XZ-2 and related cams: ready for the beach!

elliottnewcomb · Jun 6, 2015

The Flash.

It is, and it ain't flimsy. Flexing it back to bounce is a great feature, it takes getting used to, but Mickey likes/needs flash, so here's what I know:

1. Use it. Over nearly 4 years, there have been very few problems reported using it. So jamb it back in there, it more than likely won't break.

2. As you know, Many don't use little internal flashes, especially more advanced users, they prefer using their skills to avoid it's use. Also, past internal flashes were not flexible therefore bounce-able., therefore more problematic. Rx100’s bouncable flash is better than most. I shoot low light motion in music clubs, I use flash often, I adjust it's strength shot to shot, the point is, it is the best P&S flash I have ever owned/used..

3. I feared it’s flash would be too weak, but it is surprisingly strong, I reduce its strength often. In Auto, the best way to cut its strength is to bounce it, which also avoids glare, if you can avoid too strong shadows. Moving back the right distance can also solve shadows and weaken its effect. Another way to weaken it, is to use it again soon. If it does not charge fully, it won’t be too bright. Trial and error, but, if you must be too close, and it’s too bright, it’s something that can be tried. No film involved, take several shots, variously timed, get a keeper.

4. m1 flash is better located than m3. m1, far left corner, is an advantageous location to use your left finger to hold the camera steady, level, and flex it back. m3, center location, is harder, more awkward to reach, and flex, while holding it steady with the left hand. It's a shame they couldn't get the popup EVF in the middle, and leave the flash left, but ... Another reason to back up to weaken its effect if the user cannot flex it.

4. m3 Auto Flash Use. If you leave the flash on Auto Flash in the settings, and you do not push the physical switch to raise it, that prevents its use. Want Auto flash in Auto: raise it. Flash a problem, leave it down, it prevents Auto from using it when you don't want it.

elliottnewcomb · Jun 8, 2015

elliottnewcomb said:
The Flash.

It is, and it ain't flimsy. Flexing it back to bounce is a great feature, it takes getting used to, but Mickey likes/needs flash, so here's what I know:

1. Use it. Over nearly 4 years, there have been very few problems reported using it. So jamb it back in there, it more than likely won't break.

2. As you know, Many don't use little internal flashes, especially more advanced users, they prefer using their skills to avoid it's use. Also, past internal flashes were not flexible therefore bounce-able., therefore more problematic. Rx100’s bouncable flash is better than most. I shoot low light motion in music clubs, I use flash often, I adjust it's strength shot to shot, the point is, it is the best P&S flash I have ever owned/used..

3. I feared it’s flash would be too weak, but it is surprisingly strong, I reduce its strength often. In Auto, the best way to cut its strength is to bounce it, which also avoids glare, if you can avoid too strong shadows. Moving back the right distance can also solve shadows and weaken its effect. Another way to weaken it, is to use it again soon. If it does not charge fully, it won’t be too bright. Trial and error, but, if you must be too close, and it’s too bright, it’s something that can be tried. No film involved, take several shots, variously timed, get a keeper.

4. m1 flash is better located than m3. m1, far left corner, is an advantageous location to use your left finger to hold the camera steady, level, and flex it back. m3, center location, is harder, more awkward to reach, and flex, while holding it steady with the left hand. It's a shame they couldn't get the popup EVF in the middle, and leave the flash left, but ... Another reason to back up to weaken its effect if the user cannot flex it.

m1, flash on left, easy to flex it and shoot

m3 EVF up, Flash Centered & Up, flash harder to reach and flex back,

Notice above, the tiny diopter adjustment lever on the top edge of the EVF.

First you have to pop the EVF, then you have to pull the rear rectangle toward you, otherwise it won't focus, then, for the person using it, you need to move the tiny lever left or right. Then, you need to be careful you do not press the moving part of the EVF forward, it will go out of focus. It takes getting used to.

Perhaps only one person, like Mickey's Mom will use it, depends on how familiar an aide might become.

