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Sulejek

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Hi All,

I have Nikon D80 together with Nikkor 18-200 VR (first edition), Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di II SP and SB 600 flash. I'm happy with the pictures quality except usable ISO which is IMO around 800 for this camera. When it comes to the photo print size I don't go over A4 or 8x10. I would rather avoid replacing body and lenses. On the other side I heard that camera with more megapixels require better lenses. That is why I wonder if you can recommend me a body replacement that would be significant upgrade but still will work fine with the lenses I have. Because of the budget limit I'm looking for used camera. I thought about D7000 but is a bit heavy. D5200 lacks of many controls and dials. Maybe just D90? Is it better in low light than D80?

Priorities:
  1. Good picture quality with Nikkor and Tamron (if possible at all)
  2. Quicker AF
  3. Usable ISO at least 1600
  4. Good JPGs. I don't mind tweaking exposure compensation, WB, contrast and other things in menu I don't do RAWs
  5. If possible I would rather keep top LCD as well as front and back dial
  6. Not much heavier than D80
  7. Low shutter delay
  8. Movie recording is nice to have feature
Thanks,

Mike
 
Hi.
Sulejek said:
Hi All,

I have Nikon D80 together with Nikkor 18-200 VR (first edition), Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di II SP and SB 600 flash. I'm happy with the pictures quality except usable ISO which is IMO around 800 for this camera. When it comes to the photo print size I don't go over A4 or 8x10. I would rather avoid replacing body and lenses. On the other side I heard that camera with more megapixels require better lenses.
Click to expand...
That's simply a myth.

Every sensor will perform better with better lenses - your D80's sensor too.

Every lens will perform better with more res. sensors - your lenses too.
Sulejek said:
That is why I wonder if you can recommend me a body replacement that would be significant upgrade but still will work fine with the lenses I have. Because of the budget limit I'm looking for used camera. I thought about D7000 but is a bit heavy. D5200 lacks of many controls and dials. Maybe just D90? Is it better in low light than D80?
Click to expand...
The D90 performs better in low-light than the D80 - it has an overall of 1-1/2 stop more DR. The D7000 has better DR at base (100 vs. 200) and at higher ISO's, equal to the D90 at ISO 200 - ISO 6400, the D7100/D5200 having yet half a stop in the whole range.

The weightdifferences of the D90/D7000/D7100 is inside about 50g.

Sulejek said:
Priorities:
  1. Good picture quality with Nikkor and Tamron (if possible at all)
  2. Quicker AF
  3. Usable ISO at least 1600
  4. Good JPGs. I don't mind tweaking exposure compensation, WB, contrast and other things in menu I don't do RAWs
  5. If possible I would rather keep top LCD as well as front and back dial
  6. Not much heavier than D80
  7. Low shutter delay
  8. Movie recording is nice to have feature
Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...
1. They all deliver good image quality - but as said - the D7100/D5200 wins - by a mulehair.

2. The same here - the newer systems of D7000/D5200 - and D7100/D7200 is clearly faster and more accurate than D80/D90, specifically for moving subjects.

3. You to decide, what's usable - but the newer sensors had an advantage.

4. Wouldn't know :-) I always shoots RAW.

5. So would I rather... that's one of the reasons, that I excludes the D5x00 series.

6. Well... up to about 100g :-)

7. Ehh....?

8. I see - and disagree :-) - but they all have.

BirgerH.
 
I upgraded my D80 to D7200 about 4 months ago and couldn't be happier.

My Tamron 17-50 didn't AF in LiveView and I'd had other gripes with it on D80 so I replaced it with Nikon 18-140 which was a fine decision for about the same money (longer reach, faster AF, VR for video, good IQ).

My Nikon 70-300 VR really came alive with D7200 - now I could begin AF tracking wildlife and the lens pretty much keeps up while on D80 the body slowed down the lens.

On D80 I also didn't go over 800 with ISO, with D7200 I try to keep it at 1600 max. I don't like the IQ over that.
 
