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First images of the new Loxia 21mm FE lens!

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spacemn said:
I don't really care about the old Zeiss 2.8/21 ZF2 lens. That lens was probably designed for low res sensors.
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I don't see why you say that, or how you can know the resolution of the sensors the lens was designed for without information, directly or indirectly, from the designers. Modern Zeiss F mount lenses, in general, will perform much better on future sensors with half or a quarter of today's pixel pitches.

The 21/2.8 ZM is a great performer on the a7R:

Zeiss 21mm ZF.2 on a7R - the last word

Like Bo Diddley said, “You can’t judge a book…” The little Leica 24mm Elmar looks like it would be a perfect match for the half-pint Sony a7R, but it has dark corners, corner color shifts, and corner smearing. The hulking Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 Distagon ZF.2 looks comical on the Sony body. The lens is so
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Jim
 
JimKasson said:
spacemn said:
I don't really care about the old Zeiss 2.8/21 ZF2 lens. That lens was probably designed for low res sensors.
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I don't see why you say that, or how you can know the resolution of the sensors the lens was designed for without information, directly or indirectly, from the designers. Modern Zeiss F mount lenses, in general, will perform much better on future sensors with half or a quarter of today's pixel pitches.

The 21/2.8 ZM is a great performer on the a7R:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=4009

Jim
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Snikt228 said:
JimKasson said:
spacemn said:
I don't really care about the old Zeiss 2.8/21 ZF2 lens. That lens was probably designed for low res sensors.
Click to expand...
I don't see why you say that, or how you can know the resolution of the sensors the lens was designed for without information, directly or indirectly, from the designers. Modern Zeiss F mount lenses, in general, will perform much better on future sensors with half or a quarter of today's pixel pitches.

The 21/2.8 ZM is a great performer on the a7R:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=4009

Jim
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B&H pre-order link is up for those ready to pull the trigger.

As I complete my move over to E-mount this is one of the final primes (sans 135) that I'd like to add to the system. At 21mm AF doesn't matter to me so a compact package with presumably stellar IQ is an exciting package. Yey!
 
spacemn said:
sgoldswo said:
spacemn said:
tommiejeep said:
spacemn said:
amonsul said:
a747d7dbb59c4aa0850f0d41f42f9545.jpg

Leaked! The new Loxia 21mm f/2.8 FE lens!
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-leaked-full-new-loxia-21mm-f2-8-fe-lens-specs/
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This is simply amazing and may be a good example of why mirrorless is superior to DSLR's when it comes to wide angle lens designs.

>
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Not the best example to prove your point ;)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082607-REG/nikon_20mm_f_1_8g_fx_lens.html

I bought the Loxia 50mm f2 but will not see it for a couple of weeks until my wife returns from the UK :(

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That's not a good example. I am comparing Zeiss Distagon for mirrorless with Zeiss Distagon for DSLT. Not a plastic and soft wide open and aberration filled Nikon lens with Zeiss ;-)

http://www.lonelyspeck.com/the-most-exciting-lenses-for-astrophotography-at-photokina-2014/
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Yes, it's a good example. Perhaps you are thinking of the poorer AFD lens for F mount that preceded the current G lens. you shouldn't assume every DSLR lens fits into outdated stereotypes. Technology moves on for both mirrorless and DSLR lenses.

The Nikon 20mm F1.8G lens is a very good performer, which shows better resolution than the Zeiss DSLR lens the Milvus is based on (see DXOmark). The only aberrational sin it's guilty of is being softer at F1.8 than the ZF.2 lens is at F2.8 and having a touch of field curvature (like most UWA lenses). Those are deficiencies I can live with, particularly given it has AF.

In summary, I think the Loxia needs to match up to or exceed the Nikon 20mm.
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I don't really care about the old Zeiss 2.8/21 ZF2 lens. That lens was probably designed for low res sensors. The Milvus will be a different beast resolution-wise.

I can see now that the newer Nikon 20mm 1.8G is a good performer.

Comparing the Nikon to the Zeiss Loxia 21 doesn't make sense though, comparing the Milvus 21 and the Loxia 21 does however.
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The Milvus 21mm is the same optical design as the older 21mm ZE/ZF2 design (which in turn was based on a design used for the contax/yashica SLR system), perhaps with new coatings. I'm more interesting in comparing the Loxia to a modern UWA DSLR design than to a warmed over design that was originally used for film SLRs.

