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Looking for info on newer Pentax bodies re AF

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Neil-H

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I briefly owned a K5IIs so im familiar with a lot of things Pentax but that was a while ago and before I started paying more attention to the technical aspects of AF. I currently own Canon and Nikon and have a healthy understanding of their apsc AF capability. I however miss my Pentax (it took a spill onto a hardwood floor) and the price of the K3 is looking really good.

But, I have kids and they move around a lot which is one reason I was drawn to Canon most recently; I enjoy the complexity of it's AF system (70D). What im wondering is for the k3, how complex is the system? I know it's got 25/27 cross types, but what about the menu options? Can you adjust similar settings that Canikon offer?

An example is on my 70D I can set the "reflex speed" so to speak, how quickly it will change it's speed/direction of tracking, which is good if you have a very hectic movement pattern like a butterfly vs a steady motion of a vehicle. Another setting is how long it will stay on a target without locking onto something that passes in front.

Im also wondering what kind of AF point patterns it has. Is it single point and full 27 only? Are there any cluster options? Anybody with first hand experience would be of help. I honestly don't even remember anything about my K5IIs AF, I always used center point only back then too. Since I have become much more interested in complexity. Any info is appreciated.
 
Neil-H said:
I briefly owned a K5IIs so im familiar with a lot of things Pentax but that was a while ago and before I started paying more attention to the technical aspects of AF. I currently own Canon and Nikon and have a healthy understanding of their apsc AF capability. I however miss my Pentax (it took a spill onto a hardwood floor) and the price of the K3 is looking really good.

But, I have kids and they move around a lot which is one reason I was drawn to Canon most recently; I enjoy the complexity of it's AF system (70D). What im wondering is for the k3, how complex is the system? I know it's got 25/27 cross types, but what about the menu options? Can you adjust similar settings that Canikon offer?

An example is on my 70D I can set the "reflex speed" so to speak, how quickly it will change it's speed/direction of tracking, which is good if you have a very hectic movement pattern like a butterfly vs a steady motion of a vehicle. Another setting is how long it will stay on a target without locking onto something that passes in front.
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Yes you can set the reflex speed, its the continuous AF hold time, 4 settings, off, low medium and high... however its not as extensive as the Canon offerings.
Neil-H said:
Im also wondering what kind of AF point patterns it has. Is it single point and full 27 only? Are there any cluster options? Anybody with first hand experience would be of help. I honestly don't even remember anything about my K5IIs AF, I always used center point only back then too. Since I have become much more interested in complexity. Any info is appreciated.
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There are several options and it can get a little confusing, i would expect this to have been covered in the dpreview review of the K-3

I'd still give a clear win to Canon's tracking abilities and Nikon is probably a close second however we have yet to see what the supposed improvements are like in the K-3II they speak of newer better faster tracking algorithms

One thing to note with the K-3, turn SR off if you're doing any kind of panning or subject following, the K-3's implementation of the SR system can and will ruin photos even at the top shutter speed if you are panning with the subject... the K-3II is supposed to address this with a better SR system that now includes pan detection.
 
MightyMike said:
Neil-H said:
I briefly owned a K5IIs so im familiar with a lot of things Pentax but that was a while ago and before I started paying more attention to the technical aspects of AF. I currently own Canon and Nikon and have a healthy understanding of their apsc AF capability. I however miss my Pentax (it took a spill onto a hardwood floor) and the price of the K3 is looking really good.

But, I have kids and they move around a lot which is one reason I was drawn to Canon most recently; I enjoy the complexity of it's AF system (70D). What im wondering is for the k3, how complex is the system? I know it's got 25/27 cross types, but what about the menu options? Can you adjust similar settings that Canikon offer?

An example is on my 70D I can set the "reflex speed" so to speak, how quickly it will change it's speed/direction of tracking, which is good if you have a very hectic movement pattern like a butterfly vs a steady motion of a vehicle. Another setting is how long it will stay on a target without locking onto something that passes in front.
Click to expand...
Yes you can set the reflex speed, its the continuous AF hold time, 4 settings, off, low medium and high... however its not as extensive as the Canon offerings.
Click to expand...
Whilst in general your correct its worth to ask which Canon?

Last time I bothered to check only the 5d and better and in Nikon the FF bodies had as complete or better AF configuration options.
MightyMike said:
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Mike from Canada
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Hmm, something to think on. Im also wondering if the new K3II has any new added AF sophistication. Personally while it's a bit spendier than I would like for a jump back into Pentax (I would have to buy lenses too), the new K3II has some features I would really really enjoy. The built in astro tracer would be real fun to use, and the pixel shift is right up my alley. While in the past I have touted Canikon for their lenses, Pentax has essentially what I would "need", which is all that really matters.

The 70mm limited + 40mm limited would be half of my potential collection. Throw in the new Sigma 18-35 and Tamron 70-200 and im set. If FF turns out to be something I would want I would have to cross that bridge at the time.
 
