Df focusing screen swaps - sobering thoughts

JacquesBalthazar

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It is generally admitted across internet forums that the focusing screens of modern DSLRs are not suited for manual focusing of fast lenses. This is said to be due to the inability of those screens to discriminate focus changes at apertures larger than f2.8, and to a perceived lack of precision of the electronic rangefinder (the "green dot").

It is also generally admitted that proper manual focus of fast lenses would require old fashioned ground glass focusing screens, such as the ones used in film SLRs of the golden age.

The conversation invariably then goes on to lament the fact that current Nikon DSLRs, Df included, do not provide for interchangeable focusing screens, and that the only solution is to use third party modified screens that can be found on line.

Also invariably, the promoters of such solutions go on saying that it is quite easy to change screens (check YouTube for instructions) and that the whole manual focus experience then becomes reliable, straightforward, robust, etc.

Well, I have just gone through the process, and would like to share a word of warning for anyone tempted to do same. Not saying my exprience is the universal truth, but it is my experience...:

1. Changing the screen is not that easy. It can be very fiddly, till you get used to the manipulation.

2. The screens are dust suckers. As you fiddle around, dust specks settle both on the focusing screen and on the glass panel within the body. Those specks are invisible when you manipulate the contraption but are horribly intrusive when you check the viewfinder.

3. Getting rid of those dust specks implies to re-do the whole process, try and clean the screens (not that easy) and try again. This paradoxically encourages additional specks. Much worse than cleaning a sensor.

4. All those manipulations end up causing mishaps, such as touching the screen with a sweaty finger. That leaves smudge traces that are impossible to clean up, and are also very intrusive when you look through the viewfinder.

5. When you think you are done, you are not done at all, unless you are very lucky. You need to test the calibration of the screen, and are likely to realise that you back focus if you rely on what you see . Which means you need to add one or two shims (again go through the whole fiddly process).

Finally, when you are calibrated and you test your camera with your favourite f1.4 or f2 wide angle or standard lens, you are reminded that the focusing aids of those screens (split image, microprisms, ground glass itself, etc) are in fact NOT that reliable at all.

You are reminded as to how imprecise they can be, and you remember your first photo classes decades ago when wise teachers explained that, up to 75mm or thereabouts, well calibrated rangefinders were much more precise than the SLR focusing aids. You remember why people preferred Leica for fast focusing at wide-to-normal focal lengths, and why AF was such a blessing when it was invented.

You then pathetically realise that the "green dot" of your Df works way better than the darn split image gimmick, and that you just traded a perfectly bright viewfinder for a messy smudge of a screen.

As I said, some might have a different experience, but I hope this word of warning might be useful to others.
 
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you just saved me days of wondering, fiddling, and realizing that i made a big mistake. thank you :)
 
As a temporary clean room, run hot water in the bathroom with the door shut and the fan off. It makes the dust heavy till it dries again.

About the screens. Nikon makes the cameras, complain. They need to bring back interchangable focus screens as a feature of the camera. I think they say that a third party screen voids warranty too so tell them, complain and keep complaining and if dpr runs a poll again without the viewfinder as a desirable, complain.
 
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Thanks. Exactly how I imagined it!
 
Well, that dissuaded me from ever trying this. I have a hard enough time putting screen protectors on without dust and fingerprints, not to mention changing out focusing screens. Sounds like a nightmare scenario. :D
 
It is generally admitted across internet forums that the focusing screens of modern DSLRs are not suited for manual focusing of fast lenses. This is said to be due to the inability of those screens to discriminate focus changes at apertures larger than f2.8, and to a perceived lack of precision of the electronic rangefinder (the "green dot").

It is also generally admitted that proper manual focus of fast lenses would require old fashioned ground glass focusing screens, such as the ones used in film SLRs of the golden age.

The conversation invariably then goes on to lament the fact that current Nikon DSLRs, Df included, do not provide for interchangeable focusing screens, and that the only solution is to use third party modified screens that can be found on line.