To set the diopter: You watch the text shown in the viewfinder, like the bottom info line shown in the bottom of the lcd, adjust it for the text, (not what's in the image portion).

When you pop up the EVf, it turns the camera on. to store it, you need to push the rectangle forward into the metal housing, then press down into the body. It turns the camera off when you push it down. Of course you can use the normal on/off button.

elliottnewcomb said:
4. m3 Auto Flash Use. If you leave the flash on Auto Flash in the settings, and you do not push the physical switch to raise it, that prevents its use. Want Auto flash in Auto: raise it. Flash a problem, leave it down, it prevents Auto from using it when you don't want it.

I highly recommend an adjustable wrist strap, especially as various people will be handling the slippery little thing. The Sony has very small eyelets, so you need a strap with the thin string at the end, and a lot of patience. Some use dental floss to get thru the eyelet, then drag the thin thread thru.

Shown is an Olympus Adjustable Wrist Strap, $4.00 I use it on all my small cameras.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N=10601277&InitialSearch=yes&sts=pi

And, I recommend putting something on top of the shutter button, so you can find it with your finger, it is smooth and flat, and too close to the also smooth and flush power button. I have a silicone bumper on my m3, and a felt bumper on my m1. I also helps avoid shutter press shake.

Probably, the best way to use the flash is to leave the EVF down, raise the flash, and learn to hold the camera in a way that gives you your left index finger free to flex the flash as needed. More than likely when flash is needed, there won't be too much glare in the lcd.

--
Elliott

elliottnewcomb · Jun 10, 2015

Mickey,

You may find there are a few settings you would occasionally have a shooter change. If so, the Fn button Menu is a short menu you go straight to, change something, ready to shoot.

No searching or remembering where something is in the huge menu.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3856052

That was written using the m1 as an example. If you ever want something in your m3, I can give you the step by step.

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

NarrBL said:
Mickey, just to say it sounds quite good that you and your helper gained a little understanding before she's moved on.

Of course she shouldn't have brought her problems in on you, but better to know that's what happened, and we can hope she herself will take the lesson forwards for others.

Ok, pelicans ahoy, and sunshine on the waves...

C.

Hey Clive, I'm back but sadly no pelicans wanted to reunite. I will post an in depth and some photos after I finish reading the newest posts.....life is a beach

Regards

Mickey

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

elliottnewcomb said:
Mickey can speak for himself, and take or ignore any advice he wants, now, or in the future.

To clarify, using AUTO, change 2 things. Turn it on, use it, nothing to remember.

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

Andrea Georgia said:
Good to hear, Mickey, and apologies for the MP correction, I know that you know. I'm happy to see that you are really warming up to the cam.

The difference in focal length between 70 mm and 100 mm (100 mm is considered to be a "perfect" FL for portraits, if there is such a thing) is in fact quite substantial, as you can also see in the Sony v Canon test shots I posted, although, as you say, it's not quite earth shattering. The difference is certainly visible when it comes to subject isolation and background blur. But as you know, you can still get very nice portraits with 70 mm also. Remember the much shorter 45 mm equiv. childrens portraits I posted in the previous thread, they showed how well a shorter FL can work especially with an open aperture and when held closer to the subject, so the background disappears in blur (although these were taken with a larger APS-C sensor, but still).

Have a wonderful time at the beach, and bring us back some nice photos, if you like!

Cheers,
Andrea

Hi Andrea, portraits are not taken very often, I made it sound like this would be a selfie camera

Only for facebook but point well taking on the fl and mm. Actually few portraits were taking at the beach and when taken, no zoom was used.....more on that.

Cheers

Mickey

Cane · Jun 15, 2015

NarrBL said:
In the middle of good conversation, and my chance to say I think Lisetta's last insight was very acute -- my own personal rule, camera always in the strap, for all the reasons including avoiding grit, or in the soft case where nothing can get to it.

It's not so hard, and doesn't interfere

C.

It does interfere with being attractive to the opposite sex.

