So...is the A7RII getting lossless RAW, or what?

Sell it.

The camera is clearly unusable for your standards, no reason to be moaning over something it's over your control.

I give you 30 pounds for such a poor machine.
--
You common cry of curs! whose breath I hate
As reek o' the rotten fens, whose loves I prize
As the dead carcasses of unburied men
That do corrupt my air, I banish you;
 
Anybody heard anything recently? The interwebs appear to be quiet.
Much ado about nothing. Unless you are into night sky photography, you will never see meaningful artifacts from Sony's lossy compression, and possibly not even then.
Although this isn't an issue that I'm particularly concerned about, I think it's something that reasonable people can differ on. Indeed, I've seen a comments from a number of foks I respect asking Sony for lossless RAW.

Last I heard, somebody from Sony said something about maybe addressing the issue in a firmware fix. I doubt very much we'll see Sony moving to lossless compressed RAW. About the best I think we could hope for would be an option for lossless uncompressed RAW. And I'm not holding my breath even for that.
 
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Why are you not worried about moiré? I find it horrendous in this photo, making the shot almost unusable.
lets see, you've been on dpr for a whole four months, have you ever said anything constructive during that time? i think not, lol

moire comparison between d800 vs. d800e, wherein the d800e shows increased moire artifacting... maybe you should be telling the nikon people that the d800e is junk, they should all buy the d800: http://www.robgalbraith.com/content_page3bac.html?cid=7-11676-12555
 
No magic applied, just an old Zeiss 50/1.7 Planar legacy MF lens and a quick pass through Lightroom first zeroed out, then with minimal sharpness applied. No screen caps, no scaling. This is a tight crop from the lower 3rd from center, so not totally ideal placement in the frame.

No halos, no artifacts, no huge moire patterns that aren't already in the printing.



0184c1b4809c4134b42a30b9f284147a.jpg
 
Your comment puzzles me, I would never tell D800E owners, their camera is junk. Where do you get that idea from?

Back to topic: do you find the degree of moiré in this product shot acceptable?
 
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Show us a few of the photos you've taken that require lossless raw please.
I just switched to sony from nikon and I'm very happy but the first pictures I took with A7II were bags of coffee in studio (flash + 90mm macro) and I got something very surprising, kind of jpeg compression artifacts around text and moire.
I shoot the same bags a week before with a nikon d610 and there were no problems, so I think in part the problem is raw compression.

(the following screen capture are taken in PNG so what you see is what I get from Lr, maybe watch the original file and not the preview)
Your problem there is that this is a SCREEN CAPTURE, not the original output RAW conversion. What you're seeing here is that 1. the capture app may be compressing or otherwise being altered (pixel level clarity is very low), 2. the image could have any unknown amount of adjustments to create that lighter halo, which is almost always a sign of sharpening.

Since you have no original image to show, no solid conclusions can really be derived. It's a poor looking screen capture of an image that could be anything, with any number of factors affecting it.
the raw is unedited exactly like the one I compare to (nikon D610).
So let's see the RAW rather than a picture of a picture.

Seems odd you can't export the RAW as TIFF or PNG and crop that to prove your point. Either way, the halo you see isn't cRAW.
The screen capture app is the stock Mac OS X, it saves in PNG so no compression and the file is exactly what I see in Lr.
Assuming your screen capture is 100% exactly the same as the RAW in LR - it doesn't mean there isn't any processing of the image going on, that you have some kind of scaling of your desktop happening or scaling of the image either in LR or at some other point.

We don't even know if you might not be showing us a thumbnail JPEG. That's really what it looks like to my eyes - the artifact halo is quite typical looking for that.
The problem here is very simple to my eyes, raw compression affects fine details in raw, not a major problem but a step back from my previous camera.
And again, as people keep telling you, you're operating from the false assumption that the image you posted exhibits lossy compression cRAW artifacts, which it does not. It's nothing like cRAW compression.

What you see there is a halo effect indicative of scaling, sharpening or other image adjustment either in the screen capture app or your Mac - desktop UI shell, who knows? Either way, it's not the A7 compression that's causing the problem, here.
Hope Sony will give lossless raw to version 2 A7
The A7II has the same ARW compression as Sony has been using since the SLT and DSLR days. All signs point to the A7RII having the same.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if you're showing us a screen cap of a 2:1 zoom in LR. Obviously that's going to make the thing look soft, and if you have default sharpening applied, there's your halo effect.
Yes that was a 3x to make the effect more visible (I wrote it under the screen capture).

anyway, I have uploaded 2 pictures from sony and nikon with both Lr and Capture One, subject is different color but the same kind of "compression artifact" is not present anywhere instead it is on sony on many areas.

Now that you say it could be that the default sharpening for ARW files is different in Lr and CO from Nikon and as a side effect it creates an halo... who knows.

And, I'm not negative actually I love A7 and I have invested many thousands of euro to buy (great) Zeiss lenses, so I'm just complaining for not getting the same clean files as Nikon.

Sony - lightroom version


Sony - capture one version


Nikon - lightroom version


Nikon - Capture one version


(all files are tiff, zip compression, 8 bit, adobe RGB)
 
Show us a few of the photos you've taken that require lossless raw please.
I just switched to sony from nikon and I'm very happy but the first pictures I took with A7II were bags of coffee in studio (flash + 90mm macro) and I got something very surprising, kind of jpeg compression artifacts around text and moire.
moire is not caused by raw compression, so it's not relevant to this thread.

you should have known that before posting your unsubstantiated fud.

