264 and customize my export bitrate to the exact amount that I want. If professional video editing software like Vegas Pro cannot do that, then I would find that to be quite shocking.

We used to have some users here that talked about Vegas Pro. Perhaps you should try posting in an online forum that is devoted to the Vegas Pro software, as I don't see any Vegas users trying to help you here.

.

apekkpul · Oct 13, 2015

Check if your processor support Intel Quick Sync Video (HW acceleration). If yes then use Sony AVC codec with Automatic or Quick Sync Video (speed) settings.

I had it working in Windows 8.1 but when I upgraded my PC to Windows 10, the functionality disappeared.

osv · Oct 13, 2015

DJohnny said:
Try Sony AVC? Main concept has not been updated in 5 years or so and does not have GPU support.

the mainconcept plugin in sony vegas 12 has options for both cuda and opencl.

here is the mainconcept encode window in vegas pro 11, it doesn't give you the choice between the two, like vegas pro 12 does, but it does give the choice for gpu assist or not: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/gpu_power_in_vegas_pro_11

cuda/opencl both support cpu-assist, but the fact that the mainconcept encoder in vegas pro 11 gives you the choice for gpu-assist shows that gpu-assist is supported by the encoder.

the last time that i looked, vegas pro didn't have dual-gpu card support, which sucks.

osv · Oct 13, 2015

lancespring said:
Natural Studio said:

lancespring said:

What release is it?

It sounds like you maybe should upgrade your software.

.

Click to expand...

I use Sony Vegas Pro 12, as far as I know, it is up to date.

Click to expand...

.

Well, I am at a loss to give you specific advice, as I do not use Vegas myself.

But I would be shocked if it does not have a H.264 MP4 export option that offers greater compression. And you should be able to fine tune your export bitrate too. Using a 60 Mbps export will most definitely generate huge files.

Heck, even with Adobe's cheap consumer software, I can choose H.264 and customize my export bitrate to the exact amount that I want. If professional video editing software like Vegas Pro cannot do that, then I would find that to be quite shocking.

vegas pro does indeed do that, see the link i posted above... if he's not tweaking the overall bitrate to shrink the file size down, it should indeed be implemented.

the option for vbr is what shrinks the upload file size down over the same fixed bitrate, which is why he wants it... two-pass encoding improves the pq, vbr won't do that.

there are single-pass encoders that use a two-pass type of technology, but it's done in one pass, and some people claim that it's just as good as the older two-pass technology.

--
dan

osv · Oct 13, 2015

Natural Studio said:
Hi,

I'm shooting very long, 8-24 hours relaxing videos in nature, for example:

8 hours relaxing nature sounds in forest

After editing in Sony Vegas, the rendering takes almost forever. I use only color-grading, there are no other effects. I have a Core i7 and 16GB RAM, but the rendering takes 24-120 hours if I use MainConcept AVC codec.

I tried another method, but it needs two steps:

1. Using MainConcept MPEG2 codec at 60,000,000 kbps bitrate from Vegas. It results a 190-220 GB file. It is much more faster, lasts 'only' 8-24 hours.

inefficient garbage pq, never use mpeg2 for anything other than sd dvds.

Natural Studio said:
2. Re-encode the footage in Handbrake or AviDemux, because max uploadable size to Youtube is 128 GB. I use H.264 codec, 2 pass encoding, avg. bitrate 9 mbps.

so you are first generating a giant intermediate file, that those encoders then encode? inefficient.

i used to use the debug frameserver out of vegas, to export sequential frames into procoder, because it had the best mpeg2 encoder, but i'm not sure if the debug frameserver supports handbrake or avidemux, you'd have to google it.

that would allow you to avoid the giant intermediate file, but i'm skeptical that it would be any faster.

color tweaking is hard enough on any encoder, but if you are re-sizing the frame size, it will kill your encoding times.

in other words, if you shot in 1080p or 1080i, you should be exporting in 1080p.

--
dan

DJohnny · Oct 13, 2015

I see no difference in rendering when I turn off GPU rendering or enable it. Also, when monitoring my components, GPU is basically idle while rendering. I think it has CUDA support for GTX2xx and possibly GTX4xx and AMD HD6xxx & HD5xxx. I think both of my GPUs are not supported as Mainconcept has been out of business for ages.

Sony's AVC codec gives my GPU about 40% utilization.

DJohnny · Oct 13, 2015

Natural Studio said:
DJohnny said:

Try Sony AVC? Main concept has not been updated in 5 years or so and does not have GPU support. Sony AVC should be 2x faster or so

Click to expand...

Thanks, I tried that, but there are no VBR and 2 pass encoding options, so I got too large files to upload.

File size should not be affected. I believe Sony AVC uses ABR method i.e. single pass variable bitrate. multi-pass can be better for highly complex footage (fast action/lots of movement) but the difference should be negligible.

For file size, to be below 128GB, use 32mbps or lower bitrate. At this bitrate CBR would be preferred to increase speed. Actually, even at 16mbps, CBR should be fine for HD.