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

guydr said:
Hi Mickey

Sorry I was away for a couple of weeks, but I followed this thread on my phone. Congratulations with your new camera and the progress you've already made with it. Your friends here provide you with very useful information, maybe it looks like a bit too much at a short time. I'm agree with that CIZ or digital zoom, don't use it if you don't need it. Enjoy your beach trip and let all that information sink in bit by bit, don't think about changing camera's and enjoy your RX100m3.

I'm gone leave this friendly thread , so Mickey, Clive, Andrea and Lisetta best to all.;-)

Kind regards

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

Lisetta1 said:
guydr said:

Hi Mickey

Sorry I was away for a couple of weeks, but I followed this thread on my phone. Congratulations with your new camera and the progress you've already made with it. Your friends here provide you with very useful information, maybe it looks like a bit too much at a short time. I'm agree with that CIZ or digital zoom, don't use it if you don't need it. Enjoy your beach trip and let all that information sink in bit by bit, don't think about changing camera's and enjoy your RX100m3.

I'm gone leave this friendly thread , so Mickey, Clive, Andrea and Lisetta best to all.;-)

Kind regards

Click to expand...

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

elliottnewcomb said:
The Flash.

It is, and it ain't flimsy. Flexing it back to bounce is a great feature, it takes getting used to, but Mickey likes/needs flash, so here's what I know:

1. Use it. Over nearly 4 years, there have been very few problems reported using it. So jamb it back in there, it more than likely won't break.

2. As you know, Many don't use little internal flashes, especially more advanced users, they prefer using their skills to avoid it's use. Also, past internal flashes were not flexible therefore bounce-able., therefore more problematic. Rx100’s bouncable flash is better than most. I shoot low light motion in music clubs, I use flash often, I adjust it's strength shot to shot, the point is, it is the best P&S flash I have ever owned/used..

3. I feared it’s flash would be too weak, but it is surprisingly strong, I reduce its strength often. In Auto, the best way to cut its strength is to bounce it, which also avoids glare, if you can avoid too strong shadows. Moving back the right distance can also solve shadows and weaken its effect. Another way to weaken it, is to use it again soon. If it does not charge fully, it won’t be too bright. Trial and error, but, if you must be too close, and it’s too bright, it’s something that can be tried. No film involved, take several shots, variously timed, get a keeper.

4. m1 flash is better located than m3. m1, far left corner, is an advantageous location to use your left finger to hold the camera steady, level, and flex it back. m3, center location, is harder, more awkward to reach, and flex, while holding it steady with the left hand. It's a shame they couldn't get the popup EVF in the middle, and leave the flash left, but ... Another reason to back up to weaken its effect if the user cannot flex it.

4. m3 Auto Flash Use. If you leave the flash on Auto Flash in the settings, and you do not push the physical switch to raise it, that prevents its use. Want Auto flash in Auto: raise it. Flash a problem, leave it down, it prevents Auto from using it when you don't want it.

NarrBL · Jun 15, 2015

Hi Mickey, and that is a great note from your photo friend.

He gives me a chance to say where I think the full 20MP might be useful to you.

As he says, what you take are photos of family and friends, to remind of times. And from your interests, I think wildlife as well, and scenic shots.

These all contain stories, and often not just the ones we think we were shooting. What about that pair in conversation in the background, or the persons walking over in the trees, or an object small but of memory in the picture, like that horseshoe I found looking through your mother's garden shots?

For myself, I really like these small things contained in the picture. I got particularly interested when involved with the Sigma-Foveon cameras, which take remarkably detailed shots, if they have their other limitations so are really a specialty item.

This is the 'walking around inside the picture' which we talked about earlier, and which I thought might be particularly an enjoyment to you -- sort of the mysteries to be noticed and stories uncovered, in your own photographs.

The other thought recently was just in how much you seemed to enjoy the detail, and why not - these days there's plenty of memory room for the full-resolution pictures.

Anyway, as all of this, it's up to you, your own choice, as ever. If your friend wants to try some things, should be interesting. It's always nice to see about abilities, and he has a nice attitude about it -- think he's interested in what this new camera can do.

What you might do, and what you want to do, always interesting choices there, suspect you also think...