Also invariably, the promoters of such solutions go on saying that it is quite easy to change screens (check YouTube for instructions) and that the whole manual focus experience then becomes reliable, straightforward, robust, etc.

Well, I have just gone through the process, and would like to share a word of warning for anyone tempted to do same. Not saying my exprience is the universal truth, but it is my experience...:

1. Changing the screen is not that easy. It can be very fiddly, till you get used to the manipulation.

2. The screens are dust suckers. As you fiddle around, dust specks settle both on the focusing screen and on the glass panel within the body. Those specks are invisible when you manipulate the contraption but are horribly intrusive when you check the viewfinder.

3. Getting rid of those dust specks implies to re-do the whole process, try and clean the screens (not that easy) and try again. This paradoxically encourages additional specks. Much worse than cleaning a sensor.

4. All those manipulations end up causing mishaps, such as touching the screen with a sweaty finger. That leaves smudge traces that are impossible to clean up, and are also very intrusive when you look through the viewfinder.

5. When you think you are done, you are not done at all, unless you are very lucky. You need to test the calibration of the screen, and are likely to realise that you back focus if you rely on what you see . Which means you need to add one or two shims (again go through the whole fiddly process).

Finally, when you are calibrated and you test your camera with your favourite f1.4 or f2 wide angle or standard lens, you are reminded that the focusing aids of those screens (split image, microprisms, ground glass itself, etc) are in fact NOT that reliable at all.

You are reminded as to how imprecise they can be, and you remember your first photo classes decades ago when wise teachers explained that, up to 75mm or thereabouts, well calibrated rangefinders were much more precise than the SLR focusing aids. You remember why people preferred Leica for fast focusing at wide-to-normal focal lengths, and why AF was such a blessing when it was invented.

You then pathetically realise that the "green dot" of your Df works way better than the darn split image gimmick, and that you just traded a perfectly bright viewfinder for a messy smudge of a screen.

As I said, some might have a different experience, but I hope this word of warning might be useful to others.
Wow, sorry to hear you had such a bad time, and bad result. I must have been very lucky. I actually thought I'd screwed up something fierce when I accidentally removed the little metal clip that holds the screen in place. But with some tweezers and a good bright light, I was able to get the clip back into place. Once I'd solved that problem, the rest of the process took about a minute, didn't create any dust issues, and the screen focussed incredibly well right off the bat. I think the green dot is more precise than the split prism, but the split prism makes getting really REALLY close much closer because it shows you whether you're getting closer or farther from focus and once the two halves come together, they're together. However, the green dot does stay illuminated through a shorter range of focus movement than the split prism shows focus. So I use the split prism and then when I get really really close, I keep the corner of my eye on the green dot.

I found the whole process and the finished product to be pretty easy and well worth the effort...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
 
Yes Ray, I am sure it can work. But it can just as easily become very irritating. The shimming process is especially critical. You were lucky if you did not have to go through that, as we are talking microns and you need to have the exact right shims at hand to nail it. And you end up not being 100% sure you did. Loads of induced FUD. I went through the process Saturday and spent Sunday using the camera. Found myself looking for reassurance with green dot just as before, and chimping twice as much. We'll see longer term, if I find an advantage the way you did, but I suspect my percentage of keepers will not increase. Just hate the smudge and dust spots and the uncertainty.
 
I used a split screen and microprism interchangeable focus screens with a Nikon F and later models. They worked well with Tri-X film printed at 8x10". Pixel peeping a D810 image is an entirely different world. What's more, I can't say I nailed focus every time with prism rangefinders. PDAF seemed like a significant improvement to me.

I suspect Nikon had good reason for discontinuing interchangeable focus screens after the D2x. Even those screens didn't have the split or microprism rangefinders. If such devices had proved more reliable than the PDAF green dot, I think Nikon would still be offering them.

I think the best way to improve one's ability to manually focus without the green dot is using Nikon's DK-17m magnifying eyepiece on DSLRs with the round eyepiece. Haven't tried the version for the rectangular eyepiece.
 
I...

