Are we going to see a $1200 a7000 body?

captura · Jun 14, 2015

What will you do if they don't?

captura · Jun 14, 2015

Stealth NEX-7 replacement?

So, the folk over at SAR are telling us that maybe — just maybe — Sony might drop a FF NEX-7 replacement in the chute at PhotoKina. What I want is an A7000, not a NEX-7Alpha (or whatever). And there's the first problem: what is Sony going to call this beast? A6? Well they'll need to dumb it...

www.dpreview.com

snapa · Jun 14, 2015

RGBaker said:
RGBaker said:

Ari Aikomus said:

Yep - I want new, like NEX7 size HQ APS-C body with IBIS and BSI sensor...for $1000-1200

Click to expand...

Nope - I want the a6100 to come with BSI sensor, IBIS and new and improved kit zoom lens for ~$900. THAT is more than enough to ask for Sony to ask for an APS-C camera with a decent kit lens!!! Anything more would be a ludicrous price for any APS-C camera and kit lens!

Click to expand...

So Canikon prices for their top APS-C cameras are wrong ..? I think the market has already determined higher prices are acceptable, even if it is more than you personally are ready to pay.

Acceptable to who and for how much IQ increase, that is the questions ;/

Without much better kit lens zooms, the a6100 will pretty much be useless as an upgrade for those who do not want to add multiple primes. A 24MP sensor needs better zoom lenses to go with it, M-Pix 6 quality is not enough for the price it will demand, at least 8-9 is what is needed.

--
Life is short, make the best of it while you can!
http://grob.smugmug.com/

RGBaker · Jun 14, 2015

snapa said:
RGBaker said:

snapa said:

Ari Aikomus said:

Yep - I want new, like NEX7 size HQ APS-C body with IBIS and BSI sensor...for $1000-1200

Click to expand...

Nope - I want the a6100 to come with BSI sensor, IBIS and new and improved kit zoom lens for ~$900. THAT is more than enough to ask for Sony to ask for an APS-C camera with a decent kit lens!!! Anything more would be a ludicrous price for any APS-C camera and kit lens!

Click to expand...

So Canikon prices for their top APS-C cameras are wrong ..? I think the market has already determined higher prices are acceptable, even if it is more than you personally are ready to pay.

Click to expand...

Acceptable to who and for how much IQ increase, that is the questions ;/

Without much better kit lens zooms, the a6100 will pretty much be useless as an upgrade for those who do not want to add multiple primes. A 24MP sensor needs better zoom lenses to go with it, M-Pix 6 quality is not enough for the price it will demand, at least 8-9 is what is needed.

nzmacro · Jun 15, 2015

FF Pro said:
Whatever comes out as an upgrade to the current a6000, are we going to see a double or more in price?

I wouldn't mind having a much improved sensor that handles noise in low light better, much better AF at night (football at night), and improved battery life. I don't really yern for IBIS but I would take it as long as size (didn't grow) and battery life are not decreased.

The advantage with IBIS is that you can always turn it off, its not compulsory that you have to use it. Then that still leaves it for others that might well love it.

What you have there I think you will find everyone would be happy with. Generally when they come out with a new sensor, or higher megapixels is that they also deal with noise to suit. Well from what I've seen over the years anyway.

I also use an Oly E-M10 that does use IBIS if wanted. If battery is the issue, then a couple of spare batteries is a good idea and heck, they don't exactly take up too much room.

All the best and don't make it out to be bigger than it really is ;-) Bring on a NEX-9 ...oops, I mean an A7000.

Danny.

Pieterbaan · Jun 15, 2015

Who knows what Sony will do? There are som indicators that you might be right!

Sony is changing tactics to get the best out of their investment in the camera market. We can see that in the new releases they made:

All the new cameras are made better, better sensors, more features, higer IQ etc. and sell that at a higher price, make the new cameras more "premium". At the same time they keep the cheaper models on sale, so people wanting good (but not the best) cameras for a lower price they can stay with Sony!

So for the A6000 it is very well possible that a high end A7000 (the "real" Nex 7 successor) will come. How that camera will look like is hard to tell (only Sony knows) but here are some things that could be in that camera:

BSI high resolution sensor (say around 30MP) good in low light (trumps the Samsung NX1)
Better AF (The sysem that is in the A6000 and then a bit better)IBIS: (maybe with super high res mode with sensor shift)
Magnesium Alloy body
Tri Navi
The best EVF
Weather sealing
4K video
Mic input

This camera will cost you a lot (probably the $1200 you talk about, but it will be a true Nex 7 successor, but ptobably in a larger body to give room to all these goodies. So peopel will start to complain about the larger size. They have to be remembered that there is no such thing as a free lunch....

rodderslw · Jun 15, 2015

ericN2 said:
FF Pro said:

Whatever comes out as an upgrade to the current a6000, are we going to see a double or more in price?

I wouldn't mind having a much improved sensor that handles noise in low light better, much better AF at night (football at night), and improved battery life. I don't really yern for IBIS but I would take it as long as size (didn't grow) and battery life are not decreased.

Click to expand...

