Owners of both Coolpix A and Ricoh GR - seeking your advice

Ray

I am sorry, I did not mean to insult you and I have obviously read it incorrectly. I think that your reviews of the cameras were generally very fair. Ricoh seems never to have acknowledged let alone fixed the runaway ISO in TAv mode.

I guess I became nettled when you found the "reds problem" and made some sport of it well before the camera was commonly available for others to make up their minds on that subject. Barely available and on short supply in the USA, it was some months before they were available in Australia. I got mine from the first local shipment.
I never "made sport" of the reds problem. I, and others, assumed it was an issue of getting the color profile right, not a flaw with the camera. Most of the "sport" or early discussions of it revolved around finding a color profile that worked before Adobe updated their support. I never viewed that as a negative of the camera or discussed it as such. Although I do remember clearly that you continuously accused me of doing exactly that when what I (and others) were doing was trying to SOLVE the issue because we didn't know how long it would take Adobe to get around to it! And so then I'd have to defend myself in those threads against your accusations (jeez, the more things change, the more they stay the same) in the midst of trying to come up with a good interim solution!
As the Nikon A was in the shops and the GR was not readily available your first comments would not have helped uncommitted buyers to decide to wait for the GR.
I don't believe I commented much on the "A", here at least, before the GR was released or at least announced. I may have said some positive things about it, but in anticipation of the GR, I was very positive on IT too...
Even the TAv issue was over-blown, it seemed that it was not just an issue it became the issue not to buy after the reds issue proved to be a red herring.
I didn't over blow it. I was one of several people who found it and couldn't solve it. But it was not a deal breaker for me. I still found TaV, whether on the Ricoh or the equivalent use of Manual mode on the Nikon, as the best option short of the one I eventually figured out to use on the Nikon. To this day, I absolutely prefer being able to use Av mode with a auto ISO that allows me to set an ISO ceiling and a minimum shutter speed. Ricoh and Nikon use exactly the same logic there - it's just that Ricoh limits their minimum shutter speed setting to 1/250. Fuji used to limit theirs to 1/125, which was completely useless, but they finally saw the light and now allow 1/500 in their newer bodies (and via firmware in some of their older bodies). I still hope and assume that Ricoh will raise that silly limit, maybe in the next version of the GR?
Many other well known Ricoh experts (I exclude myelf) did not get an early copy of the GR and you were fortunate to be able to score a "first looks" when prospective buyers were thirsting for news - that is a heavy responsibility fo someone with such an opportunity.
I didn't get an early copy of the GR. My loaner shipped the very day that pre-orders shipped to the first paying customers. I had it the same time as the earliest adopters, but not before. I did have some official information about it about two days before the official announcement - that was as far as my early access to anything went.
Of course the reds issue went away just as soon as Adobe caught up with a colour profille and Ricoh decided to price-ace the Nikon A - which duly happened.
The reds issue went away for me well before that - a few of us managed to find a way to install a beta version of the color profile before Adobe officially supported it. THAT was what the discussion was about and we got it done, with others helping much more with the technical end than I, but I did help push the issue forward until it was solved.
You picked the Nikon A for your own very valid reasons and seem to have gone on to try quite a few more brands since.
Nope, just a Sony RX1, which led me to full frame and then Nikon DSLRs. I'd already had quite a bit of experience with other brands, through the loaner program I was part of for more than a year, but really haven't tried much new since the GR, A, and RX1. I already had a LOT of experience with m43 and Fuji, but have since sold off all of that stuff. My gear now is limited to a Nikon DF, with mostly old manual focus lenses, the Coolpix A, and the little Canon G7X for the rare occasion I want a pocket sized zoom with me.
I also remember you seriously trashing the most excellent GRDIV simply because it replaced the quick method of altering snap focus distance with function button pairing which you did not pause long enough to understand and could have been set up to make the GRDIV into a street shooter's dream machine if you had bothered to read the manual.
Yes, I found two things to dislike about the GRDIV, but only relative to the GRDIII, which I had and loved. I thought the IV was better at ISO, but after some back to back testing, discovered they'd merely inflated the ISO numbering without changing anything functional about the sensor. Fuji does that also, and it ticks me off there too. The other thing was making changing snap focus distances much more difficult and adding that auto-snap feature which I thought (and think) was bunk. The later made it possible to use snap focus more like in previous models through a FW update, but I still didn't see any compelling reason to switch from the already excellent GRDIII. I never ever said anything negative about the GRDIV relative to any other brand, just to other Ricohs that I didn't think it improved on at all...
As Ricoh re-introduced the quick change snap shooting feature in the GR and dropped the rather nice function button pairing one might wonder if they were seriously listening to your observations - and when duly implemented to your wishes you chose not to buy a GR ....

Snap shooting and lack of the convenience to change distance seems to have been a big thing with you but you have gone off Ricoh and used a bunch of cameras that do not offer the snap shooting facility at all?
I liked snap focus and I like it still, but I don't like it exclusively. It's a really good way to skin the zone focus cat, but it's far from the only good way. I really like the tactile approach that both Olympus and Fuji have used with their "clutch focus ring" prime lenses, which I find just as quick and more enjoyable than snap focus, but obviously not any more effective to the task. I also love doing the same with my DSLR, which offers a manual focus over-ride of AF on many available lenses, which is the best approach I've found, albeit at the expense of a good deal of size and weight! I've found the Nikon A almost as quick to move between zone focus street shooting and AF shooting as snap focus. Not AS fast as the Ricoh, but fast enough that the difference wasn't an issue for me. Snap focus is a great feature and something I'd love to have on the Coolpix A, but it was not a big enough positive FOR ME to overcome the auto-ISO setup on the Nikon, which I'd never used UNTIL I shot with the Coolpix A.

I did not leave Ricoh for he Coolpix because of anything I perceived Ricoh had done WRONG with the GR. It was as good a camera in every possible way as my much beloved GRDIII and GXR-28 and obviously much better in some key ways. I thought it was a winner altogether and fully the equal of the Nikon except for one detail that mattered immensely to me, but obviously not to a lot of others. I chose the Nikon because of something they did extremely RIGHT, not because of anything Ricoh did wrong! It was something I wasn't even aware of until I tried (and spent a while getting to know) the Coolpix A, so I couldn't have anticipated it before I did that comparison.