I think the best way to improve one's ability to manually focus without the green dot is using Nikon's DK-17m magnifying eyepiece on DSLRs with the round eyepiece. Haven't tried the version for the rectangular eyepiece.

--
I only just got a D610. But playing a bit, what has surprised me is just how much better and relatively easy manual focus is compared to the D300.

I am not a real fan of the green dot. I only used it to confirm that my own eye-focus was accurate and it seems so.

But the images with the large viewfinder seem to snap into place very nicely.
 
I...

I think the best way to improve one's ability to manually focus without the green dot is using Nikon's DK-17m magnifying eyepiece on DSLRs with the round eyepiece. Haven't tried the version for the rectangular eyepiece.

--
I only just got a D610. But playing a bit, what has surprised me is just how much better and relatively easy manual focus is compared to the D300.

I am not a real fan of the green dot. I only used it to confirm that my own eye-focus was accurate and it seems so.

But the images with the large viewfinder seem to snap into place very nicely.
 
I suspect Nikon had good reason for discontinuing interchangeable focus screens after the D2x. Even those screens didn't have the split or microprism rangefinders. If such devices had proved more reliable than the PDAF green dot, I think Nikon would still be offering them.
I seem to have come to that conclusion as well. The green dot is probably the most reliable focusing aid. There is plenty of room to improve the ergonomics of that green dot though, for those who prefer to use manual focus lenses.

I think the best way to improve one's ability to manually focus without the green dot is using Nikon's DK-17m magnifying eyepiece on DSLRs with the round eyepiece. Haven't tried the version for the rectangular eyepiece.
I have tried. I wear glasses, and corrected shades when sunny, and the DK17 makes it even more difficult to keep track of the green dot and of the rest of the viewfinder info.

This experience feels like a good refresher of some forgotten basics, and why the (D)SLR has evolved the way it did.

Critical focus in 2015 is not the same as acceptable focus in 1985....
 
It is generally admitted across internet forums that the focusing screens of modern DSLRs are not suited for manual focusing of fast lenses. This is said to be due to the inability of those screens to discriminate focus changes at apertures larger than f2.8, and to a perceived lack of precision of the electronic rangefinder (the "green dot").
This is perceived rather than real. I've seen numerous reports noting how accurate the digital rangefinder in the Df is. I'm certainly very, very confident at F2 and 50-50 at F1.2 using the green dot. I use a split screen in my FM3a, I don't think it's as accurate as the green/white dot system in the latest Nikon FX DSLRs (Df onwards).

It is also generally admitted that proper manual focus of fast lenses would require old fashioned ground glass focusing screens, such as the ones used in film SLRs of the golden age.

The conversation invariably then goes on to lament the fact that current Nikon DSLRs, Df included, do not provide for interchangeable focusing screens, and that the only solution is to use third party modified screens that can be found on line.

Also invariably, the promoters of such solutions go on saying that it is quite easy to change screens (check YouTube for instructions) and that the whole manual focus experience then becomes reliable, straightforward, robust, etc.

Well, I have just gone through the process, and would like to share a word of warning for anyone tempted to do same. Not saying my exprience is the universal truth, but it is my experience...:

1. Changing the screen is not that easy. It can be very fiddly, till you get used to the manipulation.

2. The screens are dust suckers. As you fiddle around, dust specks settle both on the focusing screen and on the glass panel within the body. Those specks are invisible when you manipulate the contraption but are horribly intrusive when you check the viewfinder.

3. Getting rid of those dust specks implies to re-do the whole process, try and clean the screens (not that easy) and try again. This paradoxically encourages additional specks. Much worse than cleaning a sensor.

4. All those manipulations end up causing mishaps, such as touching the screen with a sweaty finger. That leaves smudge traces that are impossible to clean up, and are also very intrusive when you look through the viewfinder.

5. When you think you are done, you are not done at all, unless you are very lucky. You need to test the calibration of the screen, and are likely to realise that you back focus if you rely on what you see . Which means you need to add one or two shims (again go through the whole fiddly process).

