First outing with D7100+18-140, very disappointing results

Riki

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Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
 
Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
Well, at first I thought it was wide open, because of the abberations on the lamp. The exif says F6,3. I assume it is front-focused.

Where did you focus and how?

And, before the anti-AF-fine-tune vultures show up, have you checked and tuned AF fine tune on that lens?

Also, have you tried back-button focus?

With a back button focus, tripod (not really necessary but really really handy) and live-view manual focus you can very easily determine the AF-fine tune value and set the lens/body combo to a better shape. And in field, too. No test shots of test charts necessary.
 
Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
Well, at first I thought it was wide open, because of the abberations on the lamp. The exif says F6,3. I assume it is front-focused.

Where did you focus and how?

And, before the anti-AF-fine-tune vultures show up, have you checked and tuned AF fine tune on that lens?

Also, have you tried back-button focus?

With a back button focus, tripod (not really necessary but really really handy) and live-view manual focus you can very easily determine the AF-fine tune value and set the lens/body combo to a better shape. And in field, too. No test shots of test charts necessary.
If you look closely there is not a single spot in the entire frame which is sharp. Shutter is set to release on "Focus". Nobody could have missed such a large target. No, I havent done any AF fine tune etc. never needed to do so.
 
Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
Well, at first I thought it was wide open, because of the abberations on the lamp. The exif says F6,3. I assume it is front-focused.

Where did you focus and how?
Shutter button half pressed
And, before the anti-AF-fine-tune vultures show up, have you checked and tuned AF fine tune on that lens?
No, Sir
Also, have you tried back-button focus?
No, Sir
With a back button focus, tripod (not really necessary but really really handy) and live-view manual focus you can very easily determine the AF-fine tune value and set the lens/body combo to a better shape. And in field, too. No test shots of test charts necessary.
Will do so if necessary, thanks for your reply
 
Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
Well, at first I thought it was wide open, because of the abberations on the lamp. The exif says F6,3. I assume it is front-focused.

Where did you focus and how?
Shutter button half pressed
And, before the anti-AF-fine-tune vultures show up, have you checked and tuned AF fine tune on that lens?
No, Sir
Also, have you tried back-button focus?
No, Sir
With a back button focus, tripod (not really necessary but really really handy) and live-view manual focus you can very easily determine the AF-fine tune value and set the lens/body combo to a better shape. And in field, too. No test shots of test charts necessary.
Will do so if necessary, thanks for your reply
Try this and see yourself. If you are unhappy with the results, you can always revert them.

First, you need to set the AE-L button to Focus, so that the shutter button is independent of focusing. In the camera menu, Red Pen, F4, Assign AE-L, Press - set mode to AF-ON.

Now the camera shutter button only shoots and the AE-L works as focus button.

The, get the camera on a tripod, set it to M or A and wide open (ie. F3,5).

Find a suitable scene where you can easily determine focus. Good old brick wall would do, like would anything else that is not likely to confuse AF.

Set camera to Live View and zoom the view on the display (+ - buttons) so that you can see fine details on the test surface.

Turn the focus ring on your lens to achieve the best possible focus. Leave Live-view and do not touch neither the focus ring nor the AE-L "focus" button.

Half press the shutter button and check the two triangles and a dot in the bottom left corner of the viewfinder. If the dot appears, the focus achieved by your manual focus in Live view and what the AF module of the camera thinks are the same. This is supposed to be unlikely according to the photo shown.

If the triangle is like this < it means that you need to set the AF Fine tune values to positive number.

Go to menu, Orange Wrench, AF fine tune, ON, and set some value, say 10.

If it is still <, set more.

If it is >, set less.

Fiddle with the number until you see a dot when you half press the shutter button. This means that the AF module is tuned.

You can do a simple test. Take a photo with manually focused lens. Then turn the focus ring (de-focus the lens) and have the camera auto focus by pressing the AE-L button. Compare the shots. They should be more or less the same focus. For this the AF-S mode with beep confirmation is quite handy ;-)

Do this for a set of focal lengths, say 18, 35, 50, 70, 140 mm and average the results. Unfortunately there is only one AF fine tune value for the whole lens, but something is better than nothing.

Good luck.
 
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Some copies of the 18-140mm lens have been reported as requiring AF-FT. Mine needed +8 and proved to be a fine lens after this simple fix.