For me, the way the Nikon allows me to setup the three key exposure variables (Aperture, ISO, and shutter speed) was a revelation that I came to during that month of shooting with both cameras. It still is, as I explained in some detail in my previous post. And enough camera makers now offer that functionality that I don't see any need to look at cameras without it going forward. I fully suspect it'll be nearly universal within a few years as other makers catch up...
So if I am wrong I am wrong and I apologise but it did seem to me that you went out of your way a bit to find fault with the GR and GRDIV and made some sport out of it from your acknowledged position as expert on cameras Ricoh. At least we cannot accuse you of being a Ricoh fan boy (grin).
I think the only sin I can reasonably be accused of was defending the Nikon against loud detractors in this forum, where such defense probably wasn't best placed. But I was still in the throes of the comparison and was still a Ricoh owner and user (I had the GXR-28 for quite a while after I eventually bought the Coolpix A), so I still hung out here quite a bit. I do not believe I ever trashed the GR in any way - I merely explained why I'd come to prefer the Nikon and why I considered them basically equivalent cameras with slightly different pros and cons that would appeal to different shooters differently. I still feel that way - I don't think the Nikon is a better camera. I do think it's an equally good camera with one key feature over the GR that matters a great deal TO ME...

No, I'm not a Ricoh fan boy, but I could have reasonably been accused of being one until that period in early 2013 when I shot with these two cameras. Even when I was not falling in love with the GRD IV, it was only because I didn't think it improved on the GRD III enough to justify an "upgrade". I had and loved the GRDIII and GXR and I'm sure I went overboard in my praise of both at times. I did jump off of Ricoh's ship a couple of years ago, though, and now you can probably reasonably call me a Nikon fan boy. I absolutely love their DSLR interface and sensors and lenses. And I like the Coolpix A as much as ever.

And I don't DISLIKE almost any cameras out there! I disliked the Olympus EPL1 a few years ago, but loved most of the other Olympus models. I dislike the Sony RX100 quite a bit but absolutely loved the RX1. I like Fuji bodies pretty well and absolutely love their prime lenses - I just came to like something else even more. These are good times for photographers and photo gear heads. There are very VERY few bad choices out there, or even less than excellent choices. I simply found something I liked better than what I had liked best at one time.

-Ray
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We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
 
Ray, if you are still following this thread and you have a minute, could you explain further how you are using the Nikon Auto-ISO with its Av mode? I'm curious how this differs from my Pentax's TAv mode ... and what advantages you are getting from your way of going at it.

Me? I'm hoping Ricoh can dust-seal that next GR... but am also looking for at the Coolpix A as small, pocketable, better low-light alternative to my RX100.
 
Fair enough, I accept our comments. I am glad that you can take me to task when I get it wrong and that I can apologise. I am also glad that I can air my opinions even when I am wrong as I did take it pretty hard that I could not get my hands on a GR until quite a long time after it was released in the USA whilst it was supposed to have a death wish colour balance problem that was verging in a model cancellation and recall status .... I personally thought "can't be ... surely not ....".

I can also take it that you are not in the current Ricoh camp then?

You are very eloquent Ray and many hang on your words and opinions, good or bad, and I think that what you say carries more weight than you allow yourself to understand. (I say that kindly).

I think it was at least two months before Ricoh got around to making the GR available in Australia and in the meantime it came across (to me at least) as a serious wave of negativity with Ray as the principal star (even if you were trying to solve the problem) as you were actually one of the few that had access to the camera which was in short supply for quite a while. In those early days such problem solving efforts are like gunshots when there are so few others with the camera in their hand to join in the fun.

I am not particularly sure that you fully understood the effect this was happening. Not yourself, but others, were questioning something seriously wrong with the camera sensor and it was being written off as dead in the water before it really hit the shops. And there was no one much else about with the GR camera in hand who could make any serious other comment in a practical way.

We can all name several other persons who are long term Ricoh experts who also were not given early access to the new camera - names like Gerd, Christian and Pavel spring to my mind. This was obviously Ricoh's mistake - it would have done them good to have sprinkled a few about to knowledgeable Ricoh people as well.

Two years down the track I think it is now generally admitted that the GR is brilliant well executed image making star of the niche universe that simply got off to some bad vibes.

I seriously think Ricoh was listening to your opinions, especially when we had the Ray amendment to the GR by retro-fitting the snap focus distance feature and abandoning the poorly understood, but very useful focus peaking feature. It is a pity that this wish coming true did not convince you to stay with the GR. After all you were the biggest booster of the wonderful snap focus at the time.

I still have my GRDIII and GRDIV and use both (preferring the GRDIV as the GRDIII is restricted mainly to my "portable photocopier" status) and can seriously claim that the GRDIV is a significantly better technical camera (for me at least).

As far as the Nikon A is concerned - I believe that it is a great camera, no problems there. It obviously was the camera for you as you have quite clearly and reasonably explained. It arrived to market earlier than the GR and Ricoh made sure that they price-pointed the A to death until it went into remainder price mode. Presumably Nikon has taken a bath on that model and Ricoh defended its patch. Maybe they are waiting to see if indeed there is a Nikon AII before they release and price a GRII. Poker hands? Maybe Nikon would like to wait until the GRII comes first this time?

But despite your very admitted fair and eloquent direct reviews it seems that you have not had proper long term association with Ricoh since your GRDIII and GXR A12 24mm module which now seem to be past history.

On the other hand, compared to Nikon, Panasonic seem to big and too diverse and seem to have been muscling out the Ricoh product niche cameras since the LX* versus the GX*00.

But that is another story and Harold will chide me if I mention details ... (grin)
 
Ray, if you are still following this thread and you have a minute, could you explain further how you are using the Nikon Auto-ISO with its Av mode? I'm curious how this differs from my Pentax's TAv mode ... and what advantages you are getting from your way of going at it.
Sure. With TaV mode (or any other name for setting aperture and shutter speed manually while letting ISO adjust automatically), you set two variables and let the third float. BUT, you still have to keep an eye on that third variable and adjust one of the other two when the third gets too close to the end of it's range. In TaV, you generally keep an eye on shutter speed and adjust it when ISO gets too high or low. This can be an issue when there's too MUCH light or too LITTLE light. It's really not much different than shooting in Aperture priority mode with manual ISO - there you have to keep an eye on the shutter speed and adjust the ISO when the shutter speed is getting too slow, or in the case of very bright light, faster than the camera's maximum. There's still a lot of monitoring and adjusting going on in bright or low light, and particularly as you move between changing light situations.

The way the Coolpix A works (as well as a few other cameras by Nikon and other manufacturers) is that you use Aperture Priority mode and auto-ISO. Within the auto-ISO menu, you can establish your base ISO, a maximum ISO, and a minimum shutter speed. You set the aperture manually and then the camera will stay at the lowest ISO it can while still maintaining the minimum shutter speed you've designated. If there's an abundance of light, the ISO will stay at it's base setting and shutter speed will automatically go as high as needed to maintain a proper exposure. In TaV mode, you'd have to keep an eye on the meter and raise the shutter speed manually in this situation.

