Sigma SD15 and Consumer Reports Rating

AscherJim

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I am a long-time satisfied owner and user of the SD15. However, I was browsing my Consumer Reports on-line subscription the other day and belatedly came across the following from one of their March 2013 issues:

"Sigma SD15 is an SLR you should avoid
"Consumer Reports News: March 29, 2013

"...The SD15 got the worst image-quality scores of any of the advanced cameras we've tested...."

I am very surprised as I personally have found the SD15 and its Foveon sensor to deliver very fine photos.
 
I am a long-time satisfied owner and user of the SD15. However, I was browsing my Consumer Reports on-line subscription the other day and belatedly came across the following from one of their March 2013 issues:

"Sigma SD15 is an SLR you should avoid
"Consumer Reports News: March 29, 2013

"...The SD15 got the worst image-quality scores of any of the advanced cameras we've tested...."

I am very surprised as I personally have found the SD15 and its Foveon sensor to deliver very fine photos.
Rest assured that your SD15 is a fine camera. And indeed, it delivers very fine pictures. It has its limitations, though. Stay away from ISO > 800 and your're fine as well.
 
Consumer Reports is a good magazine for the rest of us, the lowest common denominator, the broadest demographic.

They liked low cost CD players years ago because they couldn't tell much difference between the sound of them and the high priced audiophile CD players. For most of the rest of us, it's true: it is almost not worth the extra cost. But the audiophile CD players are niche products, for a very thin slice of the consuming public, people who can tell the difference, people who can appreciate it enough to spend more money and time. Most people are happy with fairly clear background music, from a CD that has been compressed to the point of blandness. Yes I am talking about the popular stuff too. Lots of people like that. Few and far between are the listeners who appreciate a recording that uses the entire dynamic range of the medium to advantage. Most people don't like those recordings, too much work to listen to, too loud and too soft and so on.

Same with cameras. You're lucky to see any Sigma camera reviewed by them at all. They liked the lower cost compacts, the entry level DSLRs, and so on: virtually the same image quality as the more expensive cameras. Virtually is good enough for most people, except the small percentage actually interested deeply in product performance. That's where Sigma comes in.

Remember Sigma cameras are a niche product, valued by a very thin slice of the consuming public interested enough to know. Consumer Reports will not be able to understand any niche markets.

My wife gets Consumer Reports every month. It's usually a nice read. If I am looking for a lawnmower or a hedge trimmer, or a faucet for the kitchen sink it works pretty well. I'm not sure but I imagine there are niche products in the lawnmower arena. I know we will never hear about them from Consumer Reports.

--
Tom Schum
Celebrate mediocrity (in moderation)
 
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Well Hello

You know CR is for the average joe blow. I saw that report and they had no clue on how to work the SD15, but it worked to the advantage of the bayer people, sad.

As for high ISO my SD15's does fine ISO 1600 with no problem.

Have fun

Roger J.
 
I am a long-time satisfied owner and user of the SD15. However, I was browsing my Consumer Reports on-line subscription the other day and belatedly came across the following from one of their March 2013 issues:

"Sigma SD15 is an SLR you should avoid
"Consumer Reports News: March 29, 2013

"...The SD15 got the worst image-quality scores of any of the advanced cameras we've tested...."

I am very surprised as I personally have found the SD15 and its Foveon sensor to deliver very fine photos.
...had better - ie, less stupid - stunts compared to that blurb.

Now see here!

atom14.
 
They are right about CD players! People who buy really high end stuff do so because they believe they can hear a difference (which is fine, if it works for you) but their beliefs are not supported by scientifically controlled double blind tests. Faith seems to outdo facts for some people ;-)
Consumer Reports is a good magazine for the rest of us, the lowest common denominator, the broadest demographic.

They liked low cost CD players years ago because they couldn't tell much difference between the sound of them and the high priced audiophile CD players. For most of the rest of us, it's true: it is almost not worth the extra cost. But the audiophile CD players are niche products, for a very thin slice of the consuming public, people who can tell the difference, people who can appreciate it enough to spend more money and time. Most people are happy with fairly clear background music, from a CD that has been compressed to the point of blandness. Yes I am talking about the popular stuff too. Lots of people like that. Few and far between are the listeners who appreciate a recording that uses the entire dynamic range of the medium to advantage. Most people don't like those recordings, too much work to listen to, too loud and too soft and so on.

Same with cameras. You're lucky to see any Sigma camera reviewed by them at all. They liked the lower cost compacts, the entry level DSLRs, and so on: virtually the same image quality as the more expensive cameras. Virtually is good enough for most people, except the small percentage actually interested deeply in product performance. That's where Sigma comes in.

Remember Sigma cameras are a niche product, valued by a very thin slice of the consuming public interested enough to know. Consumer Reports will not be able to understand any niche markets.