D7000 should do the trick for you. Will satisfy all your requirements and is fantastic value for money right now. It's light, will give you more than the ISO you need and you will be able to use all your lenses with it.
 
Sulejek said:
Hi All,

I have Nikon D80 together with Nikkor 18-200 VR (first edition), Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di II SP and SB 600 flash. I'm happy with the pictures quality except usable ISO which is IMO around 800 for this camera. When it comes to the photo print size I don't go over A4 or 8x10. I would rather avoid replacing body and lenses. On the other side I heard that camera with more megapixels require better lenses. That is why I wonder if you can recommend me a body replacement that would be significant upgrade but still will work fine with the lenses I have. Because of the budget limit I'm looking for used camera. I thought about D7000 but is a bit heavy. D5200 lacks of many controls and dials. Maybe just D90? Is it better in low light than D80?

Priorities:
  1. Good picture quality with Nikkor and Tamron (if possible at all)
  2. Quicker AF
  3. Usable ISO at least 1600
  4. Good JPGs. I don't mind tweaking exposure compensation, WB, contrast and other things in menu I don't do RAWs
  5. If possible I would rather keep top LCD as well as front and back dial
  6. Not much heavier than D80
  7. Low shutter delay
  8. Movie recording is nice to have feature
Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...
Hello Mike,

I had the D80 and at one point had the D90, D7000 and now have the D7100 and D5300. I also shot with the Tamron 17-50 A16NII model for several years.

The first thing you need to figure out is if the Tamron 17-50 is the older A16N model (with screw drive) or the newer A16NII which has a Built In Motor (shorted to BIM in some posts). The older model will not AF on Nikon DSLRs without an AF motor, so that means it will not AF with the D5100, D5200, D5300 etc.

All the newer cameras are going to have better photo quality in jpeg and RAW at higher ISOs. You are right that the D80's upper limit is around ISO 800, with ISO 400 being much better. The D90/D5000 ups that a tad to about ISO 1250. The D7000/D5100 upper limit is ISO 3200, and the D7100/D7200/D5200/D5300/D5500 is at about ISO 6400, with the very newest models being slightly better looking in marginal exposure or marginal light.

Now before some other post chimes in and says that they get ISO 6400 shots our of their D7000 all the time or some such; I am talking about a safe limit for a variety of lighting situations. In great light, and careful exposure, you can always push the ISO a tad more and I got some great ISO 6400 shots from my D7000, just like I got a few good shots from my D80 and D90 at ISO 1600. But the numbers that I listed are safe numbers for a variety of lighting and allow a tiny bit of latitude for exposure misses.

All the models are going to have faster AF than the D80, except perhaps the D5000 and maybe the D5100 because Nikon improved the processors in the cameras, even if (in some models) they did not make much of a change in the AF module itself.

Also, the D80 has a tendency to have exposure swings depending on what is under the main focal point, whereas Nikon mostly cured that with later models. So metering is improved.

However, there is one area where you D80 is far superior (imho) than any camera after it. And that is the look and especially color of images taken in great light at base ISO. The colors of the D80 class of sensors is really very nice. So... if you take a lot of images at base ISO you may be disappointed at the IQ of the newer cameras compared to it. Sure the newer cameras have a nice look, but the colors were changed for the newer models. That is why I have a D60 (same sensor as the D80) that I keep around for portrait and macro work at base ISO.

So all the newer models have better AF and better IQ at high ISO, in both jpeg and RAW. If you have the A16N (screw drive) Tamron, then you need to only look at the DSLRs with an AF motor, otherwise you have more options.

I cheated and now have both types - a fully featured model (currently D7100) that is excellent for action and had instant access to controls; and a lighter, smaller, more portable model (currently D5300 and D60) for when I don't want to lug around the larger cameras.

If at all possible, try the cameras in hand so you know what you are getting into when you buy one. Some folks do not like the smaller cameras and vice versus.

Last, make a budget. Then look carefully at reputable dealers for bargains. I use Adorama, B&H, Keh.com , Midwest Photo Exchange (mpex.com). Beach Camera, Amazon and Tri-State are also ok. Newegg.com used to be good, but has been disappointing recently.

