Thinking about this more, and taking on board comments both pro and con in this and the previous thread, I suppose I could summarize my concerns that it is a question of fairness.

Reviews on a respected site like DPReview should above all else be fair -- both within the individual review and between reviews.

The G7 should have been reviewed as the latest offering in the Panasonic G line within the context of Panasonic's overall digital camera offerings -- the GF, GX, GM, G, and GH lines -- just as other competing cameras with other brands are. It should be allowed to demonstrate its strengths and its weaknesses and stand or fall on its merits. The review should be fair but firm based on performance.

Mention can be made of the competition, but that should be towards the end, not in the lead, and it should be realistic, not imaginary. Again, the degree to which that intrudes should be governed by the degree that intrudes into other reviews. (DPReview has a good place for cross-brand comparisons in their comparisons reviews.)

And the reviews need to be consistently produced.

As I pointed out, the G7 review is the first G line review for four years -- since the G3 -- years during which very significant development has taken place. Given that the G1 gave birth to m43 and the line remains the central spine in Panasonic's m43 battery, this is amazing.

Why am I so passionate about it? Simple -- I value fairness highly and I value reputable review sites/publications equally highly.

In a world where we are being crushed under an avalanche of products which we can never hope to significantly test ourselves, and a world of instant communications where those suffering whatever rush of blood to the head or simple malevolence can anonymously post damaging comments based on total ignorance that reach out to eternity, fair, truthful, factual information is to be valued beyond diamonds and gold.

DPReview needs to make sure its reviews are up to standard and its processes likewise so that it is providing a service that we users can rely on.

--

Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
http://rabaulpng.com/we-are-all-traveling-throug/i-waited-51-years-for-tavur.html
 
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For God's same Hen3ry, give it a rest !!!!!!
 
The slavish devotion to mechanization and brand (in the name of enlightened ideals, no less) demonstrated on this thread is really disturbing. It boggles the mind...

There are so many much more meaningful tragedies in the world and THIS is where energy ends up being willfully directed?
 
1+

Yeh Geoffrey!

Harvo
 
Sorry... can't hear you under the sound of that shutter shock wave.
 
The slavish devotion to mechanization and brand (in the name of enlightened ideals, no less) demonstrated on this thread is really disturbing. It boggles the mind...

There are so many much more meaningful tragedies in the world and THIS is where energy ends up being willfully directed?
I was under the impression that this was a photographic instrument discussion forum specific to Micro 4/3 sensor-type cameras. Hmm. Perhaps I was mistaken and we should be debating the Greek crisis or the Common Agriculture Policy.
 
Well said again and right to the point.
 
Wow.

horse.gif
 
- Competition has IBIS 3-5 axis. Very useful for videos too.
In camera stabilization is nice, I guess, certainly better than nothing. I have a strong preference for in lens stabilization since it is equally effective and improves the view through the EVF. If I had a lot of non stabilized lenses, I would certainly prefer in camera IS, though.

Jack
Current gen Oly IBIS provides a stabilized view through the viewfinder, and compensates for types of moment that are impossible with OIS, namely roll.
 
That's good news! In camera IBIS with a stabilized EVF view would certainly be great. I was basing my post on personal experience with Canon (stabilized lens) and recent Sony a77 with in camera IS. Sigma quit making stabilized lenses for Sony and I had the 18-250, non stabilized. It wasn't a stable view.

I currently have a Pentax DSLR that his in camera IS, The view is not stable at all through the OVF when using long zoom lenses.

I guess I should not have generalized and I'm glad you brought the Oly IS to my attention.

Jack
 
If someone ask me for advice a camera, can you imagine what I had to say to him/her?

"It's a great camera, but don't shoot mechanical between 1/100-1300 SS to avoid blurry image". "Or you can try e-shutter, but don't shake-pan the camera and it may not work indoors due to artificial lightings".
Where do you get that range from? Richard mentioned 1/100, I don't recall him saying there is a problem with shutter shock at all shutter speeds or the majority of the shutter speeds... He certainly didn't say, using the mechanical shutter makes the Panny useless...
 