That said, if it's decent optically, I would likely get this at some point even if it is broadly in the same ballpark as the Nikon. I've always had more affection for 20/21 rather than 24/25

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JimKasson said:
Snikt228 said:
JimKasson said:
spacemn said:
I don't really care about the old Zeiss 2.8/21 ZF2 lens. That lens was probably designed for low res sensors.
Click to expand...
I don't see why you say that, or how you can know the resolution of the sensors the lens was designed for without information, directly or indirectly, from the designers. Modern Zeiss F mount lenses, in general, will perform much better on future sensors with half or a quarter of today's pixel pitches.

The 21/2.8 ZM is a great performer on the a7R:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=4009

Jim
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spacemn said:
spacemn said:
Snikt228 said:
JimKasson said:
spacemn said:
I don't really care about the old Zeiss 2.8/21 ZF2 lens. That lens was probably designed for low res sensors.
Click to expand...
I don't see why you say that, or how you can know the resolution of the sensors the lens was designed for without information, directly or indirectly, from the designers. Modern Zeiss F mount lenses, in general, will perform much better on future sensors with half or a quarter of today's pixel pitches.

The 21/2.8 ZM is a great performer on the a7R:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=4009

Jim
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I have a Batis 25 on order, but this is making me reconsider. Trying to keep the amount of lenses to a minimum, and I'm wondering if getting a 21 Loxia instead of 25 Batis + something like the CV15 is a good compromise.

Another reason why I'm considering the Loxia over Batis is the size. One of the reasons I switched to A7 over my 5D was the size, and collecting big lenses really defeats that purpose. I already have the 50 Loxia, and its relative size to the camera is much nicer than my 35 1.4. The Batis isn't as big as the 35, but I would still want to keep it to a minimum if possible.

The 50 Loxia is a joy to handle, and I don't see a reason why the new 21 would be any different. A slower f-stop and lack of autofocus vs a bigger lens at a lower cost is really what it comes down to. I expect the Batis to arrive at the end of January, and my thinking was that changing the order to a Loxia might see it delivered sooner if I'm quick about it.

I'm just rambling at this point, but I was hoping for some constructive comments about what you might do in my situation.

Cheers.
 
sgoldswo said:
spacemn said:
sgoldswo said:
Snikt228 said:
JimKasson said:
spacemn said:
I don't really care about the old Zeiss 2.8/21 ZF2 lens. That lens was probably designed for low res sensors.
Click to expand...
I don't see why you say that, or how you can know the resolution of the sensors the lens was designed for without information, directly or indirectly, from the designers. Modern Zeiss F mount lenses, in general, will perform much better on future sensors with half or a quarter of today's pixel pitches.

The 21/2.8 ZM is a great performer on the a7R:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=4009

Jim

--
http://blog.kasson.com
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The link you posted is the ZF.2, not the ZM

The ZM Biogon 21 I don't believe performs very well at all on the A7x series. The SLR ZF/ZE one does
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You're right. I meant the ZF.2, which was the lens you referred to.

Jim

--
http://blog.kasson.com
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I haven't tried the Distagon 2.8/21 ZF.2 lens myself, but according to DXOMark the resolution numbers are underwhelming on the D810. Were there any 2.8/21mm prime lenses for FF DSLRs back when it was introduced that really shines and usilize the resolution on high res FF sensors today?

I do believe that Zeiss introduced the Milvus lenses to live up to their high IQ standard especially on the resolution front on 36+Mp sensors. Many ZF.2 lenses needed this resolution upgrade. We will see however when we get some reliable quantitative and comparable Milvus lens tests.
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The Milvus 21mm is the same old 21mm ZF.2 in a new case. See the lens diagrams if you don't believe me.

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I am well aware about the designs being the same basically, but there are other factors in a lens contruction contributing to its sharpness than the design only.

The Milvus 21mm weighs around 250 grams (around 40%) more than the now classic ZF.2 version and I cannot believe that Zeiss would release brand new lenses not being class leading or close to, resolution wise, on the highest resolving sensors. Who would pay for same performance but a 40% weight increase and extra premium over the predecessor??

We'll see who's right ;)
 
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sean lancaster said:
Here's the first sample image I've seen from the lens (on an A7RII). This is the kind of shot I'd shoot as well, which is nice. But it won't satisfy those of you looking to shoot landscape.

https://flic.kr/p/zDHQdm

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That's a lovely shot. I enjoy both landscape and bokeh shots like this. I am very tempted by this new Loxia jewel. I will see however what Sony comes out with. A 1.8/21 sharp and aberration free lens wide open would be better for astro shots, so is the Batis 2/25.

