exif lens info problem with Pentax lenses

robgendreau · May 4, 2015

I'm using a K50 and two of the kit lenses, the 18-55 WR and the 50-200 WR (both L-AL versions since they're in the kit).

My problem is that Lightroom doesn't seem to be able to figure out that I'm using these lenses. That means the auto setting in Lens Corrections doesn't figure it out. But the lens profiles for all these lenses are listed there, so I can do it semi-manually (i.e. saving as a preset). And I can't filter or otherwise search and sort on the lens. I'm used to this sort of thing with a non-digital lens, or even a digital lens on an adapter/mounted as a manual on another camera. But this is frustrating.

My 35mm AL prime does get recognized. Hallelujah.

In messing around inside the DNG with exiftool it seems the difference is this: with the first two lenses the lens info is in the tags "lens ID" and "lens type." With the 35mm it's in both those place AND in "lens model." The latter seems key; my Oly lenses write there and they show up in Lr.

I realize some tags in exif can be derived from others, like 35mm equivalent. But the lenses all show up in the Pentax lens list for exiftool, but I'm beginning to think Lr doesn't use that. But it seems odd that they'd be in the profiles but not otherwise found.

So I dunno if this is something in the camera, the lens, Lr or what. But it's a pain. I haven't yet figured out a batch command in exiftool to copy from lens ID or type to lens model. But I shouldn't have to do that.

Anyone else have this problem? might help me diagnose what's going on.

Roland Karlsson · May 4, 2015

I think there is a switch to exiftool so it only shows non derived tags.

awaldram · May 4, 2015

I think the lens I'd probably isn't mapped being the all variants adobe don't have them logged.

In PS you can re-map the I'd to a registered lens if or can do just match the ID to the non al version for lens correction proposes

Sorryspell checked hacked that up all =AL I'd = ID

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SorenK · May 5, 2015

The LensTagger plugin may prove useful: http://www.essl.de/wp/software/lenstagger-lightroom-plugin/

I use it to correct info for my Sigma lenses and to add info for various manual lenses.

Søren

beholder3 · May 5, 2015

This happens to all newer and less common lenses where Adobe has only poor support.

For Pentax lenses you usually can solve some of these things by

a) selecting one photo with this lens and manually selecting the right profile and then

b) save new standard setting for lens profile in the topmost dropdown box for lens profiles. This usually helps the software recognize the lens in the future (not always but its worth a try)

Bob Corson · May 5, 2015

Perhaps I am missing something but Lightroom currently has 3 18-55 lenses:AL AL II and AL WR. I have the 18-55 AL WR and when using my K 30 Lightroom auto detects the lens no problem. IS there a newer lens model of this lens . . . if so I don,t see it on the Pentax Canada website.

awaldram · May 5, 2015

Bob Corson said:
Perhaps I am missing something but Lightroom currently has 3 18-55 lenses:AL AL II and AL WR. I have the 18-55 AL WR and when using my K 30 Lightroom auto detects the lens no problem. IS there a newer lens model of this lens . . . if so I don,t see it on the Pentax Canada website.

--
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There is this

http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-DAL-18-55mm-F3.5-5.6-Zoom-Lens.html

and this

http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensrev...6-WR-Weather-Resistant-Version-Zoom-Lens.html

That I know of but the OP says his is L-AL, He doesn't mention which version of Lightroom so only two assumptions can be made

1, His light-room needs updating to one that supports his lens.

2, Light-room doesn't support his variant of this lens and he will need to use Lens profile to fix.

Given the target market of a kit zoom and lightroom I'd suspect the 2nd to be true

Personally I'd cheat and rename/add this lens to one of the 18-55 WR existing profiles as its only matching exif to profile and all 18-55 are optically the same.

If cause the OP may be wrong about his lens it may be a da* 16-50 and a faulty camera

but you have to give credence somewhere and assume the user knows whats written on his lens .