As light decreases below where the camera can maintain both the minimum shutter speed and base ISO, it will automatically raise the ISO, but only as much as necessary to maintain your minimum shutter speed. It will continue like this until the camera hits the maximum ISO you've designated. Only if there's so little light that the camera can't maintain your minimum shutter speed at the maximum ISO you've designated will the camera then violate the minimum shutter speed and reduce the speed by exactly as much as needed to get a proper exposure. You don't have to do anything but recognize that in very low light, you may end up at a slower than optimal shutter speed and adapt your shooting to that situation.

This is the exact same sequence of adjustments I'd make if I was setting things manually or if I was using TaV, or Av with manual ISO. But I don't have to think about each incremental step - I only need to be aware of it at the extremes. As I move between light and shadows and even extreme shadows, all I need to do is work the exposure compensation control and the camera will handle the rest until it gets darker than my settings will support and then I have to check to see if the shutter speed is coming down below my minimum.

With I'm using the Coolpix A for street shooting, I set the camera for a maximum ISO of 6400 with a minimum shutter speed of 1/500. I'm often shooting moving subjects while I myself am moving. I find that I need to maintain a shutter speed of 1/500 whenever possible to get the highest percentage of shots not affected by either subject movement or camera shake (or a combination of the two). I shoot using zone focus (which is what Ricoh's "snap focus" is essentially a very convenient shortcut for), so I'm trying for a lot of depth of field, which requires a relatively small aperture - usually f7 or f8 when possible. When I'm out shooting on a bright day with deep shadows (a pretty common occurrence), the camera will automatically bump the shutter speed up well above 1/500 when bright conditions require it, and will crank the ISO up well above the camera's base ISO to maintain that 1/500 setting when I hit some fairly deep shadows. I don't have to think about that - I just have to read the light and adjust the exposure comp to bias the exposure when needed. With TaV mode, I'd frequently have to adjust the shutter speed either in very bright or very dark situations. If I'm staying in really consistent light, that's not usually much of a hassle, but I'm usually in changing light one way or another and the camera handles it on the Nikon, freeing me up to just try to nail the moment. Only when I move into really low light, by moving indoors or shooting at night, do I have to change this basic setting. Then I'll usually open up the aperture to f3.5 or even 2.8 and just stay aware that my "zone" of focus, my depth of field, is much narrower than when I'm shooting in good light. And I have to be aware that my shutter speed may also come down a bit as well, even with those brighter apertures. But I don't have to worry about setting that - just taking note of it and adapting to it.

The GR does have this same basic feature and uses this same type of logic - the only problem for me is that it doesn't let you set the minimum shutter speed any faster than 1/250. That's fast enough for a lot of people and it's fast enough for me for some types of shooting, but it's not fast enough for me when I'm shooting on the street. The Nikon goes up to 1/1000, faster than I'd need with for anything with a 28mm focal length, but there's no harm in offering it. On their DSLRs, they allow pretty much the full range of the camera's shutter speeds and they offer an auto setting for the minimum shutter speed to deal with zoom lenses - it adjusts the minimum based on the focal length. It uses the 1/focal length convention as a default and then you can bias it up or down by one or two full stops to account for shooting action at the fast end, or maybe to using a stabilized lens for a static subject at the slow end. Samsung uses pretty much the same system with it's APS mirrorless bodies. And Fuji has raised it's minimum shutter speed to 1/500, which is enough for me with most of their great wider prime lenses, but it's still a silly restraint given that they do have longer lenses that someone may try shooting action with and where 1/500 may still not be fast enough for those uses. Some other makers, like Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, and others, don't allow for ANY sort of shutter speed control in Av mode with auto-ISO, so Ricoh is ahead of many - they just don't take it as far as I need them to for how I shoot on the street.

With the Coolpix A, I have two custom settings applied to the two custom spots on the mode dial. One is for street shooting, as described above, with an aperture of f7.1, a max ISO of 6400, and a minimum shutter speed of 1/500. The other is for more general shooting where getting the shot isn't as difficult and where image quality is more important to me - for that I usually start with f4, a max ISO of 3200, and a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. So I end up with much lower ISO shots at much slower shutter speeds on that setting where getting the shot is much easier and so I put more emphasis on better IQ.

With TaV, as with Av and manual ISO, you're setting two variables and monitoring a third, but always have to be aware that you may need to change one of the two you're responsible for. With the Av and auto-ISO setup we're talking about, you're really only directly setting one variable, but you're essentially programming the camera to balance the other two variables in exactly the way you would if you were responsible for that second and/or third variable. It makes the shooting process far less labor intensive. It arguably doesn't matter that much for more static shooting when you can take your time and set everything up exactly as you want. But for fast moving situations where just getting the shot and nailing the moment is the hard part, having the camera handle these technical tasks is enormously helpful.
Me? I'm hoping Ricoh can dust-seal that next GR... but am also looking for at the Coolpix A as small, pocketable, better low-light alternative to my RX100.
Dust sealing would be nice on the next version of either of these cameras, if they can do it well with a retractable lens. And one of these days Ricoh will bump up the minimum shutter speed option so that you can set it to 1/500 or faster - maybe that'll be in the next version of the GR as well...

This is probably more than you asked for. I hope it's helpful in some small way...


-Ray
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We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
 
There have been many great helpful replies in this thread since I last checked it, and I'd like to collectively thank everyone for contributing. I've done more reading, and I've also looked at a lot of photos, which is how I usually get my "feel" for a product without being able to touch it (thankfully at least I got to touch a Coolpix A, briefly).

Here's something I'd love to read more about: your impressions of skin colors and general tonality of the GR images. Though hindered by the amount of unknown levels of post processing on the multitude of examples I've seen so far, I get the picture that GR does milder, cooler, more pink skin tones for Caucasian skin. I don't want to say it's like Samsung in that respect, but I greatly admired Samsung NX AWB color accuracy and skin tones when I had an NX and generally cooler tones. I think the colors I relate to the most are from Fuji samples I've seen to date, being a fan of more neutral cooler palettes in general, and I'm seeing cooler shades from GR and warmer shades from Nikon. I don't know how well that is carried on in default camera profiles in Lightroom when loading RAW. (for example, RAW from NX300 was very very similar in color rendition to out of camera JPEGs, whereas the default Adobe profile for E-M1 is quite different, and I have multiple tweaked color presets, including a chrome simulation now, as a result of looking for more realistic but lively results.) I'd probably be happiest with a compact cheaper version of x100t, which does not exist :)
 
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Really its too hard to pin down the answer without much in depth knowledge about how you usually shoot or what kind of photo style you do .. But since you are already on a serious M4/3 platform I would assume you have a healthy respect and demand decent quality capture form your cameras.

