Surprising Amount of Data in V3 NEF

I really shouldn't be surprised, but there's a lot of extra data in V3 raw files that isn't always readily visible with casual processing.

My wife and I recently hiked up Mt. Shichimen in Minobu, Japan - taking the shorter but steeper route, climbing thru approximately 4,400 feet of elevation gain in 5.3 miles. Having tried this route before - and failed - I knew I had to keep my load light. So I took a V3, 6.7~13, and 70-300CX, leaving my D810 + 300f2.8VRII + TC14EIII + SB910 in the care of the inn. It proved to be a good decision for me, since I barely made it to the Keishin-in Temple at the top (took 4hrs 50min)

The photos below are from the same NEF frame - the top one with little p/p done. But it was immediately apparent to me that the reason I took this shot was missing! The second photo shows Mt. Fuji in the background, precisely framed by the temple gate. As Thom Hogan and others preach: Near, Middle, Far. I thought the image was interesting because it incorporated all three elements - i.e., the details in the temple gate (Near), my wife (Middle), and Mt. Fuji (Far)... YMMV

With some manipulation of the raw file in ACR/CS6, I (somehow) managed to pull up enough shadow detail in the darker portions of the gate, while at the same time, using a combination of Levels, Contrast, and Highlight controls, and sheer dumb luck, I managed to pull an image of Mt. Fuji! Amazing!





Aloha,

Roy

Impressive skill Roy!

Congratulations Roy. What a stunning image! This is so cool on so many levels. Look forward to reading and seeing more of your adventures.

Roy,

Just a wonderful photograph!!

Congrats for sure.

Jack

Roy Kikuta said:

I really shouldn't be surprised, but there's a lot of extra data in V3 raw files that isn't always readily visible with casual processing.

My wife and I recently hiked up Mt. Shichimen in Minobu, Japan - taking the shorter but steeper route, climbing thru approximately 4,400 feet of elevation gain in 5.3 miles. Having tried this route before - and failed - I knew I had to keep my load light. So I took a V3, 6.7~13, and 70-300CX, leaving my D810 + 300f2.8VRII + TC14EIII + SB910 in the care of the inn. It proved to be a good decision for me, since I barely made it to the Keishin-in Temple at the top (took 4hrs 50min)

The photos below are from the same NEF frame - the top one with little p/p done. But it was immediately apparent to me that the reason I took this shot was missing! The second photo shows Mt. Fuji in the background, precisely framed by the temple gate. As Thom Hogan and others preach: Near, Middle, Far. I thought the image was interesting because it incorporated all three elements - i.e., the details in the temple gate (Near), my wife (Middle), and Mt. Fuji (Far)... YMMV

With some manipulation of the raw file in ACR/CS6, I (somehow) managed to pull up enough shadow detail in the darker portions of the gate, while at the same time, using a combination of Levels, Contrast, and Highlight controls, and sheer dumb luck, I managed to pull an image of Mt. Fuji! Amazing!

Aloha,

Roy

Click to expand...

DR has always been a Nikon thing, IMHO.... Great shot!

Thanks, guys! But what's really cool is the Temple at hike's end. Depending on whether you're a photographer, or a Nichiren (Buddhism) disciple, you'll have a different goal for climbing this mountain. Shichimen-san (lit. Shichimen mountain) is a nearly 6,000 ft elev mountain 30 km due west of Mt. Fujii. Twice a year, avid photographers will make the trek up this mountain to photograph the morning sun rising directly behind the Fujii summit - reportedly, an awesome sight. We purposely timed our ascent to avoid both snow and crowds (on our descent, we ran into a large group of about 400 people making the ascent). Hikers, photographers, and the devout all converge at Keishin-in Temple - just below the summit - all year round. What makes this Temple unusual is that visitors can stay overnight at dormitory facilities inside the Temple compound for a nominal fee. For those of us outdoors photographers looking for a place off the beaten (tourism) path - this trek provides some unique opportunities. I'll post a few more photos taken with the V3 later.