Just recently I got the Sony 2/28 on a very god Amazon.it deal, which is also a very nice lens for astro, and in theory probably better suited than this new Loxia. I do want something super wide and compact and you probably wont get much better performing lenses than the Loxia lenses. Hmmm...
 
This lens has me excited. I always wanted the Zeiss 21mm F2.8 for my Nikon D800e. I find I have been using my huge but excellent Nikon 14-24mm a lot so the 21mm is about perfect.

It will also be perfect for nightscapes so long as chromatic aberration is controlled at F2.8 and no coma in the corners wide open (you'd be surprise how many quality lenses fail at this).

So small and it looks good. Steve Huffs enthusiastic review and fabulous photos show this to be a huge winner and a massive boost to the FE lens range.

The 16-35 is now bumped off my wish list by this lens.

Greg.
 
Why would you not buy the ZF2 version then? Dual use .....
 
The Nikon 20mm seems to be getting a leg up by some boosters here.

It is indeed a good lens - not to be compared with Zeiss for pictorial quality but it will please the Nikon crowd who have waited half a lifetime for a new 20mm.

One year for each millimeter of focal length in fact, as the previous vanilla 20mm lens dates from 20 years back - what a company! Better late than never, they probably figured.

It's got some serious deficiencies for FE users, who can of course use any lens they desire, something deprived of Nikon users who have to take what they can get.

It has a huge barrel - 82mm diameter, the L21 is but 62mm.

It takes 77mm filters - very expensive. The new L21 Distagon uses 52mm.

No silky smooth rings nor fine focus performance, invoking focus magnification. No de-click aperture.

It is about the same length but needs a 25mm adapter, making it both very wide and rather long. It's external parts are also made of the same tacky rubberised crap as the other Nikkors.

It will look pretty silly on any small camera.
 
I am surprised about the praising of the Nikkor 20 f/1.8



From the TDP test charts it is wide open a mess compare to the ZF2 design - look here .



Closed down to f/5.6 the Distagon wins easily hands down - kook here .



I can not see why I'd want to buy the Nikkor 20 mm lens - it is relatively soft and it does not perform well stopped down as well - at least if the tests from TDP are right - which I assume.

The new Loxia 21 f/2.8 looks amazingly small, lightweight and looking at the mtf-cruves it seems to be a masterpiece. The fact that strikes me most is that it does not get significantly better when stopping down



Loxia 21 f/2.8 at f/2.8 and f/5.6
Loxia 21 f/2.8 at f/2.8 and f/5.6

In other words it is already amazingly sharp and contrasty wide open - only the corners get slightly better.

Looks like we have a winner here.



21 mm is not my preferred focal length - but hey - you can't be picky when you see such a nicely done piece of engineering :-)

What I am hoping for is a similar 15 mm design and a 135 fast prime - I'd only need these three lenses and I am done for the ultra mobile photo bag.

For the rest the TS-E lenses from Canon are hard to beat - especially due to the freedom of focal plane and the extra boost with a larger virtual sensor size.



Looks like we have the ultimate wide angle lens for ILC cameras.

The price is absolutely acceptable IMHO. It is funny to read some of the comments in some German forums that complain heavily about the missing AF and small filter thread - IMHO no deal breakers at all - my TS-E lenses have no AF and I shoot maybe 60 % of my images with these lenses (the rest is 135 f/2.0 and 300 f/2.8)

This lens makes the decision to buy a Sony A7R II much easier - in fact it will be the lens that won me over.



A nice side effect is that with the rather good margin of pixel count it is easily possible to crop the 25 mm Batis out of the 21 mm Loxia ;-)



A big surprise and a nice price point for a probably outstanding lens - I am very curious to see real world images and what good photographers will do with it!



--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams
 
philip pj said:
The Nikon 20mm seems to be getting a leg up by some boosters here.
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yeah, crazy stuff, what are these people doing reading cr@p sources like DXOmark?
philip pj said:
It is indeed a good lens - not to be compared with Zeiss for pictorial quality
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weelll it does outperform the Zeiss ZF.2 lens the Milvus is a copy of. That would seem to be a good reason for a comparison to me.
philip pj said:
but it will please the Nikon crowd who have waited half a lifetime for a new 20mm.
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yes, people have waited manfully, crying into those terrible 14-24s...
philip pj said:
One year for each millimeter of focal length in fact, as the previous vanilla 20mm lens dates from 20 years back - what a company! Better late than never, they probably figured.