With that said I think the best way to see it is that there really is only marginal difference in absolute capturing capability and captured quality between the 2 but there ARE quite different way of operating, shooting , and photo result ( JPEG ) due to the nature that they come from 2 different Mfr who have very different view on how to do those JPEG and the camera. So I say the best bet is to look not just at the camera itself but options that need or could be employed, that include software , lens accessories, viewfinder accessories, and how they can be employed as a whole in the setup that you will carry around.

That aside, the other thing to consider is alternatives. If you are more open to various carry around ; then it might be wise to invest in time to look at something like the Sony RX-1000-III , the Panasonic GM-1 with the 15mm lens. Might be even the Nikon 1 or Samsung NX-500 ( can do 4K video at such low price entry )

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- Franka -
Good points Franka, I think that we all remember that Ming Thien gave a good comparative review of both cameras and then settled to personally buy a GR.

On the other hand Ray Sachs settled down and after a while produced a very good summary of the relative merits of both cameras and reasoning why he chose the Nikon A.

But I suggest that the OP is more attracted by price and with both cameras being pretty close in performance then the Nikon A must win.

But harder to evaluate is that the GR, like all Ricoh cameras is a device for the long haul. Long lasting and intuitive to use. Designed conservatively and not for fashion. The GR is currently a very capable camera and we know that even when the GRIII there will be many still using their current GR creating great images and it will neither be obsolete nor will it look obsolete.

The technically obsolete GXR remains a very viable camera and although I obtained a th A16 zoom module in a run-out special - I have used it recently and been quite amazed at its "look".



GXR A16 zoom jpg ex-camera
GXR A16 zoom jpg ex-camera

And not a hint of dust inside ;)



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Tom Caldwell
 
Fair enough, I accept our comments. I am glad that you can take me to task when I get it wrong and that I can apologise. I am also glad that I can air my opinions even when I am wrong as I did take it pretty hard that I could not get my hands on a GR until quite a long time after it was released in the USA whilst it was supposed to have a death wish colour balance problem that was verging in a model cancellation and recall status .... I personally thought "can't be ... surely not ....".
Not a problem Tom. We do seem to repeat this disagreement periodically. I'm not very active in this forum any more, but I'm interested in what Ricoh's doing, so I do lurk some, and was aware of this thread. I still wasn't planning to jump in until someone mentioned me and then you made some statements I took issue with.
I can also take it that you are not in the current Ricoh camp then?
I don't have any Ricoh gear at the moment. But I was selling Ricoh cameras in the mid 1980's when I worked in a camera shop and I still like their stuff, just not quite as much as Nikon's at the moment. But I'll never say never. I don't have any Fuji or Olympus or Sony gear right now either, but I've used a fair amount of each and I sort of keep an eye on what's happening with those makes also. So I do a fair amount of lurking around DPR...
You are very eloquent Ray and many hang on your words and opinions, good or bad, and I think that what you say carries more weight than you allow yourself to understand. (I say that kindly).

I think it was at least two months before Ricoh got around to making the GR available in Australia and in the meantime it came across (to me at least) as a serious wave of negativity with Ray as the principal star (even if you were trying to solve the problem) as you were actually one of the few that had access to the camera which was in short supply for quite a while. In those early days such problem solving efforts are like gunshots when there are so few others with the camera in their hand to join in the fun.
Well, there were plenty of others at least in the US who had access to it and we all saw the problem at about the same time and I think had it worked out within a matter of a week or so. And I really don't recall more than one or two people suggesting it was a flaw of the camera (I was not among them) and they were calmed down pretty quickly as we found a way to patch the beta color profile into the older versions of Lightroom. I seem to recall that it worked much more easily with Photoshop via ACR than it did in Lightroom where it was a righteous pain in the butt, but I don't recall the particulars.

I really don't think my words mean that much at all, but I hear what you're saying. I had the loaner arrangement I had because a guy who runs some other web-sites (non-DPR obviously) thought I wrote about this stuff well enough to cut me in on his commercial loaner deal. I wrote my impressions, it drove some small amount of traffic to his sites, and the vendor advertised there, so it worked for all. I was never in any way told WHAT to say - negative reviews were never discouraged. I guess they figured it was just one more small voice that drove up interest. I stopped doing that after a bit more than a year though because I got sick of always shooting with new stuff that I had to get to know - I just wanted to use the gear I knew I liked and get on with photography - I actually got sick of all of the gear...
I am not particularly sure that you fully understood the effect this was happening. Not yourself, but others, were questioning something seriously wrong with the camera sensor and it was being written off as dead in the water before it really hit the shops. And there was no one much else about with the GR camera in hand who could make any serious other comment in a practical way.
Well, if that was happening as you say Tom, it was obviously a very very temporary effect because Ricoh obviously sold plenty of GRs once it was on the street everywhere. If the early concerns hurt them, it didn't hurt them much!
We can all name several other persons who are long term Ricoh experts who also were not given early access to the new camera - names like Gerd, Christian and Pavel spring to my mind. This was obviously Ricoh's mistake - it would have done them good to have sprinkled a few about to knowledgeable Ricoh people as well.