My wife gets Consumer Reports every month. It's usually a nice read. If I am looking for a lawnmower or a hedge trimmer, or a faucet for the kitchen sink it works pretty well. I'm not sure but I imagine there are niche products in the lawnmower arena. I know we will never hear about them from Consumer Reports.

--
Tom Schum
Celebrate mediocrity (in moderation)
--
"...while I am tempted to bludgeon you, I would rather have you come away with an improved understanding of how these sensors work" ---- Eric Fossum
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmillier/
 
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We don't do much with Consumer Reports anymore. Sites like Trip Advisor, Yelp and others are very good sources. Also it is very easy to find reviews on just about any product and in the long run, they are more meaningful coming from someone who is living with the product than someone who just brings it in for a look-see.
 
They are right about CD players! People who buy really high end stuff do so because they believe they can hear a difference (which is fine, if it works for you) but their beliefs are not supported by scientifically controlled double blind tests. Faith seems to outdo facts for some people ;-)
Nowadays one can buy higher quality digital sound files than what's on a CD. :-)

More interesting is the discussions going from LP to CD. Photographing with film vs digital is an analog here. But that has all to do with pleasing imperfections.
 
We don't do much with Consumer Reports anymore. Sites like Trip Advisor, Yelp and others are very good sources. Also it is very easy to find reviews on just about any product and in the long run, they are more meaningful coming from someone who is living with the product than someone who just brings it in for a look-see.
Is it just me or..., whenever I read customer product feedback I tend til focus on the bad reports even if they are in the minority. :-)

--
Lightwriting with Sigma dp2Q for stills and Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for video
 
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They are right about CD players! People who buy really high end stuff do so because they believe they can hear a difference (which is fine, if it works for you) but their beliefs are not supported by scientifically controlled double blind tests. Faith seems to outdo facts for some people ;-)
Nowadays one can buy higher quality digital sound files than what's on a CD. :-)

More interesting is the discussions going from LP to CD. Photographing with film vs digital is an analog here. But that has all to do with pleasing imperfections.

--
Lightwriting with Sigma dp2Q for stills and Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for video
You kind of both wrong and right at the same time...

There is so much dependence on how you master CD's or LP's or whatever and sort of music you play.

Also whatever condition you are when listening.

Couple of drinks or hangover makes a huge difference in sound quality :-))

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/victor_gvirtsman/
 
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"Sigma SD15 is an SLR you should avoid
"Consumer Reports News: March 29, 2013

"...The SD15 got the worst image-quality scores of any of the advanced cameras we've tested...."

I am very surprised as I personally have found the SD15 and its Foveon sensor to deliver very fine photos.
Consumer Reports developed a testing procedure and a set of test metrics. That is true for all items it test. Their goal is to provide the customer with a consistent set of information from which they can make an informed decision. They also normally give an indication of how the camera faired against each of the metrics.

What this says is given the test metrics that are applied to all cameras tested, the SD15 did not fair well - no more no less.

In reality the same is true for DXOMark. It's test procedures are based on a CFA sensor. That is why they do not test a Foveon nor even a Leica monochrome camera.
 
They are right about CD players! People who buy really high end stuff do so because they believe they can hear a difference (which is fine, if it works for you) but their beliefs are not supported by scientifically controlled double blind tests. Faith seems to outdo facts for some people ;-)
Nowadays one can buy higher quality digital sound files than what's on a CD. :-)

More interesting is the discussions going from LP to CD. Photographing with film vs digital is an analog here. But that has all to do with pleasing imperfections.

--
Lightwriting with Sigma dp2Q for stills and Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for video
You kind of both wrong and right at the same time...

There is so much dependence on how you master CD's or LP's or whatever and sort of music you play.

Also whatever condition you are when listening.

Couple of drinks or hangover makes a huge difference in sound quality :-))
Well, assuming that in these days you don't master a record differently between LP and CD.

The main difference is that in a LP you play from A to Z. I'm not against LP, not at all. My point is that people like what their used to. F.ex I hate watching films on hotel TVs that have enable high frequency. The films then looks like video, behind the scenes video or documentaries. I guess in 10 years time it will be the mainstream. But for the aged (or as my daughter said, the 1 million years old) 24 images per second is what we prefer. :-)

As I said, pleasing imperfections; don't knock it, it is true.

--
Lightwriting with Sigma dp2Q for stills and Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for video
 
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"Sigma SD15 is an SLR you should avoid
"Consumer Reports News: March 29, 2013

"...The SD15 got the worst image-quality scores of any of the advanced cameras we've tested...."

I am very surprised as I personally have found the SD15 and its Foveon sensor to deliver very fine photos.
Consumer Reports developed a testing procedure and a set of test metrics. That is true for all items it test. Their goal is to provide the customer with a consistent set of information from which they can make an informed decision. They also normally give an indication of how the camera faired against each of the metrics.