Wow, this is a perfect example of how an interesting image can become an outstanding one. I would guess that a lot of casual photographers would not remember what they had seen in the first place and never try to pull out what you have . Also, this is a great example of what digital imaging has done for the craft, art, hobby, profession, however one approaches it. In the "film days" we shot and if smart, bracketed and usually settled for the best version we got, unless we were darkroom wizards. Nice job!

Nice image and processing.

I mentioned in a post a couple of days ago how pleased I am with Fast Raw Viewer (Tord's recommendation). FRV allows you to see the RAW histogram (not the crippled JPG one we usually see) and judge how much data is really blown or blocked, and apply some corrections before passing on for PP (XMP attached). It does lots of other things as well

I think it would be really helpful in a case like this

tom

Me too, those were the days my friend... OK, not really, I do Not miss the darkroom at all, after spending 1/4 of my life in one. Roy, by the way, a Great Shot! Congrats.

--
Cheers

Great image recovery Roy! JPEG only shooters just don't know what they are missing!


- Jon

Very nice image indeed, Roy !

It really would have been a dull and useless image without your skills for pulling details out, and of course, the impressive DR that Nikon (or was it Sony?) managed to put in the V3 !

Congrats again, and I'm looking forward to see more images from this trek !



--
Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps or http://www.viewat.org/?sec=pn&id_aut=2489

jonikon said:

Great image recovery Roy! JPEG only shooters just don't know what they are missing!

- Jon

Click to expand...

While I certainly agree, I must say I shoot both and there are times when I wonder why. The Nikon JPG's really are awesome 80 or 90 or 98% of the time. My son shoots only JPG and I don't think he feels he misses much, if ever.

I know those times when I need raw and just shoot both but then compare to the JPG all the time to see if I'm on the right path. LOL!

Mike

pda4you said:

jonikon said:

Great image recovery Roy! JPEG only shooters just don't know what they are missing!

- Jon

Click to expand...

While I certainly agree, I must say I shoot both and there are times when I wonder why. The Nikon JPG's really are awesome 80 or 90 or 98% of the time. My son shoots only JPG and I don't think he feels he misses much, if ever.

I know those times when I need raw and just shoot both but then compare to the JPG all the time to see if I'm on the right path. LOL!

Mike

Click to expand...

One thing that proved -me- how better RAW is: yesterday I had a shoot and didn't correct the previous WB I had set on my D800.... Of course, all the images were totally off WB, but, a click in CNX2 and.... Tadaaa ! Everything was back to normal !

Try to correct a wrong WB in *.JPG images.... Good luck !

;-)


Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps or http://www.viewat.org/?sec=pn&id_aut=2489

JP Scherrer said:

Very nice image indeed, Roy !

It really would have been a dull and useless image without your skills for pulling details out, and of course, the impressive DR that Nikon (or was it Sony?) managed to put in the V3 !

Congrats again, and I'm looking forward to see more images from this trek !



--
Photo Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps or http://www.viewat.org/?sec=pn&id_aut=2489

Click to expand...

I had tried to post more images yesterday, but after locking up the screen twice during image uploads - I thought: maybe it's a sign that I ought not to be inflicting another one of my "stories" But, herewith - with some encouragement - try no. 3....


Shichimen-san (lit. Shichimen mountain) is a 6,525 foot elevation mountain approximately 82 miles south-west of Tokyo in Yamanashi Prefecture. While not visually breathtaking, nor as tall as Mt. Fuji - Shichimen-san is a sacred place visited by thousands of followers of the Nichiren Buddhist sect, each year. Right below the summit is Keishin-in Temple - the endpoint for this pilgrimage. All sorts of people make this hike - a rather tough elevation gain of about 4,400 feet - for a variety of reasons. My wife is a Nichiren follower - so this is a pilgrimage to a sacred place for her - I'm not a follower, but here to give her moral support and also because I'm an avid hiker and amateur photographer. It took us 4 hrs and 50 minutes of difficult hiking up a fairly well-graded, but stepped trail some 5.3 miles long. But enough about us - the real story is about experiencing a unique place called Keishin-in Temple near the summit.