I think you've got to ask yourself just HOW far you could expect a camera like the A6000 to be uprated or upgraded ...WITHIN its size... Most of the features you speak of.. although very commendable for lots of folk. really are to an extent the kind of things that usually you would moreso tend to think of when on a much ..or moreso..bigger camera body. If the A6000+ is given many of these added features it's likely that some degree of size increase would have to take place (look at a number of other cameras in other makers ranges that have had increased features but at some change in size..
Anyway when you get a lot of those features it often is the thing you go for by buying such as in this case an A7 type..that's my thinking anyway - you can't have it both ways..the A6000 as it is, is a remarkable camera.. if that is not enough..go for the A7..why not ??

jpr2 · Jun 15, 2015

but I-st lets start with the one advantage you did not mention:

a stabilized VF - in fast action shooting, with SS of 1/1000 sec and shorter, the effects IS might have on the final image captured are negligible (if any at all, and they can even be detrimental - there are some well documented cases all over the net);
then the only advantage of IS is to have a stabilized image in VF,

so, some other disadvantages and costs:

as IBIS is a physical machinery and simply must take some place (the size depends on sensor's form factor - tiny with the m43, larger for APS-C, and pretty bid for FF);
it adds to the complexity of a camera, and hence increases the chance of failures (and maintenance costs);
it increases the final price;
it eats energy (so stabilized VF is not a free lunch);

So, given the choice I'd rather have a non-IBIS one = smaller, cheaper, and more "green" energy-wise

all the best,

Quercy

Jerry R · Jun 15, 2015

[No message]

davect01 · Jun 15, 2015

I'm just hoping to see a new model, we have heard nothing from Sony.

The great success of the A6000 is due partly to the price point of under $600.00, (I got mine for $500.00).

captura · Jun 15, 2015

jpr2 said:
but I-st lets start with the one advantage you did not mention:

a stabilized VF - in fast action shooting, with SS of 1/1000 sec and shorter, the effects IS might have on the final image captured are negligible (if any at all, and they can even be detrimental - there are some well documented cases all over the net);

then the only advantage of IS is to have a stabilized image in VF,

so, some other disadvantages and costs:

as IBIS is a physical machinery and simply must take some place (the size depends on sensor's form factor - tiny with the m43, larger for APS-C, and pretty bid for FF);

it adds to the complexity of a camera, and hence increases the chance of failures (and maintenance costs);

it increases the final price;

it eats energy (so stabilized VF is not a free lunch);

So, given the choice I'd rather have a non-IBIS one = smaller, cheaper, and more "green" energy-wise

all the best,

Quercy

istreetshooter · Jun 15, 2015

snapa said:
Ari Aikomus said:

Yep - I want new, like NEX7 size HQ APS-C body with IBIS and BSI sensor...for $1000-1200

Click to expand...

Nope - I want the a6100 to come with BSI sensor, IBIS and new and improved kit zoom lens for ~$900. THAT is more than enough to ask for Sony to ask for an APS-C camera with a decent kit lens!!! Anything more would be a ludicrous price for any APS-C camera and kit lens!

diy_lens · Jun 15, 2015

I DO see the value of IBIS, fantastic way to increase usability of an existing legacy lens collection.

However, bulk, complexity, cheaper to buy a small tripod

are things I look at.

I can see IBIS for the FF cameras to be used with legacy glass. But, for the NEX/a series I think they should focus on BSI. A BSI sensor, with greater sensitivity with less noise, could make it a draw im comparison to a CMOS/IBIS.

I just think of how I take photos, I carry a tripod, might use long exposure for effect with water or stars. If there was a way to mechanically "dock" the IBIS sensor, I'd do it. I had noticed that my Nikon VR lens took noticebly less sharp photos as time went on. Yes yes yes, I know a lens element weighs more than a CMOS but it worries me.

nzmacro · Jun 15, 2015

electronbee said:
I DO see the value of IBIS, fantastic way to increase usability of an existing legacy lens collection.

However, bulk, complexity, cheaper to buy a small tripod are things I look at.

I can see IBIS for the FF cameras to be used with legacy glass. But, for the NEX/a series I think they should focus on BSI. A BSI sensor, with greater sensitivity with less noise, could make it a draw im comparison to a CMOS/IBIS.

I just think of how I take photos, I carry a tripod, might use long exposure for effect with water or stars. If there was a way to mechanically "dock" the IBIS sensor, I'd do it. I had noticed that my Nikon VR lens took noticebly less sharp photos as time went on. Yes yes yes, I know a lens element weighs more than a CMOS but it worries me.

RGBaker · Jun 15, 2015

nzmacro said:
electronbee said:

I DO see the value of IBIS, fantastic way to increase usability of an existing legacy lens collection.

However, bulk, complexity, cheaper to buy a small tripod are things I look at.

I can see IBIS for the FF cameras to be used with legacy glass. But, for the NEX/a series I think they should focus on BSI. A BSI sensor, with greater sensitivity with less noise, could make it a draw im comparison to a CMOS/IBIS.