Two years down the track I think it is now generally admitted that the GR is brilliant well executed image making star of the niche universe that simply got off to some bad vibes.
That's pretty much par for the course though isn't it. I can't think of very many cameras that don't get a wave of nasty user comments early on. I remember a whole series of "fiascos" with the Olympus OMD-EM5 when it came out in 2012, but it obviously went on to be a ground-breaking camera and they sold a zillion of them. Same with the Fuji X-100 when it came out - it DID have some real issues and people were not shy about pointing them out, but that line is on it's third generation and has obviously done very very well. So, sure, I'm sure there were some negative comments that scared some folks about the GR, but I honestly don't feel it was beyond the norm...
I seriously think Ricoh was listening to your opinions, especially when we had the Ray amendment to the GR by retro-fitting the snap focus distance feature and abandoning the poorly understood, but very useful focus peaking feature. It is a pity that this wish coming true did not convince you to stay with the GR. After all you were the biggest booster of the wonderful snap focus at the time.
I don't think that for a minute Tom. I'd heard about that snap focus business from a number of people before I ever tried the camera and I tried it despite that, partially to see if the high ISO improvements were as good as some thought. I figured if they were I'd find a work around for the snap focus distance thing. Well, the ISO performance was about the same as the GRDIII so I never needed to find that work-around. But they wouldn't have changed that in firmware and then dumped auto-snap in the GR based on what I'd said unless a LOT of other people were saying the same thing. I've never had any communication directly with Ricoh and I know a couple of people who have. So unless they're reading DPR some of the websites I frequent, and even if they are, I'm just one of many voices on these things.
I still have my GRDIII and GRDIV and use both (preferring the GRDIV as the GRDIII is restricted mainly to my "portable photocopier" status) and can seriously claim that the GRDIV is a significantly better technical camera (for me at least).
Understood. But not for me for how I used them.
As far as the Nikon A is concerned - I believe that it is a great camera, no problems there. It obviously was the camera for you as you have quite clearly and reasonably explained. It arrived to market earlier than the GR and Ricoh made sure that they price-pointed the A to death until it went into remainder price mode. Presumably Nikon has taken a bath on that model and Ricoh defended its patch. Maybe they are waiting to see if indeed there is a Nikon AII before they release and price a GRII. Poker hands? Maybe Nikon would like to wait until the GRII comes first this time?
Who knows - time will tell. I'm not sweating it either way.
But despite your very admitted fair and eloquent direct reviews it seems that you have not had proper long term association with Ricoh since your GRDIII and GXR A12 24mm module which now seem to be past history.
28mm. I know the guy who bought it from me and he's still enjoying it. But, yeah, for me it's history.
On the other hand, compared to Nikon, Panasonic seem to big and too diverse and seem to have been muscling out the Ricoh product niche cameras since the LX* versus the GX*00.

But that is another story and Harold will chide me if I mention details ... (grin)
I hear you. I was actually really REALLY looking forward to the LX100 (which I figured would be the LX8 with a 1" sensor) because I really dug the LX5 and LX7. But despite the bigger sensor and great lens, Panasonic regressed on some details that mattered to me with the LX100 (as I felt Ricoh had with the GRD IV), Canon unexpectedly provided a few of them in the G7X, and I ended up with that Canon despite it being the FARTHEST thing from my radar when I was thinking about the latest generation of zoom compacts. Good Lord, Panasonic didn't even keep a manual focus distance scale in the LX100 - how's a self respecting street shooter supposed to zone focus with THAT. I found the earlier LX models almost as useful as the GRD series for street shooting and obviously preferable when I wanted a zoom, but the LX100 just went and ticked me off with that omission. Not to mention about the WORST auto-ISO setup of anyone, but that part isn't new.

You see Tom, I have my loyalties based on past performance, but as soon as somebody else does something I need better than who I'd been using (or if there's a regression), I'm not sentimental about switching!

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/
 
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There have been many great helpful replies in this thread since I last checked it, and I'd like to collectively thank everyone for contributing. I've done more reading, and I've also looked at a lot of photos, which is how I usually get my "feel" for a product without being able to touch it (thankfully at least I got to touch a Coolpix A, briefly).

Here's something I'd love to read more about: your impressions of skin colors and general tonality of the GR images. Though hindered by the amount of unknown levels of post processing on the multitude of examples I've seen so far, I get the picture that GR does milder, cooler, more pink skin tones for Caucasian skin. I don't want to say it's like Samsung in that respect, but I greatly admired Samsung NX AWB color accuracy and skin tones when I had an NX and generally cooler tones. I think the colors I relate to the most are from Fuji samples I've seen to date, being a fan of more neutral cooler palettes in general, and I'm seeing cooler shades from GR and warmer shades from Nikon. I don't know how well that is carried on in default camera profiles in Lightroom when loading RAW. (for example, RAW from NX300 was very very similar in color rendition to out of camera JPEGs, whereas the default Adobe profile for E-M1 is quite different, and I have multiple tweaked color presets, including a chrome simulation now, as a result of looking for more realistic but lively results.) I'd probably be happiest with a compact cheaper version of x100t, which does not exist :)
Please don't worry about Ray Sach and myself we both like a robust debate and we are really good friends and we don't call each other names. Ray prefers the Nikon A and his reasoning is good, I have the humps because he was one of the first in the world to get his hands on a loaner GR and pointed out some "problems" that were obviously there but in airing them and in looking for a solution he had all the would be GR buyers in a tither when it was impossible to buy a GR and try for themself. That said, my apologies, move on ...

Ricoh is known for its accurate somewhat restrained colour balance whilst Nikon and particularly Olympus can have more saturated colours. What is preferable is personal choice. The common advice to Ricoh owners who want more bounce in their images is to suggest they switch to "vivid" colour balance. I use my GR more as a documentation camera these days and as a result I cannot easily find some sample images to show. I did find some but I was using B&W as I quite like how Ricoh cameras handle these.



32b3cc2542534b1c9218973bcff2bfdd.jpg

An unaltered jpg of no particular merit straight from the camera - unfortunately this was from a GXR with mount module and not a GR but I doubt if the "Ricoh" AWB would differ in look much from camera to camera.

Others may be able to offer better samples. I tend to use ex-camera-jpg images unless I am setting out to make something very special.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
Fair enough, I accept our comments. I am glad that you can take me to task when I get it wrong and that I can apologise. I am also glad that I can air my opinions even when I am wrong as I did take it pretty hard that I could not get my hands on a GR until quite a long time after it was released in the USA whilst it was supposed to have a death wish colour balance problem that was verging in a model cancellation and recall status .... I personally thought "can't be ... surely not ....".
Not a problem Tom. We do seem to repeat this disagreement periodically. I'm not very active in this forum any more, but I'm interested in what Ricoh's doing, so I do lurk some, and was aware of this thread. I still wasn't planning to jump in until someone mentioned me and then you made some statements I took issue with.
Maybe you will get me sorted out eventually .... ;)
I can also take it that you are not in the current Ricoh camp then?
I don't have any Ricoh gear at the moment. But I was selling Ricoh cameras in the mid 1980's when I worked in a camera shop and I still like their stuff, just not quite as much as Nikon's at the moment. But I'll never say never. I don't have any Fuji or Olympus or Sony gear right now either, but I've used a fair amount of each and I sort of keep an eye on what's happening with those makes also. So I do a fair amount of lurking around DPR...
Yes and I will admit to have quite an interest in M4/3 at the moment in particular the GM1 and the GX7. I have likened the GM1 to a prototype for the GXRII or a GR with a lens mount which in effect gives it access to some really great lenses such as 12/2, 15/1.7, 25/1.4 Summilux, 42.5/1.2 Nocticron, 75/1.8, 35-100/2.8 OIS (shades of the Canon 70-200?) Of course you have to multiply the focal length by two as M4/3 people like correct focal lengths not FF equivalences ;) We will also have to keep this little exchange quiet from Harold as he frequently chides me for mentioning the GM1 in "every post" (grin) Consider some of the wailing that has gone on on this forum for multiple GR lensed bodies quite forgetting that this was what the GXR was all about (and failed to attract sufficient attention).
You are very eloquent Ray and many hang on your words and opinions, good or bad, and I think that what you say carries more weight than you allow yourself to understand. (I say that kindly).

