Who knows what their reason are?
But whatever it is, they are not satisfying my requirements.
If as a consequence I change brands, their loss not mine.
--
Regards
Lawrence
My Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/lozwilkes/
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More M10 and 15-45 pictures - not a pancake more like 11-22
- Thread starter Lawrencew
- Start date
But whatever it is, they are not satisfying my requirements.
If as a consequence I change brands, their loss not mine.
--
Regards
Lawrence
My Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/lozwilkes/
M
meland
Guest
Because the MILC market is immature (by that I mean the product, not the customers, although that might also be true :-D ).
Canon is not a company that throws mud against the wall to see what sticks. It researches carefully (some might say too carefully but I couldn't really comment) what their market needs and then makes it, often more efficiently than many of its competitors because of its expertise in production. When it feels that there is sufficient 'enthusiast' demand for high end MILCs and commercial benefit in producing them I have no doubt it will do so. In the meantime the companies who are presumably producing what you want are having to do so because they have been unable to compete in the mainstream market.
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M
meland
Guest
I doubt they'll lose too much sleep over that Lawrence.
The thing is Canon could make a camera to satisfy the desires of tiny niche of gearheads and that market might even go orgasmic over it. But is that guaranteed to make it a commercial success? Probably not unfortunately.
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S
speedync
Guest
crashpc
Veteran Member
Yes. I would agree. But there was a time, or rather "more of these" when Canon was the pack leader. It´s not anymore. It lacks even more with every product release/iteration, and it kinda feels it´s realy only the inertia what keeps them alive. There is literally not a single product I would want more than any other product from different brand. How come Canon? I didn´t change my needs in time with you!
R
rrccad
Guest
well not quite..
mirrorless is around 20-25%, canon's around 40-45% ..
however that also includes canon mirrorless and around 8-9 other companies.
R
rrccad
Guest
well let's consider fuji.. alot of people claim fuji should be canon's model.
lots of primes, nice cameras,etc.
fuji in 2014 sold 800,000 cameras. including pocketcams.
estimated amount of ILC sales is probably around 100-200,000 (bythom's estimate)
now consider that canon in japan alone sold around 100,000 M's .. in 2014.. who's smarter?
M
meland
Guest
But the fact is there are an enormous number of people who do want Canon products more than others, or else why would they buy them? Perhaps it is you that is out of step?
straylightrun
Veteran Member
How is the 18-55 better? The 15-45 is better in almost every way. It's much more compact and it's 24mm at the long end as opposed to 28.8mm. Big difference. Good to see Canon now have a compact kit lens and is now finally in line with the other mirrorless manufacturers (Sony/Fuji/Samsung 16-50 and Panasonic 12-32).
G5x or G7x, both are using the same lens.
It probably would be a better option. Converting for equivalency, the G5x/G7x are 1/3 of a stop faster on the wide end and 2/3 of a stop faster on the long end. If you wife is shooting in lower light, theoretically, she should be able to get better images from one of these compacts than the M10 + 15-45.
Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
M
meland
Guest
That looks rather planned to me rather than a chucking mud against the wall exercise. No?Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
Look at it from the perspective of the average consumer. You have seven cameras all in the $500 to $1000 range. I need to make a few assumptions on pricing, but it will probably follow this order from cheapest to most expensive: G9x, M10, G7x, G5x, M3, G1x II, G3x. Pulling out the G3x, you will have six cameras within $200 of each other. All have very similar capabilities and very similar interfaces. All are marketed as a step-up from a smart phone.That looks rather planned to me rather than a chucking mud against the wall exercise. No?Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
It looks like Canon has not figured out what large sensor compact will sell the best, so they are just trying every combination they can think of. The only thing missing is a G3x with a built-in viewfinder.
M
meland
Guest
First, we on DPR are simply not the 'average consumer' so our perspective is somewhat skewed.Look at it from the perspective of the average consumer. You have seven cameras all in the $500 to $1000 range. I need to make a few assumptions on pricing, but it will probably follow this order from cheapest to most expensive: G9x, M10, G7x, G5x, M3, G1x II, G3x. Pulling out the G3x, you will have six cameras within $200 of each other. All have very similar capabilities and very similar interfaces. All are marketed as a step-up from a smart phone.That looks rather planned to me rather than a chucking mud against the wall exercise. No?Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
It looks like Canon has not figured out what large sensor compact will sell the best, so they are just trying every combination they can think of. The only thing missing is a G3x with a built-in viewfinder.
Second, following on from the disruption of smartphones, nobody, not you, or I, or anyone on this forum knows yet what type of cameras will sell best. Given that, the range that Canon appear to be launching does seem quite logical. And I'm very sure they've approached it scientifically because that's how they do things.
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That is normally how they do things. At no time in the past has Canon ever had so many models with overlapping price and features in this market segment. This looks like a shotgun approach. Take the average smart phone user looking for better pictures. Their budget is up to $700. Throw DSLRs into the mix and you have 10 current Canon cameras to choose from.First, we on DPR are simply not the 'average consumer' so our perspective is somewhat skewed.Look at it from the perspective of the average consumer. You have seven cameras all in the $500 to $1000 range. I need to make a few assumptions on pricing, but it will probably follow this order from cheapest to most expensive: G9x, M10, G7x, G5x, M3, G1x II, G3x. Pulling out the G3x, you will have six cameras within $200 of each other. All have very similar capabilities and very similar interfaces. All are marketed as a step-up from a smart phone.That looks rather planned to me rather than a chucking mud against the wall exercise. No?Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
It looks like Canon has not figured out what large sensor compact will sell the best, so they are just trying every combination they can think of. The only thing missing is a G3x with a built-in viewfinder.