Don't get tricked into lengthy and hocus-pocus methods for AF-FT. Shoot a reliable target at 18mm f/5.6 while you vary the FT from +15 to -15 in 5 unit steps and pick the best result. Compare with Live View image.
 
Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
Well, at first I thought it was wide open, because of the abberations on the lamp. The exif says F6,3. I assume it is front-focused.

Where did you focus and how?
Shutter button half pressed
And, before the anti-AF-fine-tune vultures show up, have you checked and tuned AF fine tune on that lens?
No, Sir
Also, have you tried back-button focus?
No, Sir
With a back button focus, tripod (not really necessary but really really handy) and live-view manual focus you can very easily determine the AF-fine tune value and set the lens/body combo to a better shape. And in field, too. No test shots of test charts necessary.
Will do so if necessary, thanks for your reply
Try this and see yourself. If you are unhappy with the results, you can always revert them.

First, you need to set the AE-L button to Focus, so that the shutter button is independent of focusing. In the camera menu, Red Pen, F4, Assign AE-L, Press - set mode to AF-ON.

Now the camera shutter button only shoots and the AE-L works as focus button.

The, get the camera on a tripod, set it to M or A and wide open (ie. F3,5).

Find a suitable scene where you can easily determine focus. Good old brick wall would do, like would anything else that is not likely to confuse AF.

Set camera to Live View and zoom the view on the display (+ - buttons) so that you can see fine details on the test surface.

Turn the focus ring on your lens to achieve the best possible focus. Leave Live-view and do not touch neither the focus ring nor the AE-L "focus" button.

Half press the shutter button and check the two triangles and a dot in the bottom left corner of the viewfinder. If the dot appears, the focus achieved by your manual focus in Live view and what the AF module of the camera thinks are the same. This is supposed to be unlikely according to the photo shown.

If the triangle is like this < it means that you need to set the AF Fine tune values to positive number.

Go to menu, Orange Wrench, AF fine tune, ON, and set some value, say 10.

If it is still <, set more.

If it is >, set less.

Fiddle with the number until you see a dot when you half press the shutter button. This means that the AF module is tuned.

You can do a simple test. Take a photo with manually focused lens. Then turn the focus ring (de-focus the lens) and have the camera auto focus by pressing the AE-L button. Compare the shots. They should be more or less the same focus. For this the AF-S mode with beep confirmation is quite handy ;-)

Do this for a set of focal lengths, say 18, 35, 50, 70, 140 mm and average the results. Unfortunately there is only one AF fine tune value for the whole lens, but something is better than nothing.

Good luck.
Thanks for your elaborate reply. I tried the above and got varied settings from +11 to -5 at different focal lengths. Finally have set it at +4 and will try it out in the field.
 
Some copies of the 18-140mm lens have been reported as requiring AF-FT. Mine needed +8 and proved to be a fine lens after this simple fix.

Don't get tricked into lengthy and hocus-pocus methods for AF-FT. Shoot a reliable target at 18mm f/5.6 while you vary the FT from +15 to -15 in 5 unit steps and pick the best result. Compare with Live View image.
Is there a step by step process mentioned somewhere ? Would like to try this out too.
 
Some copies of the 18-140mm lens have been reported as requiring AF-FT. Mine needed +8 and proved to be a fine lens after this simple fix.

Don't get tricked into lengthy and hocus-pocus methods for AF-FT. Shoot a reliable target at 18mm f/5.6 while you vary the FT from +15 to -15 in 5 unit steps and pick the best result. Compare with Live View image.
Is there a step by step process mentioned somewhere ? Would like to try this out too.
While I'm not sure your problem is AF-FT related (I'll let the experts here help you to determine that) here is a link to a simple method for fine tuning the AF for your lenses.

Dot-Tune
 
Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT
n/t
 
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Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
Very strange sample, looks like nothing is really in focus, focus seems to be out of frame towards camera or it's somewhere around the edge of sidewalk but with general softness.

Aberrations are also all over the place (something wrong with lens elements?)

You never wrote what was your focus target?
It must be something really close to camera for +/-5 fine tune (as you found out by dot-tune) to make any difference.

Can you upload some more samples?
 