Will read more as I can over the day, expect to hear your nice time. The pelicans, well, they go their own way also, don't they, doesn't mean they forget anything...next time...

Clive

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

elliottnewcomb said:
m3 EVF up, Flash Centered & Up, flash harder to reach and flex back,

Notice above, the tiny diopter adjustment lever on the top edge of the EVF.

First you have to pop the EVF, then you have to pull the rear rectangle toward you, otherwise it won't focus, then, for the person using it, you need to move the tiny lever left or right. Then, you need to be careful you do not press the moving part of the EVF forward, it will go out of focus. It takes getting used to.

Perhaps only one person, like Mickey's Mom will use it, depends on how familiar an aide might become.

To set the diopter: You watch the text shown in the viewfinder, like the bottom info line shown in the bottom of the lcd, adjust it for the text, (not what's in the image portion).

When you pop up the EVf, it turns the camera on. to store it, you need to push the rectangle forward into the metal housing, then press down into the body. It turns the camera off when you push it down. Of course you can use the normal on/off button.

Honestly Elliott, I doubt the EFV will ever be used, now my friend really liked it after he adjusted it, even took his glasses off. But I may get Mom to just try it once.........

elliottnewcomb said:
I highly recommend an adjustable wrist strap, especially as various people will be handling the slippery little thing. The Sony has very small eyelets, so you need a strap with the thin string at the end, and a lot of patience. Some use dental floss to get thru the eyelet, then drag the thin thread thru.

Shown is an Olympus Adjustable Wrist Strap, $4.00 I use it on all my small cameras.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N=10601277&InitialSearch=yes&sts=pi

The camera came with a wrist strap and yes it was hard to get on, the neck strap even harder. You would recommend this strap over the one Sony provided?

elliottnewcomb said:
And, I recommend putting something on top of the shutter button, so you can find it with your finger, it is smooth and flat, and too close to the also smooth and flush power button. I have a silicone bumper on my m3, and a felt bumper on my m1. I also helps avoid shutter press shake.

Can you order the silicone bumper?

Probably, the best way to use the flash is to leave the EVF down, raise the flash, and learn to hold the camera in a way that gives you your left index finger free to flex the flash as needed. More than likely when flash is needed, there won't be too much glare in the lcd.

--
Elliott

I wish I would had thought to raise the flash while at the beach but I didn't......thanks

Mickey

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

elliottnewcomb said:
Mickey,

You may find there are a few settings you would occasionally have a shooter change. If so, the Fn button Menu is a short menu you go straight to, change something, ready to shoot.

No searching or remembering where something is in the huge menu.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3856052

That was written using the m1 as an example. If you ever want something in your m3, I can give you the step by step.

NarrBL · Jun 15, 2015

Mickey1962 said:
NarrBL said:

Mickey, just to say it sounds quite good that you and your helper gained a little understanding before she's moved on.

Of course she shouldn't have brought her problems in on you, but better to know that's what happened, and we can hope she herself will take the lesson forwards for others.

Ok, pelicans ahoy, and sunshine on the waves...

C.

Click to expand...

Hey Clive, I'm back but sadly no pelicans wanted to reunite. I will post an in depth and some photos after I finish reading the newest posts.....life is a beach

Regards

Mickey

Yes, indeed, and considered both ways

C.

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

NarrBL said:
Hi Mickey, and that is a great note from your photo friend.

He gives me a chance to say where I think the full 20MP might be useful to you.

As he says, what you take are photos of family and friends, to remind of times. And from your interests, I think wildlife as well, and scenic shots.

These all contain stories, and often not just the ones we think we were shooting. What about that pair in conversation in the background, or the persons walking over in the trees, or an object small but of memory in the picture, like that horseshoe I found looking through your mother's garden shots?

For myself, I really like these small things contained in the picture. I got particularly interested when involved with the Sigma-Foveon cameras, which take remarkably detailed shots, if they have their other limitations so are really a specialty item.

This is the 'walking around inside the picture' which we talked about earlier, and which I thought might be particularly an enjoyment to you -- sort of the mysteries to be noticed and stories uncovered, in your own photographs.