Second, following on from the disruption of smartphones, nobody, not you, or I, or anyone on this forum knows yet what type of cameras will sell best. Given that, the range that Canon appear to be launching does seem quite logical. And I'm very sure they've approached it scientifically because that's how they do things.
M
meland
Guest
On the contrary, this is a new market segment that manufacturers have created hoping that it is a niche that smartphones will find hard to enter.That is normally how they do things. At no time in the past has Canon ever had so many models with overlapping price and features in this market segment. This looks like a shotgun approach.First, we on DPR are simply not the 'average consumer' so our perspective is somewhat skewed.Look at it from the perspective of the average consumer. You have seven cameras all in the $500 to $1000 range. I need to make a few assumptions on pricing, but it will probably follow this order from cheapest to most expensive: G9x, M10, G7x, G5x, M3, G1x II, G3x. Pulling out the G3x, you will have six cameras within $200 of each other. All have very similar capabilities and very similar interfaces. All are marketed as a step-up from a smart phone.That looks rather planned to me rather than a chucking mud against the wall exercise. No?Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
It looks like Canon has not figured out what large sensor compact will sell the best, so they are just trying every combination they can think of. The only thing missing is a G3x with a built-in viewfinder.
Second, following on from the disruption of smartphones, nobody, not you, or I, or anyone on this forum knows yet what type of cameras will sell best. Given that, the range that Canon appear to be launching does seem quite logical. And I'm very sure they've approached it scientifically because that's how they do things.
How do you know what this type of buyer's budget is? It might be yours but it's dangerous to extrapolate from that.
Excellent. Plenty of choice then.
I just picked a random number. All but one of these (6 total) cameras will be in the $550 to $750 range. The M10 and M3 are in the middle of the range. If a consumer can't tell the difference between models, they will usually just pick the cheaper option.On the contrary, this is a new market segment that manufacturers have created hoping that it is a niche that smartphones will find hard to enter.That is normally how they do things. At no time in the past has Canon ever had so many models with overlapping price and features in this market segment. This looks like a shotgun approach.First, we on DPR are simply not the 'average consumer' so our perspective is somewhat skewed.Look at it from the perspective of the average consumer. You have seven cameras all in the $500 to $1000 range. I need to make a few assumptions on pricing, but it will probably follow this order from cheapest to most expensive: G9x, M10, G7x, G5x, M3, G1x II, G3x. Pulling out the G3x, you will have six cameras within $200 of each other. All have very similar capabilities and very similar interfaces. All are marketed as a step-up from a smart phone.That looks rather planned to me rather than a chucking mud against the wall exercise. No?Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
It looks like Canon has not figured out what large sensor compact will sell the best, so they are just trying every combination they can think of. The only thing missing is a G3x with a built-in viewfinder.
Second, following on from the disruption of smartphones, nobody, not you, or I, or anyone on this forum knows yet what type of cameras will sell best. Given that, the range that Canon appear to be launching does seem quite logical. And I'm very sure they've approached it scientifically because that's how they do things.
How do you know what this type of buyer's budget is? It might be yours but it's dangerous to extrapolate from that.
Or, too many models for too few customers. A year from now will will know the truth when we see how many of these get a Mark II version and how many go on fire sale.
M
meland
Guest
Why? What's the point of that?I just picked a random number.On the contrary, this is a new market segment that manufacturers have created hoping that it is a niche that smartphones will find hard to enter.That is normally how they do things. At no time in the past has Canon ever had so many models with overlapping price and features in this market segment. This looks like a shotgun approach.First, we on DPR are simply not the 'average consumer' so our perspective is somewhat skewed.Look at it from the perspective of the average consumer. You have seven cameras all in the $500 to $1000 range. I need to make a few assumptions on pricing, but it will probably follow this order from cheapest to most expensive: G9x, M10, G7x, G5x, M3, G1x II, G3x. Pulling out the G3x, you will have six cameras within $200 of each other. All have very similar capabilities and very similar interfaces. All are marketed as a step-up from a smart phone.That looks rather planned to me rather than a chucking mud against the wall exercise. No?Have you taken a look at the rumored lineup?
These are all small cameras with large sensors and all have been released in the last 18 months. Take out the G1x II and you are looking at 12 months of introductions. The G3x with the giant zoom range is the only unique camera of the bunch. All of the rest have nearly identical capabilities.
It looks like Canon has not figured out what large sensor compact will sell the best, so they are just trying every combination they can think of. The only thing missing is a G3x with a built-in viewfinder.
Second, following on from the disruption of smartphones, nobody, not you, or I, or anyone on this forum knows yet what type of cameras will sell best. Given that, the range that Canon appear to be launching does seem quite logical. And I'm very sure they've approached it scientifically because that's how they do things.
How do you know what this type of buyer's budget is? It might be yours but it's dangerous to extrapolate from that.
Then that's where Canon can use their marketing expertise and their various sales channels to make sure they can tell the difference.
OK, it's a date.
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Rock and Rollei
Veteran Member
Well no, actually, they generally go for an option in the middle, assuming they can afford it.
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