Francis Carver
Senior Member
You are clearly wasting everyone's time here, dude. Also, you see to be totally clueless. A lethal combination, if I ever saw one.
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
4K from camera to tablet
- Thread starter Nurz
- Start date
I have read your posts to try to get an understanding of your odd attitude; you clearly read few of mine. Having seen your posts, your description fits you to a tee. It only misses your rudeness. Get a life, and please get help, and not just for your eyes.
I have filed a complaint about your personal rudeness and name calling (ignorance is unfortunately not a transgression) and this post in particular. I would prefer you remove this yourself, and I would be happy to remove my necessary response.
Last edited:
Francis Carver
Senior Member
Mark2241: So maybe your handle/call letters should be "CluelessMark000," no?
You ran to the principal's office to file a complaint, did you now? Naughty, naughty boy. So, THIS is what becomes of those types once they grow up, eh?
You ran to the principal's office to file a complaint, did you now? Naughty, naughty boy. So, THIS is what becomes of those types once they grow up, eh?
Bernard Carns
Senior Member
Whether or not the whole thread/post goes away.
Wikipedia:
Ignore: invented by forum publishers for the purpose of allowing participants to have a more pleasant experience.
BC
LSHorwitz1
Senior Member
No Markr041---The 4K UHD Standard is absolutely NOT SET as only HEVC-h.264 "PERIOD":
As I originally predicted---
The recently released Samsung 4K UHD disk player supports BOTH h.265 HEVC AS WELL AS 4K h.264 codecs.
HEVC may ( and probably will ) be the preferred 4K codec given its higher efficiency, but h.264 4K is supported as well.
See this attached page (p.59) from the new Samsung player's owner's manual:
Larry
Last edited:
I am sorry you are still confused after 6 months. Specifically, you are confusing the official Blu Ray UHD *standard* with what a particular Blu Ray *player* will play. The UHD Blu Ray *standard* is HEVC (H265). Period again. Commercial UHD Blu Rays will be encoded only using H265. That is what the standard is about. It is for commercial Blu Rays. Commercial Blu Rays do not "prefer" anything; they must be encoded with H265.No Markr041---The 4K UHD Standard is absolutely NOT SET as only HEVC-h.264 "PERIOD":
As I originally predicted---
The recently released Samsung 4K UHD disk player supports BOTH h.265 HEVC AS WELL AS 4K h.264 codecs.
HEVC may ( and probably will ) be the preferred 4K codec given its higher efficiency, but h.264 4K is supported as well.
See this attached page (p.59) from the new Samsung player's owner's manual:
Larry
Blu Ray players may be capable of playing anything else, but if they advertise they play commercial UHD Blu Rays they need to decode HEVC. Whatever they or you "prefer."
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Ultra_HD_Blu-ray.
I am glad that some new Blu Ray players will also play other codecs and wrappers.
Btw, my old Panasonic Blu Ray player will also play more than commercial HD Blu Rays too. But there is a standard for commercial HD Blu Rays too.
Last edited:
Bernard Carns
Senior Member
Home - EOSHD.com - Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews
eoshd Editor EOSHD.com and EOSHD TV on YouTube – all things cinema, filmmaking and mirrorless camera related I love the X-Pro3 with ARRIFLEX Super 16mm lenses. 👻👻👻 I love a bit of Spooky Tooth Autumn tones 🍂 @zuzia_bezsensowna – an EOSHD Pr Nice bucket hat Total eclipse of the moon in progress…...
www.eoshd.com
BC
LSHorwitz1
Senior Member
Mark,I am sorry you are still confused after 6 months. Specifically, you are confusing the official Blu Ray UHD *standard* with what a particular Blu Ray *player* will play. The UHD Blu Ray *standard* is HEVC (H265). Period again. Commercial UHD Blu Rays will be encoded only using H265. That is what the standard is about. It is for commercial Blu Rays. Commercial Blu Rays do not "prefer" anything; they must be encoded with H265.No Markr041---The 4K UHD Standard is absolutely NOT SET as only HEVC-h.264 "PERIOD":
As I originally predicted---
The recently released Samsung 4K UHD disk player supports BOTH h.265 HEVC AS WELL AS 4K h.264 codecs.
HEVC may ( and probably will ) be the preferred 4K codec given its higher efficiency, but h.264 4K is supported as well.
See this attached page (p.59) from the new Samsung player's owner's manual:
Larry
Blu Ray players may be capable of playing anything else, but if they advertise they play commercial UHD Blu Rays they need to decode HEVC. Whatever they or you "prefer."