Finally, when you are calibrated and you test your camera with your favourite f1.4 or f2 wide angle or standard lens, you are reminded that the focusing aids of those screens (split image, microprisms, ground glass itself, etc) are in fact NOT that reliable at all.

You are reminded as to how imprecise they can be, and you remember your first photo classes decades ago when wise teachers explained that, up to 75mm or thereabouts, well calibrated rangefinders were much more precise than the SLR focusing aids. You remember why people preferred Leica for fast focusing at wide-to-normal focal lengths, and why AF was such a blessing when it was invented.

You then pathetically realise that the "green dot" of your Df works way better than the darn split image gimmick, and that you just traded a perfectly bright viewfinder for a messy smudge of a screen.

As I said, some might have a different experience, but I hope this word of warning might be useful to others.
 
This is perceived rather than real. I've seen numerous reports noting how accurate the digital rangefinder in the Df is. I'm certainly very, very confident at F2 and 50-50 at F1.2 using the green dot. I use a split screen in my FM3a, I don't think it's as accurate as the green/white dot system in the latest Nikon FX DSLRs (Df onwards).
After the sobering focusing screen experience of last week-end, I am increasingly convinced that is true. I'll give the alternative screen a couple more weeks to be sure.

The only real issue with the "green dot" is its location at the bottom left of the screen. Its functionality should be improved visually (colour change on AF patch overlay when in focus) and/or sonically (a discreet optional beep when hitting focus), just like when AF is used.
 
My experience (with a D200) matches yours : dust issues, and the manual focus is not any more precise than the AF.

While pushing the tab to release a holding frame with a screwdriver some have had bad luck, the screwdriver slipping and scratching the surface of the sensor. Others have broken the clip that holds the frame. Both repairs are not cheap.

Risky and no benefit, the potential to deal with dust issues, all good reasons not to do it.
 
I haven't changed mine on my DF mainly because of the potential issues involved. I use a combination of the Nikon eyepiece magnifier, the screen and the green dot. The magnifier works fine if you don't wear eyewear. I would love to be able to move that green dot somewhere else on the screen so that I don't have to move my eye down while focusing or as Jacques mentioned, be able to enable a discreet beep in mf mode.
 
Ideally, the focusing method should have less depth of field than the lens. That only happens with long base rangefinder cameras. When you stop down the SLR lens, the split image screen darkens. In effect, focusing accuracy is the same whether it is f1.4 verses f5. The old film SLRs with interchangeable screens offered an optional screen calibrated to fast lens.
 
I have ordered a new DF, and at the same time ordered a split image screen from focusingscreens.com. In the past I installed katzeye screens in both a D7000 and a D700, without any particular problems in either case. The shims already in the camera need to remain in place. From the video instructions it seems both brands of focusing screens install the same way, so I am not anticipating a problem installing in the DF. I find that using the split image screens, along with the green dot for confirmation, results in accurate focus with my legacy Ai converted lenses, and gives me a shooting experience similar to my old film Nikons. Sorry your experience has not been as positive.
 
I have ordered a new DF, and at the same time ordered a split image screen from focusingscreens.com. In the past I installed katzeye screens in both a D7000 and a D700, without any particular problems in either case. The shims already in the camera need to remain in place. From the video instructions it seems both brands of focusing screens install the same way, so I am not anticipating a problem installing in the DF. I find that using the split image screens, along with the green dot for confirmation, results in accurate focus with my legacy Ai converted lenses, and gives me a shooting experience similar to my old film Nikons. Sorry your experience has not been as positive.
My experience as well. I don't know how well I explained it above, but I still need the green dot for precise focus, but I find the split screen overwhelmingly better for getting really close than the green arrows. With the arrows, you can't really see how close you're getting, so you sometimes turn right through the focus point and sometimes slow your movement prematurely. With the split screen, you just intuitively see when you're as close as you can get and only then need to locate the dot to fine tune that last tiny amount.

I agree with the others that the split prism isn't as precise as the green dot, but I still think it adds a lot to focussing speed and the manual focus experience, by making it very fast and intuitive to get about 99% of the way there before you have to catch the dot out of the corner of your eye.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
 

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