I think it was at least two months before Ricoh got around to making the GR available in Australia and in the meantime it came across (to me at least) as a serious wave of negativity with Ray as the principal star (even if you were trying to solve the problem) as you were actually one of the few that had access to the camera which was in short supply for quite a while. In those early days such problem solving efforts are like gunshots when there are so few others with the camera in their hand to join in the fun.
Well, there were plenty of others at least in the US who had access to it and we all saw the problem at about the same time and I think had it worked out within a matter of a week or so. And I really don't recall more than one or two people suggesting it was a flaw of the camera (I was not among them)
Agreed
and they were calmed down pretty quickly as we found a way to patch the beta color profile into the older versions of Lightroom. I seem to recall that it worked much more easily with Photoshop via ACR than it did in Lightroom where it was a righteous pain in the butt, but I don't recall the particulars.
Yes but the news was a bit of a bombshell for others around the world seriously still waiting for the GR to become available - hence my beef. The disaster merchants were on full megaphone from where I was sitting. Much as the no doubt happening sensor dust presently gets more air time than it deserves on a slow forum.
I really don't think my words mean that much at all, but I hear what you're saying. I had the loaner arrangement I had because a guy who runs some other web-sites (non-DPR obviously) thought I wrote about this stuff well enough to cut me in on his commercial loaner deal. I wrote my impressions, it drove some small amount of traffic to his sites, and the vendor advertised there, so it worked for all. I was never in any way told WHAT to say
I don't doubt that.
- negative reviews were never discouraged. I guess they figured it was just one more small voice that drove up interest. I stopped doing that after a bit more than a year though because I got sick of always shooting with new stuff that I had to get to know - I just wanted to use the gear I knew I liked and get on with photography - I actually got sick of all of the gear...
I don't get any loaners but I can appreciate being sick of all that gear ... ;)
I am not particularly sure that you fully understood the effect this was happening. Not yourself, but others, were questioning something seriously wrong with the camera sensor and it was being written off as dead in the water before it really hit the shops. And there was no one much else about with the GR camera in hand who could make any serious other comment in a practical way.
Well, if that was happening as you say Tom, it was obviously a very very temporary effect because Ricoh obviously sold plenty of GRs once it was on the street everywhere. If the early concerns hurt them, it didn't hurt them much!
I think they just priced it right and went for the Nikon A jugular. It was the last of their original cameras on the market and in no way were they going to vacate their perch/niche. I have no doubt that the Nikon A is quite as good as you say but the GR was not as bad as it first appeared to be. And me sweating to get my hands on one ....
We can all name several other persons who are long term Ricoh experts who also were not given early access to the new camera - names like Gerd, Christian and Pavel spring to my mind. This was obviously Ricoh's mistake - it would have done them good to have sprinkled a few about to knowledgeable Ricoh people as well.

Two years down the track I think it is now generally admitted that the GR is brilliant well executed image making star of the niche universe that simply got off to some bad vibes.
That's pretty much par for the course though isn't it. I can't think of very many cameras that don't get a wave of nasty user comments early on. I remember a whole series of "fiascos" with the Olympus OMD-EM5 when it came out in 2012, but it obviously went on to be a ground-breaking camera and they sold a zillion of them. Same with the Fuji X-100 when it came out - it DID have some real issues and people were not shy about pointing them out, but that line is on it's third generation and has obviously done very very well. So, sure, I'm sure there were some negative comments that scared some folks about the GR, but I honestly don't feel it was beyond the norm...
I think the real problem was Ricoh's they released in the USA well before they had distribution to the rest of the world. This meant that good vibes were good and bad vibes hit the ratchet pretty hard.
I seriously think Ricoh was listening to your opinions, especially when we had the Ray amendment to the GR by retro-fitting the snap focus distance feature and abandoning the poorly understood, but very useful focus peaking feature. It is a pity that this wish coming true did not convince you to stay with the GR. After all you were the biggest booster of the wonderful snap focus at the time.
I don't think that for a minute Tom. I'd heard about that snap focus business from a number of people before I ever tried the camera and I tried it despite that, partially to see if the high ISO improvements were as good as some thought. I figured if they were I'd find a work around for the snap focus distance thing. Well, the ISO performance was about the same as the GRDIII so I never needed to find that work-around. But they wouldn't have changed that in firmware and then dumped auto-snap in the GR based on what I'd said unless a LOT of other people were saying the same thing. I've never had any communication directly with Ricoh and I know a couple of people who have. So unless they're reading DPR some of the websites I frequent, and even if they are, I'm just one of many voices on these things.
You might not realise your influence. (grin) On the GRDIV you can set four pairs of functions. So if you were into street shooting you could assign your best SS functions to Fn1 and Fn2 - one of these could be the snap distance change. Click twirl up/down and you are there. Doing something else? Then up arrow spin dial and a named list of preset function sets appears for you to quickly select from. Quick efficient and clever. The ability to access up to eight functions over two function keys (duplications allowed). Ricoh of course in their usual style sent the cameras out with none set up .... Didn't make it to the GR.
I still have my GRDIII and GRDIV and use both (preferring the GRDIV as the GRDIII is restricted mainly to my "portable photocopier" status) and can seriously claim that the GRDIV is a significantly better technical camera (for me at least).
Understood. But not for me for how I used them.
I have so many cameras ... sob ... my fault ... ;)
As far as the Nikon A is concerned - I believe that it is a great camera, no problems there. It obviously was the camera for you as you have quite clearly and reasonably explained. It arrived to market earlier than the GR and Ricoh made sure that they price-pointed the A to death until it went into remainder price mode. Presumably Nikon has taken a bath on that model and Ricoh defended its patch. Maybe they are waiting to see if indeed there is a Nikon AII before they release and price a GRII. Poker hands? Maybe Nikon would like to wait until the GRII comes first this time?
Who knows - time will tell. I'm not sweating it either way.
Me neither, surprises are best.
But despite your very admitted fair and eloquent direct reviews it seems that you have not had proper long term association with Ricoh since your GRDIII and GXR A12 24mm module which now seem to be past history.
28mm. I know the guy who bought it from me and he's still enjoying it. But, yeah, for me it's history.
Sorry I get mixed up - in the runout I loaded up with new GXR gear. I have not yet had my 28mm module out for a trot yet. At least I have it for a better day.
On the other hand, compared to Nikon, Panasonic seem to big and too diverse and seem to have been muscling out the Ricoh product niche cameras since the LX* versus the GX*00.