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Ultra_HD_Blu-ray.
I am glad that some new Blu Ray players will also play other codecs and wrappers.
Btw, my old Panasonic Blu Ray player will also play more than commercial HD Blu Rays too. But there is a standard for commercial HD Blu Rays too.
Even if the spec should not include currently h.264, which I highly doubt, and only includes h.265/HEVC, the normal manner for specifications in general to evolve willl by no means preclude its inclusion in a future revision. Your notion of a single static specification is fictional and specious.
As a a senior member of the IEEE for decades having sat on numerous working groups to develop specifications and standards, it is abundantly obvious that such documents are evolving and incorporating changes on an ongoing basis. For entertainment media in particular such as 4K UHD disks, the combination of piracy, international distribution, legal, and most of all technology changes require quarterly or even monthly meetngs of the working group to revise and maintain the specs and standards. What you called "period" six months ago and again today rerflects an ignorace of how engineering standards are developed. Having much more familiarity with IEEE standards for Firewire/1394, 802.11, I can tell you that even these comparatively non-controversial specs and standards have been developing for decades, and BluRay has also done so as 3D, AVCHD, DCT algorithm and other changes have been incorporated. Your insistence on the finality of a single spec does not reflect how such things actually work.
So please show me the explicit BluRay 4K UHD specification language where HEVC is EXCLUSIVELY used. The claim made on the Internet that HEVC is exclusively provided by the specification can easily be proven if you have access to the specification and can quote it directly. And I would NOT dismiss again my original statemenet by claiming the support for h.264 has been added by Samsung to their player for 4K UHD playback simply as a as an optional marketing feature. No doubt they are paying royalties for what you claim is a supposedly optional feature yet no mention of this "optional" capability shows up in any promotionakl material for this Samsung player.
Most certainly the advantages of the newer HEVC encoder should dominate the 4K market, but MPEG2 for both 1920 by 1080 disks and ATSC broadcasting has been hard-wired into their respective standards despite having similar efficiency disadvantages when HD began. Generally speaking, specifications and standards deliberately include both newer and older variants since the specs do evolve over time.
Larry
Last edited:
Please stop this. You do not know what you are talking about on this subject (I am sure you know a lot of other things).Mark,I am sorry you are still confused after 6 months. Specifically, you are confusing the official Blu Ray UHD *standard* with what a particular Blu Ray *player* will play. The UHD Blu Ray *standard* is HEVC (H265). Period again. Commercial UHD Blu Rays will be encoded only using H265. That is what the standard is about. It is for commercial Blu Rays. Commercial Blu Rays do not "prefer" anything; they must be encoded with H265.No Markr041---The 4K UHD Standard is absolutely NOT SET as only HEVC-h.264 "PERIOD":
As I originally predicted---
The recently released Samsung 4K UHD disk player supports BOTH h.265 HEVC AS WELL AS 4K h.264 codecs.
HEVC may ( and probably will ) be the preferred 4K codec given its higher efficiency, but h.264 4K is supported as well.
See this attached page (p.59) from the new Samsung player's owner's manual:
Larry
Blu Ray players may be capable of playing anything else, but if they advertise they play commercial UHD Blu Rays they need to decode HEVC. Whatever they or you "prefer."
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Ultra_HD_Blu-ray.
I am glad that some new Blu Ray players will also play other codecs and wrappers.
Btw, my old Panasonic Blu Ray player will also play more than commercial HD Blu Rays too. But there is a standard for commercial HD Blu Rays too.
Even if the spec should not include currently h.264, which I highly doubt, and only includes h.265/HEVC, the normal manner for specifications in general to evolve willl by no means preclude its inclusion in a future revision. Your notion of a single static specification is fictional and specious.
As a a senior member of the IEEE for decades having sat on numerous working groups to develop specifications and standards, it is abundantly obvious that such documents are evolving and incorporating changes on an ongoing basis. For entertainment media in particular such as 4K UHD disks, the combination of piracy, international distribution, legal, and most of all technology changes require quarterly or even monthly meetngs of the working group to revise and maintain the specs and standards. What you called "period" six months ago and again today rerflects an ignorace of how engineering standards are developed. Having much more familiarity with IEEE standards for Firewire/1394, 802.11, I can tell you that even these comparatively non-controversial specs and standards have been developing for decades, and BluRay has also done so as 3D, AVCHD, DCT algorithm and other changes have been incorporated. Your insistence on the finality of a single spec does not reflect how such things actually work.