Good luck!
 
I went from a D80 to a D7100 and the improvement was huge. Better focusing, much better high ISO, more accurate exposure. Overall picture quality is amazing coming from the D800. My Tamron 18- 50mm (non- VR) worked great on it too along with my SB600. You can save a few hundred vs the price of a D7200.
 
I concur with the D7100 or D7200. You will see improvements with both of your lenses.

If like me, you will notice less quality improvements with the 18-200 mm lens. With both lenses, you will definitely benefit from the higher ISO possibilities (i.e. photos will not be too grainy at ISO 3200–4000), but you will probably find that photos taken with the 18-200 are just a bit sharper than with the D80, whereas photos taken with the 17-50 will be much sharper. It probably won't be noticeable most of the time, except for some "Wow" factor when using the 17-50. You would notice the difference even more if you were to enlarge or crop a lot of the photo.

Still, under no circumstances you will find the 18-200 a horrible lens to use with the D7100. It just is a wide-range zoom, with its advantages, but also its limitations.
 
JeffryZ said:
I went from a D80 to a D7100 and the improvement was huge. Better focusing, much better high ISO, more accurate exposure. Overall picture quality is amazing coming from the D800. My Tamron 18- 50mm (non- VR) worked great on it too along with my SB600. You can save a few hundred vs the price of a D7200.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you all for a lot of useful information :-) After thorough reading I'm leaning towards D7000 because D7100 is exceeding my budget a bit. Are there any important factors I have to take into consideration when choosing between those two models? What I know is I don't need extra mega pixels and better movie capture ability.

Catallaxy - My tamron lens is older one (without BIM)
 
Sulejek said:
Thank you all for a lot of useful information :-) After thorough reading I'm leaning towards D7000 because D7100 is exceeding my budget a bit. Are there any important factors I have to take into consideration when choosing between those two models? What I know is I don't need extra mega pixels and better movie capture ability.

Catallaxy - My tamron lens is older one (without BIM)
Click to expand...
Then you'll be fine with the D7000 which is also awesome and even better value.
 
Sulejek said:
Thank you all for a lot of useful information :-) After thorough reading I'm leaning towards D7000 because D7100 is exceeding my budget a bit. Are there any important factors I have to take into consideration when choosing between those two models? What I know is I don't need extra mega pixels and better movie capture ability.
Click to expand...
Both cameras have a totally different AF-system, than you are used to with the D80. The area systems do have a learning curve to find the exact focus-point, but when learned, they are quicker and far more accurate - especially for fast moving subjects.

The CAM4800DX in the D7000 is by some rather criticized to be more inconsistent and inaccurate than the CAM3500DX in the D7100 - mine is perfect and always spot on - though I'm not shooting moving subjects, except my granddaughter, normally.

Most of the troubles some have had with the D7000 focus-system, I think, is due to he bigger AF-areas of the D7000

Otherwise the two cameras are rather similar.
Sulejek said:
Catallaxy - My tamron lens is older one (without BIM)
Click to expand...
So am I :-)

Don't throw it away - the D7000 will operate it with no problems.

BirgerH.
 
In fact in most situations I use single point AF on my D80 since I don't want to be disappointed by camera AI. I hope moving objects tracking is usable on D7000. I have to young kids and everybody knows that sometimes you have only one shot (if you are lucky). They don't sit still :)

To what kind of problems with AF are you referring to? I've red something about wrong focus settings (FF or BF) and the need to tune it sometimes.
 
I've seen your gallery. Great pictures Jeffry. Are all of them post processed from RAWs?
 