Finally! We've reached the grounds of Keishin-in Temple. Amazement at the number and size of structures turn to puzzlement as we hear voices calling to us from the left... junior priests and caretakers of the Temple are greeting us... Irrashai (welcome).. ko'chi (this way). One unique aspect of this Temple is the ability to overnight and rest up before descending - and we had made reservations months in advance - so we were expected. There are no roads up this mountain, so everything you see here was lifted in by helicopters. The Temple installed power and communication lines from the town far below, as well as a small tramway that transports all daily necessities and supplies. Starting to get the picture? A unique place that mixes the old and the new.

[ATTACH alt="After a brief check-in, we're led to our room for the night. See the partition in the back? These can be slid aside to reveal another room exactly like ours..and so on, and so on - in order to accomodate large groups of people traveling together. The shoji doors on either side open up to hallways. We were lucky enough to get a "private" room because there were only about 50 people staying tonight."]media_3220504[/ATTACH]
After a brief check-in, we're led to our room for the night. See the partition in the back? These can be slid aside to reveal another room exactly like ours..and so on, and so on - in order to accomodate large groups of people traveling together. The shoji doors on either side open up to hallways. We were lucky enough to get a "private" room because there were only about 50 people staying tonight.


A view of a hallway with rooms on either side.


Evening meal served in each room, brought by temple workers. Vegetarian menu consisting of pickled vegetables, miso soup, seaweed, hot green tea, and steaming white rice. I'm a confirmed meat-eater, unfortunately, so I brought some emergency rations (see the Babe Ruth and 3 Musketeers candy bars?) Yes - that's sake on the tray Unexpected luxury in a Buddhist temple on a 6,000ft mountain.


Lights out at 9pm. Wake up at 4am. Your'e expected to attend prayer services - once after the evening meal, and again prior to breakfast. While you attend services, workers lay futon beds or take them up for you. We lucked out on the evening services - of the 50 overnighting, a group of 40 priests-in-training joined in prayer - adding a depth of voices chanting sutras. Not being a follower, I didn't really know what was going on, but I just sat, listened, and watched - soaking in the powerful aura. Out of respect, I didn't photograph during services.


A foggy, misty morning greeted us next morning for departure.


I leave this wonderful place with a tinge of regret - I would have liked to stay longer.


Now - I mentioned earlier that there were only about 50 people overnighting.. that was a Friday night - now it's Saturday, and as we descend, we pass groups of pilgrims totaling 400 in number!

[ATTACH alt="Finished! "Pau" as they say here in Hawaii. Nearly 5 hours up - and half that time for the descent. But I paid dearly for coming down too fast. For the last mile, my knees were completely wobbly - and once when I slipped and fell, I couldn't get back up without assistance - no strength left in my legs! "]media_3219329[/ATTACH]
Finished! "Pau" as they say here in Hawaii. Nearly 5 hours up - and half that time for the descent. But I paid dearly for coming down too fast. For the last mile, my knees were completely wobbly - and once when I slipped and fell, I couldn't get back up without assistance - no strength left in my legs!


Here's the best medicine for a tired body - a good long soak in an open-air natural hot spring water bath at a nearby inn. Aaaah! Aloha-Roy

Thanks Roy !

I think these images show us another "view" of Japanese culture ! ...which is very impoortant !



J-P.

Very interesting, thank you for sharing! Always amazing to me how people get used to sleeping on these tough mats. I like firm mattresses, but it's a long step away from woven mats on the floor.

OrdinarilyInordinate said:

Very interesting, thank you for sharing! Always amazing to me how people get used to sleeping on these tough mats. I like firm mattresses, but it's a long step away from woven mats on the floor.

Click to expand...

Yup - everything's relative... I used to tent camp in wilderness, with a thin insulating pad and down bag. Felt every rock and slid off the pad at night on sloping ground Firm tatami mats and futons in a remote Buddhist temple on a mountain summit were pure unexpected luxury! So tired (and so quiet you could hear a pin drop), I dopped off to deep sleep so quickly, I didn't have time to think about it.

It's no longer surprising. Sony sensors have been doing this sort of trick for some time. They do it even better when they have the info from a larger sensor to work with. I find I hardly ever have to use flashes any longer because of what can be pulled out from both highlight and shadow areas, especially when using RAW.