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eBay GM5 from Hong Kong came PAL, not NTSC as listed

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1) the listed price is looking like the high street price on gray imported products (normally at US$450) on the higher end. Not something from authorized dealer of Panny in Hong Kong.

2) Most of them are sourced from South East Asia (my GX7 was from Malaysia as told) or Japan (due to weak Yen, but in Japanese only), not locally from Hong Kong as it was (from the sole authorized dealer having warranty stripped) years ago.

3) Can't find any detail on the shop, unlike DigitalRev, doesn't look like to have any physical office/warehouse/sales office/Service center. Might be a small cottage business? Looking through its products, likely a Mainland Chinese company more...
 
It probably is a mainland China company. Many ship from Hong Kong so that they can put that in their eBay listing to attract more customers. I've bought many things from "Hong Kong" that were either shipped from Shenzhen, or started out there. I really don't have a problem with that; it's just a way of doing business. However, there are many good camera shops in Hong Kong (Kowloon) and I've visited and ordered from them over the years. No problem.
 
Tom Caldwell said:
bs1946 said:
This stuff happens all the time and just not with camera gear. There are posts all over the internet of people complaining about electronics that they can't plug in or the voltage is wrong or there's a compatibility issue. And the complaint is usually accompanied with it was a great deal and the dealer said.

I would say that you guys need to push for a full refund from Ebay and slap the dealer with negative feedback, just on principle if nothing else. But, even if Ebay gets enough complaints to kick the dealer off, the dealer will just show up as someone new.
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People like you are just too damned cheap to purchase your equipment through normal channels or a local dealer. Money is the paramount objective, not the kit or the service. If you counter this criticism by saying that you cannot afford the equipment if you do not go grey or black market, then you are buying beyond your financial ability. Don't complain when you get stung grabbing a bargain that's too good to be true.

I stick where I have the finances to be. I would love a Sony A7RII and a handful of Zeiss lenses, but I cannot afford them. And I won't go looking for risky ways to acquire them.


Jim Pilcher
Bonita Springs, Florida, USA
 
Tom Caldwell said:
Grey market gear keeps you local vendors "honest" in their pricing. My experiences have been 99.9% good and I only started buying on-line when I found I could have bought at 50% of the price in my local store.
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I 'sort of' agree and there's no way I will defend the rip-off prices we are facing here Down Under but at the same time it's not fair to compare the local shop price to the overseas grey market.

Local shops have to charge extra to pay rent (itself a rip-off if they are in local shopping centres like Westfield), they have to pay their staff and pay for a shop-front and as well they have to pay the local wholesaler whatever he demands for the shipped goods, with the drop in value of the Aussie dollar that all adds up.

Then they have to add a 10% GST...

Then they have to pay for service and after-sales support although they will do their best to palm you off into taking a faulty camera back to the manufacturer rather than dealing with it themselves...
Tom Caldwell said:
I just bought a Metabones adapter from Hong Kong on a Friday and it was at our Australian address by Tuesday. Local intersate freight is hardly quicker. This is exceptionally quick but the writing is on the wall for all to see.
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It takes up to 5 days to send something from Melb to Sydney or Brisbane. Australia Post really need to do something about this...
Tom Caldwell said:
Nobody has to buy grey market knowingly but the fact that it exists has to be good news for all purchasers no matter whether some choose not to take the chance.
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When the crack down on the 'free of GST under a $1000' current situation happens then that will help level the playing field - a little.

I, like most Aussies are sick of 'paying through the nose' for goods that cost far too much in Australia but IMHO the lions share of that rip-off price goes not to the retailer but to the greedy bloody wholesaler who set their own prices and then have a bit of a closed shop attitude by not looking at imported goods for service and operate in a kind of cartel environment by price fixing at the wholesale level and stopping overseas sales to Australia through Amazon and similar...

So IMHO it's the retail shop that bears the brunt of all this - not the greedy fat-cat wholesaler, and in the end if everyone decides to buy grey market then the lovely bricks and mortar shops like Ted's and Michaels where we all love to go and get our hands on the latest new gadget to try it out will no longer exist - we will all lose if this comes about...