Sulejek said:
In fact in most situations I use single point AF on my D80 since I don't want to be disappointed by camera AI. I hope moving objects tracking is usable on D7000.
Click to expand...
The area-AF-system of the D7000 is built to track moving subjects. The tracking abilities of my D7000 is far better than my D90.
Sulejek said:
I have to young kids and everybody knows that sometimes you have only one shot (if you are lucky). They don't sit still :)
Click to expand...
Strange kids :-)
Sulejek said:
To what kind of problems with AF are you referring to? I've red something about wrong focus settings (FF or BF) and the need to tune it sometimes.
Click to expand...
All lenses and all cameras are built with some tolerances - and sometimes you have to fine-tune the camera to a specific lens. Some says, they need it for all their lenses - only one of mine needed a fine-tuning - and that's just because that lense was a little inconsistence used in daylight/artificial light - the fine-tuning made that inconsistence less. The D7000 has the ability to do that fine-tuning.

BirgerH.
 
Little to add to BirherH and Catallaxy's informative and helpful comments.

Have used D90,D3100,D5200,D7100,and D7200, but not D80. I had a G3 then.

On paper, it looks like there was a step improvement in still performance between D80 and D90.
D7x00 offer smaller improvements with each iteration.
BirgerH said:
Sulejek wrote:
What I know is I don't need extra mega pixels and better movie capture ability.
Click to expand...
For movies the main problem with D7000 is that - while it has a microphone input - it has neither a headphone output nor audio level meters on the display, so recording decent audio on the camera is more difficult than necessary. If you get an external microphone, some experimentation may be required to get the audio recording levels right. A small digital recorder like Tascam DR-40 might help.
[RANT]Nikon is new to video, so Nikon has to re-invent everything itself. Nikon still hasn't worked out what zebra bars are for.[/RANT]
 
John Vickers said:
Little to add to BirherH and Catallaxy's informative and helpful comments.

Have used D90,D3100,D5200,D7100,and D7200, but not D80. I had a G3 then.

On paper, it looks like there was a step improvement in still performance between D80 and D90.
D7x00 offer smaller improvements with each iteration.
Click to expand...
Yes - speaking Image quality and Dynamic range. But especially speaking AF-performance, the D7000 was a huge improvement to the D90 - and D7100/D7200 some improvements to the D7000.

Speaking resolution - the ability to crop tight or print (very) large - the big step came with the D7100.

I think, every generation have their improvements - they are just not that important to every one - as an example - the more resolution of the D7100/D7200 has no importance to me - the faster AF neither - D7000 has more speed, than I. :-)
John Vickers said:
John Vickers said:
Sulejek wrote:
What I know is I don't need extra mega pixels and better movie capture ability.
Click to expand...
For movies the main problem with D7000 is that - while it has a microphone input - it has neither a headphone output nor audio level meters on the display, so recording decent audio on the camera is more difficult than necessary. If you get an external microphone, some experimentation may be required to get the audio recording levels right. A small digital recorder like Tascam DR-40 might help.
[RANT]Nikon is new to video, so Nikon has to re-invent everything itself. Nikon still hasn't worked out what zebra bars are for.[/RANT]
Click to expand...
And this is where I have absolutely no interest. I've always enjoyed better reading the book than watching the movie :-)

BirgerH.

BTW: What are "zebra bars"? :-)
 
BirgerH said:
And this is where I have absolutely no interest. I've always enjoyed better reading the book than watching the movie :-)
Click to expand...
Sometimes the movie itself is the thing. If you like reading books, you could try Pauline Kael's book on Citizen Kane ;-) You probably need a DVD to go with the book...
BirgerH said:
BirgerH.

BTW: What are "zebra bars"? :-)
Click to expand...
Ah. The hard part about doing zebra bars properly is in breeding zebras with stripes of very uniform width, slanted at 45' to the horizontal, rather than the usual 90'. The diagonal stripe phenotype is only present in individuals which are homozygous for multiple recessive alleles , and so is extremely rare in the wild.

;-) :-)

Zebra bars are a way of indicating exposure level / overexposure - and sometimes undexposure - in an electronic viewfinder.

A simplistic implementation (Like a D7200, or my 15-year-old Sony mini-DV camcorder) just applies diagonal grey stripes in the viewfinder to areas that are at 100% recorded luma. Hence the ranty comment above.