What this says is given the test metrics that are applied to all cameras tested, the SD15 did not fair well - no more no less.

In reality the same is true for DXOMark. It's test procedures are based on a CFA sensor. That is why they do not test a Foveon nor even a Leica monochrome camera.
I thought DcoMark was sponsored by Nikon (at least by listening to the Canon crowd) ;-) :-P
 
.....................................................................
As I said, pleasing imperfections; don't knock it, it is true.

--
I do not knock it. It has it effect and quite often big one. I think in Austria quite a few years back they upgraded quality of sound on the radio and people started to complain about horrible sound. They had to degrade sound quality and slowly during a year restore it so people get used to it.

Regular CD player will bit crap out of LP's on regular LP player even BoomBox will do that for most people.

Properly mastered CD on a decent CD player will be about equal LP on a good record player.

Two channel audio DVD will just slaughter any record player.

Too bad it never took of.

Even worse i had loss of high frequencies on my left ear and lack of time to listen to music besides my car :-)
 
When you shoot at ISO 400 and above, which many people do, especially when shooting indoors, the Consumer Reports rating would be correct. For landscape photographers who shoot at ISO 100 almost exclusively though, the image quality of the SD15 is excellent, superior to the Nikon D300 and D300s, which were the main competitors to the SD15 at the time when the SD15 came on the market, but shortly after the SD15 came on the market I believe the Nikon D7000 came on the market, and that camera not only had better dynamic range than the SD15, but it could capture more detail in photos, as could the Canon 50 D.

What most of the reviews fail to mention is the almost total lack of noise in ISO 100 photos from the Sigma cameras. The noise levels at ISO 100 are so low that the Sigma cameras compare with low resolution full-frame cameras from Nikon and Canon (12 MP and 16 MP).

If you look at the SD15 in an overall view, you get these disadvantages over other cameras:

- ISO 400 and above look terrible in comparison to most other DSLR cameras.

- Speed of shooting is slow (limited to 3 fps).

- Speed of buffer clearing is slow (though the SD15 has a very large buffer).

- The screen on the back of the SD15 is equivalent to that of a much cheaper camera.

- The features of the SD15 are not extensive (i.e. no interval timer shooting capability).

- The SD15 is not weather sealed, but the Nikons in the same price range were (Canons were not though)

- Focusing capability of the SD15 is slow in comparison to the Nikon D300s and Canon 50 D. Therefore Consumer Reports would have recommended those other cameras over the Sigma. Even the best Pentax camera at that time, which was about the same price range, had better focusing ability, if I remember correctly.

Another reason Sigma cameras are considered a bad choice by reviewers is the fact that there are no third-party lenses available, which means you are limited to just the lenses that Sigma makes. While Sigma does make a lot of lenses, ALL of those lenses are available in Nikon and Canon mount, so not only do you get the choice of all the Sigma lenses, but you have the Nikon or Canon lenses available too, as well as many Tamron and Tokina lenses (amongst others). When you consider the vast array of lenses available for Nikon and Canon cameras, it's almost a no-brainer to pick one of those over a Sigma camera . . . unless you're on a budget and shoot primarily at ISO 100, like I do. Then there is the software limitations, though those seem to be evaporating as time goes by. The SD15 raw files can be processed in many programs now, and frankly it takes time for new cameras to be made compatible with programs like Aperture and Lightroom.

So it's understandable that almost any review of any Sigma camera would suggest that there are better choices for most photographers. I can definitely understand them recommending people stay away from the Sigma, just as they would recommend people stay away from any Leica.
 
...Another reason Sigma cameras are considered a bad choice by reviewers is the fact that there are no third-party lenses available, which means you are limited to just the lenses that Sigma makes. While Sigma does make a lot of lenses, ALL of those lenses are available in Nikon and Canon mount, so not only do you get the choice of all the Sigma lenses, but you have the Nikon or Canon lenses available too, as well as many Tamron and Tokina lenses (amongst others). When you consider the vast array of lenses available for Nikon and Canon cameras, it's almost a no-brainer to pick one of those over a Sigma camera...
I use my old Nikon F lenses on my SD15 through purchase and installation of a fine lens conversion kit offered by SigmaCumLaude.
 
Tom has it right; ... Consumer Reports is fine for choosing lawnmowers, but for anything even slightly more complex, they cater to the herd. And those who travel in herds can't tell the difference between a good photograph and spilled soup.

On the SD15 itself, in good or at least halfway decent light it can produce images with quality above and beyond any camera with a Bayer sensor on the market, unless you're including those that require a lottery win to purchase. And even then, it's often a toss-up.
 

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