I understand why 4K is very desirable, but have you considered that the 25mm f1.8 Oly lens will not work very well at all due to lack of IBIS? Buying a G7 for 4k videos will means you can only use Panny lens with OIS and will always be inferior to Oly 5-Axis.
Huh? Why wouldn't the Oly 25mm not work well because of the lack of IBIS? Last I checked, I'm using my Panny 25mm 1.4 quite effectively on my Panny body. If you are talking about strictly video then you are generally speaking, wrong again. If you are so concerned about stability, you are forgetting that the G7 is 4k. Take the Oly E-M5 MK II. It's only 1080P (and in general, Oly codecs are rather inferior to Panny's at same resolution). Yes, the MKII has incredible IBIS...but the fact that the G7 is 4K, it means it has enough resolution that you can record in 4k and use software stabilization, down sample to 1080P and it would still be of better quality thank the IBIS Oly 1080P (assuming you are generally being steady with the G7). Yes, IBIS would be nice but I would still take a Panny 4K camera over an Oly 1080P IBIS camera when it comes to video.
What is more enjoyable at the moment?

4K videos that has more motions or 1080p with less motions?
Again, 4K with software stabilization down sampled to 1080P (with added bonus of the ability to zoom, slide etc. in software) and still better quality video? Yeah, I would take the Panny.
If you wait for a Oly camera with 4K + IBIS, any Oly or Panny or Manual lens will be video perfect.
Wait, wait, wait...it's always wait when it comes to Oly video. Are we supposed to wait till the MKIII comes out? You can't say EM2 because that would be competing with the GH4. So we would have to, at the very least, wait for another half a year before a mid-range Oly with 4K has even the potential of coming out. And even when it comes out, looking back at history, Oly has yet to get video right. Yes, they are getting better but they have always been behind in their codec quality even without the fact that they are always behind in resolution.
Or maybe a GX8 (hopefully IBIS is enabled in video with 4K)? The choices of lens available to you "as a system" is many times more. Two more months before the announcement of the GX8.
Last I checked, GH4 (and now G7) has great video. The lack of IBIS doesn't make them useless with manual lenses. Heck, most GH4 users, as far as I can tell, ARE using manual lenses when doing video and they seem to be doing well as I'm sure people would do the same with the G7. Wait for the GX8? Sure. Yes, it would be nice if it has IBIS but I know I would probably get one regardless as it would still have superior video to anything Oly (unless EM2 comes out with incredible video...which is still rather doubtful).
There is no right or wrong choices here. If one can overlook the limitations of the G7, one can be perfectly happy with it.

I just want you to have the G7 that should have been:

24MP BSI, 15 C-AF, EFCS, 4K video, 5-Axis IBIS.

One day, Panny will get it right.
What? Last I checked, nothing Oly even comes close to that as well so why expect Panny to do the same? Besides, G7 is NOT their flagship camera so why in hell would they bring out a G7 that would be quite a step higher than the GH4? Would Oly come out with an E-PL8 or E-M5 MKIII that would totally blow out their upcoming E-M2? Of course not, so why would you expect Panny to do the same?

Yeah, one day Panny will get it right...just like some day Oly would get it right also (since they haven't yet either).

Sorry, the lack of IBIS, regardless of what some Oly fans are convinced at, is NOT something 'wrong' with Panny. It's just a feature, albeit a very nice feature, that Panny doesn't really have.

The shutter shock problem is worrisome but as Richard has said, it's not a big problem as you can only notice it when looking side by side with a non-shutter shocked image. And it's only around the 1/100 range. I.e. not nearly as bad as some of the other Panny (or Oly) camera that had shutter shock problems.

--
Hubert
My non-digital gear: Agfa Isolette, Ricoh Ricohflex VII, Voigtlander Bessa R, Voigtlander Bessa L, Zorky 4, Fed 2, Konica Big Mini, Konica Auto S2, Pentax K1000, Yashica Electro 35 GX, Recesky
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2034/2457111090_00eafbf8a4_m.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peppermonkey/
Are you a sport fan by any chance?

Like you, I really like the Lakers and what Kobe brings to the table.

But with a losing record like that, you just have to admit the competition is that much better.