More useful implementations allow programming the zebra bar level - for example at an appropriate level for caucasian skin tones.

There'll be a link shortly.

Another method - sometimes known as "Predator Vision" - colours blown out areas in Saturated Red, and lost shadows in Deep Purple.

Yet another method applies a kind of "Zone System" to the live view/EVF display, using different colours to highlight zone boundaries.

Red understand this stuff. This is what they can do: http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/exposure-false-color-zebra-tools

It seems to me that these aids aren't just useful in video. Using live view or an EVF when shooting stills, why shouldn't we be able to have an EVF display of Ansel Adams-style zone boundaries ?

For the benefit of any camera engineers reading this, those boundaries would be based on RAW sensor data levels, not levels in some decoded JPEG. The folk who would use such a feature will be shooting RAW.
 
Last edited:
Sulejek said:
Hi All,

I have Nikon D80 together with Nikkor 18-200 VR (first edition), Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di II SP and SB 600 flash. I'm happy with the pictures quality except usable ISO which is IMO around 800 for this camera. When it comes to the photo print size I don't go over A4 or 8x10. I would rather avoid replacing body and lenses. On the other side I heard that camera with more megapixels require better lenses. That is why I wonder if you can recommend me a body replacement that would be significant upgrade but still will work fine with the lenses I have. Because of the budget limit I'm looking for used camera. I thought about D7000 but is a bit heavy. D5200 lacks of many controls and dials. Maybe just D90? Is it better in low light than D80?

Priorities:
  1. Good picture quality with Nikkor and Tamron (if possible at all)
Click to expand...
Yes.
Sulejek said:
  1. Quicker AF
Click to expand...
Yes.
Sulejek said:
  1. Usable ISO at least 1600
Click to expand...
Perhaps 3200, depending on your taste. 3200 for me on D90, D7100.
Sulejek said:
  1. Good JPGs. I don't mind tweaking exposure compensation, WB, contrast and other things in menu I don't do RAWs
Click to expand...
D7000 can shoot RAW+JPEG. Why not try it ?

RAW usually gives more dynamic range, and more latitude for adjusting WB, Contrast, ... after the event.

I think RAW is easier and faster than JPEG, as well as giving better results because it isn't so necessary - if necessary at all - to tweak "exposure compensation, WB, contrast and other things in menu" while shooting. Certainly might want to adjust Exposure compensation. But even that's not as critical as with JPEG (or H264 video).

Adobe Lightroom is free for a month.
Rawtherapee is free, and possibly better, but harder to use. If considering Rawtherapee, have a look at guides on internet.
 
Last edited:
Sulejek said:
I've seen your gallery. Great pictures Jeffry. Are all of them post processed from RAWs?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words! Yes- they are shot in RAW. My D7100 images need much less processing than my D80 ones did. I rarely have to sharpen them as well.
 
Sulejek said:
Hi All,

I have Nikon D80 together with Nikkor 18-200 VR (first edition), Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di II SP and SB 600 flash. I'm happy with the pictures quality except usable ISO which is IMO around 800 for this camera. When it comes to the photo print size I don't go over A4 or 8x10. I would rather avoid replacing body and lenses. On the other side I heard that camera with more megapixels require better lenses. That is why I wonder if you can recommend me a body replacement that would be significant upgrade but still will work fine with the lenses I have. Because of the budget limit I'm looking for used camera. I thought about D7000 but is a bit heavy. D5200 lacks of many controls and dials. Maybe just D90? Is it better in low light than D80?

Priorities:
  1. Good picture quality with Nikkor and Tamron (if possible at all)
  2. Quicker AF
  3. Usable ISO at least 1600
  4. Good JPGs. I don't mind tweaking exposure compensation, WB, contrast and other things in menu I don't do RAWs
  5. If possible I would rather keep top LCD as well as front and back dial
  6. Not much heavier than D80
  7. Low shutter delay
  8. Movie recording is nice to have feature
Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...
No doubt D90 if available (it has internal focus motor)!
 
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