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awaldram · May 5, 2015

ON the subject of matching I found this in my setting App data, NOt sure how I created it I seem to remember this is doable within the App (maybe not light room)

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 5.3-c007 1.136881, 2010/06/10-18:11:35 ">
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
<rdf

escription rdf:about=""
xmlns:crs="http://ns.adobe.com/camera-raw-settings/1.0/"
crs:What="LensProfileDefaultSettings"
crs:Version="6.7"
crs:LensProfileMatchKeyExifMake="RICOH IMAGING COMPANY, LTD."
crs:LensProfileMatchKeyExifModel="PENTAX K-3"
crs:LensProfileMatchKeyCameraModelName="PENTAX K-3"
crs:LensProfileMatchKeyLensInfo="180/10 2500/10 35/10 63/10"
crs:LensProfileMatchKeyLensID="7 238"
crs:LensProfileMatchKeyLensName="TAMRON AF 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 Di II LD Aspherical [IF] MACRO"
crs:LensProfileMatchKeyIsRaw="True"
crs:LensProfileMatchKeySensorFormatFactor="1.5"
crs:LensProfileName="Adobe (smc PENTAX-DA 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 ED AL [IF])"
crs:LensProfileFilename="_1011_518414a9df7a478197acfe75f843c903.lcp"
crs:LensProfileDigest="518414A9DF7A478197ACFE75F843C903"
crs:LensProfileDistortionScale="100"
crs:LensProfileChromaticAberrationScale="100"
crs:LensProfileVignettingScale="100"/>
</rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

It pretty obvious what it does for k3 RAW image maps the Tammy onto the Penatx da 18-250 profile (*.lcp)

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Bob Corson · May 5, 2015

awaldram said:
Bob Corson said:

Perhaps I am missing something but Lightroom currently has 3 18-55 lenses:AL AL II and AL WR. I have the 18-55 AL WR and when using my K 30 Lightroom auto detects the lens no problem. IS there a newer lens model of this lens . . . if so I don,t see it on the Pentax Canada website.

Click to expand...

robgendreau · May 5, 2015

To focus back on the issue, let me as OP point out that I am using current versions of Lr CC/6, exiftool, K-50 firmware, etc.

Allow me to use this lens as an example, the kit 50-200, which is a DA-L model, like the 18-55.

Here's what is in the file, extracted by exiftool:

awaldram said:
Lens Type : smc Pentax-DA L 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED WR

Lens ID : smc Pentax-DA L 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED WR

There is NO tag in the file for "Lens model."

A search of the ID no for Pentax lenses, as noted above, contains this entry:

awaldram said:
'7 201' = smc Pentax-DA L 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED WR

(BTW the 18-55 DA-L is PENTAX, and is 7 202.)

In Lightroom there is a profile (in the lens profiles folder in the app) called "PENTAX (smc PENTAX-DA 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED WR) - RAW." Note the absence of the "L." In the menu in the Develop module for Lens Corrections it's listed with this name, and if you select a photo with the above lens and hit "auto" it gives a message it can't find it. If you manually choose the non-L version, and save as default, it will remember that. And even apply it to other when you choose profiles.

BUT you still CANNOT filter or search on this lens. Lr stores the profile info you just submitted in a XMP area under "Lens Profile Filename" and "Lens Profile Name." Nothing gets written to lens model.

So let's compare with another lens, like the DA 35 F2.4, the "Plastic Fantastic." Although Pentaxers know that this is an L lens, or should be, here's how exiftool reads the info from that DNG:

awaldram said:
Lens Model : smc PENTAX-DA 35mm F2.4 AL

Note that it's in the Lens Model tag. And also in the Lens Type and Lens ID tags. That name also corresponds with the Adobe Lens Profile name. So it can automatically find the correction, and so it can automatically filter.

In the Adobe profile (XML) the name is in a few places, like "Lens" and "LensPrettyName." But it uses Lens ID 7-218 instead of 2-202 in the instance of the 18-55mm. I don't suppose I could just change the ID, names and filenames and get what I want for a profile, although I'll explore that. That's not the only issue, it's also where it's written

I've looked at other RAW files, and it seems that they too write to Lens Model.

So, it seems to me, the problem is two-fold: the camera isn't writing the lens info for the two DA-L kit lenses, 18-55mm and 50-200mm, to the Lens Model tag, and it should.

Second, Adobe doesn't have a DA-L named profile for these. Whether if problem one were solved, Lr would be smart enough to know to use the DA profile I dunno. One would have to write the DA-L name into the model field and see what happens. When I run LensTagger (basically a great plugin that just is a GUI for exiftool) it adds the lens name (which I just copied from the exiftool table above) to a tag named "Lens" and to Lens Model. Whether this mean Adobe finds the lens profile without the L, dunno, but it does make it filterable.