You can only look forward to the draft season and hope something miraculous happens.

Denying the superior advantages of the 5-axis IBIS for video is quite unrealistic.

GH4 shooting manual lens is possible when you have this. I prefer Oly solution though.



3001fee1e95b4d6e87cd203719f88cec.jpg.png



--
The higher consciousness is colorless, odorless, and without form. Therefore, it's prudent to not judge others based upon their physical qualities.
 
The slavish devotion to mechanization and brand (in the name of enlightened ideals, no less) demonstrated on this thread is really disturbing. It boggles the mind...

There are so many much more meaningful tragedies in the world and THIS is where energy ends up being willfully directed?
I was under the impression that this was a photographic instrument discussion forum specific to Micro 4/3 sensor-type cameras. Hmm. Perhaps I was mistaken and we should be debating the Greek crisis or the Common Agriculture Policy.
"Hmmm":
Why am I so passionate about it? Simple -- I value fairness highly and I value reputable review sites/publications equally highly.

In a world where we are being crushed under an avalanche of products which we can never hope to significantly test ourselves, and a world of instant communications where those suffering whatever rush of blood to the head or simple malevolence can anonymously post damaging comments based on total ignorance that reach out to eternity, fair, truthful, factual information is to be valued beyond diamonds and gold.
This sounds like satire... but I don't think it is.

The bottom line is that the fetish-object received an 80% score and a silver medal. What is the problem?
 
I have to say, as a G6 owner who is interested in the G7, that I am indebted to Henr3ry (Geoffrey) for taking the time (in a number of postings) to set out in such detail his "second visit" to the G7 review.

Thank you Hen3ry and all the other knowledgeable forum members who have provided me with much useful information.

To the moaners, it's best that I don't make any comments ...

--
Paul.
PS: However, I definitely won't consider buying the G7 until I'm certain that the serial number cannot be rubbed out!
 
The slavish devotion to mechanization and brand (in the name of enlightened ideals, no less) demonstrated on this thread is really disturbing. It boggles the mind...

There are so many much more meaningful tragedies in the world and THIS is where energy ends up being willfully directed?
I was under the impression that this was a photographic instrument discussion forum specific to Micro 4/3 sensor-type cameras. Hmm. Perhaps I was mistaken and we should be debating the Greek crisis or the Common Agriculture Policy.
"Hmmm":
Heh, heh. You criticize the energy being directed at this matter -- but you are following it and directing your energy to it, pocket, so you are as much a slave as anyone.

You are misreading the matter though; from where I sit, it is not a "slavish devotion to mechanization and brand" -- I am not a great brand follower -- it is the need to have good, reliable information that I value.

Incidentally, I live in a world where I confront tragedies on a daily basis large and small the like of which you have never seen, I suspect.
Why am I so passionate about it? Simple -- I value fairness highly and I value reputable review sites/publications equally highly.

In a world where we are being crushed under an avalanche of products which we can never hope to significantly test ourselves, and a world of instant communications where those suffering whatever rush of blood to the head or simple malevolence can anonymously post damaging comments based on total ignorance that reach out to eternity, fair, truthful, factual information is to be valued beyond diamonds and gold.
This sounds like satire... but I don't think it is.
Sounds like satire? I don't see that at all.
The bottom line is that the fetish-object received an 80% score and a silver medal. What is the problem?
What fetish object? The so-called "bottom line" is not the major point here. That is largely the reviewer's opinions about things formalized into some sort of table. It is the headline stuff that matters in this consumer world -- what is in the first few lines of the story which either draws readers in or puts them off.

The first impression conveyed in the G7 review is negative.

Perhaps you have limited understanding of marketing communications.

--
Geoffrey Heard
Down and out in Rabaul in the South Pacific
http://rabaulpng.com/we-are-all-traveling-throug/i-waited-51-years-for-tavur.html
 
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I'm so glad you responded the review, Geoffrey. Well written and very detailed.

I am surprised that there have been very few shots posted though. Very sad! I sure hope this camera doesn't fall through the cracks like other Panasonic m4/3 cameras, I was hoping there'd be some competition for the Olympus cameras. ;)

Anyway, it is mentioned about the shutter shock. If I recall didn't the EM1 have the same complaint when it first came out? Can shutter shock be taken care of with an update?