The other thought recently was just in how much you seemed to enjoy the detail, and why not - these days there's plenty of memory room for the full-resolution pictures.

Anyway, as all of this, it's up to you, your own choice, as ever. If your friend wants to try some things, should be interesting. It's always nice to see about abilities, and he has a nice attitude about it -- think he's interested in what this new camera can do.

What you might do, and what you want to do, always interesting choices there, suspect you also think...

Will read more as I can over the day, expect to hear your nice time. The pelicans, well, they go their own way also, don't they, doesn't mean they forget anything...next time...

Clive

Hey Clive, yes my Pelican clan will never forget me..

Yes I think 20mp will bring out the full detail indeed, my photo friend will put this all to the test he said. You mentioned the horseshoe, at 10mp you'd never saw it probably. I'm not disappointed at the camera at the beach, just my sister......more on that..

Thanks bud

Mickey

NarrBL · Jun 15, 2015

Well, how you talk can also make a difference this way, no?

Cane, here we are most interested in family children and not-so-attentive medical attendants handling the camera.

So that's the focus, thanks.

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

Sadly to say, it wasn't good.....we were at the beach 4 days before my sister even took my camera out to take some photos. I had Mom take a few before but she was really sick from a UTI, so no it was still 4 days before the camera was even used. My niece went again, she is 20 and wasn't happy, as usual. I mention her because she has a DSLR and took photography lessons but hasn't used her cam in a year or two, I told her I had the best p&s probably ever made and would she put it to the test..she just spouted I doubt it about it being the best. I told my sister to half press and hold steady but I didn't go with her as I couldn't. But at the big rock fish tourney, when she took them she held the camera out with one hand far out and just snapped.....no half press, hold steady. She even mentioned once I was driving her crazy about taking some ;pictures early hold so I was quite. Don't get me wrong, we both love each other to death but there was a lot of drama this year at the beach with several people, including her daughter..my niece and two other couples. The flash was never used and mainly gold auto only, no hdr. The flash was badly needed at times..but no half press, no hold steady, just point and shoot away in green auto. Now some photos were great, but these few do not pass the eye test to me...too dark?

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3284990063

I thought the detail here was outstanding, beautiful.......

Must go eat but be back

Mickey

NarrBL · Jun 15, 2015

Hi again, Mickey - sorry to hear of all the drama on your holiday, but that's families sometimes, or groups of friends, so it's quite understandable. Lots of novels from the south about this also...!

Anyway, I had a very quick look at the images showing in the album, about seven of them, plus the chair.

- actually, they all look very well exposed for the high contrast light of the beach neighborhood and sky.

- Notice in particular how clean and beautiful the clouds and sky are -- this is what a point and shoot would have just whited out. I think the scene recognition was really working here, plus the gradation control and big sensor. Really, those skies look great. Remember I live next to the ocean here, if not so calm and warm a one as yours.

- sometimes the shadow side of buildings or greenery are a little dim, but not so it hurts the picture, and that's likely the best estimate an automation can make. Easily brought up if you need to using Photoshop, but I think the images are fine as-is. They show the brightness, without any blowout and with all the detail of the sky, and they show the dwellings - that is as things are.

- yes, a number are blurred by careless holding, no doubt. It's just a dynamics of the situation that people don't seem to be able to think a bit for your pictures. Maybe next time, and after they've seen some better results you get with this special camera.

- even so, the one with people in the surf and a flag etc. nearby is beginning to really show the potential. There is camera movement blur, but nearly compensated, and you can begin to really see what there is in the detail. In fact some people's beach shots are not better than those tiny people would be blown up a bit. You can claim it is atmosphere

So, a real people-holiday. I am glad you got some shots of it, even if not in good attention. You certainly were getting enough sun this time, from that shot on the boardwalk,

All in all, it will be much better going on. You are mentioning all the things that were forgotten this time, but which will get you the pictures you want, moving forward. A step at a time, and as we always know, what others will do with us as important aspect.