Your rendering should be somewhere around 24 hours for 8 hours of HD footage. Are you using any opacity reduction anywhere for a second track? Opacity takes a long time to render.

edit: I apologize, I missed the part about 8mbps. Just try Sony AVC for a small segment compared to mainconcept and compare the quality. Set the Sony to 8000000 and you will get the same file size as handbrake. Quality should be better than your alternate method since you are not losing information encoding to mpeg2 and then again to h.264

osv · Oct 13, 2015

DJohnny said:
I see no difference in rendering when I turn off GPU rendering or enable it. Also, when monitoring my components, GPU is basically idle while rendering. I think it has CUDA support for GTX2xx and possibly GTX4xx and AMD HD6xxx & HD5xxx. I think both of my GPUs are not supported as Mainconcept has been out of business for ages.

mainconcept has been bought and sold several times, but i don't think that it's out of business: http://mainconcept.com/

how are you monitoring the gpu utilization? i use gpu-z

DJohnny said:
Sony's AVC codec gives my GPU about 40% utilization.

the entire video card vs. gpu-assist thing has been going on for years, here are people griping about the sony avc codec not being supported:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showmessage.asp?messageid=914662

that Vegas2Handbrake thing sounds like the modern version of debug frameserver, check it out.

osv · Oct 13, 2015

DJohnny said:
Natural Studio said:

DJohnny said:

Try Sony AVC? Main concept has not been updated in 5 years or so and does not have GPU support. Sony AVC should be 2x faster or so

Click to expand...

Thanks, I tried that, but there are no VBR and 2 pass encoding options, so I got too large files to upload.

Click to expand...

File size should not be affected.

the differences in file size between cbr vs. vbr are significant, and his vids are 8 hours long.

cbr isn't really an option.

DJohnny · Oct 13, 2015

osv said:
DJohnny said:

I see no difference in rendering when I turn off GPU rendering or enable it. Also, when monitoring my components, GPU is basically idle while rendering. I think it has CUDA support for GTX2xx and possibly GTX4xx and AMD HD6xxx & HD5xxx. I think both of my GPUs are not supported as Mainconcept has been out of business for ages.

Click to expand...

mainconcept has been bought and sold several times, but i don't think that it's out of business: http://mainconcept.com/

how are you monitoring the gpu utilization? i use gpu-z

Normally GPU-z as well, however it does not detect memory utilization properly, so sometimes I use hwinfo. I think Main Concept has been abandoned since purchased by Sonic. Sonic then being purchased by Rovi and Rovi doing nothing but licensing buggy/unfinished software. Perhaps there is some development, but I think with H.265.

Based on their own GPU acceleration page, they only support up to nVidia GTX400 series, but full support is only with GTX200 series! The 200 series cards are very capable, however they are old and difficult to find. I see nothing on their page mentioning OpenCL support...

http://www.mainconcept.com/products/sdks/gpu-acceleration-sdk/cuda-h264avc.html

osv said:
osv said:

Sony's AVC codec gives my GPU about 40% utilization.

Click to expand...

the entire video card vs. gpu-assist thing has been going on for years, here are people griping about the sony avc codec not being supported:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showmessage.asp?messageid=914662

that Vegas2Handbrake thing sounds like the modern version of debug frameserver, check it out.

osv · Oct 14, 2015

DJohnny said:
Based on their own GPU acceleration page, they only support up to nVidia GTX400 series, but full support is only with GTX200 series! The 200 series cards are very capable, however they are old and difficult to find. I see nothing on their page mentioning OpenCL support...

http://www.mainconcept.com/products/sdks/gpu-acceleration-sdk/cuda-h264avc.html

of course opencl is supported, but the list of gpu cards is old as well:

http://www.mainconcept.com/products/sdks/gpu-acceleration-sdk/opencltm-h264avc.html

DJohnny said:
From what I can tell, Vegas does a decent job with my cards rendering out Blu Ray (Sony AVC). If I try Mainconcept, GPU utilization is under 5% but CPU is 100%. This means no GPU assist.

last time i looked, vegas doesn't support dual video cards, which is really irritating.

lack of gpu-assist on new cards was also a big problem with premiere, because of course the plug-ins aren't normally exclusive to just one editing program.

got to check out the frameserver options.

DJohnny · Oct 14, 2015

osv said:
DJohnny said:

Based on their own GPU acceleration page, they only support up to nVidia GTX400 series, but full support is only with GTX200 series! The 200 series cards are very capable, however they are old and difficult to find. I see nothing on their page mentioning OpenCL support...

http://www.mainconcept.com/products/sdks/gpu-acceleration-sdk/cuda-h264avc.html

Click to expand...

of course opencl is supported, but the list of gpu cards is old as well:

http://www.mainconcept.com/products/sdks/gpu-acceleration-sdk/opencltm-h264avc.html

osv said:

From what I can tell, Vegas does a decent job with my cards rendering out Blu Ray (Sony AVC). If I try Mainconcept, GPU utilization is under 5% but CPU is 100%. This means no GPU assist.

Click to expand...

last time i looked, vegas doesn't support dual video cards, which is really irritating.

lack of gpu-assist on new cards was also a big problem with premiere, because of course the plug-ins aren't normally exclusive to just one editing program.

got to check out the frameserver options.

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