Again thanks so much for responding, in depth, to the review. I really appreciate it!
 
The slavish devotion to mechanization and brand (in the name of enlightened ideals, no less) demonstrated on this thread is really disturbing. It boggles the mind...

There are so many much more meaningful tragedies in the world and THIS is where energy ends up being willfully directed?
I was under the impression that this was a photographic instrument discussion forum specific to Micro 4/3 sensor-type cameras. Hmm. Perhaps I was mistaken and we should be debating the Greek crisis or the Common Agriculture Policy.
"Hmmm":
Heh, heh. You criticize the energy being directed at this matter -- but you are following it and directing your energy to it, pocket, so you are as much a slave as anyone.
Not by my word count so far, I'm not.
Incidentally, I live in a world where I confront tragedies on a daily basis large and small the like of which you have never seen, I suspect.
I know you do, and maybe that's why I'm particularly dismayed that this has been blown so out of proportion. I appreciate the wealth of human content you share with us here probably more than anyone else's.

But I certainly don't appreciate the condescending presumption that I "have never seen" tragedy -- or that confronting it on a daily basis is some kind of vaguely imperialistic badge of honor. (If it means anything to you, I spent my childhood years in Manila, Rabat, Delhi, and Cairo.)
geoff, post: 56119925, member: 780150"]
Why am I so passionate about it? Simple -- I value fairness highly and I value reputable review sites/publications equally highly.

In a world where we are being crushed under an avalanche of products which we can never hope to significantly test ourselves, and a world of instant communications where those suffering whatever rush of blood to the head or simple malevolence can anonymously post damaging comments based on total ignorance that reach out to eternity, fair, truthful, factual information is to be valued beyond diamonds and gold.
This sounds like satire... but I don't think it is.
Sounds like satire? I don't see that at all.
Fish in water situation I suppose.
The bottom line is that the fetish-object received an 80% score and a silver medal. What is the problem?
What fetish object? The so-called "bottom line" is not the major point here. That is largely the reviewer's opinions about things formalized into some sort of table. It is the headline stuff that matters in this consumer world -- what is in the first few lines of the story which either draws readers in or puts them off.
That's what I don't get. Why do you care?
The first impression conveyed in the G7 review is negative
You've already made up your mind about the thing, so why is DPR's say -- or anyone else's -- of any value to you? No one is stopping you from buying and enjoying a G7 in all its shimmering perfection.
Perhaps you have limited understanding of marketing communications.
Maybe just a limited understanding of the crusade to save the G7's inconsequential reputation.

"Marketing communications"... Ugh. Maybe you're right. All that means to me is the predatory/parasitic propaganda machine of an alienated and materialistic techno-society.

Sorry you're having such a hard time with this whole thing.
[/QUOTE]
 
The slavish devotion to mechanization and brand (in the name of enlightened ideals, no less) demonstrated on this thread is really disturbing. It boggles the mind...

There are so many much more meaningful tragedies in the world and THIS is where energy ends up being willfully directed?
I was under the impression that this was a photographic instrument discussion forum specific to Micro 4/3 sensor-type cameras. Hmm. Perhaps I was mistaken and we should be debating the Greek crisis or the Common Agriculture Policy.
"Hmmm":
Heh, heh. You criticize the energy being directed at this matter -- but you are following it and directing your energy to it, pocket, so you are as much a slave as anyone.
Not by my word count so far, I'm not.
Incidentally, I live in a world where I confront tragedies on a daily basis large and small the like of which you have never seen, I suspect.
I know you do, and maybe that's why I'm particularly dismayed that this has been blown so out of proportion. I appreciate the wealth of human content you share with us here probably more than anyone else's.

But I certainly don't appreciate the condescending presumption that I "have never seen" tragedy -- or that confronting it on a daily basis is some kind of vaguely imperialistic badge of honor. (If it means anything to you, I spent my childhood years in Manila, Rabat, Delhi, and Cairo.)
geoff, post: 56120495, member: 796516"]
Why am I so passionate about it? Simple -- I value fairness highly and I value reputable review sites/publications equally highly.