But that is another story and Harold will chide me if I mention details ... (grin)
I hear you. I was actually really REALLY looking forward to the LX100 (which I figured would be the LX8 with a 1" sensor) because I really dug the LX5 and LX7. But despite the bigger sensor and great lens, Panasonic regressed on some details that mattered to me with the LX100 (as I felt Ricoh had with the GRD IV), Canon unexpectedly provided a few of them in the G7X, and I ended up with that Canon despite it being the FARTHEST thing from my radar when I was thinking about the latest generation of zoom compacts. Good Lord, Panasonic didn't even keep a manual focus distance scale in the LX100 - how's a self respecting street shooter supposed to zone focus with THAT. I found the earlier LX models almost as useful as the GRD series for street shooting and obviously preferable when I wanted a zoom, but the LX100 just went and ticked me off with that omission. Not to mention about the WORST auto-ISO setup of anyone, but that part isn't new.
Psst, is Harold looking ... the GM1 actually carries the 42.5 f1.2 OIS Nocticron very well despite it being a large lens. Also there is a 35-100 f2.8 OIS zoom ... and if you need an evf on a thing almost as compact there is the GM5 - welcome to "design your own camera" poison ...
You see Tom, I have my loyalties based on past performance, but as soon as somebody else does something I need better than who I'd been using (or if there's a regression), I'm not sentimental about switching!
Me too the fixed focal length GRD/GR series is great but certainly if you need greater variety it quickly gets a bit harder.
-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/
Yes I missed a great one this morning - three exquisite bright red plumage King Parrots in a tree just outside our window - a bad angle through glass and they are very shy and as soon as I opened a door .... all the camera's fault ... ;)
 
GM1/GM5 are pretty cool--they are originally what I wanted to get as a carry-around little camera, to always have with me. Especially since I'm already in the m43 world, so I could trade lenses between two bodies as needed. But I've tried GM1 and GM5 in a local camera store, and both were a bit awkwardly small for me. I don't actually have big hands at all, but they felt to me like I'd need to be very careful taking the camera out to avoid accidentally dropping it. The 12-32mm lens with its stiff locking and unlocking mechanism is even more noticeably stiff on such tiny bodies (I used to have one for my E-M1 and wasn't a fan then). I had a plan of getting a Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 or 14mm f/2.5 and keeping that permanently on a GM5.

Anyway, since I was at that store trying out those cameras, I noticed they had an LX100 as well, so I had a look and liked it a lot. It was still small enough to go into my small shoulder bag, but so much grippier and with a nice viewfinder. That's when I also saw and remembered about Nikon Coolpix A. I thought okay, the tiny viewfinder on GM5 was going to be near useless for me (I've tried it out), so either it's LX100 for me or maybe a large sensor high IQ compact like Ricoh GR and Coolpix A. That's how I came about to creating this thread. :) I'm still very happy with my E-M1, but it's undeniably nice to have a high IQ small/light camera at my side all the time.

I've looked extensively on Camerasize.com, and even Olympus Pens and small E-M10 are not as pocketable due to the extra width of protruding lenses. LX100 is still a [now weak] contender, but seeing as it's 2x the price of Coolpix A and definitely thicker with its lens, the choice became more clear. I actually wish there were an LX100a or some such that had a small retractable fixed bright lens but still with that EVF.
 
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... I have no doubt that the Nikon A is quite as good as you say ...
Ok, that's reasonable. You also wrote in this thread :
As far as the Nikon A is concerned - I believe that it is a great camera, no problems there...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55906158

and in another reply
The Nikon A is a fine camera by all accounts ...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55902706

.

So what are we to make of this?
I would not have a Nikon A myself even if they were being given away and I just had to buy the batteries.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55906208

.

Did someone else have access to your computer and DPR login? Or are you in dress rehearsal for "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", while trying to get into character?

If I gave you an EN-EL20 battery, would you still reject a free Nikon A?

You could sell the darn thing and make enough money to keep yourself topped off with burgers and brew for weeks, or at least until you got sick of them and wished that you had kept the "A". :)
 
I have difficulty in understanding the necessity of camera users of a certain brand:

-to unite, stay strong and resist,

-be defensive or paranoid about negative comments,

-to assume that someone's reservations of a camera undermine a giant corporation's future,

-to rely on idiotic conspiracy theories when they feel like they are not understood: for a while, we heard tons of "dpreview is against Ricoh" nonsense. Luckily that ended with their equally nonsensical "gold medal", or whatever they award at the end of their reviews.

anyhow.

I have found that, usually Ricoh, as a company, is very understanding of the problems with their cameras and they do acknowledge and address their camera's faults without much hassle...more so than some of the diehard fanboys who are blinded by love.

next step? To call ex-Ricoh users traitors?

I found Ricoh late in my photo journey and like it a lot. It served me very well. I have learned to deal with its shortcomings and enjoy their strengths and I believe that, I would remain with Ricoh until I find something that serves me better.

I like cameras, but photography is my hobby, not the cameras. If I happen to leave Ricoh behind (which I doubt) I won't feel sorry for "betraying" them, and no one should. brand loyalty is not my sacred mission. Take it easy and relax. When someone complains about dust, colors, focal length, quirkiness in UI, please don't feel like they are insulting your dear mother...
 
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What you will find is that the GR at rest is physically smaller than even a GM1 with any lens short of the body cap version mounted. Technically the GR is slightly larger but as it folds "flat" and the GM1 has both protruding lens and any lens that is mounted - the GR wins the portable size stakes comfortably.

I have never seen a Nikon A and so cannot comment but it must be of very similar size to the GR. You must know that the GR has a very high quality wide prime lens and it is not stabilised.

Olympus owners tend to get a bit ga-ga over IBIS (which is excellent) but it is not the end of the world as we know it to manage without. Wide lenses do not need stabilisation systems as much.

In the relative stakes of "popular cameras" <- through to -> "serious photographer cameras" the GR is well to the right and the LX100 much more left leaning - this is no comment on the quality of imaging but the GR is certainly pitched at interesting the more serious involved user.
 