Its obvious its not the combo fault. Migrating from the D700 (I havent actually got down to using the D810) there are a lot of changes in the UI of this model. Very confused. For eg programming the AE/AF-Lbutton to AE-Lock (Hold), in the D700 once a picture was taken the AE lock reset. Here the AE lock remains locked until the button is pressed again. So I messed up quite a few shots here. Also AF-S and AF-A and AF-S Auto was quite confusing couldnt figure it out A simple snapshot of this church seems to be OOF, So I guess there is a learning curve here too, In camera sharpening I have never used previously, but it seems here I need to. Shot about 150pictures and got only a handful useable. All comments highly welcome

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-zwRx3DT/0/O/i-zwRx3DT.jpg
Very strange sample, looks like nothing is really in focus, focus seems to be out of frame towards camera or it's somewhere around the edge of sidewalk but with general softness.

Aberrations are also all over the place (something wrong with lens elements?)

You never wrote what was your focus target?
It must be something really close to camera for +/-5 fine tune (as you found out by dot-tune) to make any difference.
Can you upload some more samples?
 
Thanks for your elaborate reply. I tried the above and got varied settings from +11 to -5 at different focal lengths. Finally have set it at +4 and will try it out in the field.
That's one heck of a fine-tuning range for that lens. One of the problems with the Dot Tune method (what you're doing if you followed those instructions) and most AFFT methods in general is that they can yield imprecise results with slower lenses like yours especially - because the fine-tuning response curve tends to be very broad and flat. So it's tough to isolate variability from the mean. To improve your results, you may have to resort to multiple test runs at each FL and average the results of those. Generally, with zoom lenses, you need to pick a FL where you want the lens to perform optimally...there isn't a single value that works for everything. With a telephoto, it's fairly obvious: the tele end. With a wide-range walkaround, not so much. Setting AFFT for the wide end introduces compromises at the tele end, and vice versa. Averaging everything can result in a lens that performs just meh everywhere.

About the UI differences. No question there, the D7100 is not only a simplified version of the pro UI you're used to, but the pro UI has changed since the D700 came out. Nikon's made some noticeable changes in the UI, mostly to the better. Try out a D810 and see. Those you can work through with some practice.
 
Thanks for your elaborate reply. I tried the above and got varied settings from +11 to -5 at different focal lengths. Finally have set it at +4 and will try it out in the field.
That's one heck of a fine-tuning range for that lens. One of the problems with the Dot Tune method (what you're doing if you followed those instructions) and most AFFT methods in general is that they can yield imprecise results with slower lenses like yours especially - because the fine-tuning response curve tends to be very broad and flat. So it's tough to isolate variability from the mean. To improve your results, you may have to resort to multiple test runs at each FL and average the results of those. Generally, with zoom lenses, you need to pick a FL where you want the lens to perform optimally...there isn't a single value that works for everything. With a telephoto, it's fairly obvious: the tele end. With a wide-range walkaround, not so much. Setting AFFT for the wide end introduces compromises at the tele end, and vice versa. Averaging everything can result in a lens that performs just meh everywhere.

About the UI differences. No question there, the D7100 is not only a simplified version of the pro UI you're used to, but the pro UI has changed since the D700 came out. Nikon's made some noticeable changes in the UI, mostly to the better. Try out a D810 and see. Those you can work through with some practice.
With all due respects, if one has to sit down and AF Fine tune , lenses straight out of the box, with so many chances of human errors, Wow, what happened, I am lost. I bought the D7100 and the 18-140 thinking I would be a happy shooter, get nice clean sharp images straight out of the box, but that seems to be a dream. See the range of the AF Fine Tune I am getting. Where do I go from here. Does the D750 have this issue as well ?
 
Is it possible you can take your body (or lens) into a camera store and try the same lens (or body) and see if the problem changes?
 
I'm not sure that we (collectively) have identified the problem yet. This early on I'd suggest resetting the camera to factory defaults, making sure the lens is set to 'A', VR to 'on', the camera mounted on a tripod, mode set to 'P' or even 'Auto no flash' and taking pictures of the same scene at the same time of day using the same point to focus on. I.e keep the variables to a minimum.

If the pictures are still not sharp then there is something wrong with either the camera or the lens. But it might be that some menu confusion has affected the original pictures. I thought it was strange that in the example picture the sharpest number plates on the cars were on the closer cars. I'd have thought that this was too extreme for AF fine tune but I don't have that option on my D5300 so I don't know. I do have the 18 - 140 lens though and I have been very impressed with its sharpness.
 
I'm not sure that we (collectively) have identified the problem yet. This early on I'd suggest resetting the camera to factory defaults, making sure the lens is set to 'A', VR to 'on', the camera mounted on a tripod, mode set to 'P' or even 'Auto no flash' and taking pictures of the same scene at the same time of day using the same point to focus on. I.e keep the variables to a minimum.