What we need here is 'parallel importing' to stop the wholesaler wrought that's making the retail shops uncompetitive, same with buying a car here - price gouging at it's finest - even the govt are into it with their luxury car tax...
 
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James Pilcher said:
People like you are just too damned cheap to purchase your equipment through normal channels or a local dealer. Money is the paramount objective, not the kit or the service.
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Yep, you really should buy it in the USA where you can then return it, no questions asked after using for a week or two.

Then the retailer has to take a loss on the product and mark it as a return or try and sell it off as new to some poor unsuspecting customer.

How this system can ever survive is beyond my understanding.
 
My old iMac required me to switch formats if I attempted to play a DVD (legally) purchased from another region. I believe it had a lifetime limit of 3 region changes before it became unchangeable.

Do current Macs, or PCs for that matter, require you to change formats to import the files to your drive? Could be a problem if the OP has different devices capable of video in the 2 different formats?
 
James Pilcher said:
People like you are just too damned cheap to purchase your equipment through normal channels or a local dealer. Money is the paramount objective, not the kit or the service. If you counter this criticism by saying that you cannot afford the equipment if you do not go grey or black market, then you are buying beyond your financial ability. Don't complain when you get stung grabbing a bargain that's too good to be true.

I stick where I have the finances to be. I would love a Sony A7RII and a handful of Zeiss lenses, but I cannot afford them. And I won't go looking for risky ways to acquire them.

Jim Pilcher
Bonita Springs, Florida, USA
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Oh, my. So I'm "too damned cheap," and apparently irresponsible with my finances as well. And Corkcampbell suggests that I'm greedy.

Hey, everyone who buys (or doesn't buy) something that interests them makes some decision about how much they want it, what they can afford, how much a warranty and a reputable dealer matters, etc. And I've seen lots of debates on web forums about the benefits and morality of buying from online vendors versus local brick and mortar stores.

I've bought most of my camera gear from B&H, Amazon, and a local camera store. Aside from a 14mm lens removed from a kit for $180, this is the first camera/lens purchase I've ever made from an Asian eBay seller.

I've been interested in the GM5 for a while, but it hasn't been worth $899 to me. I do shop for bargains, whether that is waiting for a sale from B&H or comparing prices with other vendors, online or local. IMO, an eBay seller is just another variation of that, and I know full well that one has to weigh the low price against the inherent risks. It's just one of many options in a big marketplace, Jim, nothing more or less than that.

My primary purpose in posting this thread wasn't to whine about what happened (I knew that I was taking more of a risk buying from some H.K. eBay seller than from B&H). My primary purpose (go back and read the OP if you like) was to get some advice about the significance of PAL versus NSTC.

I really don't see it as an invitation to such a self-righteous and condescending lecture on morality and fiscal responsibility, Jim.

--
Brent
 
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brentbrent said:
I really don't see it as an invitation to such a self-righteous and condescending lecture on morality and fiscal responsibility, Jim.
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Sounds like Jim got his knickers well and truly twisted there - really not necessary.

I'm also looking at that exact same GM5 from the same seller - the GM5 is close to $1000 here Down under...

Now let me see - buy local at $999 (or wait a few more months until it drops to a more reasonable $599, as did the GM1) or from HongKong for $430? - tough decision eh... :)

And for me the PAL version will be perfect!
 
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bs1946 said:
Tom Caldwell said:
bs1946 said:
This stuff happens all the time and just not with camera gear. There are posts all over the internet of people complaining about electronics that they can't plug in or the voltage is wrong or there's a compatibility issue. And the complaint is usually accompanied with it was a great deal and the dealer said.

I would say that you guys need to push for a full refund from Ebay and slap the dealer with negative feedback, just on principle if nothing else. But, even if Ebay gets enough complaints to kick the dealer off, the dealer will just show up as someone new.
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SidSnot said:
I'm also looking at that exact same GM5 from the same seller - the GM5 is close to $1000 here Down under...
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I will say this for this seller: I placed the eBay order on Aug. 10, and I received the camera in Colorado before noon on Aug. 13, express DHL service. I was stunned by how quickly it arrived.

The box has a white rectangle with some adhesive remains, where a factory label was apparently peeled off, but everything else seemed to be in good order. The camera and lens both have serial numbers, and so far the camera is a little gem (aside from the PAL video, which would work for you).
 
Sorry it's beyond your understanding, but any first-year marketing MBA can explain it to you. It's a great way of doing business - perhaps you haven't noticed that the US has the lowest prices in the world for this kind of stuff. Few people return things; I don't think I've ever returned a camera, but I did return a lens a few years ago the same day I bought it. I spent another $1500 in the store (B&H) on my way out. If people are afraid to buy things because they can't return something that didn't work out, they're not going to buy. Yeah, we read about the serial returners on these threads but they aren't normal consumers. Returning things is such a hassle that most people just aren't going to do it. People want to like their purchases. That's why stores have changing booths in the clothing areas so that people walk out with the right size rather than return something later for lack of fit.

The concept is so useful that I noticed that major Chinese chains have adopted it, as well as Korean. I've lived in both places (still in Korea) and saw this transition. Quite simply, if you give a person the option to return, it is like insurance for them to buy something. It makes for a more confident customer, one more willing to spend money. Sales and traffic go up. And, since you obviously don't live in a business environment that follows this, you probably suffer higher prices, young people wanting to learn business and marketing applying to US, UK or Canadian business schools, and the lack of understanding that you mentioned.

--
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber
 
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I apologize for the greed suggestion; I've been guilty myself, although not about cameras. Had to do with not getting out of the stock market despite warning signs.

I stand by my opinion that the PAL/NTSC issue is a non-issue. Keep the camera and enjoy it!
 
Thanks for the info - very interesting and I can now see how it might work...

Perhaps I have been influenced by the many posts here and in other forum where US residents make a habit of 'buying and trying' then returning the goods for a full refund...

In Australia most retailers do not offer a 'change of mind' refund policy (although it *is* starting to happen with the likes of ALDI & Apple) but they might offer a store credit refund or an exchange of product but not always.

We do have some quite strong consumer laws though - but not enough of the general public know or care about them.
 
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Yeah, we get a lot of people here who seem to brag about trying out several cameras and then keeping one. Trust me, that's not the norm and I have no respect for them. No one respects those people, and retailers routinely cut them off from return privileges. I sold electronics part-time for years and 99% of people didn't return anything (because, like you and I, they had done their research). Occasionally, it was my job to tell a serial returner something like: "Sorry we haven't been able to meet your needs, but your return privileges are suspended." We considered them about the same as shoplifters, or worse. I know Amazon does this as well. By the way, at my place, nothing was sold again as new; it was put into the "return" section, which had its normal customers. Like other customers, I used to buy returns for the savings. Some companies required us to send all returns to them, which they repackaged and sold as refurbished. Those were good deals, as well. Because of the greater sales it produces, I don't think anyone suffered much because of the occasional serial returner.
 
Corkcampbell said:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Yeah, we get a lot of people here who seem to brag about trying out several cameras and then keeping one. Trust me, that's not the norm and I have no respect for them. No one respects those people, and retailers routinely cut them off from return privileges. I sold electronics part-time for years and 99% of people didn't return anything (because, like you and I, they had done their research). Occasionally, it was my job to tell a serial returner something like: "Sorry we haven't been able to meet your needs, but your return privileges are suspended." We considered them about the same as shoplifters, or worse. I know Amazon does this as well. By the way, at my place, nothing was sold again as new; it was put into the "return" section, which had its normal customers. Like other customers, I used to buy returns for the savings. Some companies required us to send all returns to them, which they repackaged and sold as refurbished. Those were good deals, as well. Because of the greater sales it produces, I don't think anyone suffered much because of the occasional serial returner.
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