So it seems Pentax AND Adobe might need to fix this.

Bob Corson · May 5, 2015

robgendreau said:
Second, Adobe doesn't have a DA-L named profile for these. Whether if problem one were solved, Lr would be smart enough to know to use the DA profile I dunno. One would have to write the DA-L name into the model field and see what happens. When I run LensTagger (basically a great plugin that just is a GUI for exiftool) it adds the lens name (which I just copied from the exiftool table above) to a tag named "Lens" and to Lens Model. Whether this mean Adobe finds the lens profile without the L, dunno, but it does make it filterable.

So it seems Pentax AND Adobe might need to fix this.

Actually they do have profiles for both of those lenses . . . just not sorted into the section with the other 18-55 or 50-200 . . .they are further down the list.

robgendreau · May 5, 2015

Bob Corson said:
Bob Corson said:

Second, Adobe doesn't have a DA-L named profile for these. Whether if problem one were solved, Lr would be smart enough to know to use the DA profile I dunno. One would have to write the DA-L name into the model field and see what happens. When I run LensTagger (basically a great plugin that just is a GUI for exiftool) it adds the lens name (which I just copied from the exiftool table above) to a tag named "Lens" and to Lens Model. Whether this mean Adobe finds the lens profile without the L, dunno, but it does make it filterable.

So it seems Pentax AND Adobe might need to fix this.

Click to expand...

Actually they do have profiles for both of those lenses . . . just not sorted into the section with the other 18-55 or 50-200 . . .they are further down the list.

I think they are essentially the same lens optically, but they lack the "WR" in the name. I dunno if a DA-L 18-55 even exists that isn't a WR, but I sort of arbitrarily chose the WR figuring it might be different while the L might not be (as in actually making a difference in correction).

So we have L, and we have WR, but we need L WR. Sheesh. I sent a complaint to Ricoh about the lack of info in the proper lens model tag.

awaldram · May 5, 2015

Seems your on the right tracks.

What I can't understand is the camera performs the same action to write lens ID to exif irrelevant of lens fitted.

it something like (don't take this as gospel)

1 lens sends ID from it ROM

2 camera matches ID to database

3 camera write lens data to exif

Maybe both lens are not sending ID's or the camera does not have an entry for either.

You can easily check if the camera can match the lens as the CA correction and distortion will be greyed out in the body menu options.

so I'm pretty confused as I'd expect if the lens were failing you’d be requested to enter focal length

awaldram · May 5, 2015

robgendreau said:
So we have L, and we have WR, but we need L WR. Sheesh. I sent a complaint to Ricoh about the lack of info in the proper lens model tag.

I think you'll get no joy there, They'll take the attitude that its an Adobe feature and up-to adobe to make it work, That if you manage to get anyone smart enough to understand your issue.

Just thought does it work in silkypix (the app shipped with your camera ??)

Whilst I can understand their point it one of the reasons the k10/20 never got tethering in Adobe products.

maybe its small company syndrome but both Nikon and Canon released API's

robgendreau · May 5, 2015

awaldram said:
robgendreau said:

So we have L, and we have WR, but we need L WR. Sheesh. I sent a complaint to Ricoh about the lack of info in the proper lens model tag.

Click to expand...

I think you'll get no joy there, They'll take the attitude that its an Adobe feature and up-to adobe to make it work, That if you manage to get anyone smart enough to understand your issue.

Just thought does it work in silkypix (the app shipped with your camera ??)

Whilst I can understand their point it one of the reasons the k10/20 never got tethering in Adobe products.

maybe its small company syndrome but both Nikon and Canon released API's

Is SilkyPix what they gave me on that coaster thing? who the heck can use those things? I figure anything on that plastic isn't worth using.

For right now I don't care about other applications; fundamentally the camera isn't making a DNG properly. Tons of the other lens info is there, even the name is correct in certain tags. I dunno if the camera generates all of that (like lens name from ID) or if it's all in ROM in the lens. I would suspect the former, but for the fact it works OK with other lenses. I even get "K or M Lens" when I use a non-digital manual lens, which would tell me it's a camera problem not a lens problem.

awaldram · May 5, 2015

Adobe state the k50 is supported as of acr 8.2 and Lr 5.2 as these lens ship as part of the k50 I'd query Adobe support.