On my way out for now,
Clive

Andrea Georgia · Jun 15, 2015

Hi Mickey,

Great to see you back, and you look great on the pier photo! I second everything Clive said about the pictures - and family vacations. ;-) I quickly checked your pictures on my calibrated desktop monitor, and they are spot on in terms of colour and exposure (and yes, some are a bit blurred bec. of camera shake). If the sky and the sea and houses are so very bright, esp. in a wide angle landscape shot that captures everything, then the darker shadows and greenery will appear indeed quite a bit darker in comparison, that's totally normal, and as Clive said, can be fixed in post (lift the shadows). Only a DSLR with a much bigger sensor could offer more dynamic range, but even then, the shrubs would look dark in such high contrast situations. I am very much impressed by the IQ of this camera, all the amazing detail and sharpness across the frame - only the very outer corners are a bit soft, as they would be in most WA shots.

Nice notes by your friend, I'd definitely take him up on his offer, and perhaps also ask him to give you a few nice portrait tips e.g. re. positions, light, and locations inside and outside the house. As to the digital zoom though, it's not quite as he says: it's not like cropping in post where you'd get a clean but smaller image. Instead, the camera guesses and adds or fills in "artificial" or extra pixels at the latest once it zooms past 2x its max. optical zoom length in 10 MP crop factor, i.e. it applies 2x or more digital zoom: this is called interpolation and results in considerable softness and digital artifacts, as we've seen and discussed before. The degree of this can vary depending on the extent of the digital zoom. I don't want to get back into this, but it visibly deteriorates the image quality, negatively affecting sharpness, dynamic range and contrast (as it also did in my first set of soft and blotchy Canon shots, remember?), and this can indeed be seen in smaller prints and on the monitor also. Simple cropping in post on the other hand will result in clean images - they are just smaller. With such a high MP sensor, you can crop a lot - crop half of the image and you get a nice and clean 10 MP result. This would bring you up to 140 mm. I really enjoyed letting my eye wandering around your images that capture so much detail and so sharply. Why sacrifice that?

Cheers,
Andrea

Mickey1962 · Jun 15, 2015

NarrBL said:
Hi again, Mickey - sorry to hear of all the drama on your holiday, but that's families sometimes, or groups of friends, so it's quite understandable. Lots of novels from the south about this also...!

Anyway, I had a very quick look at the images showing in the album, about seven of them, plus the chair.

- actually, they all look very well exposed for the high contrast light of the beach neighborhood and sky.

- Notice in particular how clean and beautiful the clouds and sky are -- this is what a point and shoot would have just whited out. I think the scene recognition was really working here, plus the gradation control and big sensor. Really, those skies look great. Remember I live next to the ocean here, if not so calm and warm a one as yours.

- sometimes the shadow side of buildings or greenery are a little dim, but not so it hurts the picture, and that's likely the best estimate an automation can make. Easily brought up if you need to using Photoshop, but I think the images are fine as-is. They show the brightness, without any blowout and with all the detail of the sky, and they show the dwellings - that is as things are.

- yes, a number are blurred by careless holding, no doubt. It's just a dynamics of the situation that people don't seem to be able to think a bit for your pictures. Maybe next time, and after they've seen some better results you get with this special camera.

- even so, the one with people in the surf and a flag etc. nearby is beginning to really show the potential. There is camera movement blur, but nearly compensated, and you can begin to really see what there is in the detail. In fact some people's beach shots are not better than those tiny people would be blown up a bit. You can claim it is atmosphere

So, a real people-holiday. I am glad you got some shots of it, even if not in good attention. You certainly were getting enough sun this time, from that shot on the boardwalk,

All in all, it will be much better going on. You are mentioning all the things that were forgotten this time, but which will get you the pictures you want, moving forward. A step at a time, and as we always know, what others will do with us as important aspect.

On my way out for now,
Clive

Thanks for the input Clive and as I was eating I thought, a quick touch up with photoshop on a few. Yes no half press or steady hold, so if they still look good to you then awesome..I forgot my vitamins/herbs so I got sunburned bad........here are some more......