"Sensor response above the Nyquist frequency is garbage. It can cause aliasing,visible as Moire patterns of low spatial frequency. In Bayer sensors (all sensors except Foveon) Moire patterns appear as color fringes."

 
Show us a few of the photos you've taken that require lossless raw please.
I just switched to sony from nikon and I'm very happy but the first pictures I took with A7II were bags of coffee in studio (flash + 90mm macro) and I got something very surprising, kind of jpeg compression artifacts around text and moire.
moire is not caused by raw compression, so it's not relevant to this thread.

you should have known that before posting your unsubstantiated fud.

"Sensor response above the Nyquist frequency is garbage. It can cause aliasing,visible as Moire patterns of low spatial frequency. In Bayer sensors (all sensors except Foveon) Moire patterns appear as color fringes."

http://www.imatest.com/docs/sharpness/
gosh I think you have problems to read, as I said (many times) I mentioned moire because well, it's there and it's evident, the problem is the "compression" effect in text and in other parts of the picture.
 
Hmmmm let's see - I had the NEX5, I had the A6000, I currently have the A7ii (love it!!!) and I have the A7rii on pre-order. Clearly I think Sony/Zeiss make junk, hahaha
 
Show us a few of the photos you've taken that require lossless raw please.
I just switched to sony from nikon and I'm very happy but the first pictures I took with A7II were bags of coffee in studio (flash + 90mm macro) and I got something very surprising, kind of jpeg compression artifacts around text and moire.
moire is not caused by raw compression, so it's not relevant to this thread.

you should have known that before posting your unsubstantiated fud.

"Sensor response above the Nyquist frequency is garbage. It can cause aliasing,visible as Moire patterns of low spatial frequency. In Bayer sensors (all sensors except Foveon) Moire patterns appear as color fringes."

http://www.imatest.com/docs/sharpness/
gosh I think you have problems to read, as I said (many times) I mentioned moire because well, it's there and it's evident, the problem is the "compression" effect in text and in other parts of the picture.
when did you ever post any actual photos of anything? the only thing that i've seen from you is screen grabs or similar garbage, which you failed to defend, because you don't understand why they are not the same as actual photos.

you claimed that everything that you think that you saw was caused by sony raw compression, but you can't prove any of that.

this is just you posting unsubstantiated fud, and sony raw compression trolls jumping on the bandwagon.
 
Show us a few of the photos you've taken that require lossless raw please.
I just switched to sony from nikon and I'm very happy but the first pictures I took with A7II were bags of coffee in studio (flash + 90mm macro) and I got something very surprising, kind of jpeg compression artifacts around text and moire.
moire is not caused by raw compression, so it's not relevant to this thread.

you should have known that before posting your unsubstantiated fud.

"Sensor response above the Nyquist frequency is garbage. It can cause aliasing,visible as Moire patterns of low spatial frequency. In Bayer sensors (all sensors except Foveon) Moire patterns appear as color fringes."

http://www.imatest.com/docs/sharpness/
gosh I think you have problems to read, as I said (many times) I mentioned moire because well, it's there and it's evident, the problem is the "compression" effect in text and in other parts of the picture.
when did you ever post any actual photos of anything? the only thing that i've seen from you is screen grabs or similar garbage, which you failed to defend, because you don't understand why they are not the same as actual photos.

you claimed that everything that you think that you saw was caused by sony raw compression, but you can't prove any of that.

this is just you posting unsubstantiated fud, and sony raw compression trolls jumping on the bandwagon.
ehm.. if you look a little bit harder I'm sure you'll find the full size pictures.

a screen capture in PNG have no problems at all, doesn't add or change anything from what you see on the screen. maybe you have to study file formats.

and I'm trying to understand why I get this compression effect, maybe it is not cRAW, so better if I understand how to stop having it, please tell me if you know.
 
hmmmm, I wonder then, how did I take this photo?

(Don't you feel a little silly to claim knowledge of what cameras people you don't know have or not have? - gee)...



ImEx exhibition, Berlin 2015
ImEx exhibition, Berlin 2015
 
yeah right.... google for it and try to find it, good luck - that's why I posted FULL SIZE. But whatever, do me a favor and ignore all my future posts as I will ignore your silly presumptions.
 
Anybody heard anything recently? The interwebs appear to be quiet.
Much ado about nothing. Unless you are into night sky photography, you will never see meaningful artifacts from Sony's lossy compression, and possibly not even then.

Rob
Ok now im worried....

I was planning to get an A7r or A7r II soon, but the compression messes up night sky photography? Can you point to some examples of this.

I do alot of astrophotography. Its not all I do or I would get a Nikon D810a, but I do alot of it. So thats important and not something to be po pooed...

I hope your just BSing but I will have to look into this more now.
 
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Anybody heard anything recently? The interwebs appear to be quiet.
Much ado about nothing. Unless you are into night sky photography, you will never see meaningful artifacts from Sony's lossy compression, and possibly not even then.

Rob
Ok now im worried....

I was planning to get an A7r or A7r II soon, but the compression messes up night sky photography? Can you point to some examples of this.

I do alot of astrophotography. Its not all I do or I would get a Nikon D810a, but I do alot of it. So thats important and not something to be po pooed...

I hope your just BSing but I will have to look into this more now.
 
Anybody heard anything recently? The interwebs appear to be quiet.
I think there was an interview with a Sony exec either here or on rumors.com and he basically said they're thinking about it as a firmware upgrade at some point. But for now - no. So if it comes out with lossless raw in a month, we'll know they worked on it real fast.
 

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