So please show me the explicit BluRay 4K UHD specification language where HEVC is EXCLUSIVELY used. The claim made on the Internet that HEVC is exclusively provided by the specification can easily be proven if you have access to the specification and can quote it directly. And I would NOT dismiss again my original statemenet by claiming the support for h.264 has been added by Samsung to their player for 4K UHD playback simply as a as an optional marketing feature. No doubt they are paying royalties for what you claim is a supposedly optional feature yet no mention of this "optional" capability shows up in any promotionakl material for this Samsung player.
Most certainly the advantages of the newer HEVC encoder should dominate the 4K market, but MPEG2 for both 1920 by 1080 disks and ATSC broadcasting has been hard-wired into their respective standards despite having similar efficiency disadvantages when HD began. Generally speaking, specifications and standards deliberately include both newer and older variants since the specs do evolve over time.
Larry
Do you understand that I am reporting a fact? I am not insisting on anything. Your pointing to the specs of a bluray player has nothing to with the requirements specified by the BDA for commercial Blu Ray Discs, and just shows you are unable to understand what is going on. I am reporting a fact, not an opinion or a speculation. The specs are finished. Here is *another* link to the specification:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/hom.../ultra-hd-blu-ray-specification-now-complete/
To quote from this link: "There's also only one format! No UHDDVD or other such nonsense this time around. All the manufacturers are on board for a single unified format." The italics are in the original.
Here is another link:
https://www.avforums.com/article/the-bda-discuss-the-latest-on-ultra-hd-blu-ray.11917
Quote from this: "Physically the disc will look identical to regular Blu-ray, just with a different capacity and the content will be HEVC encoded of course and the transfer rate is a lot quicker because you’re sending a lot of data.
And the one encoding format, as you will see if you read these links, is HEVC encoding. HEVC is exclusively used. HEVC is the only encoder for commercial UHD Blu Rays. And to quote myself, "period."
And, there will be no 4K 3D. Period. It's done, it's finished. Commercial UHD Blu Rays will be available soon., using only HEVC for 4K. H264 may be used for lower resolutions, and even 3D (which is not 4K).
Last edited:
LSHorwitz1
Senior Member
Mark,
As currently, time will tell the true story of what ultimately occurs.
As I stated in this thread 7 months ago:
"It is therefore entirely possible that both HEVC (h.265) as well as AVC (h.264) will BOTH be supported on the new 4K BluRay disks. In doing so, the author can choose and the player will abide."
Time has proven me correct on the new / first Samsung player for 4K UHD, and as I also previously stated then, Panasonic's player supports twice the bit rate required by HEVC, strongly suggesting they will also offer both formats.
This discussion has indeed become belabored, so feel free to visit again or not. The current evidence to me says both formats are supported but maybe the UHD world will indeed rely exclusively on 4K HEVC. The restriction of your interpretation to now only including *COMMERCIAL* 4K UHD disks as of today's discussion thereby dismissing the player capabilitity to support h.264 is a red herring if I ever saw one.
Larry
As currently, time will tell the true story of what ultimately occurs.
As I stated in this thread 7 months ago:
"It is therefore entirely possible that both HEVC (h.265) as well as AVC (h.264) will BOTH be supported on the new 4K BluRay disks. In doing so, the author can choose and the player will abide."
Time has proven me correct on the new / first Samsung player for 4K UHD, and as I also previously stated then, Panasonic's player supports twice the bit rate required by HEVC, strongly suggesting they will also offer both formats.
This discussion has indeed become belabored, so feel free to visit again or not. The current evidence to me says both formats are supported but maybe the UHD world will indeed rely exclusively on 4K HEVC. The restriction of your interpretation to now only including *COMMERCIAL* 4K UHD disks as of today's discussion thereby dismissing the player capabilitity to support h.264 is a red herring if I ever saw one.
Larry
You obviously cannot read - the links- or have some other impairment. Or are you denying what the links say (interviews with BDA officials)? The time has come, the specs are done. You are wrong. anything *was* possible, but in fact HEVC was the one codec chosen. The links are very clear that only one codec is used on commercial 4K Blu Ray movie discs - HEVC - for playing 4K movies. Time has proven you incorrect. There is no "current evidence" other than the official release by BDA of the commercial Blu Ray specs. And these clearly say that HEVC is the only codec for 4K.