... I have no doubt that the Nikon A is quite as good as you say ...
Ok, that's reasonable. You also wrote in this thread :
As far as the Nikon A is concerned - I believe that it is a great camera, no problems there...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55906158

and in another reply
The Nikon A is a fine camera by all accounts ...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55902706

.

So what are we to make of this?
I would not have a Nikon A myself even if they were being given away and I just had to buy the batteries.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55906208

.
I believe that it is a fine camera - great. But I have absolutely no interest in owning one. Much the same as saying the latest wonder Leica is a fine camera but I also have no interest in owing one - I thought that this was quite simple. There are some cameras that interest me and some cameras that do not interest me and this is no firm condemnation that the ones that don't interest me are not capable cameras.

There are in fact a huge number of very capable cameras that I have no interest in being given.
Did someone else have access to your computer and DPR login? Or are you in dress rehearsal for "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", while trying to get into character?

If I gave you an EN-EL20 battery, would you still reject a free Nikon A?
Yep. I already have more cameras than I should if I were completely sane and obtaining one that I have no real interest in owning might get me finally certified .... ;)
You could sell the darn thing and make enough money to keep yourself topped off with burgers and brew for weeks, or at least until you got sick of them and wished that you had kept the "A". :)
They seem to be selling for $300 brand new in a box - that makes them a fine camera for the price. Buy a few and keep them for spares? I did buy a Ricoh R4 as a spare for when my original died but the durn thing still works so I gave the new body away and even included a battery.

Heck I hardly use my GR enough and I already own it ....
 
I have difficulty in understanding the necessity of camera users of a certain brand:

-to unite, stay strong and resist,

-be defensive or paranoid about negative comments,

-to assume that someone's reservations of a camera undermine a giant corporation's future,

-to rely on idiotic conspiracy theories when they feel like they are not understood: for a while, we heard tons of "dpreview is against Ricoh" nonsense. Luckily that ended with their equally nonsensical "gold medal", or whatever they award at the end of their reviews.

anyhow.

I have found that, usually Ricoh, as a company, is very understanding of the problems with their cameras and they do acknowledge and address their camera's faults without much hassle...more so than some of the diehard fanboys who are blinded by love.

next step? To call ex-Ricoh users traitors?

I found Ricoh late in my photo journey and like it a lot. It served me very well. I have learned to deal with its shortcomings and enjoy their strengths and I believe that, I would remain with Ricoh until I find something that serves me better.

I like cameras, but photography is my hobby, not the cameras. If I happen to leave Ricoh behind (which I doubt) I won't feel sorry for "betraying" them, and no one should. brand loyalty is not my sacred mission. Take it easy and relax. When someone complains about dust, colors, focal length, quirkiness in UI, please don't feel like they are insulting your dear mother...
Hurrump?

I am off with the micro 4/3 fairies in the original meaning of the saying. I come back and talk Ricoh because I like the cameras as well. I don't feel a traitor but I feel that I can come back and discuss things with old friends. Even if Harold reminds me not to talk about that certain Panasonic camera yet again ...

If I talk about dust issues being over-blown I don't mean that this is a minor problem but on busier forums there are other things to moan about and new gear issued regularly to celebrate about and therefore we don't get prospective new Ricoh users starting threads every month or two as they have read so many posts about the near death experiences of GR users with dusty sensors.

Then off it goes again with another round ...

I have made a pledge to myself never to comment on a new thread: "I would buy a Ricoh but I am scared spitless about their dust on sensor problem" again.

Certainly Ricoh are great company and interested in their customers. They are also well known for occasionally tossing a free useful firmware upgrade bone for our pleasure to pick over.

On the other hand old Panasonic is not so accommodating it seems that only downright firmware glitches are fixed. When the almost identical GM5 was released there were a few interesting firmware upgrades that might sit well on the GM1. Ricoh would have almost certainly have released a similar package for the older camera model as an upgrade in this situation. Panasonic - no such thing - just silence.

And Ray and I speak our minds and then have a virtual beer afterwards. I think we could be good mates if we lived a bit closer. ;)
 
... I have no doubt that the Nikon A is quite as good as you say ...
Ok, that's reasonable. You also wrote in this thread :
As far as the Nikon A is concerned - I believe that it is a great camera, no problems there...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55906158

and in another reply
The Nikon A is a fine camera by all accounts ...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55902706

.

So what are we to make of this?
I would not have a Nikon A myself even if they were being given away and I just had to buy the batteries.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55906208

.
I believe that it is a fine camera - great. But I have absolutely no interest in owning one. Much the same as saying the latest wonder Leica is a fine camera but I also have no interest in owing one - I thought that this was quite simple. There are some cameras that interest me and some cameras that do not interest me and this is no firm condemnation that the ones that don't interest me are not capable cameras.
I've generally felt the same about Leicas, but the latest rumor is for a full frame Leica fixed lens with a 28mm f1.7 lens in a body about the size of the RX1... I will never pay the rumored $4500 price for one, but on the off-chance that someone would like to offer me one for free, I would gladly and gratefully accept!!!

And, Tom, should someone send you one and you continue not to be interested, please let me know and I'll take it off your hands... I'd even pay shipping from down under...


-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
 
I believe that it is a fine camera - great. But I have absolutely no interest in owning one. Much the same as saying the latest wonder Leica is a fine camera but I also have no interest in owing one - I thought that this was quite simple. There are some cameras that interest me and some cameras that do not interest me and this is no firm condemnation that the ones that don't interest me are not capable cameras.
I do find the Leica RF cameras interesting, and that's completely irrespective of the daft snob-factor. I would like one. Same sense in its singularity of purpose that the Ricoh has. Maybe would change the way I took photographs - which could be interesting in itself. The only thing that impediments interest in the Leica is the price.

S
 
Harold66 wrote: Well it depends on who it is, I guess. For me, considering the current technology , I have ZERO interest in a manual focus only camera ( Leica or otherwise)

and do get me started on 3;2 ratio only cameras ;)

Harold
My first cameras were all manual focus - SLRs and a 645. It's a feature you want or don't want. The process of using a manual focus RF is part of the appeal to me and I'm quite used to it. My first AF was the GR1s. The manual focus effects your approach and effects the results. Hard to justify and explain but given the limitations of using a prime lens on a GR/GRD, for example, a MF camera should be considered another possibility that can benefit a photographer's shooting style.

The great thing about a Leica would be mechanical focus. Another world compared to the optional focus-by-wire on most cameras.

3:2 - again a film user's tradition. Maybe I just think in 3:2.

But I understand your preference for 4:3. Also a TV ratio.
 
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