Neil-H said:
Hmm, something to think on. Im also wondering if the new K3II has any new added AF sophistication.
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I don't think it has any added option but does have a number of refinments though some are not clear if they'll only be seen with ne D-FA lens

1 Pan detect - sports mode SR (no more having to switch off SR) , SR maintained on stationary axis during pan

2 improved AF-c logarithms faster (unclear if this is just for new lens) stops double take at lock.
Neil-H said:
Personally while it's a bit spendier than I would like for a jump back into Pentax (I would have to buy lenses too), the new K3II has some features I would really really enjoy. The built in astro tracer would be real fun to use, and the pixel shift is right up my alley. While in the past I have touted Canikon for their lenses, Pentax has essentially what I would "need", which is all that really matters.
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The new FF might be a better option as it will have all the k3ii advances but in a body designed for them (possibly san GPS but + WiFi)

To me the k3ii is a technology demo release your seeing some of what the FF will deliver, Mind you given the price/performance it can tell a compelling story in it's own right.
Neil-H said:
The 70mm limited + 40mm limited would be half of my potential collection. Throw in the new Sigma 18-35 and Tamron 70-200 and im set. If FF turns out to be something I would want I would have to cross that bridge at the time.
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The lens you mention I don't think will see any performance increase on the k3ii over the k5ii or k3 as they are all the limiting factor themselves not the body.

None are 'sports' related performance lens the Tamron being almost unique in the 70-200 range as it seems 'cost cutting' to hit the price point were mainly AF related and as such it very slow compared to competition but optically slightly superior.

In PKA the Sigma OS HSM is considerably faster for AF-c and I expect the new Pentax D-fa to be faster still.

If AF-c is important to you then the Pentax 18-135 DC , da*300 and possibly the new 16-85 should be on your short list.

On the cheap rear focusing screw lens are also quick but suffer from latensy when used for tracking.

Here is an example of how important the lens is Vs body the 28-70 Pentax Vs Sigma 18-250 HSM


 
Neil-H said:
Im also wondering what kind of AF point patterns it has. Is it single point and full 27 only? Are there any cluster options? Anybody with first hand experience would be of help. I honestly don't even remember anything about my K5IIs AF, I always used center point only back then too. Since I have become much more interested in complexity. Any info is appreciated.
Click to expand...
The AF-C point options on the K-3 are Spot, Auto 9-point, Auto 27-point, Expandable AF 9-point, Expandable AF 25-point, Expandable AF 27-point. 25 points are cross-type, two are horizontal only. The center three points are f2.8 sensitive.

In addition to the AF Hold settings others have mentioned, you can choose Shutter or Focus Priority for the first shot in a burst and for continuous shooting.

I believe the K-3 II has upgraded AF for a subject directly coming toward the camera.

--
Dan
 
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audiobomber said:
Neil-H said:
Im also wondering what kind of AF point patterns it has. Is it single point and full 27 only? Are there any cluster options? Anybody with first hand experience would be of help. I honestly don't even remember anything about my K5IIs AF, I always used center point only back then too. Since I have become much more interested in complexity. Any info is appreciated.
Click to expand...
The AF-C point options on the K-3 are Spot, Auto 9-point, Auto 27-point, Expandable AF 9-point, Expandable AF 25-point, Expandable AF 27-point. 25 points are cross-type, two are horizontal only. The center three points are f2.8 sensitive.

In addition to the AF Hold settings others have mentioned, you can choose Shutter or Focus Priority for the first shot in a burst and for continuous shooting.

I believe the K-3 II has upgraded AF for a subject directly coming toward the camera.
Click to expand...
 
Neil-H said:
Another question if I may. My D7k has a 39pt auto mode where whatever in the overall array is the closest object, it will lock to that. My 70D has the same with it's 9pt cluster, it will always lock to whatever is the closest object. Im assuming the Pentax bodies have the same? To me it is these kinds of details that are most important, how the AF actually "behaves".
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All cameras I know that usilise Phase Detect AF will use fuzzy logic that in full AF auto use the sensor with the greatest phase variance + closest logic.

So in general the will favour closer subject but if you had a grey object in front of a zebra crossing the camera would lock onto the zebra crossing.

in Live view AF behaves the same but lock onto contrast to phase variances.

This is true for Canon, Nikon et all though the weighting factors Phase strength to subject distance may vary slightly.

I doubt you'd notice any difference in the behaviour of a Pentax as compared to the 70D or D7k except your 70d is more likely to lock onto the wrong object due to less granular sensors.
 
Neil-H said:
audiobomber said:
Neil-H said:
Im also wondering what kind of AF point patterns it has. Is it single point and full 27 only? Are there any cluster options? Anybody with first hand experience would be of help. I honestly don't even remember anything about my K5IIs AF, I always used center point only back then too. Since I have become much more interested in complexity. Any info is appreciated.
Click to expand...
The AF-C point options on the K-3 are Spot, Auto 9-point, Auto 27-point, Expandable AF 9-point, Expandable AF 25-point, Expandable AF 27-point. 25 points are cross-type, two are horizontal only. The center three points are f2.8 sensitive.

In addition to the AF Hold settings others have mentioned, you can choose Shutter or Focus Priority for the first shot in a burst and for continuous shooting.

I believe the K-3 II has upgraded AF for a subject directly coming toward the camera.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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