In a world where we are being crushed under an avalanche of products which we can never hope to significantly test ourselves, and a world of instant communications where those suffering whatever rush of blood to the head or simple malevolence can anonymously post damaging comments based on total ignorance that reach out to eternity, fair, truthful, factual information is to be valued beyond diamonds and gold.
This sounds like satire... but I don't think it is.
Sounds like satire? I don't see that at all.
Fish in water situation I suppose.
The bottom line is that the fetish-object received an 80% score and a silver medal. What is the problem?
What fetish object? The so-called "bottom line" is not the major point here. That is largely the reviewer's opinions about things formalized into some sort of table. It is the headline stuff that matters in this consumer world -- what is in the first few lines of the story which either draws readers in or puts them off.
That's what I don't get. Why do you care?
The first impression conveyed in the G7 review is negative
You've already made up your mind about the thing, so why is DPR's say -- or anyone else's -- of any value to you? No one is stopping you from buying and enjoying a G7 in all its shimmering perfection.
Perhaps you have limited understanding of marketing communications.
Maybe just a limited understanding of the crusade to save the G7's inconsequential reputation.

"Marketing communications"... Ugh. Maybe you're right. All that means to me is the predatory/parasitic propaganda machine of an alienated and materialistic techno-society.

Sorry you're having such a hard time with this whole thing.
 
I sure hope this camera doesn't fall through the cracks like other Panasonic m4/3 cameras, I was hoping there'd be some competition for the Olympus cameras. ;)

Anyway, it is mentioned about the shutter shock. If I recall didn't the EM1 have the same complaint when it first came out? Can shutter shock be taken care of with an update?
Yes, not just the E-M1, but also the E-P5, E-M5 and E-M10 exhibited shutter shock. Olympus remedied this in all of the above via firmware updates except the E-M5 (figures, I own one ;-) ), so I'd imagine Panasonic may be able to do so with the G7 as well.

I personally like the design and great combination of features of the G7:
  • DFD for great AF tracking
  • Hi-res EVF matching that of the E-M5 II
  • 4K video
  • comprehensive range of video resolutions
  • 8MB 4K stills
  • 1/16,000 sec shutter
  • articulated touch-LCD
  • built-in flash
  • nice grip
Where else can you find such a combination at the G7's price? Got me. In fact I'm surprised at how well it compares to (and in some cases exceeds) the E-M5II given its lower cost. The G7 certainly deserves its day in the sun.

Richard's "issues", other than the SS which is valid, really boil down to minor niggles. Maybe he was just having a bad day, but he really should let another editor comb out the derogatory tone that crops up on numerous occasions.

I can understand that for someone who reviews many cameras occasionally one, for whatever reason, just doesn't get along with you. When this happens either hand the review off or take all the more care to remain objective.

For myself, now that Sony has proven in the A7R MkII that IBIS and 4K can co-exist, I'm sitting it out until this ideal combination appears at the G7's price point. Could be awhile.

--
Sailin' Steve
 
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Are you a sport fan by any chance?

Like you, I really like the Lakers and what Kobe brings to the table.

But with a losing record like that, you just have to admit the competition is that much better.

You can only look forward to the draft season and hope something miraculous happens.

Denying the superior advantages of the 5-axis IBIS for video is quite unrealistic.

GH4 shooting manual lens is possible when you have this. I prefer Oly solution though.
is better at video because it has 5-axis IBIS?

Sorry, I hardly think most video enthusiast would choose any Oly camera over a GH4. Not saying IBIS on the Oly isn't great, because it is, and it would be wonderful if Panny would incorporate it into their cameras but most enthusiast would choose greatly superior video IQ over IBIS.

Do you like street car racing? Panny is like the Porche 918 Spyder while the Oly is like the Subaru BRZ but loaded with Nitro. Sure the BRZ has the advantage of a greater short burst of speed but at the end of the day, the superior speed of the Spyder would take down the BRZ. It's the same here with Panny vs Oly in video. Video IQ of the Panny is so much better than the Oly video that most video enthusiast would choose the GH4.
 

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