If the pictures are still not sharp then there is something wrong with either the camera or the lens. But it might be that some menu confusion has affected the original pictures. I thought it was strange that in the example picture the sharpest number plates on the cars were on the closer cars. I'd have thought that this was too extreme for AF fine tune but I don't have that option on my D5300 so I don't know. I do have the 18 - 140 lens though and I have been very impressed with its sharpness.
 
Thanks for your elaborate reply. I tried the above and got varied settings from +11 to -5 at different focal lengths. Finally have set it at +4 and will try it out in the field.
That's one heck of a fine-tuning range for that lens. One of the problems with the Dot Tune method (what you're doing if you followed those instructions) and most AFFT methods in general is that they can yield imprecise results with slower lenses like yours especially - because the fine-tuning response curve tends to be very broad and flat. So it's tough to isolate variability from the mean. To improve your results, you may have to resort to multiple test runs at each FL and average the results of those. Generally, with zoom lenses, you need to pick a FL where you want the lens to perform optimally...there isn't a single value that works for everything. With a telephoto, it's fairly obvious: the tele end. With a wide-range walkaround, not so much. Setting AFFT for the wide end introduces compromises at the tele end, and vice versa. Averaging everything can result in a lens that performs just meh everywhere.

About the UI differences. No question there, the D7100 is not only a simplified version of the pro UI you're used to, but the pro UI has changed since the D700 came out. Nikon's made some noticeable changes in the UI, mostly to the better. Try out a D810 and see. Those you can work through with some practice.
With all due respects, if one has to sit down and AF Fine tune , lenses straight out of the box, with so many chances of human errors, Wow, what happened, I am lost. I bought the D7100 and the 18-140 thinking I would be a happy shooter, get nice clean sharp images straight out of the box, but that seems to be a dream. See the range of the AF Fine Tune I am getting. Where do I go from here. Does the D750 have this issue as well ?
I'd start with your lens. Did you happen to read the DPR/DXO tests on the 18-140? It's yielding about 1700 LW/PH on the 7000, 2200 on the 7100 at 50mm:f/8 as one would expect. The 18-140 is a sharp lens, but it has a bit of distortion and CA that are intended to be compensated in-camera or in-post, but ACR doesn't read those Nikon settings off the NEF. You can invoke Adobe's idea of CA/distortion correction in post.

It is, sadly, a fact of life that the very high resolution cameras and consumer lenses these days are struggling to meet the extremely tight manufacturing limits that such high resolution imposes. No matter what you do, lenses and cameras are never calibrated to one another right out of the factory, only to a production nominal standard. If they were, say in a kit, then swapping lenses or bodies might make things much worse. However, I'd say that something's amiss in one of your items. This sort of performance I wouldn't expect.
 
As a D5300 user how do you react to all these comments on the need to fine adjust focusing on the D71/7200 cameras? I'm asking because I am seriously considering a D5500 as my next purchase because I really like the size and weight of the camera.
 
Some copies of the 18-140mm lens have been reported as requiring AF-FT. Mine needed +8 and proved to be a fine lens after this simple fix.

Don't get tricked into lengthy and hocus-pocus methods for AF-FT. Shoot a reliable target at 18mm f/5.6 while you vary the FT from +15 to -15 in 5 unit steps and pick the best result. Compare with Live View image.
Is there a step by step process mentioned somewhere ? Would like to try this out too.
I simply use an array of standard resolution charts (ISO 12233) and check the resolution results at each FT setting. The overall size of the array is about 135cm x 90cm.

Here is a series using the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX, first the full array, and then crops of the centre chart. It's clear that FT -5 is the best. The lens is giving a resolution reading here of 3300 LPPH, which is very good for any lens on a DX Nikon; my argument is that if I can achieve that, the AF must be just about right.

Another interesting point is that when the AF is spot on, there a definite Moire "sparkle" in certain parts of the chart due to the periodic etching of the OVF screen. Note also the coloured fringes near the resolution limits in some of the images; this is subject/sensor Moire.

Using the latter observations, I can confirm that a lens is in calibration even without taking a shot.



Full target at low resolution
Full target at low resolution



FT +5
FT +5



FT Zero
FT Zero



FT -5
FT -5



FT -10
FT -10
 

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