I just think of how I take photos, I carry a tripod, might use long exposure for effect with water or stars. If there was a way to mechanically "dock" the IBIS sensor, I'd do it. I had noticed that my Nikon VR lens took noticebly less sharp photos as time went on. Yes yes yes, I know a lens element weighs more than a CMOS but it worries me.

--
www.georgesopko.com

Click to expand...

Agreed, that's why I say the advantage with IBIS is that you can turn it off. That way you can please everyone.

Mechanically docking of the sensor, well I've never noticed anything with the E-M10 with it not being solidly docked. If I did, the camera would go in the bin. The shots are as sharp as the NEX-7 without IBIS, in fact side by side I can't tell what took what, but then I take different subjects to most as well.

So throw IBIS in and you can turn it off. ;-) I wouldn't worry about the sensor not being docked solidly, otherwise all hell would have broken loose in threads about it for sure by now.

All the best.

Danny.

--
Birds, macro, motor sports.... http://www.birdsinaction.com
Flickr albums ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/124733969@N06/sets/
The need for speed ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

Even more to the point -- the a6000 doesn't have IBIS, so presumably a step-up model could ... if you don't want IBIS, buy the 6x00 line. You want IBIS (and whatever else they can squeeze into a top of line APS-C compact mirrorless) you buy the (still hypothetical) a7x00. Sony can differentiate vertically, including more features in the 'higher' line ...

That's my hope & also my expectation -- the a6000 is very good, has a secure sector of the market. Make incremental improvements but keep it in the 6000 family. The anticipated a7000 is not a replacement, it is a different line -- that's the model Sony and others have used for years.

Cheers,
GB

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffbaker/sets/72157632181672263/

nzmacro · Jun 15, 2015

jpr2 said:
but I-st lets start with the one advantage you did not mention:

a stabilized VF - in fast action shooting, with SS of 1/1000 sec and shorter, the effects IS might have on the final image captured are negligible (if any at all, and they can even be detrimental - there are some well documented cases all over the net);

then the only advantage of IS is to have a stabilized image in VF,

so, some other disadvantages and costs:

as IBIS is a physical machinery and simply must take some place (the size depends on sensor's form factor - tiny with the m43, larger for APS-C, and pretty bid for FF);

it adds to the complexity of a camera, and hence increases the chance of failures (and maintenance costs);

it increases the final price;

it eats energy (so stabilized VF is not a free lunch);

So, given the choice I'd rather have a non-IBIS one = smaller, cheaper, and more "green" energy-wise

all the best,

Quercy

--
~
Nex-7 classic:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157629823874033/
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~

Hang on mate and I'll dig you something out .........

E-M10 with IBIS on

Typical shooting for me as you know

Now lets look at a heavy crop, sharpening, warts and all and it is a silly crop

I was one of the first ones to say that you don't need IBIS as well Q, I don't use it all the time, but with a 500mm hand held, its not bad at all ;-) Not perfect, but not bad.

But yeah, at higher shutter speeds its not needed, but with a 500mm things might change quite a bit compared to std focal length lenses Q.

It would eat energy for sure, but spare batteries are cheap now days and small of course. Slower speeds its probably pretty darn good as well, but I shoot only in good daylight.

All the best Q, just off to work and I'll catch up later.

Danny.

--
Birds, macro, motor sports.... http://www.birdsinaction.com
Flickr albums ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/124733969@N06/sets/
The need for speed ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

jpr2 · Jun 15, 2015

nzmacro said:
jpr2 said:

but I-st lets start with the one advantage you did not mention:

a stabilized VF - in fast action shooting, with SS of 1/1000 sec and shorter, the effects IS might have on the final image captured are negligible (if any at all, and they can even be detrimental - there are some well documented cases all over the net);

then the only advantage of IS is to have a stabilized image in VF,

so, some other disadvantages and costs:

as IBIS is a physical machinery and simply must take some place (the size depends on sensor's form factor - tiny with the m43, larger for APS-C, and pretty bid for FF);

it adds to the complexity of a camera, and hence increases the chance of failures (and maintenance costs);

it increases the final price;

it eats energy (so stabilized VF is not a free lunch);

So, given the choice I'd rather have a non-IBIS one = smaller, cheaper, and more "green" energy-wise

all the best,

Quercy

Click to expand...

Hang on mate and I'll dig you something out .........

E-M10 with IBIS on

Typical shooting for me as you know

Now lets look at a heavy crop, sharpening, warts and all and it is a silly crop

I was one of the first ones to say that you don't need IBIS as well Q, I don't use it all the time, but with a 500mm hand held, its not bad at all ;-) Not perfect, but not bad.

But yeah, at higher shutter speeds its not needed, but with a 500mm things might change quite a bit compared to std focal length lenses Q.

It would eat energy for sure, but spare batteries are cheap now days and small of course. Slower speeds its probably pretty darn good as well, but I shoot only in good daylight.

All the best Q, just off to work and I'll catch up later.

Danny.

...yet the EXIF says (in both cases, of course

) Nex-7 and SS of 1/1600 sec (way beyond a need to use IBIS <--- non existing of course on N7-classic),

best, Quecy

--
~
Nex-7 classic:

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157629823874033/

street candids (non-interactive):