The reason I asked about silkypix is if that app recognizes the lens and can correct then the Camera and lens combinations are working as designed and you can rule out any FW or hardware faults causing faulty exif data.

robgendreau · May 5, 2015

Aha! Did some more testing.

Turns out the the Lens Model isn't necessary. Checking exif before I import into Lr no lens model tag is present in any of my lenses, DA-L, DA or manual.

But Lr, once imported, can see the DA and manual for purposes of filtering and correctly knows the lenses, a 35mm AL and manual 100mm macro. But not the DA-L. Which would correspond to the profiles.

But if I manually save metadata or otherwise write it to the DNGs at some point AFTER import into Lr, for the correctly ID'd lenses that info gets propagated to the lens model tag, since what I expect happens is Lr rewrites the DNG abode-style.

So Ricoh is exonerated. It doesn't write to lens model, and Lr is the floater in the bowl.

EDIT: didn't bother with Silky, but tried DxO Optics Pro 10. It found the 35mm AL, and the kit lens as well, and used a DA WR profile automatically (no L specific one was listed). It couldn't find anything for the manual lens of course.

Bob Corson · May 5, 2015

robgendreau said:
Bob Corson said:

robgendreau said:

Second, Adobe doesn't have a DA-L named profile for these. Whether if problem one were solved, Lr would be smart enough to know to use the DA profile I dunno. One would have to write the DA-L name into the model field and see what happens. When I run LensTagger (basically a great plugin that just is a GUI for exiftool) it adds the lens name (which I just copied from the exiftool table above) to a tag named "Lens" and to Lens Model. Whether this mean Adobe finds the lens profile without the L, dunno, but it does make it filterable.

So it seems Pentax AND Adobe might need to fix this.

Click to expand...

Actually they do have profiles for both of those lenses . . . just not sorted into the section with the other 18-55 or 50-200 . . .they are further down the list.

Click to expand...

I think they are essentially the same lens optically, but they lack the "WR" in the name. I dunno if a DA-L 18-55 even exists that isn't a WR, but I sort of arbitrarily chose the WR figuring it might be different while the L might not be (as in actually making a difference in correction).

So we have L, and we have WR, but we need L WR. Sheesh. I sent a complaint to Ricoh about the lack of info in the proper lens model tag.

It is my understanding too that they are virtually identical optically, which should make it dead nuts easy to have both profiles. perhaps a note to Adobe support requesting the added profile. There certainly is one DA L WR and one non WR shown on Pentax Forum's lens database.

Good luck.

boardhead62 · May 5, 2015

robgendreau said:
I haven't yet figured out a batch command in exiftool to copy from lens ID or type to lens model.

I haven't read through the rest of the responses, but here is that command:

exiftool "-lensmodel<lensid" DIR

(where DIR is the name of a directory containing the images)

robgendreau said:
But I shouldn't have to do that.

True

- Phil

robgendreau · May 5, 2015

boardhead62 said:
robgendreau said:

I haven't yet figured out a batch command in exiftool to copy from lens ID or type to lens model.

Click to expand...

I haven't read through the rest of the responses, but here is that command:

exiftool "-lensmodel

(where DIR is the name of a directory containing the images)

boardhead62 said:

But I shouldn't have to do that.

Click to expand...

True

- Phil

I suppose I could use exiftool, but it should be a copy from Lens ID or Lens Type to Lens Model; that would cover the filter issue.

I notified Adobe about the profile problem (DxO doesn't have the DA-L 50-200mm WR, although it has the DA and the DA...WR; it applies the DA 18-55...WR to the DA-L 18-55 WR though, which seems sorta inconsistent). Adobe apparently lacks the HD 55-300 WR too. They say they'll fix in next update.

Meanwhile, there is no way in Lr to identify which lens was used. So if I shoot with the three lenses I have (18-55, 50--200, and 55-300) I can't tell them apart, so I can't use the manual/default method to use Adobe's lens corrections. DxO only has two of them. LensTagger can be used to write lens model, but that requires me to know WHICH lens is in which photo, and I don't know that.

So writing from one tag to another with exiftool might be the best way pre-import. I just haven't figured out the commands yet (forgot to use overwrite and that was a mess first couple of times).

exif lens info problem with Pentax lenses

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