It's got some serious deficiencies for FE users, who can of course use any lens they desire, something deprived of Nikon users who have to take what they can get.
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yes and there are so few native lenses for F mount...
philip pj said:
It has a huge barrel - 82mm diameter, the L21 is but 62mm.
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did you tell your wife 2cm was huge? That's a joke... :-D
philip pj said:
It takes 77mm filters - very expensive. The new L21 Distagon uses 52mm.
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probably not so expensive if you own a 77mm filter for your zooms, which Nikon users will of course, which is why it's flared at the end, just like the Zeiss. Actually could have been made a similar diameter to the Zeiss if not for that thoughtful change.
philip pj said:
No silky smooth rings nor fine focus performance, invoking focus magnification. No de-click aperture.
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seems to be quite reasonably priced too...
philip pj said:
It is about the same length but needs a 25mm adapter, making it both very wide and rather long. It's external parts are also made of the same tacky rubberised crap as the other Nikkors.

It will look pretty silly on any small camera.
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actually it looks pretty good on my D750 :-D

Ok, I'm done pulling your leg now.

People are mentioning the Nikon 20mm here in the same way Nikon owners will benchmark the new 24-70 F2.8 VR for F mount against the performance of the Canon LII lens, i.e. an excellent recent lens in the same focal length. Guess what, not everything made with native FE mount is automatically better than the competition. Some of us might want to use the lens before declaring it superior, having seen Zeiss lenses outperformed by other brands previously... And I so say that with a stack of ZF2 and ZM glass, so it isn't something I say lightly.

all credit to Zeiss for making this a new design though, not just a warmed over Biogon.
 
joger said:
I am surprised about the praising of the Nikkor 20 f/1.8

From the TDP test charts it is wide open a mess compare to the ZF2 design - look here .
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yes, but wide open on the Nikkor is F1.8. stop it down to f2.8 and it's a different story. The lens has an excellent reputation for astrophotography.
joger said:
Closed down to f/5.6 the Distagon wins easily hands down - kook here .

I can not see why I'd want to buy the Nikkor 20 mm lens - it is relatively soft and it does not perform well stopped down as well - at least if the tests from TDP are right - which I assume.
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I think people have done something crazy and looked at its actual performance in use vs objective criteria, where it outperforms the ZF2 lens. See DXOmark. As an owner of both, the Nikon has better resolution and excellent microcontrast and the Zeiss has better colour handling.
joger said:
The new Loxia 21 f/2.8 looks amazingly small, lightweight and looking at the mtf-cruves it seems to be a masterpiece. The fact that strikes me most is that it does not get significantly better when stopping down

Loxia 21 f/2.8 at f/2.8 and f/5.6
Loxia 21 f/2.8 at f/2.8 and f/5.6

In other words it is already amazingly sharp and contrasty wide open - only the corners get slightly better.

Looks like we have a winner here.
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I think that will be judged once we have the lens ;-)
joger said:
21 mm is not my preferred focal length - but hey - you can't be picky when you see such a nicely done piece of engineering :-)

What I am hoping for is a similar 15 mm design and a 135 fast prime - I'd only need these three lenses and I am done for the ultra mobile photo bag.

For the rest the TS-E lenses from Canon are hard to beat - especially due to the freedom of focal plane and the extra boost with a larger virtual sensor size.

Looks like we have the ultimate wide angle lens for ILC cameras.

The price is absolutely acceptable IMHO. It is funny to read some of the comments in some German forums that complain heavily about the missing AF and small filter thread - IMHO no deal breakers at all - my TS-E lenses have no AF and I shoot maybe 60 % of my images with these lenses (the rest is 135 f/2.0 and 300 f/2.8)

This lens makes the decision to buy a Sony A7R II much easier - in fact it will be the lens that won me over.

A nice side effect is that with the rather good margin of pixel count it is easily possible to crop the 25 mm Batis out of the 21 mm Loxia ;-)

A big surprise and a nice price point for a probably outstanding lens - I am very curious to see real world images and what good photographers will do with it!

--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams
Click to expand...


--
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sgoldswoblog.com sgoldswoblog.com
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