There is no "discussion." I am not belaboring. I am only trying to help you see the fact, and also to make sure no one else is misled by your fact denial. Did you see the links I provided? Or do you only read your own posts?
I don't care what codec was chosen. I have no stake in this. I only get riled up when someone says something that is just patently untrue. It really shouldn't matter that you are ignorant of the facts, but I worry it will mislead others, although it really won't do much harm if anyone believes, contrary to the facts, that commercial Blu Ray 4K encoding is MJPEG or X AVC or Pro Res 444 or V9 or AVCHD Super Plus or some new fantasy codec.
What matters is that there is a standard and if a Blu Ray player has the official BDA logo (which has also been decided on), it will play 4K Blu Ray movies. That's what is nice about a standard. Who cares what the standard is, if you are not actually producing commercial Blu Rays. If you are, you better get an HEVC encoder. Nothing else will do.
Loading…
www.fudzilla.com
Last edited:
LSHorwitz1
Senior Member
Mark,
I am also not a stakeholder in the specific choice of encoders used to make commercial disks. I really could care less what is used, and if a standard were chosen exclusively for commercial disks and then only allowed the players to support / play that single standard, my concern would remain exclusively for authored discs which I make myself. I suspect many if not most of the people on this forum feel the same way.
Therefore, I think the direction of this discussion regarding whether a single standard has been already rigidly set and if so will it stay that way without potential changing really misses the point. As stated earlier, those of us without HEVC-equipped cameras would like to see players which can play non-HEVC content in h.264 AVC formats, without neccesitating transcoding. This is by far the important issue for readers of this type of forum.
Thankfully Samsung has already demonstrated that such is the case for their player and hopefully other manufacturers will follow suit. Samsung in particular actually has a strong marketing incentive to NOT provide h.264 suppirt for 4K h.264, given that it is the format which all of their competition uses in 4K video cameras and camcorders, yet they thankfully have decided to include it nonetheless.
One could easily argue the position that downward compatibility in these new players requires that older AVC h.264 formats used in the current full HD 1920x1080 content *must be incorporated* in order to play these older files, and therefore, including it with a 4K resolution is a no-brainer.
For the reasons stated above, I personally suspect that all the manufactures of 4K players will incorporate h.264 and that the issues of commercial versus non-commercial as well as a "cast in stone" spec with no future change permitted are both, in the final analysis, irrelevant.
Larry
I am also not a stakeholder in the specific choice of encoders used to make commercial disks. I really could care less what is used, and if a standard were chosen exclusively for commercial disks and then only allowed the players to support / play that single standard, my concern would remain exclusively for authored discs which I make myself. I suspect many if not most of the people on this forum feel the same way.
Therefore, I think the direction of this discussion regarding whether a single standard has been already rigidly set and if so will it stay that way without potential changing really misses the point. As stated earlier, those of us without HEVC-equipped cameras would like to see players which can play non-HEVC content in h.264 AVC formats, without neccesitating transcoding. This is by far the important issue for readers of this type of forum.
Thankfully Samsung has already demonstrated that such is the case for their player and hopefully other manufacturers will follow suit. Samsung in particular actually has a strong marketing incentive to NOT provide h.264 suppirt for 4K h.264, given that it is the format which all of their competition uses in 4K video cameras and camcorders, yet they thankfully have decided to include it nonetheless.
One could easily argue the position that downward compatibility in these new players requires that older AVC h.264 formats used in the current full HD 1920x1080 content *must be incorporated* in order to play these older files, and therefore, including it with a 4K resolution is a no-brainer.
For the reasons stated above, I personally suspect that all the manufactures of 4K players will incorporate h.264 and that the issues of commercial versus non-commercial as well as a "cast in stone" spec with no future change permitted are both, in the final analysis, irrelevant.
Larry
Last edited:
I agree with you that having players with multiple capabilities regarding codecs would be very useful for those of use who shoot video (I shoot in HEVC and X AVC), and it is great the new Samsung 4K Blu Ray Player will also play other codecs. My only point is that commercial 4K Blu Ray discs will only use HEVC, something you and others here seemed to deny, and there is no indication that there will be deviations from that in the foreseeable future. That is fixed for now. The bitrates for H264 would have to be too high to maintain the same quality in 4K. The relevant institutions also want there to be just one standard.
I also agree that for shooters of video, it is not particularly relevant what the standard for commercial 4K Blu Ray movies is, except for hose who deny that HEVC is a useful codec for shooting 4K video. Denying what that standard is, however, makes no sense.
Similar threads
- For sale
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum